Mini Normal 2218 | FIA WRC | Endgame

[Salsabil Faria]

Sigh!

UNVOTE: T3

VOTE: Pavowski

[Seanzie]

Dwlee, I'm curious, apart from me, who do you think could be scum?

Idk Lucifer/pav/Galaxis/salsa?/t3

Lmao, do you have any reads other than me?

Everyone else at least townlean. What's wrong with thinking any of those people could be scum?

Nothing, it's just interesting that you don't have even one of them just slightly higher on your possibilities list

Nothing, it's just interesting that you don't have even one of them just slightly higher on your possibilities list

What?

Read this interaction, Seanzie, then with a straight face tell me Zyla is your top town read.

I agree it is an awkward interaction, but I don't see it as necessarily scummy. Idk Zyla as a player, but them asking you if you have any reads other than them right after you listed scum suspects seems weird in a way that I can't attribute as being AI. Like, what is the scum motive there? It looks like they're just confused. If I had to prescribe scumminess, I'd say they were nervous and just straight-up flubbed, but again that is IF I had to prescribe it, I don't see anything that truly suggests that. How are you interpreting that interaction?

Aside from this, what other things do you find scummy there? I didn't like Zyla's first two posts, but I thought their posts after that looked reasonably good. Since I'm finding most people scummy in this game, the least scummy of the bunch ends up at the top of the list.

[Pavowski]

Sigh!

UNVOTE: T3

VOTE: Pavowski

Well, damn. Was it the joke, or was it agreeing with T3?

[Salsabil Faria]

Sigh!

UNVOTE: T3

VOTE: Pavowski

Well, damn. Was it the joke, or was it agreeing with T3?

For voting you, no. You seem less interested to talk about more serious game-related content.

About the

T3

vote, can't talk about.

[Dwlee99]

I agree it is an awkward interaction, but I don't see it as necessarily scummy. Idk Zyla as a player, but them asking you if you have any reads other than them right after you listed scum suspects seems weird in a way that I can't attribute as being AI. Like, what is the scum motive there? It looks like they're just confused. If I had to prescribe scumminess, I'd say they were nervous and just straight-up flubbed, but again that is IF I had to prescribe it, I don't see anything that truly suggests that. How are you interpreting that interaction?

Aside from this, what other things do you find scummy there? I didn't like Zyla's first two posts, but I thought their posts after that looked reasonably good. Since I'm finding most people scummy in this game, the least scummy of the bunch ends up at the top of the list.

She was trying to shade me for my scum pool being "too big" it looks like and also just completely flubbed out of there when I questioned what she was trying to say. Like what does "it's just interesting that you don't have even one of them just slightly higher on your possibilities list" mean? I didn't put them in any real order, and I obviously think she is the scummiest so her comment doesn't make sense.

The other things I found scummy were that her first reads list had me as scum for very bad reasons, including missing the next post in the thread where I had explained something. She also accused me of OMGUSing her and then OMGUS'd me but only after she remembered she was supposed to vote by the vote count.

[Seanzie]

I agree it is an awkward interaction, but I don't see it as necessarily scummy. Idk Zyla as a player, but them asking you if you have any reads other than them right after you listed scum suspects seems weird in a way that I can't attribute as being AI. Like, what is the scum motive there? It looks like they're just confused. If I had to prescribe scumminess, I'd say they were nervous and just straight-up flubbed, but again that is IF I had to prescribe it, I don't see anything that truly suggests that. How are you interpreting that interaction?

Aside from this, what other things do you find scummy there? I didn't like Zyla's first two posts, but I thought their posts after that looked reasonably good. Since I'm finding most people scummy in this game, the least scummy of the bunch ends up at the top of the list.

She was trying to shade me for my scum pool being "too big" it looks like

and also just completely flubbed out of there when I questioned what she was trying to say. Like what does "it's just interesting that you don't have even one of them just slightly higher on your possibilities list" mean? I didn't put them in any real order, and I obviously think she is the scummiest so her comment doesn't make sense.

