In post 509, DrDolittle wrote:I think Hop is scum number 2. We need to pressure him for his Gamma read today because he claims consistently throughout D1 that Lich should be lynched and instead votes Gamma, saying it's to gather a read. He says the process is ongoing but that he's still working on it, then all of a sudden he comes in and votes TL when he hits L-2, which looks like scum that wasn't yet committed to the bus finally going for it. He offers towncred to anyone who hammers and I think it's scummy to publicly offer towncred ever
In post 534, Lovebird wrote:I think Gamma ignored and tried to get alternatives to lich wagon all of day one, but when it looks like he's dying anyways he hammers for credit.
How
<Embrace The Void>
“A flipped coin doesn't always land heads or tails. Sometimes it may never land at all...”
In post 545, DrDolittle wrote:Can you clarify this? To me this seems more aligned with Yumeko being town since that scum fabricating miller claim requires knowledge of there being a cop role but in normals cops are not typically seen.
didnt notice i havent voted..i'm fine with yumeko or hop lynch as stated in previous wall, prefer yumeko.. VOTE: yumeko
my reason is NOT because of miller claim or setup spec..
i dont think using setup spec/argument is a good approach, as miller can be placed with no cop as a red herring by the mod..and i also dont have a strong grasp of setup..
agree to disagree..it's fine..
what i mean is it's easier for me (a person who's not good with mechanics) to be convinced of an argument based on a person's posts or lack thereof, compared to setup..
wait im assuming that's where you disagreed? or did you mean by read on yumeko/hop?
It seems I misjudged Temporal Lich, I thought the tells people were using to pin him as scum were NAI in nature and could be attributed to the fact that he was new and nervous more than anything else. That could still entirely be the case, with us getting lucky that he happened to flip scum, though that's not important right now. I too believe that people who contributed to the lynch on day 1 are likely to be town.
People I think are town for pushing on/voting TemporalLich:
RadiantCowbells
ssbm
Lovebird
xwing
Hopkirk
I've analyzed Hopkirk's posting before the hammer and determined he deserved to be in this list of townies, I recognize that other people will disagree with that, I personally would not like to lynch there.
In post 512, Hopkirk wrote:TL was obviously scum. I clarified that I thought that early in the day when I said he was always going to be the lynch.
Gamma is a good partner.
I voted lich because I had a read on gamma then, lich was on scum, and the game was stalling.
Yumeko is an option
Notice I'm voting the guy I said gets towncred btw.
Can you go over what you mean at the end - you said yesterday that whoever hammered would be town. Do you think this makes Gamma more likely to be scum? Was it a trap from the beginning, or did you decide you didn't like it after it happened?
It kind of sounds like you're claiming vigilante here Mary, can you confirm that this isn't the case? Otherwise, is there anything else you want to share about this?
I don't think Dannflor kill was a weird one, they would be in my list of townies from their voting yesterday if they hadn't died for their push on Lich yesterday.
In post 545, DrDolittle wrote:Can you clarify this? To me this seems more aligned with Yumeko being town since that scum fabricating miller claim requires knowledge of there being a cop role but in normals cops are not typically seen.
In post 560, xwing wrote:
i dont think using setup spec/argument is a good approach, as miller can be placed with no cop as a red herring by the mod..and i also dont have a strong grasp of setup..
In post 563, Vedith wrote:Don't get me wrong, im not good with mechanics but i can't see this matching up.
But yes agree to disagree I guess.
And I'm not in a disagree as much about Hopkirk and Yumeko but I'm still thinking about Hopkirk
This is a pretty icky push, and I don't agree with the notion here. The implication seems to be that my claim as miller is somehow weakened as a result of the two flipped roles here. First off, Lich flipping mafia goon seems to have no correlation to me claiming miller. If I'm missing something, feel free to correct me.
