[MT2225] Chrono Trigger Chronicles - The Rise/Fall of Yakra

[ssbm_Kyouko]

If we get a claim I wouldn't mind hammering it even though there is time left. People can catch up at night : shrug:

Are you caught up?

No and I haven't read anything.

Please read posts 1-177 and tell me your thoughts on Marashu's vote on me

[Angel Warriors]

I'm noticing a pattern that every time I get scum read, afterwards it's always scum trying to stick up for me for town points and for a potential pocket lol. Also every time I feel bad about wanting to suspect someone, it's because they were scum trying to manipulate me.

I really hate the idea of wagoning Nora just because she isn't tunneling people against all reason, and it's possible because she's using a hydra and has a second opinion to bounce off of that she's reeled herself back this game. But it's page 20 now and I haven't seen a single wall post or tunnel or even a pounce. The AW slot in general doesn't seem to trust me fully, but I think a paranoid Nora would've done something about that by now to let us know just how paranoid she is of me. Hell, she voted RMH but hasn't shown any progression on that at all, since right before the vote she actually agreed with RMH that Kyouko was scummy.

AtE ALERT.
NAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH i tunneled you because your play was bad.
also I dont do that every single game???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
mehhhhhhhh I dont buy that. nahhhhhhhhh literally nah. we haven't posted in like 3 pages and mom was the one that wanted RMH.
what's your point? and why would I be paranoid of you? its not like I've seen one of your scum games ever before. where is the paranoia from?

-nornorbearbear

[Lukewarm]

This game, you are getting scum read early day 1 as town, and are in a position where you need to turn that around -- And you thought "it's been a while" since I was in this kind of position --

When you literally just finished a game you were a USR day 1 as town, and you managed to turn that around and became an UTR by day 2?

[Lukewarm]

This game, you are getting scum read early day 1 as town, and are in a position where you need to turn that around -- And you thought "it's been a while" since I was in this kind of position --

When you literally just finished a game you were a USR day 1 as town, and you managed to turn that around and became an UTR by day 2?

This is what makes me think that post was performative

[Angel Warriors]

This game, you are getting scum read early day 1 as town, and are in a position where you need to turn that around -- And you thought "it's been a while" since I was in this kind of position --

When you literally just finished a game you were a USR day 1 as town, and you managed to turn that around and became an UTR by day 2?

your point? I've said that I am surprised to receive votes in multiple games
I have also said that a am surprised to not receive votes in multiple games
its more of a what did I expect from the game and I'll typically say the opposite
dont you think thats a dumb thing to lie about also? especially with you here, scum me would be more careful?????

-nornornonr

[Angel Warriors]

Like you're latching onto super small things that aren't AI for me and vary from game to game if you are town. if you are scum, well thats great and I hope you are?

-thinkaboutitifurtown

[Angel Warriors]

also I skimmed all the mara and lukewarm exchange. if there's anything important, someone will have to let me know

-skimmybearbear

[Roden]

Actually what made you respond to that in particular?

I don’t think it’s likely myself and my first blush response was to view the suggestion with skepticism
Thinking about it now I kinda regard it as harmless

I see, that's understandable.

If multiple people are confident on Luke being town then I think his read on T3 has merit.

I might be confbiasing currently reading up with suspicions on lukewarm. this feels super partner-y

At the risk of giving myself scum equity in case it is a red flip, I don't recommend hammering when we still have 11 days to go and we still have people trying to catch up.

what a way to actually cover all bases in one post. this post is super backtrack-y in a way that im not sure how to explain.

I'd like some engagement on why AW is town considering I have an unpopular view.

They put in the effort to meta me and readjusted their read on me because of it. I think Nora specifically could've gotten away with just death tunneling me and leaving it at that since that would cause more chaos while earning herself a stronger town read, since that's exactly what happened last time we played together when she was town. This can change depending on how the rest of the game goes of course, but I don't think AW should be a Day 1 elim.

Does she still tunnel people as scum? Or does she play more conservatively?

I hate this because it gives room to reverse his TR on us the moment its no longer popular/consensus. he knows that titus is someone thats played with me a decent amount(from her posts. she is directly metaing me) and hes asking her why which is a really easy entrance to the SR AW clubhouse.

-theangelnronor

How can I be partnery with Luke when you said you read my scum games? You would've seen that I either barely interact with my partner and/or just bus them if they're doomed anyway.

How am I covering my bases and backtracking? I never scum read RMH.

I'm asking Titus questions about your scum game because she's trying to case you and went out of her way to get me specifically to look at one of your scum games. If I wanted to give myself room to reverse a town read once it wasn't popular anymore, then why am I against the popular and easy wagon that is RMH? You just said I backtracked on RMH, so am I scum with him or not?

this looks incredibly condemning

hahahahahhaha. alright I will take a look at this old scum game of mine. you're totally bullshitting. this isn't what my scum game looks like.

I have not tried to pocket a single person here. my reads and thought process are clean as fuck. this aint my town game and I dont believe town ever takes a look at one of my scum games and thinks its "condemning" after a SKIM.

especially since you are a fairly new player. I dont believe town do that.

I have INCREDIBLY strong scum feels on roden right now. like INCREDIBLY no joke. let me take a look through this "condemning" lmfao scum game of mine.

I will go see how *CONDEMNING* it is.

-lolijustcaughtscum

This is just a reworded "omg you suck" lol. I'm looking at the same scum game Titus is using to scum read you so I'm not sure why I'm getting flak for looking at it and not the person who said to use it to meta you.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I don't think the interaction between you and Guillotina is genuine, but idk if it's both of you or just one of you. It's not guaranteed either of you are scum either even if I'm right, since I believe third party is a possibility.

What seems fake about it?

Guillo seemed ready to death tunnel you, and I wasn't vibing with your response. But I think it makes more sense that he was just super sensitive to getting scum read for the wrong reasons, not necessarily because he's actually scum but because he didn't think your reasoning was good. He claimed to be certain you were scum but backed down when questioned more on it, which made me think it was an emotional/pride thing. Basically I do think it's possible to be a fake response but for you both to be town anyway.

You weren't vibing with

my

response, but you voted

Guillotina

, even though he is the one you perceived as having a prideful reaction that could be fake, and coming from town.

So why Guillotina rather than me?

I don't know what you could possibly be trying to imply here other than me being scum partners with you. This is not a good response.

I'm implying that you're buddying me by taking my side of a TvT fight because I've already expressed a TR on you in 177. The question sounded rhetorical, but I do want to know: why Guillotina over me?

I obviously didn't know what was going on in Guillo's head. And you already had a wagon going that I didn't particularly want to join. I don't think I had particularly complex motives there.

Simple motives do not equal town motives. It's a simple idea to buddy a townie that is TRing you, especially when other town are currently voting that townie. It makes for good towncred later down the line after I've flipped.

VOTE: Roden

I think this is a step in the right direction. Sure RMH could be a scum PR but it could just as easily be the case that RMH is town and Roden is looking for towncred for being off and against the wagon, especially with the "at the risk of incriminating myself on a red flip" post. Sounds like an informed post to make - one scum could make in anticipation of the red or green flip that they know is coming.

[Lukewarm]

like 1) that meta is so outdated
2) even if it wasn't, the tone is completely different from this game

I do not buy even for one millisecond that rodeo beleived that game said absolutely anything about my alignment here. firstly that game had a ton of people that I love. secondly, my tone is completely different and its very clear I am trying to pocket people there,

-bear bear nor

Do you think that this makes Titus scummy then?

Didn't she point Roden to that specific game?

[Roden]

I'm noticing a pattern that every time I get scum read, afterwards it's always scum trying to stick up for me for town points and for a potential pocket lol. Also every time I feel bad about wanting to suspect someone, it's because they were scum trying to manipulate me.

