Large Normal 229 | Manatee's Musical Mafia | Game Over


User avatar
shellyc
shellyc
Jack of All Trades
User avatar
User avatar
shellyc
Jack of All Trades
Jack of All Trades
Posts: 6472
Joined: July 11, 2020
Location: Southeast Asia EST+12

Post Post #6175 (ISO) » Tue Oct 06, 2020 8:06 pm

Post by shellyc »

In post 6122, Glitch wrote:While I think Titus and JV both played well, these are the posts that, IMO, won the game. These had me convinced JV was town as I took it as scum trying to PR hunt. I should have released this thought though after JV claimed and didn't get killed promptly. Damn.
didn’t mean for those interactions to be the final straw in lylo but :eyes:
"I really dig your cult leadery charismatic vibes" - Hectic

We live in a twilight world. And there are no friends at dusk.
User avatar
Nero Cain
Nero Cain
Survivor
User avatar
User avatar
Nero Cain
Survivor
Survivor
Posts: 44933
Joined: December 6, 2009

Post Post #6176 (ISO) » Tue Oct 06, 2020 8:21 pm

Post by Nero Cain »

someone, I think shelly?, said town was loaded and eh.....

maybe?

the 4 1/2 investigation roles seem about right. Glitch's role doesn't add a bunch of power though. I understand why Glitch would do what he could to survive but it directly lead to a much more powerful pr getting lynched. At first, I was "why is there no doc?" but I guess the whole point of the setup was that our watcher serves basically the same purpose and I guess a watcher/doc combo is too powerful.

MM's role makes this very swingy so like if he shoots more scum and they lose the scum is going to complain that the setup is unbalanced.

I don't think town was "stacked" but it might seem that way to me of the way things played out b/c town lost a good chunk of investigation power by d2. But also 10/6 ins't that far off from where I was thinking anyway 4 or 5 town prs seems low.
Of all tyrannies,a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

edited c.s. lewis quote b/c limit
User avatar
Marshmallow Marshall
Marshmallow Marshall
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Marshmallow Marshall
Goon
Goon
Posts: 669
Joined: January 25, 2018

Post Post #6177 (ISO) » Tue Oct 06, 2020 8:23 pm

Post by Marshmallow Marshall »

GG mafia, especially JV.
Norweegian:
I'm changing your name to Marshal Zhukov after watching that video.
User avatar
shellyc
shellyc
Jack of All Trades
User avatar
User avatar
shellyc
Jack of All Trades
Jack of All Trades
Posts: 6472
Joined: July 11, 2020
Location: Southeast Asia EST+12

Post Post #6178 (ISO) » Tue Oct 06, 2020 8:25 pm

Post by shellyc »

yeah JV carried us, that claim was really good

I could actually see Titus being shot by MM, wondering why that didnt happen
"I really dig your cult leadery charismatic vibes" - Hectic

We live in a twilight world. And there are no friends at dusk.
User avatar
Nero Cain
Nero Cain
Survivor
User avatar
User avatar
Nero Cain
Survivor
Survivor
Posts: 44933
Joined: December 6, 2009

Post Post #6179 (ISO) » Tue Oct 06, 2020 8:25 pm

Post by Nero Cain »

if Pete doesn't qh d1 and 72 claims then he just gets shot? or maybe scum thinks there's a doc and doesn't shoot him?
Of all tyrannies,a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

edited c.s. lewis quote b/c limit
User avatar
Nero Cain
Nero Cain
Survivor
User avatar
User avatar
Nero Cain
Survivor
Survivor
Posts: 44933
Joined: December 6, 2009

Post Post #6180 (ISO) » Tue Oct 06, 2020 8:27 pm

Post by Nero Cain »

I kinda fee like MM should have tried to get lynched @ some point andused his venge.
Of all tyrannies,a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

edited c.s. lewis quote b/c limit
User avatar
JacksonVirgo
JacksonVirgo
they/him
Survivor
User avatar
User avatar
JacksonVirgo
they/him
Survivor
Survivor
Posts: 12425
Joined: October 29, 2019
Pronoun: they/him
Location: ɐılɐɹʇsn∀
Contact:

Post Post #6181 (ISO) » Tue Oct 06, 2020 9:11 pm

Post by JacksonVirgo »

In post 6180, Nero Cain wrote:I kinda fee like MM should have tried to get lynched @ some point andused his venge.
What would be the benefit outside of just shooting who they'd plan to kill?
User avatar
Nero Cain
Nero Cain
Survivor
User avatar
User avatar
Nero Cain
Survivor
Survivor
Posts: 44933
Joined: December 6, 2009