Dannflor flipped Town JOAT (1-PT Cop, 1-Doctor, 1-Commuter); it seems that you are saying the PT Cop means my role can't exist - I'd instead argue the opposite. PT Cop and Miller has a special interaction, he is a type of cop that can investigate me after I've claimed miller and get an innocent result on me.
When I see PT Cop, the first thing I think of is that one of a neighborhood, neighborizor, or masons exists in the game to mess with the results. And so I think that that is likely in this game, and that that is another part of the reason a 1-shot pt cop is in the game. In case none of these roles exist, I posit that from a setup speculation/mechanical viewpoint, it actually means my claim of miller is a town claim. If I have the only role in the game that interacts with a PT cop in a way separate from a normal cop, that indicates that my role is the reason for his role, and therefore that I'm being truthful about my role.
To put it a simpler way, I argue that a 1-shot PT cop isn't something that gets thrown into a game to confuse people with it's confusion, it's not used as a red herring - it must have some form of special interaction with another role that warrants its inclusion over a regular cop.
Furthermore, speculating on my miller claim when only 1 town role has flipped, with just a 1-shot investigative which leaves room for another investigative is foolish.
But that's setup spec and a reason for why I'm town, I want to talk about why this push makes Vedith scum. First off, this is an extraordinarily weak angle for Vedith to be pushing to try to get me lynched. Instead of pointing towards my interactions with Lich, he instead pushes me by arguing about my claim. I think it's more likely for scum to push something mechanical like a claim this early because it's less personal than calling somebody scum for the way they play, and the interactions they have in the thread. Call it a scum habit. Another one of these scum habits is hesitating when placing a vote - for me personally I sometimes don't place a vote when I'm exploring options and trying to form reads, yet Vedith was doing neither of these - he seemed set to vote me from his first argument, even when people disagreed with him. Even the act of reevaluating can be seen as scummy, so instead of doing so he committed to a vote on me - but there was never a reason to hesitate in the first place, as he never explored new options and didn't care to wait for me to respond before voting.
I further theorize that he doesn't want to push me for my interactions with Lich for fear of being labeled a hypocrite himself - something scum worry about but town often don't.
VOTE: Vedith
In post 549, xwing wrote:my two most suspicious slots are yumeko and hop right now, for the same reason: they were heavily implicating x person but voted for y person, so intents and actions do not match..
Can you further explain how this reasoning points to us being scum?
In any case, I disagree - I was questioning DDn/Dannflor, that does not mean I was implicating them. There exists a time when you want to get answers to questions that can point to someone being scum, but also don't intend to push them for it because there could be reasons you can't account for without questioning that means your deductions become untrue. I then determined that I did not want to vote for either of them, as I like the responses I got to their questions.
In post 532, RadiantCowbells wrote:I want to lunch yumeko regardless of my read on them because they annoy me
In post 565, RadiantCowbells wrote:I think they gave up on the game when they couldn't get me policy lynched instead of lynching scum regardless of alignment.
This is a good example of how town aren't afraid to look like hypocrites, which I was talking about earlier in regards to Vedith. All I've done was disagree with your stance on day 1 and point out that what you were doing could be scum motivated. I'm not sure why this has made you feel personally attacked and feel the need to lash out at me, I think you just enjoy playing the victim which leads to things like your second post here. I never once used the words policy lynch, nor did I ever imply that, I've talked about the game at hand the whole time.
In post 564, Mary Saotome wrote:I want to see Yumeko post at least once before we consider lynching her.
Reads? Pretty sure I saw you say you'd re-evaluate earlier today.
She didn't say that. In any case, she's probably nervous about posting before me. I'm here now Mary, sorry for the delay, I'd love to hear what you have to say.
Furthermore, if anybody cares I was working on a post before the game closed, It's been left abandoned in my drafts since I didn't finish it after I saw the flip and game thread lock. The formatting is a bit weird, and I've quoted things I intended to respond to but hadn't written about. I'm posting it here anyway in case anybody is interested in part of what I was thinking before the day end:
