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Post Post #1350  (ISO)  » Wed Aug 14, 2019 8:58 pm

also i just realized the timing of ppl jumping on implo (after he obtained a key) is prettyyyy suspect

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Post Post #1351  (ISO)  » Wed Aug 14, 2019 9:00 pm

In post 1323, Alisae wrote:
In post 1280, GreyICE wrote:MariaR! Alisae! We're not fucking about with 3rd parties today. It is an absolute, utter waste of time when we know they exist, they claimed of their own volition, and there's no particular reason to think they're antitown (and plenty of reasons to think they're not, as an 8v5 is just nonsensical and not mafia). Lets do something real today. We can send the third parties to the games or whatever and lynch them if they have keys on them. It's way better.
I don’t want to lynch Implosion. Do you have an alternative I might be interested in?


I might be sellable on a skygazer wagon, but first I want to talk to you about this one, since you don't seem to like it. Why is your town read so strong?

I'm not going to dispute some of the things Implosion says are good. He's not a stupid person, he's not going to be stupid as scum either. I'm not saying his setup stuff is wrong - being scum doesn't mean you can't understand the setup. But I'd like you to go through and really, really look at his posts. Is anything there insightful? Or is it all surface stuff? I scratched the surface when I asked him to expand on the TemporalLich townread, and what I got was sheer nonsense written to appease me. That's not my interpretation, he admitted as much.

Why are his reads so surface and shallow? Why did he want to appease me? Why is he "so frustrated with me he can't talk to me"? I'd just like you to go through, and really think if anything he said about people - not the setup, not the rules, not the structure of mafia, but the people and personalities - that shows really, really deep insight. Or is it mostly surface shit - Pine is ridiculous, TL is "gut town", NK15 is "gut town", etc. Would he need to read anyone's posts in these game to make those posts? Would he really need to think about them?

I don't see any evidence he's playing like that. I think he's put lots of time into figuring out how to win the game, yes. What were the results of that?

In post 1276, hebichan wrote:1-shot neighborizer that can steal a key from the person in the neighborhood, used on plum.

In post 875, implosion wrote:Given that (1) GI can confirm his ability and (2) i'm sure there are other ways to swap keys around if he doesn't/if he turns out to be scum who knows the yellow key is real/a third party who needs it for something, i'm in principal fine with him taking it conditional on him immediately swapping it to a townread that isn't solely decided by him (i'd be fine w/ plum if not me).


He's worked REAL hard to make sure he has access to a key come "Well of Fears", hasn't he? He's cared about two things - knowing if keys are real, and making sure he has access to a key. He hasn't cared about lynches, he hasn't cared about who is town or scum, he hasn't cared enough to make a reads list, he hasn't cared enough to work with his town reads, he is demotivated and doesn't seem to give a fuck about much of anything. Except making sure he has that real key, right?

In post 1202, implosion wrote:unless scum have the ability to like, steal the real key from someone at the last second... which i doubt.

In post 1276, hebichan wrote:1-shot neighborizer that can steal a key from the person in the neighborhood, used on plum.


He's a REAL cheeky scumfuck, ain't he? So why wouldn't I lynch him, exactly?
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Post Post #1352  (ISO)  » Wed Aug 14, 2019 9:06 pm

Alisae, when you got a Neighborhood with NK15, what was the notification like? Promise this is potentially relevant.

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Post Post #1353  (ISO)  » Wed Aug 14, 2019 9:18 pm

In post 1352, Plum wrote:Alisae, when you got a Neighborhood with NK15, what was the notification like? Promise this is potentially relevant.
Generic you've been invited to a neighbourhood message
the only thing thats interesting about the hood is what its called, and its called "The Strait Talk"
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Post Post #1354  (ISO)  » Wed Aug 14, 2019 9:19 pm

GreyICE I saw your post gimmie a bit please I want to give you a somewhat decent answer and be able to point out what I like about implosion
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Post Post #1355  (ISO)  » Wed Aug 14, 2019 9:21 pm

Okay, take your time. I took a while writing that, the only thing that would annoy me is if you just blew it off.

But don't feel this is a debate where you have one side or I have the other. I have a very, very firm opinion about Implosion at this point, but I could be wrong. But unless you have something from the moderator saying otherwise, so could you.
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Post Post #1356  (ISO)  » Wed Aug 14, 2019 9:58 pm

In post 707, implosion wrote:I guess I see the point that TL hasn't taken risky stances much but I think that's not surprising from town in this game. It took me a while to form like any material opinions in this game. I like , particularly calling one of Pine's posts a possible townslip; not a likely scum->scum interaction, and not something that i think scum points out if they see town do it (even if the townslip itself is bunk). isn't a bad post either imo. feels like a genuine thought that scum wouldn't think as much about, and I don't really buy that he's scum avoiding giving reads since he has now given a full reads list, justified them, and given decent answers to questions about why he has those reads. I think the way he's been scumreading katsuki is reasonable, and that katsuki is a really easy person to scumread in general if you aren't familiar with him.

