Mini Normal 2209: Musicals II [Endgame]

[InsidiousLemons]

why do you think there has to be an additional PR beyond friendly neighbour?

[UNOwen]

The point - which I think is pretty clear from the original post - is that it would be the easy thing to do for a scum-Anya to stay on my wagon, which looked at the time more likely to gain momentum than N_M. Scum like easy ways to progress wagons on town that don't endanger their credibility. Anya actively opting for a more difficult choice was a strong pro-town indicator, and that was true even before we knew N_M's alignment. And now, when talking about that post retrospectively, I can just use "not N_M's partner" and "scum" interchangeably because of course I can.

This feels word-twisty.

I got that point, it's that I disagree the N_M wagon would have been that much more difficult for Anya than just staying on your wagon. Only Italiano was actively against it and in general "this is hard, let's policy" is a reasonable place for scum to hide. Obviously post flip it's a very strong argument but for the time it was posted I wonder if her switch was as valid a reason to town read Anya as you claimed.

[UNOwen]

i

do

think you're the most likely, but it was also a genuine question. i don't really like how careful you're being with the answer.

Well that's disappointing. On the second point: why?

I'm VT.

[InsidiousLemons]

i

do

think you're the most likely, but it was also a genuine question. i don't really like how careful you're being with the answer.

Well that's disappointing. On the second point: why?

I'm VT.

saying "educated guess" doesn't actually answer the question of

why

you thought i would be on your side, and adding "unless you're being coy?" bounces it back to me without taking the risk of having to give an answer i may not believe. it makes me wonder if the real answer may be "because i thought i had you in my pocket."

Obviously post flip it's a very strong argument but for the time it was posted I wonder if her switch was as valid a reason to town read Anya as you claimed.

what does scum!CDB stand to gain by faking a townread on anya?

[Anya]

also vt strange happenings in the mansion tonight

I look forward to CDB's catch up. He's currently the player I'm most suspicious of, mainly because of this:

Anya so quickly moving from the vote on me to N_M feels likely town. I would expect scum in her position to see where the wagon on me went because it absolutely looked like the most likely thing to come to fruition at that stage and I don't think anyone would have given her any grief for staying on me.

This is presumably his justification for Anya not being partners with N_M. Unless Anya has a dark history of ruthlessly bussing her teammates then I agree it makes her very likely to be town but I'm not sure how this conclusion is reached before we knew N_M's alignment? At that point it was possible from CDB's perspective that Anya was switching from one town wagon to another, which doesn't seem particularly unlikely behaviour from scum.

this was a good snack treeowen make more of these nachos if you're town

[UNOwen]

saying "educated guess" doesn't actually answer the question of

why

you thought i would be on your side

True. I thought you would be a PR with some sort of clear on me, and was trying to look wise by preempting it.

what does scum!CDB stand to gain by faking a townread on anya?

At that point the execution was only going to be him or N_M. N_M's execution would look very good for Anya, so it's possible he was trying to get ahead of the game by having a town read that was about to become universal. Scum need to fake opinions occasionally anyway, I definitely don't see a downside to it.

[Anya]

This isn't about me looking for sympathy. I'm not trying to say that me acknowledging that I don't look great makes me town. (And if anyone were actively arguing for that in this thread, I'd say as much to them.) I'm saying that it makes me aware that I'm the obvious choice if people want to Note Vote For Not_Mafia, a viewpoint most actively espoused by ItalianoVD but which was unlikely to be limited to him. Generally speaking, a lot of people have a real resistance to policy executions, and that's more or less what this is.

In those circumstances, me getting voted is as likely as people defaulting to N_M,

and I clearly knew that

. It's not opportunistic behaviour if it doesn't improve my position. I'm not gaining any advantage by putting my vote "where it will be scrutinised the least" if I'm already staring down the barrel of scrutiny,

especially

when that scrutiny is coming for being low-effort.

If I were scum with N_M then my play in this game would be so anti-wincon that I think I would have just replaced out from the sheer shame of it. 'Shrug, no idea where to go, guess I'll just whine and policy my partner' is a straight-up losing play in that scenario.

(But if N_M flips scum and you want to execute me for it then, sure, whatever, 1-for-1 trades are good)

can you talk about these posts

i find the second one a little weird and the third very weird

UNVOTE:

[Anya]

It's the safest non participation play, putting your vote in a safe spot early.

This all just reads as scum doing what they think town would do. It's hard to get reads on people when you know they're all town.

If NM flips scum I'm looking here for CDB/NM scumteam

hang on a second here this is why the box was ripped to shreds

VOTE: channelbird

[T3]

Fn alone vs Mafia Motion Detector and some other scum is definitely very scumsided.

[InsidiousLemons]

Fn alone vs Mafia Motion Detector and some other scum is definitely very scumsided.

mmm i dunno about this. 7v2 mountainous is probably slightly scumsided, add in a FN for town and an essentially useless motion detector for scum and i think it's decently balanced. i could be wrong though

[T3]

Ah, true.

[InsidiousLemons]

Eyeballing the thread extremely quickly, it seems to me like T3 kind of woke up after the N_M death in a way that makes me wonder if it's an 'oh shit, I have to actually try' situation, but I won't be voting before reading more properly.

@cdb can i get an update on your t3 read after you're done catching up

[T3]

I don't like channels shading of me. What anya said makes sense.

[UNOwen]

I was thinking there would have to be another PR to stay balanced compared to newbie games, but I suppose motion detector is weaker than rolecop for scum.

T3 why did you vote N_M at the end of day 1?

[T3]

I didn't vote for nm earlier because I scumread lemons. I then read through their iso and felt a lot better about the wagon so I voted it.

[InsidiousLemons]

@dannflor can we get a votecount?

i'm almost positive channeldelibird is at e-2 but i don't want to risk hammering if i'm wrong.

cdb, i need to hear more from you before i feel like we can progress with this game.

[UNOwen]

I didn't vote for nm earlier because I scumread lemons. I then read through their iso and felt a lot better about the wagon so I voted it.

I more meant why did you vote for the N_M wagon over CDB?

[T3]

I didn't vote for nm earlier because I scumread lemons. I then read through their iso and felt a lot better about the wagon so I voted it.

I more meant why did you vote for the N_M wagon over CDB?

Honestly I don't remember particularly scumread cdb all that much.

[Dannflor]

VC 3.01

I Believe

votes

[3] Not Voting

:

InsidiousLemons, UNOwen, ChannelDelibird

[1] UNOwen

:

T3

[1] ChannelDelibird

:

Anya

With 5 alive, it takes 3 to eliminate

The Day 3 deadline is in

: (expired on 2021-06-12 11:07:34)

Mod Notes

:

[InsidiousLemons]

VOTE: channeldelibird

E-1

cdb come back and catch up it's been days

[T3]

VOTE: channel
gg.

[T3]

Possibly?

[InsidiousLemons]

if cdb flips town here that was a scumslip lol

why the hell would you do that

[T3]

He's in thepoe.

[T3]

Joke/reaction test