Post Post #6182 (ISO) » Tue Oct 06, 2020 9:15 pm

Post by Nero Cain »

he gets lynched wich means you have to shoot someone else and we get to see what happens.
Of all tyrannies,a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

edited c.s. lewis quote b/c limit
User avatar
Titus
Titus
She/her/hers
Moon Walker
User avatar
User avatar
Titus
She/her/hers
Moon Walker
Moon Walker
Posts: 80249
Joined: May 3, 2013
Pronoun: She/her/hers
Contact:

Post Post #6183 (ISO) » Wed Oct 07, 2020 2:57 am

Post by Titus »

Putting Venge on a Vigilante is stupid setup wise. A confirmed vig is conftown in normals and MM couldn't be SK. I have a few more thoughts on this setup but it was very much townsided.
Show
The scum had the misfortune of Titus being absurdly accurate on day one.Really quite impressed by that.~Drixx

You're letting Titus win the game by herself.Good luck now I guess.You have no chance to win.~Tywin

GTKTitus Part 2
Titus Academy

VLA Friday nights until Sunday morning.

All hail the Scum Empress!
User avatar
Micc
Micc
He/Him
Jack of All Trades
User avatar
User avatar
Micc
He/Him
Jack of All Trades
Jack of All Trades
Posts: 7408
Joined: October 1, 2013
Pronoun: He/Him
Location: At Home

Post Post #6184 (ISO) » Wed Oct 07, 2020 5:08 am

Post by Micc »

These private threads have now been released:
Neighborhood Thread
Mafia Thread
Dead Thread
"To hide a tree, use a forest" -Ninja Boy Hideo
User avatar
Glitch
Glitch
He/Him
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Glitch
He/Him
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 1074
Joined: April 24, 2015
Pronoun: He/Him
Location: Houston, TX

Post Post #6185 (ISO) » Wed Oct 07, 2020 8:31 am

Post by Glitch »

Dead thread best post award goes to a50 lmao

viewtopic.php?p=12156435#p12156435
User avatar
Town looter
Town looter
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Town looter
Goon
Goon
Posts: 636
Joined: May 25, 2020
Location: New Zealand

Post Post #6186 (ISO) » Wed Oct 07, 2020 9:46 am

Post by Town looter »

Haha yep.

Turns out A50 is a bit of a twat, but a sharp player. Might read a few of his games.
signature
User avatar
Town looter
Town looter
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Town looter
Goon
Goon
Posts: 636
Joined: May 25, 2020
Location: New Zealand

Post Post #6187 (ISO) » Wed Oct 07, 2020 2:44 pm

Post by Town looter »

In post 5524, Town looter wrote:
In post 5514, JacksonVirgo wrote:
In post 5512, NorwegianboyEE wrote:
In post 5507, JacksonVirgo wrote:I have no words
What did you expect anyway? For me to magically get trusted and not get hammered later?
Did not expect you to self-hammer, especially when I was going to do some ISO'ing.

Also Titus, be on me. MM shoot within Ralph/Stan. Glitch choose who you want to neighbourize, I of course want myself in there but that might just be personal bias.

I think that's a default win for town.
If NEE flips town, Titus needs to take the shot. That way we get Titus flip, and one of our POE.

It's how we win (well, kind of, we will still have a somewhat difficult LYLO by my reckoning).
I'm looking at you MM :P
signature
User avatar
Glitch
Glitch
He/Him
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Glitch
He/Him
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 1074
Joined: April 24, 2015
Pronoun: He/Him
Location: Houston, TX

Post Post #6188 (ISO) » Wed Oct 07, 2020 3:02 pm

Post by Glitch »

In post 6186, Town looter wrote:Haha yep.

Turns out A50 is a bit of a twat, but a sharp player. Might read a few of his games.
He makes me pissed the fuck off a good bit but he's a badass scumhunter. Points for that lol
User avatar
Titus
Titus
She/her/hers
Moon Walker
User avatar
User avatar
Titus
She/her/hers
Moon Walker
Moon Walker
Posts: 80249
Joined: May 3, 2013
Pronoun: She/her/hers
Contact:

Post Post #6189 (ISO) » Wed Oct 07, 2020 4:38 pm

Post by Titus »

I still can't believe I lived after asking to be shot and the protown thing was to freaking shoot me.

The dead thread could be renamed the Why is Titus alive? thread. It was quite funny.
Show
The scum had the misfortune of Titus being absurdly accurate on day one.Really quite impressed by that.~Drixx

You're letting Titus win the game by herself.Good luck now I guess.You have no chance to win.~Tywin

GTKTitus Part 2
Titus Academy

VLA Friday nights until Sunday morning.

All hail the Scum Empress!
User avatar
JacksonVirgo
JacksonVirgo
they/him
Survivor
User avatar
User avatar
JacksonVirgo
they/him
Survivor
Survivor
Posts: 12425
Joined: October 29, 2019
Pronoun: they/him
Location: ɐılɐɹʇsn∀
Contact:

Post Post #6190 (ISO) » Wed Oct 07, 2020 7:20 pm

Post by JacksonVirgo »

I think I pushed against a Titus shot because I was gonna heal Titus. Maybe that stopped them uwu
User avatar
JacksonVirgo
JacksonVirgo
they/him
Survivor
User avatar
User avatar
JacksonVirgo
they/him
Survivor
Survivor
Posts: 12425
Joined: October 29, 2019
Pronoun: they/him
Location: ɐılɐɹʇsn∀
Contact:

Post Post #6191 (ISO) » Wed Oct 07, 2020 10:32 pm

Post by JacksonVirgo »

Thank you for everyone that played, I love every one of you (even you a50 uwu)
User avatar
mastina
mastina
She/Her
False Prophet
User avatar
User avatar
mastina
She/Her
False Prophet
False Prophet
Posts: 16670
Joined: October 7, 2016
Pronoun: She/Her
Location: Between Snohomish and Monroe, WA
Contact:

Post Post #6192 (ISO) » Thu Oct 08, 2020 11:45 am

Post by mastina »

Hi I reviewed this game.
User avatar
Titus
Titus
She/her/hers
Moon Walker
User avatar
User avatar
Titus
She/her/hers
Moon Walker
Moon Walker
Posts: 80249
Joined: May 3, 2013
Pronoun: She/her/hers
Contact:

Post Post #6193 (ISO) » Thu Oct 08, 2020 12:51 pm

Post by Titus »

Hi mastina. Happy Cake Day.

Now, time for some honesty.

How did you think this was balanced?

Scum has only two PRs (even night watcher, loud vanilla cop) against 3 clearing roles (3 shot GS, n3 GS, Disloyal Roleblocker), an IC (the vig once claimed is unexecutable), a watcher (allows for follow the gunsmith/clears since scum have no way to bypass, PLUS it makes the even night watcher autoguilty), a motion detector plus neighborizer (has more multitasking than the scumteam and stops scum from lying about their actions). Plus the 3 shot GS was loud which meant the loud vanilla cop was CCed. Not even a rolecop to prioritize shooting the watcher.

Scum was really lucky all the PRs were outed/killed early because a loud rolecop can't investigate anywhere they want because they have to have a fakeclaim that justifies every visit. Even worse, it's only a vanilla cop.

Roll this setup 99/100 times town wins.
Show
The scum had the misfortune of Titus being absurdly accurate on day one.Really quite impressed by that.~Drixx

You're letting Titus win the game by herself.Good luck now I guess.You have no chance to win.~Tywin

GTKTitus Part 2
Titus Academy

VLA Friday nights until Sunday morning.

All hail the Scum Empress!
User avatar
Titus
Titus
She/her/hers
Moon Walker
User avatar
User avatar
Titus
She/her/hers
Moon Walker
Moon Walker
Posts: 80249
Joined: May 3, 2013
Pronoun: She/her/hers
Contact:

Post Post #6194 (ISO) » Thu Oct 08, 2020 12:58 pm

Post by Titus »

Oh I forgot to mention, town has more stopping power than scum.
Show
The scum had the misfortune of Titus being absurdly accurate on day one.Really quite impressed by that.~Drixx

You're letting Titus win the game by herself.Good luck now I guess.You have no chance to win.~Tywin

GTKTitus Part 2
Titus Academy

VLA Friday nights until Sunday morning.

All hail the Scum Empress!
User avatar
NoPowerOverMe
NoPowerOverMe
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
NoPowerOverMe
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 4082
Joined: May 9, 2020

Post Post #6195 (ISO) » Thu Oct 08, 2020 1:32 pm

Post by NoPowerOverMe »

Game Setup Analysis:
Town:
Watcher
Disloyal Roleblocker
3 Shot Loud Gunsmith
Vengeful Vigilante
Night 3 Gunsmith
Combined Neighborizer Motion Detector
VTX10

Mafia
Even Night Watcher
Loud Vanilla Cop
Goonx3

*Most of the town power roles have modifiers which make them less powerful.
*Scum vanilla cop is very helpful in determining who to night kill.
*Town to scum ratio is 16/5 which is balanced
*Vig has a good chance of hitting his own teammates.

