Mini Normal 2223 | Town Wins!

[ssbm_Kyouko]

mods asleep steal pagetops

[Dwlee99]

I know it is in his signature but if he is town I'm down to just policy eliminate him every game I'm in.

[Salsabil Faria]

Alright, we got

something

out of Salsa/Marci toward the end at least. I still have the feeling this is going to flip town though.

VOTE: N_M

That we aren’t the vig scum!you desperately looking for to nk??? You can never know you know!

[Salsabil Faria]

I know it is in his signature but if he is town I'm down to just policy eliminate him every game I'm in.

Most of the time it’s policy elimination for him though...
Btw, @

Mod

, how much time we have? And a VC please....

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Deadline expired 1h43m ago, and I hammered N_M about 45 minutes before deadline

[Dwlee99]

There is still 22 hours of deadline.

[Salsabil Faria]

Guys, I think

ssbm

is the deep wolf, keeping me alive today is the best strategy for scum!her to achieve my miselimination tomorrow...

[Salsabil Faria]

There is still 22 hours of deadline.

The hammer is happened?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Oh I thought today was the last day...

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Damn it

[Salsabil Faria]

VOTE: salsa

The hammer don't happen yet ig...

UNVOTE: Not_Mafia

VOTE: ssbm

[MathBlade]

Responses in bold and underline because mobile

Individual reads:

Me
(for math)
Conftown people

Math/Kyo

Salsa/Marci

NM

Together reads: my gut is telling me NM + a deep wolf, but obviously this doesn't match with the individual reads in a quantifiable way. Might be as simple as NM + one of Marci/salsa.

I don't really think that Marci and salsa are scum together though? Based on what I've seen?

Individual reads indicate Salsa and Marci in the same tier as scumreads above N_M. Together reads says Marci and Salsa are no scum together, Based on

what Dwlee has seen

.

Unless deepwolf I feel okay about Kyo and Mathblade. My vibe tells me salsa and Marci aren't both scum at the very least.

That leaves you

This is the reason that N_M goes down to the bottom of the readslist - because Salsa and Marci are not scum together. It's not a good reason, so I questioned Dwlee about his reasoning, and he's dancing around giving a concrete reason to why they are not scum together. Just "vibes", but below we will see what "vibes" means in context.

I don’t see why it’s not a good reason. I have formed reads based on who is a compatible read a lot of times. Vibes can be a thing.

Green is my inserts into the below

Why are Marci and Salsa not scum together? I thought you just pointed out at the start of this Day it makes sense for them to be scum together because when Salsa suspected either you or Marci she voted you?

There's some credibility to it, sure, but I don't really buy it. Vibes don't match

This is where he brings up Vibes. I quote reply to this post and ask if N_M's vibes match with anyone. It is clear we are talking about the same "vibes" from above

Do N_M's vibes match with anyone?

Given that he has hardly posted? Yea. I could see him teamed with you, Marci, or Salsa.

Dwlee says "yea", implying that the same type of vibes that make Marci and Salsa not teamed, are present between N_M and {myself, Marci, and Salsa}, because any of us can be his partner in Dwlee's eyes. "Vibes" can be translated to teammate equity here, and if we're talking about the same vibes as he was originally saying make Salsa and Marci unlikely partners, he's talking about negative equity. This is what I point out in the next reply.

So by "Vibes don't match", you aren't even talking about vibes... you're talking about teammate equity. That is something that can be quantified. Show me, with evidence, the posts that indicate negative equity between salsa and marci.

Kyo if you're gonna call me scummy for using a word/phrase that perfectly describes how you said I meta townread DGB, I don't care to have this conversation.

Titus did literally no solving. That is why she was my priority at that point in the game. I found DGB scummy only in a meta sense, and that is why I didn't vote there.

Vibes don't match clearly meant teammate vibes, and no, vibes can't be quantified

. They just don't seem to both be evil.

