Large Normal 221 - Endgame

[ofrhz]

I straight up townread Eyes, nom, and red

Lucky is meh mainly because their posts are a chore to get through

1. When did your read on nom change? Was it 1682 after nom started scumreading you?

Have you seen the reasons I've given for why I scumread nom?

This really feels like you're trying to nitpick ~inconsistencies~ in my ISO without really reading

2. The above doesn't jibe with what you've just said about me

What do you mean?

[ofrhz]

You're blatantly discrediting me without actually commenting on any of the substance of my posts.

What substance? You've insisted that me or Kirari are scum based on Red not voting the Niko wagon

You haven't changed that read at all or really made any effort to imo

I know I'm town and I think Kirari is town too

[ofrhz]

I still think otter is more towny than not though he is going down the rabbit hole of “scum would do this”

And when did your read of me change? After I started scumreading you? Because I see literally zero progression between this and

Probably prefer to lynch otter, vork, then deas

I should put more effort in this game though. Soon TM

(Over the weekend)

Again, if you were actually reading my posts to determine my alignment, I feel like you would've realized that 2036 is in direct reply to 2035 where Kirari asks me to list which of you, Vork, and DV I prefer to lynch

I said you were more towny than not but on balance I don't think you're townier than either Vork or DV

[ofrhz]

What are your feelings among DV/LO/Vork ofrhz?

[popsofctown]

I feel like I'm still on otter here

[ofrhz]

Again, if you were actually reading my posts to determine my alignment, I feel like you would've realized that 2036 is in direct reply to 2035 where Kirari asks me to list which of you, Vork, and DV I prefer to lynch

I said you were more towny than not but on balance I don't think you're townier than either Vork or DV

Also I said this later in my ISO that pretty much point to me still thinking you're nulltown at the time, so I think my read on you is pretty clear?

Spoiler:

Now, Roster immediately unvotes, as does Red after Alchemist joins. So I'm still good with Red as scum here. Roster is unclear. I'm good with Alchemist and Nero as town, and leaning town on Jesus.

I think otter gets not-groupscum points for this. I mean it's not obviously not a bus, but I don't think he really needed to keep pushing Red here when the day looked set for an Eyes vs Jesus lynch.

Probably worth thinking about whether scum!otter would kill either roster or alch there?

Idk how Creature busses, I’d rather just spend some time reading some past games

I feel like I have weak reasons to put both otter and vork as town but am not confident in those townreads based on their content alone to push elsewhere right now when they’re both barely posting

[Kirari Momobami]

@ Kirari, you are scumreading me for a very similar post to this, saying it looks svs to you. How is the above post different?

a) Red did not bother responding to it. If the point was to get an easy s/s interaction out of the way, it's a bit more surprising that RF wouldn't take the invitation. More likely to ignore the question if it's T/S

b) ofrhz seems town to me off tone early game, and I don't like ofrhz's defense of RedFlavor for s/s

so two decent reasons for me that make me think ofrhz is not the last group scum. Now, I don't think nom is the last groupscum, but if you want to lynch the top candidate for traitor I'd say nom is one of the only people I'd consider doing today over you, but the problem I have is that I don't have another good candidate for the last groupscum.

If you and Nero want to lead on Nom, I'd be intrigued by that.

[Nero Cain]

Nero, why not Otter for scum?

b/c I'm bad?

idk. You guys could certainly be right and I could be wrong. I was also nodding along with ofhrz case for why Otter is town. At the same time, I guess you could argue that he just kept pushing Red b/c he knew Red was scum.

And then there's also like, KK, kirari and Nom who I think are scummy. KK's "informed" could just be an SK and if he was informed then I'm not at all sure why he was voting Niko.

the SK talk/Hunting from Nom and Kirari seem really scummy to me. Like if you are group scum you hunt the SK b/c you can't hunt yourself.

[popsofctown]

Nero I wanna BoP lynch you I am really disappointed on how that Montosh thing turned out

[popsofctown]

Also all those reads seem bad

[Nero Cain]

sorry you feel that way

[DeasVail]

Nero, why not Otter for scum?

b/c I'm bad?

idk. You guys could certainly be right and I could be wrong. I was also nodding along with ofhrz case for why Otter is town. At the same time, I guess you could argue that he just kept pushing Red b/c he knew Red was scum.

And then there's also like, KK, kirari and Nom who I think are scummy. KK's "informed" could just be an SK and if he was informed then I'm not at all sure why he was voting Niko.

the SK talk/Hunting from Nom and Kirari seem really scummy to me. Like if you are group scum you hunt the SK b/c you can't hunt yourself.

I also have concerns re: KK but he’s very unlikely to be group scum and so I’m letting that simmer for now. I feel like we’ll have a better idea there later.

I agree that the degree of setup/SK speculation occurring has been very much not useful, but I’ve been reading Kirari and nom as town for other reasons, so I’m not sure how much weight to give the weird preoccupation with setup spec and am leaning towards not considering it too significant right now.

[Kublai Khan]

Vote: Vorkuta

Hey, wake up.

