Mini Normal 2277 - Frog Images (Game Over)

[Gamma Emerald]

wooo
My other scumreads weren’t great but at least I nailed Galron!

[Haschel Cedricson]

Woooo

Glad I caught on to two scum right away, but you did great at avoiding suspicion, T3.

[redcardinal]

oh wait no I read the scum pt wrong whoop

[redcardinal]

haschel you played that pretty well

[redcardinal]

t3 that was is in my opinion some of the best scum play I've ever seen, really believed it wasn't you

[Ausuka]

Yeah T3 hard carried on the mafia side

[Ausuka]

Was really impressed by how universally townread he was, I feel like he wins this pretty much solo if he kills kitty and busses Klick?

[Gamma Emerald]

I kinda felt T3’s entry could be scum but I didn’t feel like the rest of his play was weak enough to voice that concern

[schadd_]

i was ready to argue more for t3 being a wolf today but really the only reason i knew that was because he was totally backed into a corner by role stuff and it was clear he was trying to clear a path for endgame when nobody else was really bothering with that. i guess i kind of was. didnt notice in the slightest that redcard was neighborized

i dont think town played especially brilliantly past the galron flip & i know i definitely didnt. i feel like this was a slightly strong setup for town and then yea as ausuka said it just played out quite favorably. seanzie definitely wound up with good targets, i wouldnt have advocated in a million years for investigating kitty on the night that i was like 80% sure he'd show up dead (if he was town) but i think it worked out very well

[Gamma Emerald]

Also I have died N2 in three games in a row just about

[redcardinal]

yeah that night seanzie neighborized kt fingers were super crossed maf didn't kill either

[schadd_]

i had inklings of t3 being scum earlier (i was weirded out by 1124 being identical to what gamma had said a moment ago & i thought his case on me was maybe too wrongheaded but i mostly chalked that up to like the innate frustration has when you get cased) but i didnt really consider it at all on d1 and d3.

[schadd_]

I actually sent out the role pms in a random order because it occured to me that if i sent them in role order that could be metagamed

I don't think anyone would actually do that because that's stupid and dumb but I wonder if it would be hypothetically possible in some games

i usually send them in plist order except its just convenient to send the vts and the mafia at the same time (vts i use bcc and just send them all the same pm, and then mafia i usually just send a bare link to the scum pt which has the roles in it). yes i also have this paranoia

[Gamma Emerald]

I always try to send them almost all at once which does take several tabs being open but it’s worth it

[schadd_]

ok then yeah what did that mala post even mean. no i haven't used backup neighbor seems like a silly role

I feel like no one else understands the context of this but

A long time ago, I co-moderated a game called kidney mafia and it was a very memey game

I think it'll be slightly funny if Schadd_ wrongly assumes Galron's role claim is correct because of that. That said I understand backup neighbour being a fakeclaim isn't exactly intuitive.

i dont remember any of the roles from that game, like there was a ridiculously tiny mafia and this serial killer that had a bunch of bullshit and the survivors team and then like every individual member of the town fakeclaiming something for fun

[Seanzie]

It's true that things would have gone very different if scum would have figured out that the reason I backed of Galron after their claim is that I thought they were lying and actually backing me up. They messed up I think with the claim though if they knew a neighborizer was a thing, since neighborizer implies no neighbors implies Galron is lying about backup neighbor.

[schadd_]

Town Rolecops are, by default, considered one of the weakest town PRs. Vanilla cops are usually weaker, but as far as investigative roles go, by default, town rolecop is considered probably among the weakest 5. Neapolitans are stronger, Gunsmiths are stronger, Cops are stronger, Trackers are stronger, Followers are stronger, PT Cops are stronger, Traffic Analysts are stronger, I'd even argue Motion Detectors are stronger (altho that one is debatable).

yeah i'd say it's like motion detector ~= rolecop (you can make setups where rolecop is better or worse) > vanilla cop > voyeur > all the roles we added in the last like 2 years that do nearly nothing > the roles that simply do nothing

[schadd_]

i thought about ascetic for 30 seconds and then discarded it for i dont remember what reason

[schadd_]

i also thought of multitasking RB but that would need more town power and then i'd also have to ask how ausuka would deal with the mutual blocking scenario which i didnt feel like doing

[schadd_]

basically i thought about the mala thing for like an hour and then stopped

[Ausuka]

I feel like "all actions by both just fail" is the answer I would give but seems like an inappropriate interaction for a normal setup?

[Gamma Emerald]

I feel kinda disres that my read on Mala got completely ignored

[schadd_]

in a normal game with those roles i believe you have to come up with what happens beforehand and i think you have to say that one of them wins. but idk

if I were in the game I probably would never eliminate Mala just because the role based evidence she's town is stronger than most people's reads - ascetic and strongman can exist but won't most of the time

i also abide by this and i think it makes games less fun. there's a load of roles in normal games that are like "cop, but there's some predictable moments where it gets a false result". for example a lot of people get excited to put gunsmith vs mafia doctor in their setup. but games where the gunsmith investigates the doctor: just suck. the theory of it is that, well, a sufficiently good town can sniff out that the person is scum against all odds, but that basically won't happen and on top of that nobody wants to do it. maybe it's more fun from the perspective of somebody that's mafia trying to argue that somebody else's gunsmith inno is false in f3 or something

in short i think i said during the game that it's really not clear to me that most roles in the normal pool make the game more fun

[schadd_]

i'm still pretty willing to believe mala is town. as i said i got frustrated by her a lot yesterday & i wanted to like go back on my claim that her sort of limited interaction with the game is town-indicative, but then the fact that i wanted that is a sign that she's not like intervening to keep it up. if that makes sense. anyway i also think gamma's townread on her is compelling. it sounded like they have a history and i guess i just feel like there would be a good basis to get a read on mala. & i think she was always confidently town on mala

[Gamma Emerald]

Oh I missed that sorry
I don’t read very closely once I exit a game