I really hate the idea of wagoning Nora just because she isn't tunneling people against all reason, and it's possible because she's using a hydra and has a second opinion to bounce off of that she's reeled herself back this game. But it's page 20 now and I haven't seen a single wall post or tunnel or even a pounce. The AW slot in general doesn't seem to trust me fully, but I think a paranoid Nora would've done something about that by now to let us know just how paranoid she is of me. Hell, she voted RMH but hasn't shown any progression on that at all, since right before the vote she actually agreed with RMH that Kyouko was scummy.

AtE ALERT.
NAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH i tunneled you because your play was bad.
also I dont do that every single game???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
mehhhhhhhh I dont buy that. nahhhhhhhhh literally nah. we haven't posted in like 3 pages and mom was the one that wanted RMH.
what's your point? and why would I be paranoid of you? its not like I've seen one of your scum games ever before. where is the paranoia from?

-nornorbearbear

Nora you are genuinely notorious for tunneling to the point that people other than me bring it up. My play wasn't bad either, I caught both scum but you kept disregarding me.

As for the paranoia:

I would absolutely appreciate it if you didnt make this fakeclaiming a habit

Also

VOTE: roden

Blatant scum, let's go grab him

-mother angel

interesting. roden is now acting super towny. I'm inclined to go back to SR him again.

-indecisivenornor

So the thing is that seeing him blow up over a couple votes really reminded me of summertime.
then looking at his scum game was a real OH WOW moment there like wtf the contrast is insane.

I guess I'm worried because he's sounding too towny now. and I can easy excuse the blow ups by saying "oh well its directly targeted at me so I'll TR him by meta"
and mom thinks his reasons to SR us are total crap and I do trust in her reads a lot.
IDK.

-sucks

I didn't expect that but since I'm town reading you and I don't think scum blatantly defends each other like this

................................................................................................................................................................

-mmkay

I'm strongly inclined to trust Noraa on this.
The town: T3, House, Angel, Guillo, Roden
The scum: Lukewarm, RMH

<33333 you didnt roll malefactor again right? promise me?

Guillo is LOCKTOWN. like 100% certainty.

roden i am still processing atm.

-bearbearnor

If none of this is paranoia then were you actually just certain I was town? Because it's strange that your entire read on me flips just because I'm considering a universe where you could be scum. I didn't say you were 100% scum and I didn't even vote you. Yet you're melting down just because I specifically think there's a case for you to be scum.

[Dwlee99]

VOTE: Titus
I don't like some of her early posts

[Angel Warriors]

like 1) that meta is so outdated
2) even if it wasn't, the tone is completely different from this game

I do not buy even for one millisecond that rodeo beleived that game said absolutely anything about my alignment here. firstly that game had a ton of people that I love. secondly, my tone is completely different and its very clear I am trying to pocket people there,

-bear bear nor

Do you think that this makes Titus scummy then?

Didn't she point Roden to that specific game?

No my momma bear just works differently. her thought process reads really genuine and I believe she believes it.

-nornorbearbear

[Lukewarm]

This game, you are getting scum read early day 1 as town, and are in a position where you need to turn that around -- And you thought "it's been a while" since I was in this kind of position --

When you literally just finished a game you were a USR day 1 as town, and you managed to turn that around and became an UTR by day 2?

your point? I've said that I am surprised to receive votes in multiple games
I have also said that a am surprised to not receive votes in multiple games
its more of a what did I expect from the game and I'll typically say the opposite
dont you think thats a dumb thing to lie about also? especially with you here, scum me would be more careful?????

-nornornonr

It was not the "I am surprised to receive votes part" that seemed performative...

It was the "OOOOOO SPICY" and the " its been a while" and the "I will try my best to prove my towniness!" and the exclemation mark on that last one, and the "this is exciting actually"

And my point wasn't that you were lying about it purposefully, it was that you were being performative.

[Angel Warriors]

If none of this is paranoia then were you actually just certain I was town? Because it's strange that your entire read on me flips just because I'm considering a universe where you could be scum. I didn't say you were 100% scum and I didn't even vote you. Yet you're melting down just because I specifically think there's a case for you to be scum.

none of that is even remotely paranoia. you aren't good enough/I dont have enough experience with you to be paranoid of you for any reason. and all the posts you are quoting are just me saying you are scum. how is that paranoia?

