Mini 2237: Scarlet Witch Alternate Reality Mafia - Game Over

[cyrus62]

viewtopic.php?f=23&t=87275 Here is the game .now to look for post

[CheekyTeeky]

How is it rolefishing?

It's not really rocket science, if you're scum, you'd know Wanda/Vision were town and likely the most powerful PRs (if they're the main characters) and that kind of a role might encourage them to signal to you.

[Roden]

How is it rolefishing?

It's not really rocket science, if you're scum, you'd know Wanda/Vision were town and likely the most powerful PRs (if they're the main characters) and that kind of a role might encourage them to signal to you.

This doesn't feel like a real thought process. Why would Wanda signal to me if Visiting her results in a failed action? I only learn from Visiting Vision, no one else.

Second, why would Vision signal to me? I can only confirm their roles, I don't offer any utility besides that. I genuinely think it would be stupid for Vision to do that and highly recommend that they don't do that.

As far as my role goes, if I don't get mis-elim'd today, I won't be revealing who I Visit at night anyway. Doing so just narrows down who

isn't

Vision if I claim a failed action on a name.

[CheekyTeeky]

You've called me awkward and now accused me of faking a thought process...yet you think I'm town?

OK so I thought you could confirm both, and yes it is a bad idea for anyone to signal to you or for you to reveal anything. Although if you live long enough to find Vision it might be a good idea to plan that reveal if Vision is a town role based on other flips.

[Roden]

You've called me awkward and now accused me of faking a thought process...yet you think I'm town?

OK so I thought you could confirm both, and yes it is a bad idea for anyone to signal to you or for you to reveal anything. Although if you live long enough to find Vision it might be a good idea to plan that reveal if Vision is a town role based on other flips.

I don't think your town, but you're also not my strongest scum read. Guillo is, with T3 right behind him. I could be wrong about you though.

I'll confirm Vision and Wanda only if one of them is at risk of being elim'd, or if I can narrow down PoE to a point where we have an unstoppable town win.

[MegAzumarill]

VOTE: Roden

Baaa

But seriously I am watching mastina do her work and you are giving off really weird reads and vibes this game.

The role claim is kinda strange too.

[cyrus62]

Strange statement if that's supposed to be coming from a town perspective, considering there's only 1 scum left.

Well I more meant plenty of time left in the day phase to establish myself as nightkill-worthy. But while we're on the subject of that, I guess it does apply to the number of night phases I can have to get nightkilled.

Obviously, if the last scum gets eliminated, then the game ends, but if we don't end the game today: I can die tonight.
If I live to see tomorrow, that's 5 alive; if the game doesn't end then, I can die then.

So less than I thought (for some reason I thought we had 9 alive so that there'd be 3 nights before lylo rather than 2), but still a long amount of time. I obviously prefer to be a bit more of a shortsighted battering ram of sorts, where I don't need to plan to the lategame since I intend to die or end the game with scum all dead before then, but that doesn't mean I can't. Whenever I am in a game where I've got decent reason to believe that I won't die like my preferred battering ram approach, I always plan ahead, I always think ahead, I always try to balance for the planning, long-term town strategy involved, thinking ahead, setting up for the long 'con' (in spite of being town). And I'm more or less saying that there's plenty of time for my planning and strategy to lead to my death pre-lylo.

Pretty sure it was probably mentioned in the PT.

I mean.

Granted, I imagine that doesn't hardclear me. I could still have the knowledge from scumbuddies, I guess. But I wasn't aware T3 was Crono until he flipped as such.

I believe all of us agree lukewarm is town so it should be good to do that?

While I'm not convinced Lukewarm's town, he does give off town vibes. He's definitely "town enough", as it were. We're not talking, "in final 4 autocleared town", if Lukewarm reached final 4 that would trigger alarms and a need to reevaluate if he's really town, but town enough means, basically, "cleared until final 4" to me.

For the record, you're the other slot I have in that category. Higher up mind you, borderline autocleared-even-in-final-4, but I've not done the needed isowork there to be sure. (You are a slot whose both heads I feel like I can read pretty well and you look town but I've not looked at your iso to make sure.)

Mastina please just pick somebody to claim next. That choice matters in regards to trying to read you.

Not-Angel Warriors and not-you(Lukewarm) would be the best I've got.

If you want better than that, what you need to do is to give me time to actually develop tangible reads. I'm mostly improvising, flying by the seat of my pants right now, in trying to find a direction, trying to get a lockdown, trying to get a grasp, a hold, on the game, where to look, what to focus on, what to dig into, where to search, etc.

On its own, that's a process which takes time. It can be sped up by people interacting with me, giving me better ideas on things to focus on, giving me information, perspectives, etc., but nobody has given me much in that way yet, soooooo.

I repeat:

you want someone who

hasn't read the game

and, explicitly,

has no reads

, to be the first person to choose someone next to claim? Very poor decision.
I've got fuckall of any idea who to select next, it'd literally be selecting a name out of a hat.

You have only yourselves to blame.

I

am

trying tho. I'm working on it.

I disagree on frog claiming vt. That seems pointless, and just sets us up to all claim VT, and get no where :/

For the record I've had my thoughts on the setup from the moment I got my role PM but I would like to stress that I feel like any speculation about the nature of the setup is anti-town and only serves to benefit the scum. If the scum don't know what to think about the setup, what to expect, etc., then why the fuck should we give them that insight? So I would strongly encourage you not talk about this chain of thought. Massclaiming is fine, setup spec is not.

