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camntsuki
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Post Post #1075  (ISO)  » Wed Jul 11, 2018 4:27 am

In post 1044, zMuffinMan wrote:does camn think that too, now? have you two talked about reads?

We have not. I, camn, am on a crazy work trip that is nonstop. I am skimming along...but my esteemed partner is off the leash.
In re: Dunn...I have been skipping his posts mostly. I don't have the time or energy to argue with Kats about it...and if there is a Lynch, then it solves itself.

Sorry!

I told Kats pregame I couldn't be around..and he promised to not lurk our face off...so I guess this was predictable :)

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Post Post #1076  (ISO)  » Wed Jul 11, 2018 7:54 am

In post 1054, Dunnstral wrote:I think camntsuki is a way better chance of hitting mafia than staeg is and would like to wagon that isntead. Staeg is bad but I'm more sure on Camntsuki

i think staeg is more likely than cupcamn. i'd rather staeg first. if there's support for a cupcamn wagon over staeg then i'll move there though, but i'm not going to abandon the staeg wagon to push it

do you think staeg has done anything that looks town or why do you want to lynch cupcamn first?

In post 1068, Kokichi Oma wrote:What's the difference between this game and my game in the FakeGod game where you TR me?

in the fakegod game, i believed your "5 day" claim (lol) because it had a distinctly "fakegod-would-give-that-sort-of-modifier-to-town" feel to it (pretty sure i explicitly mentioned that on at least one occasion). im prone to taking early claims like that at face value (see: me also completely ignoring mastina in that game too)

plus i just thought you seemed town in some posts there (i don't remember the specifics, but i don't get the same feeling here)

probably wasn't fair to say you hadn't posted any game-relevant content here. i exaggerate sometimes. sue me. you've posted some content, just not much. and what little you've posted hasn't given me any strong feelings about you
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Post Post #1077  (ISO)  » Wed Jul 11, 2018 8:00 am

In post 1069, Kokichi Oma wrote:I've already stated why Meta is a reason I've scumread Maria

yeah, i've been following the back and forth you've been having with mollie. that's part of why i don't like the maria read you gave
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AnonymousGhost
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Post Post #1078  (ISO)  » Wed Jul 11, 2018 8:13 am

In post 1067, Kokichi Oma wrote:Catching up is hard, but I've just given a few reads. Did you not see it?


Besides your town read on Esp in and your feelings towards certain players in , I can barely remember your earlier reads/posts.
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Post Post #1079  (ISO)  » Wed Jul 11, 2018 11:40 am

Because I got off VLA like 2 days ago
How do you expect to find the culprit when you're all worried about each other's feelings? If you're planning to expose a liar, then you have to corner them psychologically.

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Post Post #1080  (ISO)  » Wed Jul 11, 2018 11:41 am

In post 1076, zMuffinMan wrote:you've posted some content, just not much.

I got off VLA 2 days ago and have been posting consistently since then
How do you expect to find the culprit when you're all worried about each other's feelings? If you're planning to expose a liar, then you have to corner them psychologically.

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Post Post #1081  (ISO)  » Wed Jul 11, 2018 11:41 am

In post 1078, AnonymousGhost wrote:
In post 1067, Kokichi Oma wrote:Catching up is hard, but I've just given a few reads. Did you not see it?


Besides your town read on Esp in and your feelings towards certain players in , I can barely remember your earlier reads/posts.


Well I just posted some
How do you expect to find the culprit when you're all worried about each other's feelings? If you're planning to expose a liar, then you have to corner them psychologically.

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Post Post #1082  (ISO)  » Wed Jul 11, 2018 11:42 am

In post 1077, zMuffinMan wrote:
In post 1069, Kokichi Oma wrote:I've already stated why Meta is a reason I've scumread Maria

yeah, i've been following the back and forth you've been having with mollie. that's part of why i don't like the maria read you gave


?? I haven't even talked to mollie
How do you expect to find the culprit when you're all worried about each other's feelings? If you're planning to expose a liar, then you have to corner them psychologically.

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Post Post #1083  (ISO)  » Wed Jul 11, 2018 11:43 am

Or is she ghost now? Either way, what does that have to do with Maria
How do you expect to find the culprit when you're all worried about each other's feelings? If you're planning to expose a liar, then you have to corner them psychologically.