Again, it's not a strong read. There are things that give me pause. 281 could potentially be scum who are more aware of the fact that scum only need one key to win because they're thinking about their own win condition, and his tone feels kinda bad in a lot of places. It's not a read I'm wed to.
I think before the mini game, I looked at this (and his other more wally posts) and thought "wow, it seems like implosion is really trying and giving his all" and thats what I was going into his ISO thinking "Where can I find Implosion giving his all and trying" and this is the only thing I could come up with that doesn't seem faked? Like, as scum he defends TL because why? And this post kinda summarizes how I felt about TL, he wasn't really playing that well and in fact was bad and was making really questionable posts, but I didn't think they were scummy persay, just, really bad at mafia.
And TL calling me scum for wanting to banish him no matter what seemed more likely to come from town then scum mostly because the thought was irrational? We had to decide who to banish out of 4 people and the obvious choice was him.

And there's also this NK41 stance here that also just doesn't make sense
In post 1202, implosion wrote:Plum, why did you quote post 1187? Do you agree with it? What more do you want me to do to sort maria, other than literally just voting for her (which I don't think is even meaningful)? And do you actually think katsuki is town beyond agreeing with townreads? Because it's not like kats has thrown out a bunch of reads that go against the grain, as far as i can tell.

Like I've said several times, I barely even feel motivated to vote anyone at all right now. Like I don't see why the town win condition even cares if the game goes to deadline (or, to time unit 36) without a hammer vote. I'm vaguely guessing the game was designed around it but that's all blank speculation, unless scum have the ability to like, steal the real key from someone at the last second... which i doubt.

NK is awkward because I actually don't agree with like a single thing he's said in the last ten pages but i'm still sure enough he's town. Hebi is still town, Plum is still town, alisae is still town, greyice is still probably town (or at least, enough people that i trust trust him). So in principal i'm fine banishing anyone that isn't one of those six. Sure, scum are going to banish one of them probably, but -shrug-. I'm fine banishing kuribo or sky if people want to get rid of the known not-towns. I'm fine banishing maria or katsuki. I just don't really care about banishment that much.
My impression is that people are annoyed of what NK69 is saying and think he could be scum and want to kill him. Thats certainly my take on it. So why bother defending that if Implosion was scum, wynaut just let town continue to shoot themselves in the foot and help kill him.

But like, thats it?
Looking through this ISO, I'm not finding what I thought was there. Its mostly just surface stuff. I'm starting to especially hate this stuff he's writing towards maria considering I think Maria is town
In post 1132, implosion wrote:
Maria wrote:Why are you trying to state exaggerations for no reason?

Because I'm frustrated with your play.

Maria wrote:No one has stated reasoning why I’m scum.

I've given a couple of salient points, namely your activity pattern feeling identical to mlp (weak, yes, but there) and . To add to them: it feels like you've made zero effort to further the town win condition, which is to build a coalition. You say you've adopted this new style, but it doesn't seem like a style especially well suited to this game, and playing the game of "I know I'm not going to get a key but I can bring scum reads down with me" doesn't seem like a way town *ought* to approach this setup, given we need six of us. Banishing scum reads doesn't even necessarily help us at all if those players weren't going to get keys in the first place. Like,

What am I suppose to be engaging with exactly? No one has stated reasoning why I’m scum.

This is bunk. You can try to publicly sort people. You can make an effort to have dialogue with your town reads. You can say who you want your coalition to be, and argue for those other people being in it, particularly people that you're town reading that others are scum reading (like presumably sky gazer before she claimed 3p).

Maria wrote:You do know I made this exact statement in how I hate scum 2 games ago correct? Do you think I would pick scum for an easy win yet hate playing the game? Is that what you think I’d do? That’s a question by the way I’m really curious.

the bolded is not something I know and I'm not sure why you think I do? Was it a statement in mlp?

I don't think you would pick it for an easy win, I think you either went third party > scum > town because you wanted third party but didn't feel like playing town in the game, or you felt more like playing scum than town, etc. If you have talked publicly and recently about finding scum not fun then that'd be useful information. Or maybe you were given third party and got one that's motivated to claim town instead of outing itself as kuribo and sky have. Maybe you specifically wanted to be scum in this player list because you thought it would be a more interesting challenge. Maybe you have other reasons for picking scum that I don't have the requisite knowledge to figure out. Or maybe even everyone put town above scum and you drew the short straw! I don't know. But it does not suffice on its own as an argument for you being town, even if it is evidence.

I’ll let my actions speak for me

Great. I'll be waiting for more of them than just a kuribo vote.
Like I dislike this more then I like it. This feels like a push thats coming from scum with the "you aren't trying to build a coalition"
well ofc she isn't, thats not how she's plays mafia.
She just wants to lynch scum and isn't really thinking about the whole "building coalition" part
and as scum, I think she would DEFINITELY being thinking about the whole "building coalition" part
In post 1175, implosion wrote:????

I've been trying to find the right coalition, that's why I'm trying to make Maria sortable, and why I've been open with my reads (though I guess I haven't given a full list in a week or w/e) but ????

The game's been fucking slow. Sue me for not being mega-ultra-hyper engaged. And I don't know why you're so excited to harp on me for going v/la... I'm still more active than half the player list. The people who need to townread me mostly already do (and i already have a key!) so I don't really care that much about actively making myself more sortable. If you wanna hold onto this germ of looking for reasons to scumread me then you do you.

"I get a bunch of setup spec and nothing i could use to actually sort the game" is fucking ridiculous. I've given setup spec here and there but i've been open about my reads. Half the time it's just boring to do anything and the thread is dominated by the likes of katsuki spouting random bullshit, kuribo doing nothing interesting, or discussion about which people we should send to a game we know nothing about.

Right now my strong town list is hebi, nk, plum. I want the four of us to get keys, with my next preferences probably being alisae and you (or gamma if he can be rezzed, of course). But scum get a banish after we do so most likely someone from that list will bite a bullet, and... idk dude, it's hard to predict what's going to happen this game with the obvious issue of "there's a fuckton of events that are going to fuck with shit in unpredictable ways".

I think I've been clear on why nk was town, and then nothing changed about those reasons and suddenly you're gung-ho about banishing him. He's been spouting random shit all game, it's just not scummy.
and here with this tone, I kind of think its faked. I hate this repitition of "Maria isn't trying to build a coalition" because I feel like thats all this push is.
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Post Post #1357  (ISO)  » Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:03 pm

In post 1160, implosion wrote:I don't want to join the nk wagon bc I've been pretty explicit about having no desire to banish him?

Like I don't think I've been unclear about that at any point.

I don't really have any motivation to use my vote tbh for the same reason hebichan said, banishment isn't clearly part of how we win.
there's also this
banishment may not be how we win, but its how scum gets to banish someone, and that could help and break apathy I feel like?

either way I feel like I'm playing badly because I'm not really doing much other then coasting and I think skygazer scumreading me might actually be town!indicative because my play sucks
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Post Post #1358  (ISO)  » Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:05 pm

but ye I could vote implosion ig
I see no harm in waiting for skygazer so I'm in no rush
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Post Post #1359  (ISO)  » Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:10 pm

Do you have a take on Katsuki?
I have no idea what to do with that slot
I have no idea how to read him
And I would like someone who maybe has an idea of how to read him to tell me how I should play around him because I don't think he's doing anything since we lynched pine and I think he definitely takes scum and I feel like it would be better to lynch him because I have no idea how to play around it
but I'm also bad at mafia and don't really put that much weight into my reads (not that thats important anyways) due to the fact that they can be wrong
So yeah

oh yeah I should probably do this until I'm ready to vote implosion
UNVOTE:
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Post Post #1360  (ISO)  » Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:16 pm

In post 1308, GreyICE wrote:Like... you do realize your role claim isn’t even compatible with Alisae’s wording of her miller, right? You find out pick order, apparently, but she appears as scum to all investigations. So what, you’d get back “scum” instead of an actual order? And what’s the rolecop? Also “scum”?
it not being compatable could also be by intention of the mod to make one of the roles look bad, either me or skygazer.
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Post Post #1361  (ISO)  » Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:17 pm

I think judging by my own role tho, I think the person who is meant to look bad is 100% me
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Post Post #1362  (ISO)  » Wed Aug 14, 2019 11:42 pm

In post 1359, Alisae wrote:Do you have a take on Katsuki?
I have no idea what to do with that slot
I have no idea how to read him
And I would like someone who maybe has an idea of how to read him to tell me how I should play around him because I don't think he's doing anything since we lynched pine and I think he definitely takes scum and I feel like it would be better to lynch him because I have no idea how to play around it


I've played more games with Katsuki than with anyone else except maybe DGB.

We've been against each other, and with each other, as every possible combination of alignment.

