Mini Normal 2038: Cool Art I've Found Mafia [Game Over]

[ofrhz]

Throw out a quick readslist nic

VOTE: BrightEyedFish

You wanted a quick list. Weird request in general but given the flip and how he died, it definitely seems you knew one was coming.

Quick readlist as opposed to a wallpost with detailed explanations

I saw that BEF was at L-1 and did think the day was winding down considering how many people were scumreading BEF, I didn't think there would be a qhammer

pedit: that was me freaking out

[ofrhz]

Throw out a quick readslist nic

VOTE: BrightEyedFish

You wanted a quick list. Weird request in general but given the flip and how he died, it definitely seems you knew one was coming.

meh, i did think NC was likely to be the nk and wanted to get his final thoughts in case that was the case

[Light Ethos]

@Sephiroth: Care to explain why my response is the worst to the BEF wagon?

Because you hard push AP's dying wagon while BEFs wagon is taking off, and talk about AP as if he is a done deal for day 1 in that post. I just don't think the argument you put forth, that even if AP is town its a mathematically sound lynch, should outweigh a real scum read.

Which leads me to the fact that you mention that BEF is a good lynch candidate and that you suspect him in that post. Twice you need to point out that you support the idea of that wagon but choose not to join it.

It seems to me that town!LE, who already suspects BEF, would be happy to join a new, well reasoned wagon on BEF's slot to learn more about it.

It seems to me that scum that sees a wagon on their partner might make a post like you did and double down on a previous wagon, especially if you believe its likely that AP would shoot town. Its something about how adamant you are that AP is THE lynch for the day and that's that. Just smells off to me.

This is a reasonable response to me. I was still scum reading AP, and I was fine with either AP or BEF. I thought AP was the better choice due to the possibility of some upside if it ended up being a mislynch. If I end up being a mislynch today or later on because of that choice, I'll still stand by that choice.

[ofrhz]

Was just reminded ofhz knew the hammer was coming. Would lynch him also

actually thinking about this some more, this doesn't make sense.

if I were scum, why would i ask for a readslist and have my partner hammer? the whole point of a self-hammer would be to deny town information and the opportunity to get direction from likely nks. me asking for final thoughts would literally destroy the point of having a qhammer

[Sephiroth]

Light Ethos, where is this idea that TicTac hard defended BEF coming from? That was part of your reason for putting the -2 down.

[Doughboy]

Was just reminded ofhz knew the hammer was coming. Would lynch him also

actually thinking about this some more, this doesn't make sense.

if I were scum, why would i ask for a readslist and have my partner hammer? the whole point of a self-hammer would be to deny town information and the opportunity to get direction from likely nks. me asking for final thoughts would literally destroy the point of having a qhammer

To make it look believable?

[Sephiroth]

Throw out a quick readslist nic

VOTE: BrightEyedFish

You wanted a quick list. Weird request in general but given the flip and how he died, it definitely seems you knew one was coming.

meh, i did think NC was likely to be the nk and wanted to get his final thoughts in case that was the case

Couldn't you have just unvoted to make sure you got them?

[SuperfluousNinja]

I don't really understand

Light Ethos, where is this idea that TicTac hard defended BEF coming from? That was part of your reason for putting the -2 down.

In the context of

Can you speak more about the difference between Bright-Eyed Fish and RCEnigma from your perspective?

Bright has done 1 thing. Defending AP. There's no scum motivation in preventing a mislynch (and no pocketing is not one. site-meta response to defending is known to all) Defending does not actually need justification beyond 'i disagree with this logic' saying someone cares about truth means nothing if they are not pointing out logic they consider false. 86 by Bright changed how I thought about APs weird style of defense. 65 was sync, and both 65 and 75 attempts to encourage sensible play. I don't agree with the soul-read, but 189 started that wagon.
In short Bright is using analysis to

change the course of the game.

So......would Tictac defend his teammate this much? This analysis was obviously completely off, but was it a bad town analysis or a scum analysis?

I think its feasible since its early game, there's no reason not to throw out a defense like this. Especially when he was specifically prompted to talk about why he was suspecting RC and not BEF. I think the chainsaw against Nic is the most damning thing in my mind.

[Sephiroth]

Ninja, I was asking LE for a reason...