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Post Post #1084  (ISO)  » Wed Jul 11, 2018 4:35 pm

In post 860, zMuffinMan wrote:i still want to lynch staeg. his most recent post to kuribo just looks like a lot of words used to say very little in the end (im not even clear on whether he is (or was) reading kuribo as scum - the beginning of that post seems to suggest he was, the end of it seems to suggest he isn't, but it's not entirely clear)

The only post that you've made talking about your Staeg read without going "Staeg is scum because his posts are bad OR Staeg is bad because there's nothing town in his posts" is this one, which addresses Staeg's #636, which is one of the posts I think that Staeg is the least likely to make as scum.

In post 636, Staeg wrote:Kurbio, the push seemed off because at every step you raised an objection that differed significantly from anything I might have responded. There was a groove to it that didn't fit my reading of the game, even if none of it was technically wrong.

My original interpretation of Dunn's Kokichi vote and unvote was not fencesitty at all, mostly because I had a similar impression that there was a clear improvement, but I appear to have misassigned someone's post to Kokichi, since 156 is the only intermediate post and it's not a very good one. My previous frame pointed at Dunn making a reasonable transition that didn't merit much explanation (which made me confused about why Kuribo would jump on it), and this new one just feels like he got distracted and didn't pay attention, then tried to reverse-engineer the reasoning later.

Responding to "why is [post] bad?" with "no why is it good?" was similarly jarring - your further response was the next intuitive step, and your dance felt like it had an added 2.5 step between the 2-beat and the 3-beat and was thus off.

I projected the off-ness of the dance onto Dunn at the time, and felt like he understandably couldn't quite catch your pitch. I now appear to think he's scum, oops, more on that in a bit.


You then asserted disenginuity on my part and assumed that the faultline I perceived was regarding the naked vote, not regarding your approach specifically, which, blech, is fair in retrospect, but did not at all read like a reasonable interpretation of my posts at the time.

All this resulted in me feeling like you're not reading between the lines, or that your eyes perceive much different words written there. The "series of somethings" was a not-entirely-sober way of saying that you're talking past each other, and that you're also talking past me regarding a misplaced understanding of my points of disapproval.

The first sentence is the last piece of followup to his initial prodding of Kuribo in #324 - following that progression it seems more obvious that he was initially scumreading Kuribo for the push but backed off it later. I don't think this is a move that Staeg would be likely to pull, especially based on the reasoning he gave - Staeg as scum is more tentative than most in pushing players who are likely to push him back, and the idea that he would push Kuribo as scum because "your groove wasn't fitting in with how I was feeling at time" seems absurd to me and isn't something that I think have been acknowledged by any of the Staeg voters, but is especially something that I feel that you should be seeing.

His backpedal onto voting Dunnstral after defending him really doesn't make sense from a scum perspective because it doesn't look like something planned or agenda based at all. If he was scum here, then I'd imagine he'd have a vague sort of plan in mind when deciding to defend Dunnstral against kuribo, but this... doesn't imply that at all. I don't understand what Staeg voters think that he was thinking here if scum - did he defend Dunnstral against Kuribo and not expect pushback of any sort? Or when he got pushback, did he chicken out?
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Post Post #1085  (ISO)  » Wed Jul 11, 2018 4:36 pm

In post 1044, zMuffinMan wrote:
In post 1037, camntsuki wrote:BECAUSE WE THINK DUNNS IS SCUM WTF?

does camn think that too, now? have you two talked about reads?

In post 1038, camntsuki wrote:SEE ANY DRAM OR FATE GAME FOR TOWN ACTIVITY LEVELS

yeah, i actually started going over your games last night and i realised the activity itself probably doesn't mean much (i also checked that fakegod kuribo in wonderland game as well, fwiw). i suppose it's just been a while since i've seen it so that was what initially stuck out to me here

the activity isn't really much of a factor in why i think you're scum, though

btw, what actually is your read on staeg, cupcake?


Why then? It's also surprising that you've been going on about activity levels when all you had to do was check historical camntsuki activity levels.

Haven't read staeg in depth.
In post 1045, zMuffinMan wrote:
In post 1040, camntsuki wrote:His posts are designed to bait you into an argument.

don't think this is true (except insofar as people regularly incite arguments in a mafia game). i'm aware he's made posts like , but posts like that aren't a general trend like you're suggesting they are


His series of trash posts in the 800s not going thru his ISO to read those posts again.

