Mini Normal 2187: PIFiMDM [game over!]


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Post Post #1025 (ISO) » Mon Jan 11, 2021 6:53 pm

Post by northsidegal »

dann, i think there are some inconsistencies in the zito/hayker narrative that i want to mull over a bit with you. i guess the first isn't so much of an inconsistency so much as a really notable point, that of hayker's kind of weird and really strong townread on zito. it does, however, lead into the other point—agar said this:
In post 576, AGar wrote: #547 - If Hayker is scum, Zito is town. Book it.
i'm not sure how much an agar (assuming that penguin was the vig shot, which seems at the moment a decent assumption) kill makes sense with zito / hayker scum. to be fair, i think i might be ignoring the counterfactual here, which is simply why agar was killed at all, not even considering why specific teams might have killed him (and i have given that question less thought than i probably should have).
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Post Post #1026 (ISO) » Mon Jan 11, 2021 6:54 pm

Post by northsidegal »

In post 1024, unwnd wrote:
In post 1023, northsidegal wrote:oh, kazyan has sunk down a bit more to null for me since . i think a lot of my read was based on the idea that he actually was hectic, and he made a comment that seemed really hectic-town-indicative to me in , the "reactions more important than the act itself" point. given that he (as i now believe / know) isn't and given some tonally kind of scummy posts like he's dropped
Yeah I'm tinfoiling him a good amount too, even if our reasons aren't fully similar
i wouldn't say that i'm "tinfoiling" him necessarily, just that whereas before he was one of my only townreads i wouldn't really put him up there anymore.
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Post Post #1027 (ISO) » Mon Jan 11, 2021 6:57 pm

Post by unwnd »

Actually that post you highlighted pings me a lot, reads to me like fake affirmative action "towniness", like what was the point of that lol
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Post Post #1028 (ISO) » Mon Jan 11, 2021 6:58 pm

Post by unwnd »

Affirmative action was probably the wrong thing to say there

I'll rephrase: It looked he made such a deliberate point to basically say 'OK guys, here's the blatantly obvious thing townies should do, because I as well am town'
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Post Post #1029 (ISO) » Mon Jan 11, 2021 7:01 pm

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i'm pretty confident in lunar being town such that i'd be really surprised if he ended up being scum, mostly because he's played in a way that really doesn't seem like in general how a newer player would play scum, nor does it seem like for him specifically he's playing his scum game. zito brought up earlier some point about him dying before lylo or some such as a liability, and i bring up him bringing that up only to disagree on both a reads level and a philosophical level. people "needing to die" should be struck from any town player's vocabulary.

anyways, to go into some specific examples while not overstating the subject, i think that lunar probably doesn't go really hard against the guy defending him (ben) like he does in if he were scum. it doesn't match how he interacted with his partners in the one scum newbie game i saw from him and i would doubt that he would interact with a townie like that as scum – i'd imagine he'd just ignore it. (not sure why i bring up the partner point when ben is conftown already but whatever)

also just in general he's playing a pretty aggressive game such that it doesn't feel like he has anyone that he could be partnered with. again i'm going off of his other scumgame here with regards for what i was looking for in terms of partner interactions, but still even without that i feel as though he lacks almost any partner associatives. there are some other random posts that also seem like they basically only come from town too like and but that's probably enough said on the subject
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Post Post #1030 (ISO) » Mon Jan 11, 2021 7:03 pm

Post by northsidegal »

In post 1028, unwnd wrote:Affirmative action was probably the wrong thing to say there

I'll rephrase: It looked he made such a deliberate point to basically say 'OK guys, here's the blatantly obvious thing townies should do, because I as well am town'
i believe the term is LAMIST

and yeah looking back i think that i sort of passed over it because if hectic were to say that i would understand it as him getting at some sort of underlying philosophy with regards to townies doing outrageous things, but without that context it doesn't quite look the same
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Post Post #1031 (ISO) » Mon Jan 11, 2021 7:04 pm

Post by northsidegal »

i also thought the continual numbering 1) 2) list thing was a hectic bit too but yeah

anyways enough about hectic
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Post Post #1032 (ISO) » Mon Jan 11, 2021 7:05 pm

Post by unwnd »

Yeah I'm not with the new jargon at all so I had to look that up

What do you think of Elements NSG?
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Post Post #1033 (ISO) » Mon Jan 11, 2021 7:08 pm

Post by northsidegal »

scumread

i know that i harp on and on about not overfocusing on townies who do outrageous things but in this case i feel as though he did outrageous things and is just scum. we'll see if ignoring my own philosophy comes back to bite me, but to be fair another thing that a very wise townie once said is that the best townies know when to not dogmatically follow rules
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Post Post #1034 (ISO) » Mon Jan 11, 2021 7:08 pm

Post by Gamma Emerald »

Y’all two need to read Hayker’s ISO once the flip happens
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Post Post #1035 (ISO) » Mon Jan 11, 2021 7:09 pm