The other things I found scummy were that

her first reads list had me as scum for very bad reasons, including missing the next post in the thread where I had explained something.

She also accused me of OMGUSing her and then OMGUS'd me but only after she remembered she was supposed to vote by the vote count.

I don't see her posts that way, however I agree that her not answering your follow-up question leaves it quite ambiguous in a bad way.

I disagree with this. Her thoughts on you looked quite good IMO. I think your posts involving Pavowski were bad, and her questioning you about it was reasonable. You seem stuck on the idea that she didn't quote a specific post that you wanted her to quote. Sure, she probably should have, but considering that you felt the need to immediately clarify your "bad ISO" post, maybe that was because you also realized it looked scummy?

She voiced a scumread on you, then you started pushing her about it. I don't necessarily think your push was purely OMGUS, but I can see how she could see it that way. The vote count thing is NAI, I pretty much always reconsider where my vote is when I see a VC, so I don't see that as a valid reason to suspect her.

Looking through her ISO, I do notice more reactionary content than I remember originally, so I will give that as a strike against her. Your points have not swayed me much though.

One thing I do like from you is that you had relatively nuanced reasons for your read there. One thing I don't like from you is that most of your case does seem to be OMGUS. Her scumread on you is what set you off, her not giving you credit for a post you made, you push as scummy. You interpret her comment as saying you have too many scumreads when it doesn't really say that.

Can you do a trustfall on her?

[Zyla]

Nothing, it's just interesting that you don't have even one of them just slightly higher on your possibilities list

What?

It seems odd to me that apparently you view all 5 of those as equally scummy

Idk Lucifer/pav/Galaxis/salsa?/t3

All LHF players

Strong players can't be scum? Or you're scared to face them?

What's LHF?

I agree it is an awkward interaction, but I don't see it as necessarily scummy. Idk Zyla as a player, but them asking you if you have any reads other than them right after you listed scum suspects seems weird in a way that I can't attribute as being AI. Like, what is the scum motive there? It looks like they're just confused. If I had to prescribe scumminess, I'd say they were nervous and just straight-up flubbed, but again that is IF I had to prescribe it, I don't see anything that truly suggests that. How are you interpreting that interaction?

Aside from this, what other things do you find scummy there? I didn't like Zyla's first two posts, but I thought their posts after that looked reasonably good. Since I'm finding most people scummy in this game, the least scummy of the bunch ends up at the top of the list.

She was trying to shade me for my scum pool being "too big" it looks like and also just completely flubbed out of there when I questioned what she was trying to say. Like what does "it's just interesting that you don't have even one of them just slightly higher on your possibilities list" mean? I didn't put them in any real order, and I obviously think she is the scummiest so her comment doesn't make sense.

The other things I found scummy were that her first reads list had me as scum for very bad reasons, including missing the next post in the thread where I had explained something. She also accused me of OMGUSing her and then OMGUS'd me but only after she remembered she was supposed to vote by the vote count.

I can understand having a large scum pool, after all, with possible exceptions for power role stuff, everyone in this game except for me could be town. I just don't follow how you can have over a third of the game as equally scummy.
I didn't 'miss the next post', I just didn't feel that it was sufficient, so I asked you to explain more
Also, my vote on you wasn't OMGUS, I was making a case on you, and the way you were reacting to it wasn't making me feel you were town. The vote count reminded me that I hadn't yet switched my vote, which I had been planning to do after I finished going through ISOs

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I'm not sure why someone has to replace Salsa for her to come to the top half of your list @Seanzie? Seems like you have a problem narrowing your poe if that's something necessary to you

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Dwlee, I'm curious, apart from me, who do you think could be scum?

Idk Lucifer/pav/Galaxis/salsa?/t3

Lmao, do you have any reads other than me?

Everyone else at least townlean. What's wrong with thinking any of those people could be scum?

Nothing, it's just interesting that you don't have even one of them just slightly higher on your possibilities list

Nothing, it's just interesting that you don't have even one of them just slightly higher on your possibilities list

What?