I feel this is a balanced setup.
Mafia Record: Town 4-3 Mafia 0-1 Third Party 1-0 Total 5-4
"NPOM you can do apparently whatever the fuck you want this game." - Alduskkel

Wiki: https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... owerOverMe
User avatar
Titus
Titus
She/her/hers
Moon Walker
User avatar
User avatar
Titus
She/her/hers
Moon Walker
Moon Walker
Posts: 80249
Joined: May 3, 2013
Pronoun: She/her/hers
Contact:

Post Post #6196 (ISO) » Thu Oct 08, 2020 1:38 pm

Post by Titus »

In post 6195, NoPowerOverMe wrote:Most of the town power roles have modifiers which make them less powerful.
*Scum vanilla cop is very helpful in determining who to night kill.
Really? Is it the disloyal modifier that makes things less powerful by clearing whatever PR it visits? The venge is utility neutral since it should never enter play. The three shot being loud CCs a scum so that's not negative utility. The only nerf in the context of this setup was n3 gs and that's still not a nerf but just a gatekeeping.

Scum shouldn't have to depend on a vig shooting wrong. Balance is not made around 4 or 5 vig misses.

Second, a vanilla cop tells next to nothing. Great found a PR...are they the doctor? Or are they doc protected? Scum have zero way of knowing the utility of any given PR.
Show
The scum had the misfortune of Titus being absurdly accurate on day one.Really quite impressed by that.~Drixx

You're letting Titus win the game by herself.Good luck now I guess.You have no chance to win.~Tywin

GTKTitus Part 2
Titus Academy

VLA Friday nights until Sunday morning.

All hail the Scum Empress!
User avatar
Town looter
Town looter
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Town looter
Goon
Goon
Posts: 636
Joined: May 25, 2020
Location: New Zealand

Post Post #6197 (ISO) » Thu Oct 08, 2020 2:01 pm

Post by Town looter »

With my inexperienced eye, I think the only thing that I would say is unbalanced is the Disloyal modifier on the roleblocker, but even then I am not sure.

Remember my PR will provide negative utility a lot of the time. Me turning it into positive utility was lucky.

If I had been run up to E-1, if Fwesnid had checked me or even if Glitch spotted me moving, I would have had to claim, and claiming Night 3 Gunsmith is not something that is likely to fly. Especially since you can add a bunch of Mod/Spec WIFOM around mafia Docs (you saw how Ydr was read, for example).

Similarly, Vengeful Vig hurt more than it helped, and was one of the many reasons we lost (no offence MM, I wouldn't have done any better).

I don't see Town winning this 99% of the time. I think it's slightly town-sided because of the disloyal modifier.

I do think it is very swingy based on skill though. All the PRs (except mine), and the scum NKs, can dictate a game if executed well.
signature
User avatar
Nero Cain
Nero Cain
Survivor
User avatar
User avatar
Nero Cain
Survivor
Survivor
Posts: 44933
Joined: December 6, 2009

Post Post #6198 (ISO) » Thu Oct 08, 2020 2:59 pm

Post by Nero Cain »

Sans the vig is this balanced? mostly @ Titus
Of all tyrannies,a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

edited c.s. lewis quote b/c limit
User avatar
Titus
Titus
She/her/hers
Moon Walker
User avatar
User avatar
Titus
She/her/hers
Moon Walker
Moon Walker
Posts: 80249
Joined: May 3, 2013
Pronoun: She/her/hers
Contact:

Post Post #6199 (ISO) » Thu Oct 08, 2020 3:05 pm

Post by Titus »

In post 6198, Nero Cain wrote:Sans the vig is this balanced? mostly @ Titus
The vig actually gives scum a theoretical chance. Your role needed to be scum in exchange for my loud vanilla cop. Then it would be closer to balanced.

JV also would need to be a tracker, not watcher.
Show
The scum had the misfortune of Titus being absurdly accurate on day one.Really quite impressed by that.~Drixx

You're letting Titus win the game by herself.Good luck now I guess.You have no chance to win.~Tywin

GTKTitus Part 2
Titus Academy

VLA Friday nights until Sunday morning.

All hail the Scum Empress!
Locked

Return to “Completed Large Normal Games”