Now he is saying it meant teammate vibes which is somehow different from teammate equity in his eyes? And refusing to quantify what is negative equity between because they're just teammate "vibes", not teammate "equity" (which are clearly, in context of 1783, the same thing). Then he says "they just don't both seem to be evil." This isn't even on the topic of teammate equity anymore, as he doesn't mention "evil together." So now he's slipping he doesn't SR one of them, imo, which is not in line with either the reads he posted earlier today, or the reasoning for voting N_M.

The read of this argument becomes logically inconsistent as you have replaced vibes with teammate equity. Vibes is not teammate equity though. So you’ve rewritten Dwlee’s posts and then “destroyed” something Dwlee never said. So the rest of this post becomes …So? You’re not responding to what Dwlee’s posts are you’re responding through a thick layer of accidental mistranslation if town and purposeful if scum. Vibes does not translate into another concept

[MathBlade]

Kyo if you're gonna call me scummy for using a word/phrase that perfectly describes how you said I meta townread DGB, I don't care to have this conversation

I've caught scum with this before. I don't think it's natural language coming from you and it looks worse to me that you're brushing it off.

And if you want to continue to split hairs, I didn't say

you townread DGB for meta reasons

. I said

you used meta as a reason not to vote it, rather than examining the veracity of my case on DGB

. It's a subtle difference between "townreading" and "not scumreading", but the way you leap from "not scumreading" -

over

my point on examining DGB's ISO through the lens of the case in good faith - to the subtly different "townreading", and then say my point is "divorced from" your argument indicates to me that I'm onto something here and you're blowing a subtle difference out of proportion with strong languaging that you don't normally use on site.

It's not only that you're slightly misunderstanding a subtlety, but that you're then blowing the part that you misunderstand out of proportion, with unnatural language that you don't normally use,

and ignoring

the clear-cut point that cannot be misunderstood. And I know you understand subtlety, because when you were arguing with Roden earlier, one of your arguments against them was that they were not making a good faith effort to repeat back what you said. What they said was that you wanted to vote me out because I was pushing you. What you wrote was more along the lines of "Kyouko is scummy because she should know that town!me has a problem with his attention span", (from memory, feel free to correct if this is wrong)

VOTE: Kyo
This might be scum. The inattentiveness thing is a very strange thing to push me on and I think town!Kyo knows I sometimes am just like that.

I know vibe checking is punishable by death at this point, but man the vibes on this read feel off. Do you really think Kyouko should go just because she made a push on you?

Uh no and I don't think this is a good faith attempt at repeating back what I said at all.

I didn't repeat anything back. How else am I supposed to interpret your post if your only accusation against Kyouko is "she should know that I don't pay attention"?

You said I voted Kyo for pushing me. If that's your interpretation you're severely misreading what I'm writing or trying to misrep me to make me look scummy.

If town, you mean you’ve gotten lucky and the person happened to be scum.
Some people use phrases more or less than others.
You haven’t demonstrated why this phrase is scummy and the rest of this post follows the idea that a certain phrase is scummy which I don’t subscribe to which again makes the rest of this … So?

If you don’t prove the premises/prior parts I find it very difficult to engage with the rest of the content because it’s flawed.

[T3]

Votecount:

• Not_Mafia (5): MathBlade, geraintm, Dwlee99, Salsabil Faria, ssbm_Kyouko
  Dwlee99 (1): Not_Mafia
  Salsabil Faria (1): ManateeDude

Day 3 will end in (expired on 2021-08-06 08:56:01).
With 8 alive, it takes 5 to eliminate.

Spoiler: Votes Since Last Votecount

Personally I think Marci fits the VCA a lot better.

It explains why the wagon stalled. Marci had a lag vote on DGB she planned to move then boom Kyo wagons DGB out of no where and she can’t move it.

Then the rest of us hurry on with the flash wagon and her partner can’t move.

It’s possible that Marci is town and Kyo is a deep wolf but I think it’s more likely Marci here.