Read this interaction, Seanzie, then with a straight face tell me Zyla is your top town read.

I agree it is an awkward interaction, but I don't see it as necessarily scummy. Idk Zyla as a player, but them asking you if you have any reads other than them right after you listed scum suspects seems weird in a way that I can't attribute as being AI. Like, what is the scum motive there? It looks like they're just confused. If I had to prescribe scumminess, I'd say they were nervous and just straight-up flubbed, but again that is IF I had to prescribe it, I don't see anything that truly suggests that. How are you interpreting that interaction?

Aside from this, what other things do you find scummy there? I didn't like Zyla's first two posts, but I thought their posts after that looked reasonably good. Since I'm finding most people scummy in this game, the least scummy of the bunch ends up at the top of the list.

"Reasonably good" is the top of your list? Above taco?

[Dwlee99]

I don't see her posts that way, however I agree that her not answering your follow-up question leaves it quite ambiguous in a bad way.

Kinda still seems like that given her followup below your post

I disagree with this. Her thoughts on you looked quite good IMO. I think your posts involving Pavowski were bad, and her questioning you about it was reasonable. You seem stuck on the idea that she didn't quote a specific post that you wanted her to quote. Sure, she probably should have, but considering that you felt the need to immediately clarify your "bad ISO" post, maybe that was because you also realized it looked scummy?

I clarified because I was messing around and being vague rather than direct and I figured it was probably better to just say what about the two posts I didn't like. I feel like Zyla didn't actually engage with the reasons I provided and wants to stick it under "oh they were jokes" when my reasoning was more than about that.

She voiced a scumread on you, then you started pushing her about it. I don't necessarily think your push was purely OMGUS, but I can see how she could see it that way. The vote count thing is NAI, I pretty much always reconsider where my vote is when I see a VC, so I don't see that as a valid reason to suspect her.

I don't see how you can think she could see it that way. (Jeez that was tied together) My push isn't because she thinks I'm scum, it's cause she thinks I'm scum for bad reasons.

Looking through her ISO, I do notice more reactionary content than I remember originally, so I will give that as a strike against her. Your points have not swayed me much though

One thing I do like from you is that you had relatively nuanced reasons for your read there. One thing I don't like from you is that most of your case does seem to be OMGUS. Her scumread on you is what set you off, her not giving you credit for a post you made, you push as scummy. You interpret her comment as saying you have too many scumreads when it doesn't really say that.

It isn't that she didn't give me credit it's that she ignored it when reasoning about pavo

Can you do a trustfall on her?

I assume you mean would I go 1 for 1 with her? Yes.

It seems odd to me that apparently you view all 5 of those as equally scummy

I didn't say nor imply nor anything that. You asked who I thought could be scum other than you, I gave you 5 names and even put a question mark next to one. That you think I was saying that I scumread them equally makes me think you weren't really trying to get anything out of your question i.e. you're not trying to sort me i.e you're scum.

I didn't 'miss the next post', I just didn't feel that it was sufficient, so I asked you to explain more
Also, my vote on you wasn't OMGUS, I was making a case on you, and the way you were reacting to it wasn't making me feel you were town. The vote count reminded me that I hadn't yet switched my vote, which I had been planning to do after I finished going through ISOs

You didn't ask me to explain more.

[Titus]

Does anyone have any major gripes with anyone above the magic clear line?

Zyla and Galaxis

[Seanzie]

I'm not sure why someone has to replace Salsa for her to come to the top half of your list @Seanzie? Seems like you have a problem narrowing your poe if that's something necessary to you

The magical clear line doesn't move. With 13 players, a list of 7 townies wins (assuming no unexpected KP), so the magical clear line always has 7 people above it and 6 below it. Thus, if Salsabil were to move above it, someone would necessarily need to move below it.

[Galaxis]

VOTE: Zyla

I dont like you here. You dont vibe well with me '~'

[Titus]

@Zyla, LHF is low hanging fruit.

All, can we seriously wagon somebody?

[Seanzie]

Dwlee, I'm curious, apart from me, who do you think could be scum?