-norbearbear

[Angel Warriors]

Because it's strange that your entire read on me flips just because I'm considering a universe where you could be scum. I didn't say you were 100% scum and I didn't even vote you.

an interesting way to catch scum that isn't always correct. but scum LOVE to mirror town's reads on them. look what this scum is doing here.

-norbearbear

[Angel Warriors]

I'm not sure why I'm getting flak for looking at it and not the person who said to use it to meta you.

"why me?!" scum

-nornor

[Dwlee99]

Did someone say why me fry me?

[Lukewarm]

like 1) that meta is so outdated
2) even if it wasn't, the tone is completely different from this game

I do not buy even for one millisecond that rodeo beleived that game said absolutely anything about my alignment here. firstly that game had a ton of people that I love. secondly, my tone is completely different and its very clear I am trying to pocket people there,

-bear bear nor

Do you think that this makes Titus scummy then?

Didn't she point Roden to that specific game?

No my momma bear just works differently. her thought process reads really genuine and I believe she believes it.

-nornorbearbear

So Titus says "Roden go look at this scum game of Noraa's, I think that it is very similar to the way she is playing this game"

And Roden, goes and looks at that game, and agrees with Titus

And your response is to say that Roden must be scum for believing this looks like that scum game, but that Titus is probably town for thinking this looks like that scum game?

[Angel Warriors]

This game, you are getting scum read early day 1 as town, and are in a position where you need to turn that around -- And you thought "it's been a while" since I was in this kind of position --

When you literally just finished a game you were a USR day 1 as town, and you managed to turn that around and became an UTR by day 2?

your point? I've said that I am surprised to receive votes in multiple games
I have also said that a am surprised to not receive votes in multiple games
its more of a what did I expect from the game and I'll typically say the opposite
dont you think thats a dumb thing to lie about also? especially with you here, scum me would be more careful?????

-nornornonr

It was not the "I am surprised to receive votes part" that seemed performative...

It was the "OOOOOO SPICY" and the " its been a while" and the "I will try my best to prove my towniness!" and the exclemation mark on that last one, and the "this is exciting actually"

And my point wasn't that you were lying about it purposefully, it was that you were being performative.

fair. I won't deny that getting scum reads sometimes makes me feel "guilty". its stupid but I do that and it gets people tunneled on me often.
I'll try one last time to explain this. if you dont get it, whatever I give up trying to reason with you
essentially, when I get scum read, I feel like im doing something wrong. and my play works very heavily off of first impressions and just the vibes I give off in general.
when im scum read, I feel like im doing something wrong and I will exaggerate my emotions in hopes of it looking towny. that almost always backfires however if I were scum, I would be doing that subtly starting from the very beginning.
I have good control over my emotions as scum because I know what I need to do to win the game. I know I need certain b=people in my pocket and certain people dead. I have a clear goal and destination in mind. I will stick to that.

but as town, I get lost and when people dont townread me, in a way, I feel like I am legitimately scum. I hate the red alignment so much that I get ... flashbacks, if you will, as town. especially after getting stomped on my cabd in three games, it took a huge chunk out of my confidence in my play as both alignments(I was stomped on my cabd two times as scum. one time as town)

and in general, I hate being scum so much that I expect to be scum read as scum. and in a way, you could say I find it shameful to be scum read as town.

I got off track but hopefully this helps some town out there read me correctly here.

-norbearbear

[Angel Warriors]

So Titus says "Roden go look at this scum game of Noraa's, I think that it is very similar to the way she is playing this game"

And Roden, goes and looks at that game, and agrees with Titus

And your response is to say that Roden must be scum for believing this looks like that scum game, but that Titus is probably town for thinking this looks like that scum game?

the game Titus mentioned does not prove anything. it is not good evidence. it is the fact that Titus is engaging me in good faith and actually trying to sort me that makes me think she is misguided town.

