Mini Normal 2062: Erinnerungen (um game over)

[Creature]

Quick question:

7 ICs vs 6 mafia goons would be a balanced setup?

[Vedith]

I don't understand why town had so much and to have the knowledge of 4 scum this game?

I don't want to take anything away from town as I think everyone played really well and I think you're all beautiful players.

I also don't want to only he negative here so I'm going to post a few things about the roles.

The fact town had 2 roles with multiple attempts each loyal and disloyal for a start I find crazy (only in town favour)
Scum had a huge disadvantage here with having 0 powers and having a tracker and watcher, plus the knowledge that town can lose on day 3.
We got really lucky lynching the strongest town role day 1, if we didn't we wouldn't have even made it to day 6.
I know it was 4 vs 9 but the setup town had should have had us as 4 mafia, not 3 and a traitor.
After night 1 it would have been possible for town to have found 3 scum (vig kill, neibour miss and watcher sees.)
The only knowledge we had was that there are 4 VT and we basically handled taking out PRs at most possible times other than our kill on Creature.
Having knowledge of 4 VT doesn't benefit us as scum as we can't share this information and use to our advantage, we wouldn't disbelieve acclaim and it doesn't help in working out where to kill given that majority of town lead to a PR death.

At this stage I'm just rambling.

I liked the mod and I'm grateful for the effort in the game.
The end of day posts and stuff with fluff etc I really enjoyed and I really enjoyed the player list.
Scum team were all great and I think we worked really well together.
Overall I'm glad I was in the game, I just don't think this game deserves to be in the normal queue, even if it does meet normal requirements.

[Creature]

*kills traitor*
*whole game becomes absurdly townsided to ever be playable*

[Vedith]

Even if you wasn't killed it was going to be Chara who was VT.
So the results of scum would have still been given to town.
Made no difference to the end.

[Dr Easy Bake]

Dang, sorry I missed the last day cycle, y'all went fast. Great job everyone!

[insomnia]

Urap reads me like a book, it’s a curse

[insomnia]

I told you urap was going to be on my ass, should’ve nked him :p

[Vedith]

Should a woulda coulda lol

[Shiidaji]

Go team Our PRs were deadly. Swingy setup that I think town wins most of the time, very reliant on good PR usage with little scum counterplay. I feel the vig getting lynched without a claim and then scum shooting a crumbed traitor makes this a poor case for it though.

I liked playing with everyone and enjoyed the modding thank u Zulfy xx

[Creature]

This would've been a worse stomp if wilky didn't get lynched

[Creature]

*have four scum*
*also makes half the town extremely strong PRs to counter all that "power" from scum*

[Zulfy]

I think the criticisms of the setup are valid. But I think scum could have won 100 percent if two things had been different:

Don't kill the traitor that breadcrumbs page 1 lol

When your role tells you there's so many PRs, and you yourself speculate there's a watcher, sacrifice the guy everyone already made clear they suspect (Flavor Leaf) and not the one no one has voiced much of an opinion of (Vedith) when killing your claimed PR (URAP)

Also don't let lurkers like Scepticism and John fuck up a scumslut.

[Shiidaji]

@ the very least needed a scum RB or JK to help make offensive or defensive plays I think, it would help give some doubt to the two loyal/disloyal detective roles

how do I get my hands on the scum QT w the new forum setup thoooo

[RAS]

A few post-game comments:

– My last comments towards Vedith wasn't a stab at him for trying, but more-so just pointing out that he kept grasping at straws. I'm glad you kept trying, and I hope you didn't take what I said to the heart.

– I'd like to apologize to Flippy for the quick lynch. I misread what your role did entirely, and you can put the blame on me for that one. I was all over the place that day, and I should've just taken it slow. I know it ultimately won us the game, but there's still no excuse for it.

– I'm finding myself agreeing with a lot of the things Vedith said in Post 1901. This setup feels heavily town-sided even with a different Night 1 outcome but I wasn't here for the entirety of the game. I expected the last scum to be a lot more strong than an Informed Mafia though, I don't think having the knowledge that there's 4 VT in the game is all that helpful.

– Thank you for modding this game, Zulfy.

One last thing, why did you choose the NK the night URAP died, Vedith? Or are you going to make me wait for the scum PT for this one?