Idk Lucifer/pav/Galaxis/salsa?/t3

Lmao, do you have any reads other than me?

Everyone else at least townlean. What's wrong with thinking any of those people could be scum?

Nothing, it's just interesting that you don't have even one of them just slightly higher on your possibilities list

Nothing, it's just interesting that you don't have even one of them just slightly higher on your possibilities list

What?

Read this interaction, Seanzie, then with a straight face tell me Zyla is your top town read.

I agree it is an awkward interaction, but I don't see it as necessarily scummy. Idk Zyla as a player, but them asking you if you have any reads other than them right after you listed scum suspects seems weird in a way that I can't attribute as being AI. Like, what is the scum motive there? It looks like they're just confused. If I had to prescribe scumminess, I'd say they were nervous and just straight-up flubbed, but again that is IF I had to prescribe it, I don't see anything that truly suggests that. How are you interpreting that interaction?

Aside from this, what other things do you find scummy there? I didn't like Zyla's first two posts, but I thought their posts after that looked reasonably good. Since I'm finding most people scummy in this game, the least scummy of the bunch ends up at the top of the list.

"Reasonably good" is the top of your list? Above taco?

Yes. Taco's super reactionary OMGUS style is something I am inherently suspicious of, because it is a style that relatively good wolves can hide behind. Also, Taco seems quite a bit different than the last game I played with them where they were town (I was scum, but it was a multiball game, so I could still judge others relatively well as I only had TMI on my own teammates). Granted, they had a claim that game that made them very likely town, so idk if the differences are AI. Either way, I am very resistant to the idea of having Taco on the top of my list as I do not necessarily trust them.

As I've said, I'm honestly having a hard time finding towny things about people this game, whereas I can point out scummy stuff on pretty much everyone right now, so my list is less "this person is up there because they're super towny", and more "this person is up there because they aren't as scummy as the others".

[Galaxis]

Morning thoughts - a few movements. In particular Shrek has gone up a touch, where Tris and Ssbm have gone down a bit. I also added the magic clear line*.

Zyla

T3
Taco Hemingway

Titus

Galaxis
Shrek

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

LuciferMorningStar

Dwlee99
tris
Pavowski

ssbm_Kyouko
Salsabil Faria

Seanzie

*For the record, the magic clear line does not in itself say anything about people above and below it. Instead, it is just the line that IF we went into auto right now based on this list, we would win as long as everyone above the line is clear

Does anyone have any major gripes with anyone above the magic clear line?

Does anyone have strong town feelings for anyone below the magic clear line?

I dont understand this? What does this mean?

What does auto mean here??

I am confused >~<

[Titus]

Can someone enlighten me as to who Taco is?

I want to know so I can know how best to work with them?

[Dwlee99]

I can understand having a large scum pool, after all, with possible exceptions for power role stuff,

everyone in this game except for me could be town

Can someone enlighten me as to who Taco is?

I want to know so I can know how best to work with them?

Taco is Koba

[Seanzie]

I don't see her posts that way, however I agree that her not answering your follow-up question leaves it quite ambiguous in a bad way.

Kinda still seems like that given her followup below your post

Eh, I mean it literally isn't what she said, but her response was perhaps worse. Idk why she is assuming you were saying that all of those reads were exactly equal.

She voiced a scumread on you, then you started pushing her about it. I don't necessarily think your push was purely OMGUS, but I can see how she could see it that way. The vote count thing is NAI, I pretty much always reconsider where my vote is when I see a VC, so I don't see that as a valid reason to suspect her.

I don't see how you can think she could see it that way. (Jeez that was tied together) My push isn't because she thinks I'm scum, it's cause she thinks I'm scum for bad reasons.

Eh, from an impartial observer, I think your posts could be interpreted as OMGUS. I'm not saying that they are just that, but I stand by my earlier point that I could easily see her thinking that.

Can you do a trustfall on her?

I assume you mean would I go 1 for 1 with her? Yes.