We're in a really tough spot and I don't think it's wise to trust anyone unless we figure out a hard clear.

I have a philosophy for precisely this situation!
It's a philosophy that causes a great deal of grief to town players who're, rightly, miffed that they are suddenly being scumread out of what amounts to paranoia, but in spite of that inherent flaw to the philosophy, I consider it a necessary evil to invoke it when we get to the situation where the last scum can't be found easily:
"When everyone has a reason to be town, it means at least one person who has reason to be town, isn't."
Or some variation on that to give the same basic meaning.

Which is that you have to delve into the reasons for every player being town and delve into the reasons for every player being scum. If a player has absolutely no reason to be scum, then you aren't being critical enough in your evaluation/thinking. Even a player who you can soulread, have strong meta on, have very very strong reasons to be town, isn't immune to this--if you can't see the reasons for that player possibly being scum, you've made a grave mistake, even if the read you have is 200% correct.

The point of this isn't so much to have zero townreads and to scumread everyone, but to engage in more thorough critical thinking, that both gets rid of your biases, gets rid of your preconceived notions, and forces you to analyze more deeply and thoroughly every slot in the game and then weigh them on a scale. So that player who you can soulread and have strong meta on and has strong reasons to be town? After you can see the reasons for that player to possibly be scum, you then dismantle the reasons for why they could possibly be scum by recognizing how weak those reasons are, how unlikely those reasons are, and reestablish how strong the reasons for them to be town are, to solidify them as a slot you should never ever eliminate, at the top of your tierlist from towniest to scumiest.

And then you keep on doing that for every slot in the game, repeating the analysis. Weighing the merits of the reasons for them to be scum (are they valid or are they surface) vs. weighing the merits of the reasons for them to be town (are they valid or are they surface) to evaluate towniest to least-townie overall, instead of trying to necessarily locate the final scum.

ok ok maybe you didn't say hardest of hard claims but you said auto a lot.

[Roden]

VOTE: Roden

Baaa

But seriously I am watching mastina do her work and you are giving off really weird reads and vibes this game.

The role claim is kinda strange too.

Are you counter claiming?

[cyrus62]

VOTE: Roden

Baaa

But seriously I am watching mastina do her work and you are giving off really weird reads and vibes this game.

The role claim is kinda strange too.

I think mega and mistina could be partners here.

[Roden]

For the record I do not support the roden wagon right now.
This feels very apart from his scum play that I am used to. (Haven't had any personal experience with town!roden but have played with scum! Roden a few times.)

What happened to this?

[MegAzumarill]

For the record I do not support the roden wagon right now.
This feels very apart from his scum play that I am used to. (Haven't had any personal experience with town!roden but have played with scum! Roden a few times.)

What happened to this?

Becausr scum!Roden reads to me as calm and collected. But here you are just feeling like you lash out at everything. You weren't reading as scum but as ???. The change now is I tr or tl on more players, so poe leaves you more likely.

And I am not counterclaiming you, but that role seems convoluted at best.

[Roden]

I'm predicting a town loss at this point, y'all are letting scum control the narrative and trying to mis-elim a plot relevant flavor claim that no one else has CC'd.

[Roden]

For the record I do not support the roden wagon right now.
This feels very apart from his scum play that I am used to. (Haven't had any personal experience with town!roden but have played with scum! Roden a few times.)

What happened to this?

Becausr scum!Roden reads to me as calm and collected. But here you are just feeling like you lash out at everything. You weren't reading as scum but as ???. The change now is I tr or tl on more players, so poe leaves you more likely.

And I am not counterclaiming you, but that role seems convoluted at best.

Your read on me should mean you think I'm town then?

[Roden]

This is so fucking baffling.

[MegAzumarill]

It reads at not your scum game but it doesn't look like town either.

Also your claim feels like you could have gotten it as a VT fakeclaim but instead you chose to give it a convoluted flavor ability in order to be flavor cleared for it.

[Shrek]

idk. it sounds like a really weird thing to fakeclaim especially unprompted. tbh i feel like roden might be right about t3's weird progression tho

[Roden]

It reads at not your scum game but it doesn't look like town either.

Also your claim feels like you could have gotten it as a VT fakeclaim but instead you chose to give it a convoluted flavor ability in order to be flavor cleared for it.

You've literally never played with town me until this game.

Visitor who can only visit a certain role is not convoluted lol. That's an obvious reach and you know it.

[Roden]

Like I genuinely don't see how someone can say "I don't think you're scum but I'm voting for you anyway" and think that's pro-town in any way.

[CheekyTeeky]

I'm predicting a town loss at this point, y'all are letting scum control the narrative and trying to mis-elim a plot relevant flavor claim that no one else has CC'd.

Who are the scum controlling the narrative? Your scumreads are t3, guillo and me. None of us are controlling the narrative. This is just scum flailing at this point.

VOTE: Roden

[Roden]

"None of us are controlling the narrative"
*votes a non-CC'd townie who got meta'd as town*

Ok lol.

[cyrus62]

Is that e2?

[cyrus62]

Got to be careful there not mafia could be watching waiting to pounce?

[Shrek]

@not_mafia are you there watching waiting to pounce

[Roden]

It's wild that my first mis-elim is gonna be when I obv-town'd and caught at least two scum Day 1. And I bet nearly all of you are gonna ignore my reads even after I get proven right with my flip.

[Roden]

VOTE: Roden

Here you go NM.