[SuperfluousNinja]

wow such hard work
i will manage
invisbibiltiy - being too epic
AP - being scum
tictac - being scum but less scummy than AP
light ethos - being scummy but partly in conjunction with tictac
ninja - being scummy but have a conflicted read
RCE - BoP
profii - idk how to read
ofrhz - if town could be pretty useful
sash - order of towniness
doughboy - order of towniness
seph - order of towniness

Damn Seph actually managed to be more towny than the actual confirmed town! lolol

Plenty of safety valves in here. If you wanted to concede as few town players as you possibly could as scum, that's basically what this feels like.

I do see the case against Profii and I'm glad he's at least null here. But I don't understand the basis for your case against Light Ethos or RCEnigma...these feel like reads that are piggybacking off others. I'll review your ISO but I don't recall you ever pressuring either of them about , you know, anything. And AP as scum is just old hat at this point.

[SuperfluousNinja]

Ninja, I was asking LE for a reason...

So your scum test is whether he's reading the thread? That seems like an NAI sort of thing.

[ofrhz]

Was just reminded ofhz knew the hammer was coming. Would lynch him also

actually thinking about this some more, this doesn't make sense.

if I were scum, why would i ask for a readslist and have my partner hammer? the whole point of a self-hammer would be to deny town information and the opportunity to get direction from likely nks. me asking for final thoughts would literally destroy the point of having a qhammer

To make it look believable?

so basically you're saying that i asked my scum partner to hammer to shut down discussion, but at the same time, risked of having nc (who posted like 20 mins ago in 1227 and was opssibly still watching hte thread) come back and give his reads just for some towncred? like, if i had actually coordinated this with bef, why couldnt i have done it... better to not reflect badly on me like this

pedit: @seph i didn't unvote because i wasn't expecting a quickhammer -___- i thought bef was going to come back and explain himself, i didn't expect him to self-vote

[Sephiroth]

Ninja, I was asking LE for a reason...

So your scum test is whether he's reading the thread? That seems like an NAI sort of thing.

His post in which he places the -2 feels rushed and too easy to join in on a near lynching wagon, at least to me. I would've benefited from him explaining in his own words what he was basing his early read off of. Not everything is black and white. Its not a 'scum test', its probing the veracity of his narrative.

[profii]

@AP - yeah reaction test

Towards the end of the day you posted that you were going to asses the slip but then rushed into dealing with it, so I put the vote on BEF basically to see if you would hammer it - I could tell Doughboy knew _something_ but because he didn’t come out and say neighbours I thought it was some bizarre scum defense - so even though I thought you were town I wondered if it was BEF/Dough/you all trying to slip out a lynch

Then he self hammered

I did think you were town now you are lock town for me

[SuperfluousNinja]

I WANT TO HAVE A READ ON LIGHT ETHOS HM

I don't understand why you express a sentiment like this and then not do anything about it? You didn't even try to talk to Light Ethos at all. Why not? Is it not important to you to sort out this read?

[Sephiroth]

Was just reminded ofhz knew the hammer was coming. Would lynch him also

actually thinking about this some more, this doesn't make sense.

if I were scum, why would i ask for a readslist and have my partner hammer? the whole point of a self-hammer would be to deny town information and the opportunity to get direction from likely nks. me asking for final thoughts would literally destroy the point of having a qhammer

To make it look believable?

so basically you're saying that i asked my scum partner to hammer to shut down discussion, but at the same time, risked of having nc (who posted like 20 mins ago in 1227 and was opssibly still watching hte thread) come back and give his reads just for some towncred? like, if i had actually coordinated this with bef, why couldnt i have done it... better to not reflect badly on me like this

pedit: @seph i didn't unvote because i wasn't expecting a quickhammer -___- i thought bef was going to come back and explain himself, i didn't expect him to self-vote

Yeah gonna be honest I don't see any merit in this 'knew the hammer was coming' line of argument.

[SuperfluousNinja]

lol that scumvisibility lynched the guy who could have gotten me lynched and left alive the guy that's going to get him lynched

[SuperfluousNinja]

lol that scumvisibility

killed

the guy who could have gotten me lynched and left alive the guy that's going to get him lynched

EBWOP

[ofrhz]

@AP - yeah reaction test

Towards the end of the day you posted that you were going to asses the slip but then rushed into dealing with it, so

I put the vote on BEF basically to see if you would hammer it

- I could tell Doughboy knew _something_ but because he didn’t come out and say neighbours I thought it was some bizarre scum defense - so even though I thought you were town I wondered if it was BEF/Dough/you all trying to slip out a lynch

Then he self hammered

I did think you were town now you are lock town for me

actually this is kinda towny

[profii]

initial thought from EOD1 is that profii is more likely to be scum here. the L-1 does feel coordinated with BEF, because the timing of his L-1 doesn't make sense with this post:

Sash finds himself on loads of the major wagons but is hiding behind "well I'm a noob"

so let's push him into the spot light

the current point of debate is post 1176 where BEF referenced "the main thread" and used the expression "oh and btw"

some players are saying this is some kind of slip from a private thread

some players are defending what is probably a very busy IRL situation with a pregnant other half


So Sash, which side of that fence do you sit on right now?

Here, profii asks for Sasha's opinion of BEF. Between here and his L-1 vote in 1234, Sasha doesn't even post once, so this post feels more like contributing for the sake of contributing, since it doesn't seem like he wasn't very concerned with getting a response from sasha

Now we have sorted the particulars of Doughboy familiarising himself with neighbour mechanics....

VOTE: BEF


I’m not a believer

My gut tells me BEFs ISO is the sort of ISO I would look at if I was scum and think I could conceivably get people to follow me on to

Here profli is basically saying bef is an easy mislynch target. This definitely implies bef is town.

Not even hearing what bef has to say and putting him at l-1 is extremely opportunistic and I don’t care if town has to lynch bef first, even me 2nd. Town better lynch profli at some point.

You had plenty of chance to just claim mason.

You not coming forward with that was partly why I voted rather than just waiting to lol hammer

I’m p sure the next scum is obvious (not you either) so we should wake up with a guilty

profii, what does the bolded in either of these two posts have anything to do with you voting right away rather than later?

VOTE: profii

(Phone posting so multi posts sorry)

My gut feeling yesterday was we weren’t catching scum so when I said the BEF lynched seemed like scum pushing an easy mislynch I thought it just wouldn’t kinda be that easy given all the messing about with Soul/AP

But when we came down to “in the main thread” thing it was obvious Doughboy knew something and was likely
They were neighbours - despite this, he didn’t claim it, so either he wasn’t sure BEF was town, or he wasn’t sure claimingwas a good move - if he had claimed i defo would have said “that explains main thread let’s give it benefit of the doubt”

But you will also see I specifically asked what APs thinking was because I wondered if he wound likely hammer or not given he didn’t hammer soul

So that was my vibe at the time, I wasn’t really sure it would flip red tbh

[Light Ethos]

Ninja, I was asking LE for a reason...

Ninja did derail that question you asked, but the portion of 426 that he posted is where my claim that tictac hard defended BEF came from.

[profii]

Throw out a quick readslist nic

VOTE: BrightEyedFish

You wanted a quick list. Weird request in general but given the flip and how he died, it definitely seems you knew one was coming.

meh, i did think NC was likely to be the nk and wanted to get his final thoughts in case that was the case

I think I know why you would think this but the thought only occurred to me when I tried to think about why you would say this, so given it didn’t come naturally to me.... why exactly did you think NC nk?

[Light Ethos]

Its not a 'scum test', its probing the veracity of his narrative.

What narrative, and what about it isn't believable?

[Sephiroth]

Here is how I see things right now.

Town Pile:

DoughBoy
Ofrhz
Sashaddin
Profii

Unsure Pile

RCEnigma
AP (with a side of scum lean)
SuperfluousNinja (with a side of scum lean)

Scum Read Pile

tictac
Light Ethos
Invisibility

I feel confident in at least one scum in that group. My gut is that tictac and LE cannot both be scum, but I need to examine this theory more.

Light Ethos being in my scum pool and being eager to join the tictac wagon gives me pause.

[Sephiroth]

Its not a 'scum test', its probing the veracity of his narrative.

What narrative, and what about it isn't believable?

Narrative being your given reason for voting tictac to L-2. I didn't say it wasn't believable, I said I was probing its veracity. ie testing how well your story holds up to scrutiny.