Post by northsidegal »

specifically among other things i think that his end of day votes yesterday were fairly scummy
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Post Post #1036 (ISO) » Mon Jan 11, 2021 7:09 pm

Post by northsidegal »

In post 1034, Gamma Emerald wrote:Y’all two need to read Hayker’s ISO once the flip happens
why
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Post Post #1037 (ISO) » Mon Jan 11, 2021 7:10 pm

Post by Gamma Emerald »

The way Hayker handles Kazyan does not look like scum-scum interaction at all
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Post Post #1038 (ISO) » Mon Jan 11, 2021 7:10 pm

Post by northsidegal »

oh yeah and in case i haven't said anything on the subject yet which i'm not sure if i have i think we're green light on hayker dying today
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Post Post #1039 (ISO) » Mon Jan 11, 2021 7:11 pm

Post by northsidegal »

In post 1037, Gamma Emerald wrote:The way Hayker handles Kazyan does not look like scum-scum interaction at all
point to specifics?
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Post Post #1040 (ISO) » Mon Jan 11, 2021 7:11 pm

Post by Gamma Emerald »

Uhhhh you’re definitely not in the loop rn
Hayker self-hammered
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Post Post #1041 (ISO) » Mon Jan 11, 2021 7:12 pm

Post by unwnd »

In post 1038, northsidegal wrote:oh yeah and in case i haven't said anything on the subject yet which i'm not sure if i have i think we're green light on hayker dying today
He literally self-voted and gave up, I kinda think his mates are just lying low after the fact to avoid spew
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Post Post #1042 (ISO) » Mon Jan 11, 2021 7:15 pm

Post by northsidegal »

so he did

anyways point to specifics on what you're talking about there?
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Post Post #1043 (ISO) » Mon Jan 11, 2021 7:15 pm

Post by Gamma Emerald »

These two posts make me very confident Kazyan is town upon Hayker’s scumflip
In post 652, Hayker wrote:I still very much feel elements is scum, since Friday he has asked for support on two wagons, supported another, and then a silent vote on Alchemist. One of the votes is basicslly asking dann is he'd like to wagon with him. This seems to be an empty persuit for now.

Of the current wagons, i like penguins Iso a bit more every time I read the posts. My biggest sus, elements, has pushed the alchemist wagon several times heavily. I also think Kazyan played rather nervously when the pressure was on them, and I'd like to know why.
vote:kazyan
The way Hayker talks about his elements scum read so much to subvert that with a Kazyan vote that’s only justified in the last line of the post tells me Hayker is doing the “push a buddy vote a townie” play, which makes Kazyan town
In post 668, Hayker wrote:
In post 664, Kazyan wrote:I mean, sure, but I still don't get why that makes me scum.

Hammer is in hand, but I'm gonna listen to another post or two from NPOM in case he talks us down.

Traditionally we wait for a role claim⁹⁸
This seems a weird thing to post for a buddy, especially since daytalk is unencrypted
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Post Post #1044 (ISO) » Mon Jan 11, 2021 7:17 pm

Post by northsidegal »

oh man this is annoying, i get no quality dann time (probably)

@datisi how much bribe money for you to "forget" to check the thread for a day or so
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Post Post #1045 (ISO) » Mon Jan 11, 2021 7:17 pm

Post by Gamma Emerald »

I also think PZ is obvtown because of how hard Hayker tried to push him
But I’m gonna let y’all read for that one since I already spelled one out and the PZ point should be super-obvious
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Post Post #1046 (ISO) » Mon Jan 11, 2021 7:17 pm

Post by unwnd »

I actually don't mind that thought from you

Expand on elements a bit more? Is it just associative?
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Post Post #1047 (ISO) » Mon Jan 11, 2021 7:18 pm

Post by Dannflor »

In post 1025, northsidegal wrote:'m not sure how much an agar (assuming that penguin was the vig shot, which seems at the moment a decent assumption) kill makes sense with zito / hayker scum.
Yeah I'm pretty down on my "Papa Zito is Hayker's scum buddy" theory now

Mostly I was freaking at how quiet the game was and then Zito seemed to be the only one interacting with Hayker at all who I'd figured was caught scum

but I don't super feel like this is a game in which scum are being especially pro-active
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Post Post #1048 (ISO) » Mon Jan 11, 2021 7:18 pm

Post by Dannflor »

In post 1044, northsidegal wrote:oh man this is annoying, i get no quality dann time (probably)

@datisi how much bribe money for you to "forget" to check the thread for a day or so
I'm here but I can't promise quality
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Post Post #1049 (ISO) » Mon Jan 11, 2021 7:18 pm

Post by northsidegal »

In post 1043, Gamma Emerald wrote:The way Hayker talks about his elements scum read so much to subvert that with a Kazyan vote that’s only justified in the last line of the post tells me Hayker is doing the “push a buddy vote a townie” play, which makes Kazyan town
so you're confident in elements being scum?
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