I am more often than not tunneled for meta reasons as town. I dont find it strange that Titus would use meta to scum read me.

Roden is different. he wasn't in that game. he didnt feel the subtle things that might bleed into this game as strongly because he wasn't in it. being in it gives a stronger understanding and you see more emotion even though the posts are the same. that is why I believe it when Titus says she thinks she remembers/sees/feels something but I dont believe roden.

-noraaaaaa

[Lukewarm]

But we have not SRed him in a while here so I dont see a valid reason for him to SR me here

an interesting way to catch scum that isn't always correct. but scum LOVE to mirror town's reads on them. look what this scum is doing here.

Nora: Luke is scum because he is reading me the opposite way that I am reading him

Also Nora: Roden is scum because he is reading me the same way that I am reading him

[Roden]

This is a bad reason to stop the wagon. It's not like the thread is waiting with bated breath for RMH to come and post - there's still plenty of conversation going about other avenues. We should be giving him a free pass to wait out the pressure. You're acting like his wagon is bad for the conversation but I see no indication that this is the case. If you see something that indicates otherwise, could you illustrate that? I'm having a hard time believing this is a real thought process.

What makes it a bad reason? Genuine question.

I think it's bad to park votes on a wagon and then do nothing to pressure or question the person there. We'd be better off using votes to pressure other people who will actually generate content, this should be obvious. Besides that, he got taken to E-1 then got threatened with an early hammer, how exactly is that a good thing for town? Could he be scum? Sure, and if he is then of course we should hammer him. But you don't even seem to have a case for him yourself, you're just going after me instead.

You say your post isn't a

"soft defend"

, because nothing in it exonerates him or town cases him, but that is exactly why I say it's "soft" - if you were town casing him or arguing against scumcases that had been presented against him, that would be defending or hard defending, depending on the intensity of your post, in my book.

You're calling it soft but you just described exactly why my post wasn't a defense. If you're gonna call something a defense, it doesn't matter if you attach "soft" to it, point out the actual defense there. Otherwise you're making an accusation with no actual basis.

I scrolled backward from your post to find Luke's read and it didnt look like a case, but maybe the case came before. If you wanted people to see the case though, I would expect you to say something like "If a lot of people agree Luke is town maybe we should be taking his case on T3 more seriously: <insert quote or post number here>". It just feels like a half-assed attempt to move the wagon someplace else because you dont want to appear too eager.

So I'm suspicious for bringing up Luke's case on T3 but also suspicious for not bringing it up enough? This is a reach tbh, it really looks like you're looking for any reason to justify going after me here.

If you were concerned more with finding scum than derailing RMH you would be coming harder at one of your scumreads. Right now though you're hedging between Angel and T3, probably waiting for one to take off so the pressure comes down from RMH.

...You mean how like you're hedging between me and RMH?

I'm not sure how this last part relates to what I said. If you weren't searching for it, then you recalled it, so it must have been of some interest to you if you remembered it.

Yes, I did recall it. That's why I...recalled it. Not sure what the "gotcha!" is supposed to be here?

I'm also not sure why you would say it should be spotlighted and that it's not very interesting in the same post.

This is purely meant to be a "gotcha!" moment lmao. Like this is blatantly just that. Does this make you scum read me then? This is another genuine question, because now I

know

you aren't being genuine with me here.

[Angel Warriors]

like that game's me surface level wise is very different from this game me

but Titus modded that game. I find it possible that she truly saw something there that seems to match something here.

I am being performative in a way. I guess I dont tend to think about it like that but when I get worried, I do a lot of things subconsciously. I actually think about why people are scum reading me and realize that the reasons sort of make sense. That makes me think im scum in a way. I know that doesnt totally make sense. what im trying to say is that as scum, I won't think about why people are scum reading me. I'll just be like im scum, thats why. I won't try to understand and explain why im not. I will skip the understanding portion and just deny it straight up.

idk im trying to explain this to a desperate extent at this point. if no one gets it, honestly fine. I tried.

-norbearbear

[Dwlee99]

It is three days in and y'all are already doing a wall off