[Shiidaji]

scumslut

[Vedith]

My last comments towards Vedith wasn't a stab at him for trying, but more-so just pointing out that he kept grasping at straws. I'm glad you kept trying, and I hope you didn't take what I said to the heart.

No I get it we're good.
I didn't have anything else to go by really.

[Vedith]

One last thing, why did you choose the NK the night URAP died, Vedith? Or are you going to make me wait for the scum PT for this one?

Let me check I can't even remember why

[Vedith]

So 2 things, 1 I put the kill in and I don't normally select someone else to make the kill.
2 that night in particular I ignored the 4 VT thing and was underestimating town having strong roles left.

[Emperor flippyNips]

A few post-game comments:

– I'd like to apologize to Flippy for the quick lynch. I misread what your role did entirely, and you can put the blame on me for that one. I was all over the place that day, and I should've just taken it slow. I know it ultimately won us the game, but there's still no excuse for

It’s all good I see how there was a mix up

Good game everyone! It was fun

[Zulfy]

scumslut

Scumslot! Slot!

[Zulfy]

All PTs made public in a few hours unless someone objects

[Vedith]

Also don't let lurkers like Scepticism and John fuck up a scumslut.

This part is out of anyone's hands for the record.

[Flavor Leaf]

Creature...I can’t read you. -.-

[mastina]

I don't understand why town had so much and to have the knowledge of 4 scum this game?

Hi I am the designer of this setup and therefore can answer your question.

You know that other four scum setup which was run that I coincidentally was a reviewer of? (I say coincidentally, because in spite of this game being run later, I designed this setup

first

, literally MONTHS before that abomination of a game was run.)

THIS is the level of power a town needs in a four-scum game.

It's not like the scum had nothing.
They were explicitly told in their role PMs that there were four groupscum, with one of them a traitor.
They were explicitly told that there were four VTs in the game--and by extent, that you had to find, identify, and eliminate five power roles. (You knew there were nine town players and four VTs, of which five would then have roles NOT being a VT.)

You also made multiple misplays.
You couldn't predict the double-guilty...but you could have had flavor leaf shoot, because he was already confscum. Having YOURSELF perform the kill caused a THIRD guilty--one which was 100% completely and totally utterly avoidable if you sent flavor leaf to kill instead. Not to mention how you shot your traitor N1, who was CREATURE of all people. (Creature, the guy who is transparently scum, was your nightkill.)

Four scum is an INCREDIBLY difficult barrier to overcome. Town gets only two mislynches before lylo (four town dead via 2 nightkills + 2 lynches = 5:4, which in this setup's lylo)--and spent one on

their strongest power role

.

When you have a game with four groupscum, the town NEEDS to know about it. It's literally a requirement and would be borderline-bastard for them to not know. They then further need some incredibly strong PRs, but redundancy built in if a strong PR dies early--you can't hang the town's hopes for victories on a single strong town PR; it needs to be spread out across multiple.

The staple town PRs this game were the disloyal vig, loyal neighborizer, and watcher, giving the necessary counterbalance. The JOAT was to round things out without being overpowered, because under normal circumstances, the only guilty the JOAT could produce is if they correctly tracked the killing scum...and with three scum in the game that could kill with a fourth scum that couldn't, that was incredibly unlikely to happen.

Town, aside from mislynching their PRs, had incredibly spot-on night actions; scum made some of the worst possible shots in the game.

But run a second time, the situation very well could've been reversed. Keep in mind that a disloyal vig doesn't know for sure if they get an innocent, because their target could've been doctored or they could've been roleblocked; a loyal neighborizer doesn't know for sure if they got a guilty, because they could've been roleblocked.

Both of these were possibilities which scum could have argued their way out of with a different approach.

[mastina]

Even if you wasn't killed it was going to be Chara who was VT.

Actually it would.
Killing Creature gave the town an extra mislynch.

Had Chara died instead, then given this game went to 4p mylo (and could've gone to 3p lylo if not for you deliberately no-killing), that means scum would've won.

You came that close. If you had Creature and yourself alive on the day you mislynched Emperor Flippynips, all you'd need to do is not kill Creature and you'd have instantly won the game right then and there.