VOTE: Marci

Kyo/you/omo but omo is dead now.

VOTE: Unvote

Damn couple things missing here for sure.

Btw, I think it's

Dwlee

&

Marci

...

VOTE: Dwlee

I'm no longer doubting Math, now when considering Marci's DGB vote. I also think scum!Marci is TMIing her partners in RVS if it's {DGB, Marci, Salsabil}.

Titus was also suspicious of Dwlee/omo as a unit I feel like, though she did associate omo and Math, with omo being more likely. I think it's clear her Babysit was meant to be insurance to kill a scumread in the event of her death. I think scum!Math and scum!Dwlee might have been more careful in case Titus targeted one of them. I don't think the scumteam felt they were at risk of being targeted.

That really leaves 2 of Marci, Salsabil, N_M

Wait, I forget about

Not_Mafia

....

Dwlee

's green flip will show the scumteam of

Marci

&

Not_Mafia

.
I'm more sure about

Marci

now than

Dwlee

(want to consider

Omo

's read here), so I'm switching my vote...

UNVOTE: Dwlee

VOTE: Marci

Salsa > Marci > Kyo (except Kyo gives me the deepwolg heebie jeebies)

Ok,

Dwlee

is scum! Partner is either

Marci

or

Not_Mafia

.

UNVOTE: Marci

VOTE: Dwlee

Final vote of today!

I'll edit the votes since last votecount when I'm not on mobile.

[/quote][/quote]

Spoiler:

VOTE: NM

VOTE: Unvote

I don’t like Dwlee’s naked hop on after having had plenty of time to do a VC or react to cases.

I just can’t tell if this is lazy Dwlee or scum Dwlee. I probably will be busy most of today but will read as I can.

If there is a vigilante or any town killing role I put the odds that "babysitter" is scum north of 80%, regardless of Titus' scummy day play.

VOTE: dwlee

Dwlee/N_M last 2 scum

Ok

Dwlee

, I

think

I can believe you for a short time

UNVOTE: Dwlee

VOTE: Marci

By reading all these, now I think it'll be easier for town to sort scums on melo/elo by eliminating me today.

Marci

is saying right, they are also an easy target, so we both are towns ig.

ssbm

still town to me, that left:

Dwlee

Not_Mafia

Math

You can go for in this order tomorrow.

UNVOTE: Marci

VOTE: Salsabil Faria

VOTE: Salsabil Faria

Sorry Salsa but I always vote self-voters, including myself

I know there’s a lot of words and stuff I am supposed to read since work just ended I am just not feeling it.

I think we should do NM today since he’s not playing. If y’all feel more confident in a read do it. I just don’t.

VOTE: Not Mafia

[/quote]

VOTE: Salsabil Faria

Sorry Salsa but I always vote self-voters, including myself

Thanks for the scum claim, who are you trying to save?
Btw, don't remember if I say this already but I don’t buy your

I can read

geraintm

read, it’s sounded TMI. And at that point, if you could really read them correctly (while they were not active that much iirr), then you

should

read me properly too, because you were the mod in one of my scum games and you played with town!me in several game as both alignment. Yes, I change my play style recently but why scum!me will play like this, what benefit I'm having rn?

TL;DR you're scum!

UNVOTE: Salsabil Faria

VOTE: Not_Mafia

VOTE: geraintm

I always vote self voters

VOTE: geraintm

VOTE: geraintm

VOTE: not mafia

Voting an innocent child....scummy behaviour

VOTE: dwlww

[/quote]

Spoiler:

UNVOTE: Not_Mafia

VOTE: Dwlee

Reason? Top scumread

Hmm...

I just opened all of MathBlade's replaced-into games for the past 2 years. I'd estimate there are about 15 of them but wasn't counting the total.

Every town game, except one, he replaces in calmly (no exclamation points in his intro). There was one exception where he rolled mason, Mini 2179.
In about half of his scum games, (again an estimate, but there were 3 exceptions) he replaces in with an exclamation point in his intro. The exceptions are games where he replaced in later into the game, BooneyToonz XV - post 1395, and mystery box of silver 10 - post 2899, and Calculasia, where he replaced in early, but his intro post is not his normal intro of "hi everyone" or "hi awesome people" + "catching up" or "skimming" or "point me in the right direction". It is a post about how he likes math and doesn't follow his normal pattern when replacing in.

Considering every time he was town he did NOT have an exclamation point except once, and there are many more town than scum games to examine, I'd say the lack of an exclamation point is not AI, but the presence of one is a hard scumtell.
VOTE: MathBlade

Disregard my exclamation point point

VOTE: dwlee

The first time I went through I was looking at Math's whole ego and clicking what looked like Games, then when I went to get quotes I did an advanced search for Author "MathBlade" Return results as "Post Topics" and Search Forums under "Mafia Games" to filter out all the other topics I was sifting through visually the first time.

I've already found 2 towngames in the first 4 or so I opened that have exclamation points, so the presence is not AI after all

VOTE: dwlee

i think

VOTE: N_M

satisfactory dwlee response

VOTE: salsa

VOTE: Salsa

UNVOTE: Dwlee

VOTE: Not_Mafia

@

Marci

! no! one! is! at! E-1! so! you! can! vote! anyone! who! you! want!

Alright, we got

something

out of Salsa/Marci toward the end at least. I still have the feeling this is going to flip town though.

VOTE: N_M

VOTE: salsa

The hammer don't happen yet ig...

UNVOTE: Not_Mafia

VOTE: ssbm

[T3]

Not_Mafia was eliminated. He was a Mafia Goon.
Night 3 starts now and ends in (expired on 2021-08-07 11:48:01).

[T3]

geraintm died in the night. He was a Town Day 3 Innocent Child.

[T3]

Votecount:

• Not voting: All players

Day 4 will end in (expired on 2021-08-14 17:26:01).
With 6 alive, it takes 4 to eliminate.

[geraintm]

Bah, go town...

[MathBlade]

VOTE: ssbm_Kyouko

She attempted to try to peddle Dwlee and Salsa as miselims rather than vote her buddy. I think the case speaks for itself here. I would be shocked if we had a day 5.

[ManateeDude]

MathBlade
Dwlee99
ssbm_Kyouko
ManateeDude
Salsabil Faria
marcistar

hmmmm

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I think Math is town after that. He could just have easily gotten support for Marci for quickhammering on D2, as his point was neither of them should be around for ELO. If Math was scum with N_M he could have pushed Marci instead.

Pedit: You need to consider who else is scum because the game does not end with me.

[MathBlade]

I think Math is town after that. He could just have easily gotten support for Marci for quickhammering on D2, as his point was neither of them should be around for ELO. If Math was scum with N_M he could have pushed Marci instead.

Pedit: You need to consider who else is scum because the game does not end with me.

Then help me do that. If you’re town point me in the right direction. You’re right in that if I was scum I could have taken up any of the other wagons that popped up and didn’t. Imagine this was elo and you and i conf and it was elim or lose. Who goes for you and why?

[Dwlee99]

The one thing giving me pause on is would scum!Kyo be that obvious there? Too scummy to be scum?

[MathBlade]

The one thing giving me pause on is would scum!Kyo be that obvious there? Too scummy to be scum?

I don’t think it’s too scummy to be scum there. Too scummy to be scum would be an outright defense. What Kyo did was continually suggest other people.

[MathBlade]

Spoiler: N_M meta

Lmao, just went to read some N_M games and the first one I open is a nightless micro where he gets hammered on page 1 as VT

Still looking, just thought I'd share.

This is also the extent of her attempting to meta Not Mafia versus say me.

For me she seems to be trying to find anything to scumify me and when it didn’t work she backed off.

It’s more like she’s scum who didn’t like I had her buddy pinned.