We've stood beside one another, in the years before MafiaScum, and battled common enemies in faraway galaxies.

I know Katsuki's game like the back of my hand, and since I'm third party, you can believe me when I say this because I don't need to mislynch him:

This is by faaaaaaaaaaaar Katsuki's town game.
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Post Post #1363  (ISO)  » Thu Aug 15, 2019 12:04 am

fuck what was implo's claim again

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Post Post #1364  (ISO)  » Thu Aug 15, 2019 12:06 am

okee he true claimed; forgot about his event-avoidance thing and was like !! but it's all there including the name

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Post Post #1365  (ISO)  » Thu Aug 15, 2019 12:07 am

In post 1362, kuribo wrote:
In post 1359, Alisae wrote:Do you have a take on Katsuki?
I have no idea what to do with that slot
I have no idea how to read him
And I would like someone who maybe has an idea of how to read him to tell me how I should play around him because I don't think he's doing anything since we lynched pine and I think he definitely takes scum and I feel like it would be better to lynch him because I have no idea how to play around it


I've played more games with Katsuki than with anyone else except maybe DGB.

We've been against each other, and with each other, as every possible combination of alignment.

We've stood beside one another, in the years before MafiaScum, and battled common enemies in faraway galaxies.

I know Katsuki's game like the back of my hand, and since I'm third party, you can believe me when I say this because I don't need to mislynch him:

This is by faaaaaaaaaaaar Katsuki's town game.
ok ty for ur wise words i will trust u
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Post Post #1366  (ISO)  » Thu Aug 15, 2019 12:08 am

those abilities are super scummy lmfao so him full claiming is probs town indicative

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Post Post #1367  (ISO)  » Thu Aug 15, 2019 12:13 am

darn u pazuzuz !!!

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Post Post #1368  (ISO)  » Thu Aug 15, 2019 12:59 am

Thank you for taking the time to read, Alisae. I really do appreciate it.
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Post Post #1369  (ISO)  » Thu Aug 15, 2019 1:00 am

ok; working under the assumptions that maria and implo are both town i think that gives a fuck ton of info in terms of a ton of ppl wanting to lynch implo shortly after he got a key and a ton of ppl testing the waters with a maria push

implo and maria: you two can both confirm at this point that im not making shit up considering i know maria's picks and hinted at implosions full role name which hasnt been outted yet; can you two please stop SRing each other and work together with me? maria picked town first so she's very likely to be town and she picked third party second so like at the very least she's not scum but the way she's been playing points towards town imo; implosion literally fullclaimed to another player his complete list of abilities; he didnt make any extra shit up or exclude any of his admittedly scummy sounding abilities; it wouldnt make sense for scum to box themselves into a claim like that without at least making up a townie ability and ommitting one of the scummier sounding abilities. additionally, that push on him just reeks of "scum sowing doubt" considering the town/scum win conditions here

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Post Post #1370  (ISO)  » Thu Aug 15, 2019 1:02 am

In post 1369, Skygazer wrote:working under the assumptions that maria and implo are both town


that's a hell of an assumption to make
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Post Post #1371  (ISO)  » Thu Aug 15, 2019 1:03 am

not for me!!

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Post Post #1372  (ISO)  » Thu Aug 15, 2019 1:05 am

As for reading Katsuki, I'm not Kuribo, but I also am not third party, so take this for what it's worth. I've hydraed with Kats before, and I've played in many games. The strong early day 1 energy, and a lot of the posts indicate to me that Katsuki is town. His preference on alignments is eh, whatever, like it wouldn't surprise me if he put any of the three first, but I think town. Town Katsuki ebbs and flows as a player, often with the energy of the town - the more high energy the town is, the more high energy Katsuki tends to be. Scum Katsuki marches to a different drummer, more based on how he feels the game is flowing for his team.

I also have a bit of a reason I don't fully want to discuss at the moment for thinking he's town. If I'm alive tomorrow I'll explain it, but I don't really want to discuss it at the moment. It's not anything certain, it's an indication.
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Post Post #1373  (ISO)  » Thu Aug 15, 2019 1:12 am

In post 1361, Alisae wrote:I think judging by my own role tho, I think the person who is meant to look bad is 100% me

Would you believe that your claim of being a Miller before more than two other people posted looks better than the claimed third party/town bulletproof cop/pick order cop/rolecop/JOAT claim?
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Post Post #1374  (ISO)  » Thu Aug 15, 2019 1:15 am

In post 1364, Skygazer wrote:okee he true claimed; forgot about his event-avoidance thing and was like !! but it's all there including the name


Wait. Be very extremely specific. What do you mean "including the name"?
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