DittoIn post 2949, Datisi wrote:next time i roll town in a game w you, i'm not even gonna bother reading your postsIn post 2948, VP Baltar wrote:If we are both town, I think it would be impossible for us to ever survive very long together haha
if we're both alive past n2, you're scum, ez game
ohhhhhhh i kept thinking it was too townsidedIn post 2953, callforjudgement wrote:Just for the record: I think the wrong version of the setup got run by mistake, we removed the Town Roleblocker during review. However, it ended up having no real impact on the game (with the RB dying N1 and roleblocking a player who took no action).
If people have feedback / complaints / comments about the setup, I'd be interested to hear them.
ez busIn post 2947, VP Baltar wrote:Well that's an autocorrect from NKedIn post 2945, VP Baltar wrote:Naked
i'm interested in what the review thread looks likeIn post 2958, mastina wrote:Hi I reviewed this game.
In post 2959, Sirius9121 wrote:i'm interested in what the review thread looks likeIn post 2958, mastina wrote:Hi I reviewed this game.
In post 2, callforjudgement wrote:I'm worried about potential swing to Town if the Strongman dies early (but I think the scum are clued in that it's an important role). The slot I'm least attached to is the Roleblocker.
In post 3, mastina wrote:I can see the swing concern in both side's powers being incredibly strong--I'm of the opinion tho that it's definitely not terribly townsided tho. The strongman gives clear counterplay to the doctor AND cop, and technically the town RB, too. The town gets a lot of potential clears (vig, cop, cop inno, doctor, informed townie, as a maximum), but the scum have good counterplay to them in the form of the strongman and the vig being ascetic.
The town roleblocker is a bit of a mixed bag. On the one hand, it fits really well as a scum role and the town doesn't "need" it to still be strong so the town can waste an elimination on it, but on the other hand, if the town is smart enough to deduce that the strongman + rb vs doc makes less sense than strongman vs doc+rb, it could potentially be a potential sixth clear.
I believe the former (town seeing it as a scum role) is more likely than the latter (town seeing it as a town role), but I will say that in the event of the latter, unless scum play perfectly, the town probably crushes the scum tho.
Basically, what I mean here is:
The cop is incredibly unlikely to be eliminated. It's theoretically possible with a town not giving them a chance to claim or disbelieving it as a scumclaim meant to buy time, but in nine games out of ten, the cop probably isn't eliminated. If the cop gets their investigation off (which they will unless scum kill the cop N1 and/or strongman kill the cop), they have a definitive inno/guilty to give the town an edge and are likely to be believed.
The vig, the moment they shoot, becomes conftown due to a second death during the night (barring the town RB/Doctors stopping the scum/vig kill, which they're unlikely to do--most vigs will shoot N1 and quite a lot of strongmen will use their shot N1 so two kills N1 is quite likely and the town stopping town killing is less likely because in this case the only way it happens is if the doctor and vig target the same player which almost never happens).
The doctor, and potentially the roleblocker, become conftown due to the information that the scum have a strongman.
And the informed townie becomes conftown due to outing that there is a scum strongman.
While I feel like the scum can handle these roles pretty well, in the event that they're all seen as town and cannot be eliminated quickly enough, the town will win.
Overall, I'd say as-is it's probably ~58-42 town-scum, higher for the town if they identify the rb as town, lower for the town if they do not. So passable, but presumably townsided if the town plays remotely above average.
Cutting the town roleblocker wouldn't really remove the swing, but it'd help limit the extreme swing in the town's favor; my estimate would be more in the ~50-50 range without the town roleblocker. (All the town PRs when claiming will be seen as town, but they probably would be anyway. All the town's PRs are fairly strong and give an edge, but have notable counterplay from their own modifiers and the scum strongman.)
In post 4, callforjudgement wrote:In theory, of course, the informed townie shouldn't be seen as confirmed town, e.g. in a different setup, an all-vanilla scumteam could fakeclaim Informed that scum have a Strongman, and this would be hard to disprove. I agree that it probably will be in practice, though.
If you think that this is balanced without the Roleblocker, I'd be happy to try to run that:
Town N2 Bulletproof N2 Cop
Town Ascetic 1-shot Vigilante
Town Doctor
Informed Townie ("One player has the role 'Mafia 1-Shot Strongman'.")
6 VT
Mafia 1-Shot Strongman
2 Mafia Goon
I'm a little worried that town's power is nowtoodependent on town figuring out that all the power role claims are town (relying on the fact that scum don't have much that they can safely fakeclaim). I agree, though, that in the current meta, you'd expect scum to lose the claiming battle with town in a setup like this one. Town aren't fully dependent on that, though; their Cop check hardly relies on setup speculation at all, and part of their power comes from the possibility to stop a nightkill and get back onto odds. So even if the town ends up being outclaimed by the scum, they don't end uptoofar behind in the nightplay (in particular, if the town turns out to be unusually good at dayplay but unusually bad at nightplay, I think they still have a fair chance to win through scumhunting).
I also don't mind if the setup turns out mildly scumsided (as long as it isn't greatly scumsided), which is another reason to run it without the Roleblocker.
This, about the original setup which apparently was erroneously run and how we revised it to the finalized setup that was apparently not run.