No, a trustfall is when you try to find something that could indicate a person is town even if you find them scummy. I'm not saying you need to find something that flips your read around, but could you give one positive point on that slot, or do you think there is nothing redeeming about Zyla in this game?

[Galaxis]

I'm not sure why someone has to replace Salsa for her to come to the top half of your list @Seanzie? Seems like you have a problem narrowing your poe if that's something necessary to you

The magical clear line doesn't move. With 13 players, a list of 7 townies wins (assuming no unexpected KP), so the magical clear line always has 7 people above it and 6 below it. Thus, if Salsabil were to move above it, someone would necessarily need to move below it.

This is confusing to me. What does the magical clear line mean?

[Seanzie]

Morning thoughts - a few movements. In particular Shrek has gone up a touch, where Tris and Ssbm have gone down a bit. I also added the magic clear line*.

Zyla

T3
Taco Hemingway

Titus

Galaxis
Shrek

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

LuciferMorningStar

Dwlee99
tris
Pavowski

ssbm_Kyouko
Salsabil Faria

Seanzie

*For the record, the magic clear line does not in itself say anything about people above and below it. Instead, it is just the line that IF we went into auto right now based on this list, we would win as long as everyone above the line is clear

Does anyone have any major gripes with anyone above the magic clear line?

Does anyone have strong town feelings for anyone below the magic clear line?

I dont understand this? What does this mean?

What does auto mean here??

I am confused >~<

Auto means locking in the elim choices for the rest of the game regardless of what happens. So like, if we went into auto with this list, we would chop (assuming these people are all still alive), Salsabil D1, then Ssbm D2, then Pavowski D3, then Tris D4, then Dwlee D5, then Lucifer D6. For the record, I am NOT suggesting that we go on auto (and we never should), just saying that the line is where it is at because the number of names below it are exactly how many we need in a correct PoE to win on auto.

[Dwlee99]

No, a trustfall is when you try to find something that could indicate a person is town even if you find them scummy. I'm not saying you need to find something that flips your read around, but could you give one positive point on that slot, or do you think there is nothing redeeming about Zyla in this game?

No, I don't think any of her posts indicate genuinely trying to solve the game. Her reads are weak sauce. The only other thing she has done other than give her reads is her interactions with me which you already know I don't like.

[Seanzie]

I'm not sure why someone has to replace Salsa for her to come to the top half of your list @Seanzie? Seems like you have a problem narrowing your poe if that's something necessary to you

The magical clear line doesn't move. With 13 players, a list of 7 townies wins (assuming no unexpected KP), so the magical clear line always has 7 people above it and 6 below it. Thus, if Salsabil were to move above it, someone would necessarily need to move below it.

This is confusing to me. What does the magical clear line mean?

In a game of 13 players, assuming no extra KP, if you can give a list of 7 names, and everyone agrees to NEVER yeet those 7 names, IF those 7 names are all town, town is guaranteed to win.

In a game of 13 players, assuming no extra KP, if you give a list of 6 names, and everyone agrees to NEVER yeet those 6 names, even IF those 6 names are all town, town could still lose.

So, in a game with 13 people, 7 is the magic clear number, i.e. the smallest number such that if we put 7 people above that line, and they are all town, the PoE we get below it is winning (assuming no extra KP).

Note: while my name is at the bottom of the list, I am counting myself as above the line, giving the 7 people above the line.

[Seanzie]

No, a trustfall is when you try to find something that could indicate a person is town even if you find them scummy. I'm not saying you need to find something that flips your read around, but could you give one positive point on that slot, or do you think there is nothing redeeming about Zyla in this game?

No, I don't think any of her posts indicate genuinely trying to solve the game. Her reads are weak sauce. The only other thing she has done other than give her reads is her interactions with me which you already know I don't like.

Even the tunneliest of town can give a trustfall on any slot with content. Please try again. It doesn't have to be super strong, but what is ONE reason why she might be town?

Note: me asking you to do a trustfall isn't about reading her, it is about reading you.

[Dwlee99]

I skimmed her ISO and didn't find anything the first time but I guess I can do it again