Mini Normal 2275: Roguelikes - Day 3: Endgame!

[Fredrick A Campbell]

Fredrick A Campbell's Sixth Unofficial Votecount
Continued from Fredrick A Campbell's Fifth Unofficial Votecount

Eiralox (4): Confidently Wrong, Irrelephant11, Cat Scratch Fever, Loftwing
Loftwing (4): FancyPants, Lowell, MalcolmTucker, Eiralox
kennyk (1): BlueBloodedToffee
MalcolmTucker (1): Shoshin
BlueBloodedTofee (1): Malakittens
FancyPants (1): kennyk
Malakittens (1): Fredrick A Campbell
Confidently Wrong (0):
Lowell (0):
Shoshin (0):
Fredrick A Campbell (0):
Cat Scratch Fever (0):
Irrelephant11 (0):

Not Voting (0):
With 13 in the jury, it takes 7 to find guilty of conspiracy to murder.

Day 1 ends in (expired on 2022-07-04 11:14:00).

[Eiralox]

And one of the largest reasons I was scumreading you is gone, just as I predicted once I noticed that you're probably using null differently and not lying about your reads.

cool.

[Fredrick A Campbell]

Maybe we should threaten to find Malakittens guilty for good.

Note: I'm not condoning a quick conviction(execution) and will go after those responsible should it happen

[Fredrick A Campbell]

When you post double the number of votecounts posted by the moderator...

[Irrelephant11]

I could vote loftwing but I want the silent players to have two competing wagons to take a stance on so I'll sit for now

eiralox I think most players in this playerlist would describe someone as "null" if they see them us unreadable, and when leaning someone town would call them a townread. For example I have 0 people I feel *extremely* confident on but giving reads on who's townier than null and who's scummier than null helps other people read me and sort with me. You don't have to change your use of "null" but if you did I think it would be pro-town since the rest of us would understand you better

[Irrelephant11]

I still think kenny is scum

[MalcolmTucker]

I

did

say that if you are town I don't mind eliminating you anyway, because I find your posts too confusing, and your thought process impenetrable - so we're never going to be able to effectively work together.

yeah again i'm right "Fancy is confused so want Eira dead." what a farce. In what world do you wanna elim an active player who's forming reads and getting things going over Mala, whose done jack squat, or Loft, who's vapid air?

I'm not feeling good about your reasoning here Pants. You're nearing my scumleans.

Just catching up but I don't like this post at all. Inactive/quiet players should not be given a free ride but simply being active and posting a lot is not a valid argument for avoiding suspicion: good mafia players can win by being active and either choking the gamestate or trying to drive it in a direction beneficial to them.

[MalcolmTucker]

I worry some people are confusing Eiralox's abrassive posting style for scum. Not sure scum gets into such a deliberate dogfight with CW here, it's clearly not helped Eiralox and unless they're on a mission to eliminate themselves I fail to see why scum would take such an approach.

Loftwing's vote above is, again, incredibly opportunistic.

My quarrel with Eiralox isn't an emotional one, but a logical one.

My opportunism is due in part because this is the most effective use of my time here. If I am unable to extract information from Mala because most players do not wish to go that way, then is it not in vain to turn the tides of destiny away from where they wish to go? Is it not more reasonable to instead follow them as far as I am willing to go?

I believe you are missing why I am being opportunistic, and are instead calling it out as if it is a bad thing in it of itself.

This isn't a bad post but feels very, very carefully thought-out as a justification for the vote.

Your options here surely aren't just Eiralox/Mala? You could focus on someone else if you wanted to. My concern is you appear to be seeing potentially viable wagons forming and almost instantly jump on them. I don't feel like you're thinking particularly independently here, which is one of my main issues.

[Eiralox]

I

did

say that if you are town I don't mind eliminating you anyway, because I find your posts too confusing, and your thought process impenetrable - so we're never going to be able to effectively work together.

yeah again i'm right "Fancy is confused so want Eira dead." what a farce. In what world do you wanna elim an active player who's forming reads and getting things going over Mala, whose done jack squat, or Loft, who's vapid air?

I'm not feeling good about your reasoning here Pants. You're nearing my scumleans.

Just catching up but I don't like this post at all. Inactive/quiet players should not be given a free ride but simply being active and posting a lot is not a valid argument for avoiding suspicion: good mafia players can win by being active and either choking the gamestate or trying to drive it in a direction beneficial to them.

tru. i coulda phrased that better. my feeling then was that theres scummier stuff than CW's case on me going on so Fancy Pants having problems with my playstyle and being willing to me at -1 mainly for that doesnt look good either way you cut it.


since starting Loftwing dive i feel way better about Fancy pants from a single post. Fred i'm liking for the mala vote and their overall interaction for me.

im continuing loftwing iso, there's scummy vibes, will expoand when can. can also see town! loftwing tho, arguments both ways. right now my thinking is i'm going to vote MalaKittens.

This shift from Loft for one simple reason: I don't like llowel being on Loft. from one post lowell doesnt look good to me at all, and here i add that they were my first gut scum read this game.

[MalcolmTucker]

Fred I seldom townread ppl. I lean. I feel. Later in game once I have data and a feel for whats what im more likely to put trust in others. Im not going to adress ur posts at all. If yall wanna mob me at this point go for it. Im on mobile when power comes back ill offer deeper insight.on loftwing. As a start ; )

Didn't mind the start of this post, I get not TR'ing players too strongly early on, I'm often the same, but the bit about not addressing Fredrick's posts is incredibly scummy. It's the height of scumminess to the point where it just doubly makes me doubt Eiralox actually being scum, because I'm not sure scum approach the game in a way like this.

[Eiralox]

or scum feel. eh i mix this shit up. either way loweel wanting to hammer early was the first thing that ticked me off.

[Eiralox]

Fred I seldom townread ppl. I lean. I feel. Later in game once I have data and a feel for whats what im more likely to put trust in others. Im not going to adress ur posts at all. If yall wanna mob me at this point go for it. Im on mobile when power comes back ill offer deeper insight.on loftwing. As a start ; )

Didn't mind the start of this post, I get not TR'ing players too strongly early on, I'm often the same, but the bit about not addressing Fredrick's posts is incredibly scummy. It's the height of scumminess to the point where it just doubly makes me doubt Eiralox actually being scum, because I'm not sure scum approach the game in a way like this.

i was tired bandying words about with people to little effect, i think ive since adressed fred's points, you can ascertain what they think about my response.

[MalcolmTucker]

Fred I seldom townread ppl. I lean. I feel. Later in game once I have data and a feel for whats what im more likely to put trust in others. Im not going to adress ur posts at all. If yall wanna mob me at this point go for it. Im on mobile when power comes back ill offer deeper insight.on loftwing. As a start ; )

Didn't mind the start of this post, I get not TR'ing players too strongly early on, I'm often the same, but the bit about not addressing Fredrick's posts is incredibly scummy. It's the height of scumminess to the point where it just doubly makes me doubt Eiralox actually being scum, because I'm not sure scum approach the game in a way like this.

i was tired bandying words about with people to little effect, i think ive since adressed fred's points, you can ascertain what they think about my response.

Fair, I was very much posting thoughts out loud as I caught up. I'll maintain my stance from before - despite some heavy doubts in the past few pages - that you are likely town.

[MalcolmTucker]

Mala played a bit like this last time I was in a game with them but at least had a flurry of activity at the start. Wouldn't be averse to running up some votes on the slot though to see how they respond, presuming they don't intend to replace-out.

[MalcolmTucker]

They were town last time, I should add, hence why I don't think their play so far is inherently scummy.

[Eiralox]

Loftwing part 3

Spoiler:

I'll go first then

FancyPants
BBT, Frederick, Malcolm
Shoshin, Malakittens, Lowell, Eiralox
Confidently Wrong, Cat Scratch Fever --- null
Loftwing
kenny

Hmmm I have too many townreads probably

Loftwing/Kunny scumleans by irrel.

I'm caught up. Kenny, Cats, malcolm fine for lynch. fancy begrudgingly town, mala town, irrelephant town, toffee town I guess.

Do you, uh, have any actual reasons for your thoughts?

Offhand, Cats' reaction to getting votes gives me "waah i'm caught for bullshit reasons this is so unfair" vibes. Kenny seems a little too polished with his unfrozen-caveman "i'm a newbie" gimmick. Malcolm seems overly careful and like he's hiding.

fancy gave off "town captain" scum vibes, but now I think maybe that's just who he is--that he hasn't backed off from his pedantry and wordiness is probably a good sign. mala I can't remember, just a vibe. Irrelephant mostly asking good questions, toffee I forget why but in ISO I have town read.

mala gets town read for a vibe. malcolm at least substantiates a reason for such a hunch.

fred and shosh lean scum, CW lean town, and no opinion on the others

here loftwing is included under 'no opinion'

OK.

Still down to lynch Kenny, I could probably be convinced to switch to Loft, we have a week left but my two main suspects basically refuse to make any reads so I'm basically down to just hang them now. I might do a reread and some meta diving when I'm more motivated.

hmmm less green. kenny formed reads, as did loft in a limited way (doesnt trust CW). can be playstyle thing. i get it more from loft than kenny tbh.

[KittyTacky]

I am free earlier than expected, posting a proper VC tomorrow. I'm so sorry for the absence!

Shoshin has been prodded.

Eiralox has been warned: do not discuss ongoing games.

[Eiralox]

Spoiler:

LW 4

---

Frederick seems town

Kenny's first post was bad, but the rest of his interactions with FancyPants feels TvT. In particular, I feel like pushing FancyPants, who I think several people have said are town, feels like going against the grain in a way that I don't think new scum would do.

Nothing Loftwing has written seems that difficult to fake but he pings me as genuine town anyway

Shoshin is probably town (before you ask, yes this is meta)

Loftwing townread By Cat

You don't have to be like "this person is DEFINITELY SCUM" to have helpful reads. You can just compare, say, kenny and fancypants, who are voting each other, and pick a side. Voila, you've got a townread. You can figure out who's done the least that's towny to you. Voila, you've got a scumread. Nothing so far??

Can't decide if town being stubborn or scum trying to seem towny by audacity

161
Correct link, I messed up something with the link above.

I've remained unimpressed with what I've seen so far. Off the top of my head, I don't have any particularly strong reads on anyone, and I'd have to re-read the game again for analysis.

Wild that you can read this very thread and walk away without reads

This post explained why kenny felt out of place and why it felt like nothing, it was nothing but only if you were looking for reads.

Once I was satisfied, I relieved the pressure.

How did Kenny's explanation satisfy your concern about a lack of substance in his posts?

It explained why there was nothing of substance in terms of reads, because there was nothing in terms of reads. In terms of general thoughts, there is substance in their earlier posts.

ok a bit circular and nothin-burger here? might be town saying they like poants and kenny earlier more than now.

loftwing/kenny/lowell feels way too easy, but I would also be shocked if it had 0 mafia in it

loft is town

lets sort by post count

there is substance in their earlier posts.

please do point out the substance, I keep stirring my soup trying to find even a single noodle stuck at the bottom of the bowl but my spoon keeps coming up with just broth

How... did I quote all of those posts?

@CW, I know you don't like explaining usually but I'm trying to figure the game, would you do me a favour and explain why you think Loft is town?

Anyway, a reads list so far.



Loftwing - Not sure I like the "I don't have reads" approach. Could quite easily be lazy scum trying to coast by. Especially given the sudden vote and unvote on Kenny. Felt opportunistic, as if they were aware coasting by wasn't going to work.

So here are my thoughts about the game so far.

There is Eiralox who voted and changed votes twice very early in the game.

I made a (in my eyes) fun comment about this. I know it is RVS, so those vote changes are very likely a thing of trying to beating around the bush in hope of someone reacting to being voted.

FancyPants tries to push me for this comment. This feels wierd. But maybe it is because they are torn pants (thanks Irrelephant for that pun).

The most fascinating thing about Irrelephant is, that Shoshin is probably town. Not that I think Shoshin is scum, but I don't see how he should have gained the towncred.

ConfidentlyWrongs selfvote in the early RVS is NAI for me. As mentioned by someone else earlier (too lazy to look it up again) this seems to be a humoristic approach (haha).

BlueBloodedToffee pushing CW for the selfvote and then, when the waggon didn't get on track too well, hopping on the CSF waggon seems fishy.

I don't see why CSF deserves the waggon that's now going on.

Everyone else is just a blank card for me right now.

This is a window into what Kenny was thinking, and it shows that they wish to contribute to the gamestate even if they have little to no reads. It highlights what they consider to be important events up to this point, and it would be wise to study it in depth to catch a glimpse of Kenny's pov

hmmm UNVOTE: Loftwing for now.

i'll continue analysis in my own time.


VOTE: Lowell you have been mentioned way too much over these past few pages not to be active at this time.

[Eiralox]

that actually counts for toffee and mala as well. shosh has been prodded. i havent studied toffee yet tbh, hard to form a feel for them so far.

[kennyk]

A whole lot of things happened since my last post. Before I comment on the CW/Eira clash and the consequences of this, I will start with a few minor things (minor in terms of posts to digest)

[kennyk]

personally i think the game is solved fmpov

with [Lowell/Eira/Mala] as the most likely team

and then as bonus PoE: [BBT/kennyk]

Every other player I feel a confident enough reason to townread them.

kennyk is also never paired with Lowell

And I thought I had you pocketed

By all the things that came from this post, I never saw the following questions:
I get it, that you had and (because neither BBT nor I posted) still have BBT and me as null.
Why do you think BBT us null?
Why am I? Are you afraid of openly reading me town?

Why am Lowell and I not paired?

[kennyk]

Mala does prefer playing town to scum. I like to give her some leeway because she's consistently busy IRL, but the longer she's away, the more wary I grow of her alignment.

Did I miss the post where Mala says she prefers town over scum?

If it is true, her not posting really is a bad sign.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I am not caught up in this game.

Two competing wagons is spicy though. I want to get involved

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Mala does prefer playing town to scum. I like to give her some leeway because she's consistently busy IRL, but the longer she's away, the more wary I grow of her alignment.

Did I miss the post where Mala says she prefers town over scum?

If it is true, her not posting really is a bad sign.

It's not a post

It's out of experience playing with her several times

[Cat Scratch Fever]

VOTE: Lowell