[Kirari Momobami]

nom as town

Can you expand on nom town DV?

[Not Known 15]

Vote Count 4.2

LuckyOtter(4)DeasVail,Kirari Momobami,popsofctown,Vorkuta,

ofrhz(2)LuckyOtter,nomnomnom,

Not Voting(1)ofrhz,

Jesus Louisus(1)Nero Cain,

Nero Cain(1)Jesus Louisus,

Vorkuta(1)Kublai Khan,

BodhiSmith13

DeasVail(0)

Saudade

Lil Uzi Vert

popsofctown(0)

HeWhoSwims

nomnomnom(0)

Kublai Khan(0)

Kirari Momobami(0)

No Lynch(0)

With 10 alive it is 6 to lynch.

Day 3 will end in (expired on 2019-07-17 18:43:00) or when a lynch has been achieved.

[Jesus Louisus]

that was pretty slick

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Otter

My preference order has changed!

That was easy. Thanks for your vote of confident. Now move to Nero. Please.

[Jesus Louisus]

KK does your analysis above make you think we should massclaim today or tomorrow?

Tomorrow probably.

I'll drop a nugget of info though. I have an informed role and I know who the other vig is.

So given that I can see no SK kills over the first 3 nights. I'm gonna squelch the idea that there is an SK and I guess confirm that it must be a traitor.

[Jesus Louisus]

My paranoia is justified here whether you like it or not.

Claim your info now. There is literally no reason not to claim especially if you believe the scumteam has a traitor and that it would mean a reduced mainteam to hunt for. Jesus christ.

I agree with nom.

You have got to fully claim now or you will be lynched or at least brought to L-1 and the you claim and then we start from scratch. Don't waste time.

[Jesus Louisus]

The SK paranoia only weakens the vigs.

Then just claim who the vig is

Seriously, nomnomnom. Stop being scummy.

If I'm right about the game's setup, then my claiming now would take out all of the town's remaining power. Scum usually win mountaneous. All I'm done is promise that SK is off the table. You can still hunt scum. Right now it sounds like you're super pissed you can't control the gameplay to SK-hunting.

I've said SK is off the table a few times and no one believed me, why should we believe

you

now?

[Jesus Louisus]

VOTE: ofrhz

[DeasVail]

nom as town

Can you expand on nom town DV?

It's a read that's grown for me a bit since Day 3 and the more I see from nom the more it fits in with my impression of them as town.

Most recently I've found the assertive pushing and expressed frustration surrounding KK's claim re: being informed about a vig to be more likely town. It doesn't make much sense for scum to push for KK to claim who the vig is. It's a classically "bad look" that could be accused of being "rolefishing", but nom makes a correct point that it wouldn't actually be useful information for the scum right now. So if nom is scum what they are doing is being obnoxious and causing people to think badly of them.... unnecessarily? What's the point? You could argue that nom is playing this way in order to look "genuine" and "town" but as far as I know I'm the only one that has actually interpreted nom's posts this way and I just think it's a strategy that wouldn't work for scum more often than not. People are more willing to lynch you if they don't enjoy your posting!

I don't agree with nom. I think that KK can do what he likes with whatever information he may have at this stage and I don't think it's up to me right now to try and force that out of him. But I think that the example I'm talking about fits with what nom's approach to the game has been and I don't see it as a scum approach.

I also see their persistent townread on me as more town- than scum-motivated. I am sure that scum would be seeing me as a potential mislynch, if not now then later, and a lot of people are expressing doubt regarding my alignment. But at the same time, I don't think scum can rely on me getting lynched just like that. It would make more sense for nom as scum to at least keep me open as a mislynch option, rather than risk looking bad by "starting to scumread" me after being so steadfast in "reading" me as town.

[DeasVail]

that was pretty slick

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Otter

My preference order has changed!

That was easy. Thanks for your vote of confident. Now move to Nero. Please.

I would need a lot of convincing to not see Nero as town here!

[Kirari Momobami]

nom makes a correct point that it wouldn't actually be useful information for the scum right now. So if nom is scum what they are doing is being obnoxious and causing people to think badly of them.... unnecessarily? What's the point?

Read nom scumgames, her entire shtick as scum is to just aggressively push obvtown and then say she doesn't understand obvious things

she's definitely not town this game, if you're hung up on "why would scum do that? what's the point?" -- the point is to get you to ask yourself that question.

the only reason she's not already lynched is because Alch made a strong case on her being the traitor and not shared-PT with Creature, but she is definitely not town

[DeasVail]

What do they do as town?

[nomnomnom]

nom makes a correct point that it wouldn't actually be useful information for the scum right now. So if nom is scum what they are doing is being obnoxious and causing people to think badly of them.... unnecessarily? What's the point?

Read nom scumgames, her entire shtick as scum is to just aggressively push obvtown and then say she doesn't understand obvious things

You definitely haven't read my towngames to come to this conclusion lmao

I invite you to read the micro I was town in to understand that what you're describing is, unfortunately, not alignment indicative. I'm trying to calm down a bit on it but it takes time.