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[Something_Smart]

If the word hardclaim ever meant anything, it no longer does

I don't think hardclaim ever meant that it couldn't be a lie. It just meant it was a literal and real claim, meant to be taken seriously.

[Ausuka]

zzz

i don't *love* guiltylion's interactions with the gamma slot in like, total, but

maybe i'm not smart

but i feel like scum!guilty would be positioning himself better? and like, i know his usual scum m.o. is like, push bullshit distance with buddies and like, i don't get the vibe that he's done some Very Heavy Lifting to vote townies out, i don't feel like he's done well enough to protect his partners, i don't feel like he's positioned himself well

like, this kinda stuff traditionally feels "scummy" but i'm not sure i can read guiltylion "traditionally" in good faith

Fwiw i have felt that GL is strongly town at various points

I don't think I've ever seen a scum lion and maybe I do need to re evaluate him but like

I liked how he pushed Baltar along with me d1 and in general has felt like a town presence in the thread and I can't see myself wanting to kill him before a lot of other players

pedit: but it was not a real claim

[Frogsterking]

I have a terrible memory but I feel like tweet's claim might be an indicator that scum also figured out the odd/even situation? At least partially

They might have, but I would think it was more likely just an explanation for why the FN didn't go off N1.

Lmao

What's an example of what scum!S_S would suggest for Tweet to claim?

[Ausuka]

ok i went and dealt with my paranoia about ausuka

nvm about that if anyone cared

What happened?

Ausuka's WIM has fallen off a lot and I think that can happen a lot with deep wolf positions and then just no one ever reevaluates

but I reread and decided my fears were unfounded

Fwiw i think my wim falling off correlates to when I started university?

I am still trying to do things but it is not as easy to hyperpost now

[Dannflor]

yeah I don't think it's AI

I just get paranoid because I think as a general rule scum players tend to fall off throughout long games

[Thestatusquo]

i appreciate my emotions being validated over ausuka’s but i don’t find that really exonerating for the slot

it's because I've secretly resented ausuka for the last 3 years bc she modded my first ever game on mafiascum(dot)net and failed to warn me that I would be trapped here thereafter

VOTE: Menalque

that is a hardclaim, btw

If the word hardclaim ever meant anything, it no longer does

fb was lowkey nowhere near excited enough about the game (esp in a Pl that he likes and knows people in) to be scum, it's just a couple of jokes and a lot of bland and then I assume he repped out

I've seen him in scum games and I'm pretty sure that after my first hiatus he was scum in a game that skitter and S_S (and lowkey maybe you?) were also in, and while I think town won I think he was convincingly a lot more engaged for a long time than he normally is as town

oh shit yes i was there, that's right

I do not know firebringer and if this is a meta tell people actually use I feel like a list of 'people firebringer knows' would be very helpful

Re: 5814; I see where you're coming from here but like idk, when I was looking through that ISO it didn't come off as distancing to me at all? At least not on Gamma's end. I think specifically discussing Gamma-VP interactions comes off as not s/s. I think the proxy reads thing being so experimental is, like, slightly +town because in general I think you want to be trying shiny new scumhunting techniques in town games. I agree 2116 doesn't look much like a buddy post.

I think the point about frog not considering my relly read is pretty good and I want to go back and review the context around that

Bold of you to assume there's only one vig.

HMM.

:thinkign:

pedit: currently fire and I do not think shea should be in the pool

I've played with firebringer a ton. I kind of think that the "enthusiasm" thing is kind of overblown. I think he's very capable of playing an enthusiastic town game.

[Thestatusquo]

And yeah my conclusion to that frogster dive was basically I didnt really think frogster was scum despite a couple outwardly ehhh things. So it kind of sounds like we just agree on frogster.

[Dannflor]

ime firebringer's enthusiasm has more to do with player list and just general vibes per game than anything else

I think he'd be sad if he got a scum team he didn't vibe with

[Thestatusquo]

and 7 to no eliminate

Oh hey that's interesting

I think I was the first to pioneer that rule like a decade ago! NE just needs enough to make a majority impossible.

[Frogsterking]

and 7 to no eliminate

Oh hey that's interesting

I think I was the first to pioneer that rule like a decade ago! NE just needs enough to make a majority impossible.

Cool!

[Thestatusquo]

ime firebringer's enthusiasm has more to do with player list and just general vibes per game than anything else

I think he'd be sad if he got a scum team he didn't vibe with

Well firebringer and I have a long history of really disliking each other and we rolled scum together in Yggdrasi and I don't really remember that game enough to say if I felt he was enthusiastic or not. He ended up replacing out and that game had some huge structural issues which sapped the motivation of the whole scum team so I'm not sure if I want to go back and relive it tbh.

[Datisi]

Bold of you to assume there's only one vig.

HMM.

:thinkign:

i was hoping that s_s would have some sorta comment on this if i just kept bringing it up, but it doesn't seem like he will

s_s, what is this post lol

[Something_Smart]

What's an example of what scum!S_S would suggest for Tweet to claim?

Unsure, it would depend on the roles of the team and how exactly I felt the team was positioned.

An investigative role of some kind would probably be more likely allowed to survive; perhaps a tracker with a random "went nowhere" result on a townie N1. If they contradict it, hey we outed a PR; if not, hey our claim is backed up. Plus, if she dies anyway, it would create some WIFOM over whether she claimed a result on a partner.

Depending on partner positioning on the wagon, VT is also a good option. A VT claim pulled off well with a "last will"-ish post could convince people that she's not playing survivalistically enough to be scum.

[Something_Smart]

i was hoping that s_s would have some sorta comment on this if i just kept bringing it up, but it doesn't seem like he will

s_s, what is this post lol

What's to comment on? It was a joke that ended up being prescient.

[Datisi]

why do i keep having the delusion that i'll be able to read the tone of your posts in response to me one way or another

[Ausuka]

i was hoping that s_s would have some sorta comment on this if i just kept bringing it up, but it doesn't seem like he will

s_s, what is this post lol

What's to comment on? It was a joke that ended up being prescient.

VOTE: ss

[Something_Smart]

I mean, if you want me to adopt any particular changes to my tone that would make me more readable, I'm down to try it, but I can't promise anything.

[Thestatusquo]

What's an example of what scum!S_S would suggest for Tweet to claim?

Unsure, it would depend on the roles of the team and how exactly I felt the team was positioned.

An investigative role of some kind would probably be more likely allowed to survive; perhaps a tracker with a random "went nowhere" result on a townie N1. If they contradict it, hey we outed a PR; if not, hey our claim is backed up. Plus, if she dies anyway, it would create some WIFOM over whether she claimed a result on a partner.

Depending on partner positioning on the wagon, VT is also a good option. A VT claim pulled off well with a "last will"-ish post could convince people that she's not playing survivalistically enough to be scum.

I kind of think this post is pretty townie. I don't think scum S_S would tell MT to claim something investigative with scamper prettttty strongly hinting that they were an investigative of some kind.

The fact that this came out of him in this thought experiment to me kind of implies to me that this isn't something he's thought through in detail before and it feels pretty unlikely to be faked.

[Frogsterking]

perhaps a tracker with a random "went nowhere" result on a townie N1. If they contradict it, hey we outed a PR; if not, hey our claim is backed up.

Smart

[Frogsterking]

I kind of think this post is pretty townie. I don't think scum S_S would tell MT to claim something investigative with scamper prettttty strongly hinting that they were an investigative of some kind.

Even in a large where there is probably more than 1 investigative?

[Dannflor]

also scamper is either gated or was role blocked given he didn't get a result from last night

[Frogsterking]

also scamper is either gated or was role blocked given he didn't get a result from last night

Gated refers to the even-odd night thing?

[Ausuka]

A Wall no one will read

I'm actually not a big fan of the fire case and I'm not even sure that Ausuka even puts that much stock into it.

After I started writing this I noticed that it was titled

My thoughts on fireisredsir

and it wasn't necessarily a scumcase.

I mean, I don't think fire is certain scum or anything. The points I make are my thoughts, that's all I can say. In fairness it actually was not intended to be a scumcase at first, although it did kind of end up becoming one.

Not a big fan of the Eiralox point. Like I get it, scum push a mislimable slot b/c it's EZ but

she

wasn't alone on Eira so I'm not sure why that's scummier for redfire than Frog or anyone else who jumped.

I mean sure it doesn't sound great when you isolate it like that. My point was for a substantial period of time these pushes on FB and on Eiralox were his main contribution of the thread and I don't think they helped town really. I think seeing the pressure there and jumping on the wagon is fine and not that scummy.

it's pretty clear that in general his normal behaviour is going to be different to his behaviour where he's light years behind and has no idea what was going on.

I also really don't like this line. Other than putting down Eira's ability I just generally disagree that his play would be different than the mini that me, you, and Frog played in. I do agree that it's possible that he saw the post count and noped out of this thread.

I don't think this puts down his ability in any way. I think looking at his ISO it's just really clear that he was not able to keep up with the thread, and I'm sort of baffled by the idea that this wouldn't make his play very different compared to the mini normal.

If you want to argue that redfire is scum for switching

her

read on TSQ then fine, scum certainly do that but it's null b/c like...town does it all the time.

She

was also sheeping me on my points about Relly, and then agreeing that the way VP treated Relly was how VP has treated his scumbuddies in the past. You could maybe make the argument that redfire is just hiding behind my loud ass but I don't think that committing the sin of switching your read is more likely to come from scum than town.

I think this is overly reductive about what I'm saying. They're not scum just because "they switched their read" - I think they make a good point that would make Shea town and the way they dismiss it and move on doesn't seem believable to me, especially considering Shea is a convenient push to make for scum on d2.

Also, this is the second time you've come to the defense of the Relly/TSQ slot.

I mean I have clearly been townreading that slot for a long time?

[Something_Smart]

also scamper is either gated or was role blocked given he didn't get a result from last night

Or doesn't always get conclusive results, or targeted a dead player, etc.

[Ausuka]

I think we do not understand the information scum has available and therefore it is difficult to evaluate MT's claim

I also think given MT seems not to have, like, a massive amount of motivation for her wolfgame it is very possible she made her own claim without having a whole discussion in the scumchat first - I think in general scum aren't that co-ordinated