He significantly killed off our enthusiasm for this game. See his posts directed at us, and his subsequent interactions with mollie. Then combine that with the points we already laid out prior, including his interactions towards Kuribo.

Either way, been feeling iffy about you for most of this game, and given that you've been trying to cast suspicion on us all game, along with your defense dunnstral screams staeg being your town mislynch counterwagon to scumstral.

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Post Post #1086  (ISO)  » Wed Jul 11, 2018 4:37 pm

Still feel that Fate should have just modkilled Dunnstral, alas.

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Post Post #1087  (ISO)  » Wed Jul 11, 2018 4:45 pm

Time to play catchup
I bet Maria is scum this game~Firebringer
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Post Post #1088  (ISO)  » Wed Jul 11, 2018 4:45 pm

In post 861, Staeg wrote:This entire debacle on behalf of DGB feels very inconsistent with my model of how emotionally intelligent she is and of what some people - kuribo, mostly - are saying in regards to their reasoning (ie directly contradicting the claim that this is emotion-based and pointing at actual content), to the extent that I'd call it a scumpost.

and then apparently staeg-scum, after bungling an attack of kuribo and defense of Dunnstral to the point where he had to back off seconds later, decides to throw a potshot at DGB, who is one of the most townread players in the game right now and coincidentally was one of the very few players leaning town on him at this point.

This just isn't anywhere close to his scum meta; Staeg as scum is quiet and underwhelming but I've never ever seen him go "wildly suicidal" as he seems to be doing here. Staeg-town gets mislynched incessantly for pretty much this reason exactly.
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-- Fate, Vanilla Townie, was brutally stabbed by a throwing sword in endgame.

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Post Post #1089  (ISO)  » Wed Jul 11, 2018 4:48 pm

Would you vote camntsuki, Nacho?

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Post Post #1090  (ISO)  » Wed Jul 11, 2018 5:40 pm

hi nacho!

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Post Post #1091  (ISO)  » Wed Jul 11, 2018 5:41 pm

staeg you might as well claim

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Post Post #1092  (ISO)  » Wed Jul 11, 2018 5:51 pm

In post 1084, Nachomamma8 wrote:following that progression it seems more obvious that he was initially scumreading Kuribo for the push but backed off it later

let's break this down

it wasn't obvious that he was scum-reading kuribo before that post. calling someone's push "ill-founded" () doesn't imply a scum read and the posts following that didn't read to me like he was scum-reading kuribo either

as far as the progression on that read goes, what progression? at what point and why do you think staeg flipped the kuribo read you think he had? because for the most part, that post looks like him trying to rock the boat as little as possible (there's no attack on kuribo here, it reads more like a defense of himself, and the second and fourth paragraph aren't even about kuribo). he never commits to a kuribo read at any point (in that post or the prior ones) and he ends that post by seemingly backing off for reasons he doesn't talk about

that's why i say i can't even tell what his read on kuribo was

In post 1084, Nachomamma8 wrote:the idea that he would push Kuribo as scum because "your groove wasn't fitting in with how I was feeling at time" seems absurd to me

that looks like a personalised way of saying "gut"

but, again, there was no push on kuribo


btw, where is your meta on staeg coming from? because i've looked through all of the games here and the only scum game i can find is down the bottom (OPEN 383 REBOOT, which he seems to have replaced into and has none of the players here). unless i missed something somewhere, in which case, point me to it
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Post Post #1093  (ISO)  » Wed Jul 11, 2018 6:09 pm

In post 1084, Nachomamma8 wrote:If he was scum here, then I'd imagine he'd have a vague sort of plan in mind when deciding to defend Dunnstral against kuribo, but this... doesn't imply that at all.

i don't believe staeg is the type of meticulous scum player who pre-plans all his actions like that so i don't find it strange at all. especially if dunnstral is town and the most viable not-staeg option

to me it looked more like he started out defending a town player, realised it wasn't worth the time and effort and that he wasn't looking good, decided to switch gears when he felt he was in danger himself

In post 1088, Nachomamma8 wrote:decides to throw a potshot at DGB, who is one of the most townread players in the game right now and coincidentally was one of the very few players leaning town on him at this point

i don't think him throwing a potshot at DGB means anything in and of itself (and i don't think this is him going "wildly suicidal"). i do, however, think the reasoning he gave for is a strange angle for scum to push, which is giving me some pause now that i'm thinking about it. i'll think about it more when i'm not busy at work
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Post Post #1094  (ISO)  » Wed Jul 11, 2018 6:12 pm

In post 1084, Nachomamma8 wrote:Staeg as scum is more tentative than most in pushing players who are likely to push him back


Nacho.

