Mini 2251: Triplicate! GAME OVER!

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Ircher
What A Grand Idea
 
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Post Post #1650  (ISO)  » Mon Dec 06, 2021 8:29 pm

In post 1605, Dwlee99 wrote:Okay here's the deal. I am town in A, but scum in B, BUT my role is I'm a haterizer / loverizer combo so if I live the night I'll be able to haterize myself tonight and this will mean I need one less vote to be flipped tomorrow, meaning I can be hammered in B without dying in A. As it stands right now, I don't think it is possible to only lim me in B because no one is alive in A but not in B. But if we wait a day I CAN be limmed in B and not A

1) Why are you making this trade?
2) VOTE: Radical Rat
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CheekyTeeky
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Post Post #1651  (ISO)  » Mon Dec 06, 2021 9:15 pm

RR has already flipped scum in C and has been posting a lot more since that flip. I don't understand why he's the lim in A?
<3 xx

Lady Chloe
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Post Post #1652  (ISO)  » Mon Dec 06, 2021 9:20 pm

{House/Dunnstral/Dwlee/Ircher} is too obvious, no?
Yes, this is Taly. Yes, I accept she/her pronouns on this alt. Yes, I am a cis-man. Yes, I am experimenting with gender fluidity.

Lady Chloe
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Post Post #1653  (ISO)  » Mon Dec 06, 2021 9:20 pm

Oh wait, mini tends to have 3 scoundrels a game...

... I need my beauty sleep.
Yes, this is Taly. Yes, I accept she/her pronouns on this alt. Yes, I am a cis-man. Yes, I am experimenting with gender fluidity.

Dwlee99
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Post Post #1654  (ISO)  » Mon Dec 06, 2021 9:33 pm

In post 1650, Ircher wrote:
In post 1605, Dwlee99 wrote:Okay here's the deal. I am town in A, but scum in B, BUT my role is I'm a haterizer / loverizer combo so if I live the night I'll be able to haterize myself tonight and this will mean I need one less vote to be flipped tomorrow, meaning I can be hammered in B without dying in A. As it stands right now, I don't think it is possible to only lim me in B because no one is alive in A but not in B. But if we wait a day I CAN be limmed in B and not A

1) Why are you making this trade?
2) VOTE: Radical Rat

No point getting limmed in both when that just means we are even harder losing A
I prefer they, thanks :)

Amy Dunne
Mafia Scum
 
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Post Post #1655  (ISO)  » Mon Dec 06, 2021 10:35 pm

In post 1651, CheekyTeeky wrote:RR has already flipped scum in C and has been posting a lot more since that flip. I don't understand why he's the lim in A?


I ISO’d RCE earlier and couldn’t find anything that looked remotely like a soft and RCE has never played with scum!RR, not recently anyway. I didn’t bother looking at anything past 2020.

So, it really makes no sense that scum!RR would want RCE dead here.

Ircher
What A Grand Idea
 
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Post Post #1656  (ISO)  » Mon Dec 06, 2021 11:02 pm

In post 1651, CheekyTeeky wrote:RR has already flipped scum in C and has been posting a lot more since that flip. I don't understand why he's the lim in A?

Increased engagement does not equate town.
Links: User Page | Player Ratings | GTKAS
Upcoming: Web of Lies, a 13p mini theme. PM me for details. [3/6 preins]
Theorem of the Month: The Three Reflections Theorem: In the Euclidean plane, any distance-preserving map is the product of at most three reflections.
"The only way to learn mathematics is to do mathematics." - Paul Halmos

Amy Dunne
Mafia Scum
 
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Post Post #1657  (ISO)  » Mon Dec 06, 2021 11:18 pm

In post 1656, Ircher wrote:
In post 1651, CheekyTeeky wrote:RR has already flipped scum in C and has been posting a lot more since that flip. I don't understand why he's the lim in A?

Increased engagement does not equate town.


Are you going to explain your RR vote? Why is he scum?

Jingle
Ring a Bell?
 
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Post Post #1658  (ISO)  » Mon Dec 06, 2021 11:35 pm

Prodding Dunnstral.
"It's truly shocking how many quotes are misattributed to Mark Twain." ~Mark Twain

Jingle
Ring a Bell?
 
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Post Post #1659  (ISO)  » Tue Dec 07, 2021 12:13 am

Vote Count Normal.2.02Radical Rat (E-3): , , ,
T3 (E-4): ,
House (E-4): , ,
Dwlee99 (E-6):
CheekyTeeky (E-6):
Dunnstral (E-6):
Ircher (E-6):
mastina (E-6):
Amy Dunne (E-6):
Almost50 (E-6):
Lady Chloe (E-6):

No Elim (0):


Not Voting (4): , , , mastina

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to murder/death/kill or 6 to choose not to.

The deadline for Day 1 is in (expired on 2021-12-19 06:00:00).


Vote Count Theme.2.01Radical Rat (E-4): , , ,
House (E-5): , ,
CheekyTeeky (E-7):
[b]T3 (E-7):

RCEnigma (E-7):
Dunnstral (E-7):
Ircher (E-7):
mastina (E-7):
Amy Dunne (E-7):
Almost50 (E-7):
Lady Chloe (E-7):
Dwlee99 (E-8):

No Elim (0):


Not Voting (7): , , , RCEnigma, Dunnstral, Dwlee99, mastina

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to murder/death/kill or 6 to choose not to.

The deadline for Day 1 is in (expired on 2021-12-12 18:30:00).
Last edited by Jingle on Tue Dec 07, 2021 11:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
"It's truly shocking how many quotes are misattributed to Mark Twain." ~Mark Twain

CheekyTeeky
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Post Post #1660  (ISO)  » Tue Dec 07, 2021 1:07 am

Wait how are Dunn and Dwlee voting in A but not B?
<3 xx

CheekyTeeky
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Post Post #1661  (ISO)  » