Mini Normal 2038: Cool Art I've Found Mafia [Game Over]

[SuperfluousNinja]

Here is how I see things right now.

Town Pile:

DoughBoy
Ofrhz
Sashaddin
Profii

Unsure Pile

RCEnigma
AP (with a side of scum lean)
SuperfluousNinja (with a side of scum lean)

Scum Read Pile

tictac
Light Ethos
Invisibility

I feel confident in at least one scum in that group.

Well yeah. When you name 3 scum and there's only 2, and you toss in 2 more scum-lites, that's an incredibly safe bet............

[Sephiroth]

Speaking of safe, when was the last time you posted a full reads list, ninja?

[Sephiroth]

Sure is easy to say that when you haven't taken a serious stance on almost anyone since before the start of D2.

[SuperfluousNinja]

Sure is easy to say that when you haven't taken a serious stance on almost anyone since before the start of D2.

Really? You don't think my stances against Tictac or Invisibility are serious at all then?

[Sephiroth]

They sure are. That leaves 9 players. Get going.

[SuperfluousNinja]

You don't think I'm still serious about AP being a legit town vengeful?

You don't think I was serious when I said I liked Nic Cage and moved him out of my scum pile?

You don't think me pushing for the BEF lynch was me being serious?

[Sephiroth]

Oh and try not to be too 'safe' I've heard thats a scum tell.

[SuperfluousNinja]

They sure are. That leaves 9 players. Get going.

Now you're changing the goalposts. You very clearly said SERIOUS reads. That means something definitive. Are you suddenly expecting me to have SERIOUS reads on ALL of the players?

[SuperfluousNinja]

Oh and try not to be too 'safe' I've heard thats a scum tell.

Um okay

[Sephiroth]

I expect you to be able to categorize/rank them. I never said serious reads, you literally just made that up. I said serious stance. Take a stance on the remaining 9 players either by ranking or categorizing or talking about them. It should not be difficult.

If you're going to criticize every read list that gets posted (mine and inisibilitys so far) then you should be able to write up a really nice one right?

[SuperfluousNinja]

I expect you to be able to categorize/rank them.

I never said serious reads

, you literally just made that up. I said serious stance. Take a stance on the remaining 9 players either by ranking or categorizing or talking about them. It should not be difficult.

Explain to me the difference between a read and a stance.

[Sephiroth]

What I want is for you to say something definitive and on the record about the 9 slots that you haven't spoken about recently. I mean serious stance as in I want you to take a stance either town, scum, lean one way or another, null, or no read yet. I don't feel that you've posted any full list of stances on players. When you say serious reads, you're saying I'm moving the goal posts by implying that serious reads is implying 'detailed' reads. But a serious stance is in no way the same thing as a serious read. I'm not asking you to post an ISO of every single player. I'm asking you to really quick categorize or rank, or 1 sentence whatever. Even if that thing is 'I don't have a read on them'. That's what I mean by stance. Is that clear?

[Sephiroth]

As in, do something similar to what I did that you felt was so safe. I would love to see what you come up with.

[SuperfluousNinja]

What I want is for you to say something definitive and on the record about the 9 slots that you haven't spoken about recently. I mean serious stance as in I want you to take a stance either town, scum, lean one way or another, null, or no read yet. I don't feel that you've posted any full list of stances on players. When you say serious reads, you're saying I'm moving the goal posts by implying that serious reads is implying 'detailed' reads. But a serious stance is in no way the same thing as a serious read. I'm not asking you to post an ISO of every single player. I'm asking you to really quick categorize or rank, or 1 sentence whatever. Even if that thing is 'I don't have a read on them'. That's what I mean by stance. Is that clear?

This feels icky. I'm not going to force out a whole bunch of stances without any factual information to back them up.

Is this what you were testing? If I'd actually do that? Cuz no. I don't care what word you want to use to describe it; I'm not going to toss out a bunch of stances that I'd prefer to research more thoroughly. It's almost 11 PM here and I'm tired and I don't feel like giving you poorly researched fodder for you to pick apart. I've stated earlier in the game that I am not a fan of shitty reads lists without reasoning to back them up, so I'm not going to participate in whatever you're trying to do to me right now.

You'll have my actually researched reads list tomorrow.

[Sephiroth]

I never said you needed to do it immediately? Why are you this offended/indignant at being asked to give reads yet so quick to criticize when other people give theirs?

[SuperfluousNinja]

I'm asking you to

really quick

categorize or rank, or 1 sentence whatever. Even if that thing is 'I don't have a read on them'. That's what I mean by stance. Is that clear?

I never said you needed to do it immediately

? Why are you this offended/indignant at being asked to give reads yet so quick to criticize when other people give theirs?

What, in your mind, is the gap in time between "really quick" and "immediately"?

[Skygazer]

VC 2.2

tictac (3): SuperfluousNinja, Sashaddin, Light Ethos
profii (2): Doughboy, ofrhz
AP (1): invisibility

Not Voting (5): profii, RCEnigma, AP, Sephiroth, tictac

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. Day 2 will end in (expired on 2018-10-30 20:00:00).

[SuperfluousNinja]

Why do you think I'm offended? I'm perfectly calm right now. Why would I even be offended lol

Of course I'm going to criticize quick stances because I think a poorly researched reads list is too easy. I've never liked them and never will. That's not some emotional response; that's not some indignation of any kind; that's just how I approach the game.

[Sephiroth]

I was trying to say they didn't need to be detailed or in depth, just kind of your gut thoughts. I didn't realize you don't have those and need to research to figure it out. I'm sorry you took that to mean do this immediately. Is english your second language?

[SuperfluousNinja]

I think a very reasonable interpretation of post 1386 is that you wanted me to post that list RIGHT NOW, on the spot. I don't think that's at all an unreasonable interpretation of what you said.

I don't want to commit to any stances right now without more research. I don't like doing it and I avoid it whenever possible. I don't like when others do it either.

This isn't an emotional response. I'm not trying to start shit. I'm simply telling you that you'll have to wait until tomorrow for my actual reads. This isn't emotion. This is as straightforward, logical, factual and emotion-free as I can be. You'll have it tomorrow. Okay?

Talk to you tomorrow.

[Sephiroth]

I guess I just don't understand how you have literally no opinion without researching. If you haven't done any research that research at all yet how are you scumhunting? Like, didn't you also say this to invisibility earlier? Is this not a bit hypocritical that you haven't made any effort at figuring out who is in your town pile?

As I stated in my case against you near the end of Day 1, I could only discern your reads on half of the players in this game. I have no clue how you feel about the other half. IMO it is equally as important to evaluate who you think is town as it is to figure out who is scum. Scum wouldn't see the value in figuring out who is in the town pile and isn't really worth looking into anymore.

[Sephiroth]

Half sure is a lot better than two by my count.

[SuperfluousNinja]

Huh. Legit thought you were testing me to see if I'd just follow your orders like scum would in some kind of pavlov dog effect. But you're actually serious.

Interestingly the only thing I took umbrage with that spurned this whole thing from you was just your statement that you feel confident that at least one of your scum reads is scum, and that's mostly just a silly thing to say. If you didn't have confidence that your scum read was actually scum, they wouldn't be a scum read, ya knohhh? But then that turned into you getting quite serious about me posting my reads, so....

Scum:
Invisibility - already made my case
Tictac - already made my case

Null:
Profii - I thought it was a little weird how he slid around on his AP read initially, and his role in the build-up to the lynch was a bit odd. But still his posts are well-thought-out and helpful, especially his posts today
Sephiroth - I appreciate you doing what you can to help town, but you are pushing all of the wrong angles here. NC was the wrong angle. AP was the wrong angle. LE is the wrong angle. I am for sure the wrong angle. You never should have said "I'm 11-2 as scum on my alt and undefeated as scum on this one" because I'm not going to trust you for the rest of the game now.

Town:
RCEnigma - He has responded well to all the pressure on him and is often asking people to clarify their case against him. He's being very objective and open-minded
AP - I don't see any reason not to believe his claim as vengeful. It fits with all of the actions he's taken throughout the game
Sashaddin - haven't seen a TON of him but I like his contributions. He always seems to have evidence for his claims
Doughboy - was confirmed when he said he was a neighbor before the flip. There wouldn't be a neighborhood where it's just mafia in it because that just doesn't make sense.
ofrhz - I agree with almost everything he does and says. Good pushes and very helpful
Light Ethos - responds perfectly to any pressure on him and is following the logic where it leads

[Light Ethos]

Its not a 'scum test', its probing the veracity of his narrative.

What narrative, and what about it isn't believable?

Narrative being your given reason for voting tictac to L-2. I didn't say it wasn't believable, I said I was probing its veracity. ie testing how well your story holds up to scrutiny.

Do you have more questions, or are you satisfied with your assessment that it doesn't hold up?

[SuperfluousNinja]

@Sephiroth

Can you find it in yourself to understand why a new player vs the legendary 11-2 / undefeated scum king is going to approach scum king with a massive dose of uncertainty, standoffishness, and distrust, no matter how well you may present yourself as town? Do you understand why I'm so unwilling to really give you what you want?