If I focus just on this aspect of Staeg's scum play, if you're to be believed, then Staeg's current play fits into exactly what you're saying here.

It's been brought up - not by me - that is sus because if Staeg that it was a scum post, why'd he wait until someone else called it a scum post and then wait until three people voted for Kokichi. This, however, has been refuted by the point that Staeg wasn't online and active at the time that this pile on happened, tbf. (I think he's the one who refuted it, but I don't know for sure.)

Staeg's "push" on me is literally "I'm down with a wagon on AG" after LLD posted her "I don't like Ghost" . Are these two things a direct cause and effect? Probably not. Does it fit into the pattern that Staeg hasn't "pushed" for a wagon of his own? Yes. Just take a look at how he joined the Kokichi wagon after three other people voted.

His "case" on Dunn was never actually brought up despite his that promised he'd explain more on that. It's worth noting that Staeg says he scum reads Dunn in a roundabout way and he never voted Dunn in that post. It's nearly 200 posts later that he does in . I recognize that this is flimsy because Staeg could've been pressed for time or maybe it's not his meta to vote in the same post he says he scum reads someone, but I still think it's sus.

For both his push on Dunn and I, nobody knows what it is. It might as well be a gut read for as much as Staeg has "explained" his reads/cases.
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Post Post #1095  (ISO)  » Wed Jul 11, 2018 6:24 pm

BLOOD BY FRIDAY WOULD BE NICE

JUST SAYIN
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Post Post #1096  (ISO)  » Wed Jul 11, 2018 6:24 pm

In post 1092, zMuffinMan wrote:it wasn't obvious that he was scum-reading kuribo before that post. calling someone's push "ill-founded" (324) doesn't imply a scum read and the posts following that didn't read to me like he was scum-reading kuribo either

Push is a bad word, but it's something that he wrote down and, if he has any familiarity with kuribo at all (and hey, he does), then he knows he's getting pushback for it and he knows it's going to be challenged.
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-- Fate, Vanilla Townie, was brutally stabbed by a throwing sword in endgame.

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Post Post #1097  (ISO)  » Wed Jul 11, 2018 6:27 pm

In post 1092, zMuffinMan wrote:as far as the progression on that read goes, what progression? at what point and why do you think staeg flipped the kuribo read you think he had? because for the most part, that post looks like him trying to rock the boat as little as possible (there's no attack on kuribo here, it reads more like a defense of himself, and the second and fourth paragraph aren't even about kuribo). he never commits to a kuribo read at any point (in that post or the prior ones) and he ends that post by seemingly backing off for reasons he doesn't talk about

I don't think he ever had a full fledged scumread on kuribo. I think that he felt badly about kuribo's push initially (scumread), talked to him about it, backed off and then realized he was incorrect about elements of kuribo's push and was incorrect about some things that were happening in general.

If he wasn't trying to rock the boat, he doesn't attack kuribo here and his back off of defending Dunnstral isn't "oops I guess I'm scumreading Dunnstral now".
"Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten

-- Fate, Vanilla Townie, was brutally stabbed by a throwing sword in endgame.

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Post Post #1098  (ISO)  » Wed Jul 11, 2018 6:28 pm

In post 1094, AnonymousGhost wrote:It's been brought up - not by me - that 114 is sus because if Staeg that it was a scum post, why'd he wait until someone else called it a scum post and then wait until three people voted for Kokichi. This, however, has been refuted by the point that Staeg wasn't online and active at the time that this pile on happened, tbf. (I think he's the one who refuted it, but I don't know for sure.)

So this point doesn't apply.
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-- Fate, Vanilla Townie, was brutally stabbed by a throwing sword in endgame.

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Post Post #1099  (ISO)  » Wed Jul 11, 2018 6:29 pm

If you say so.
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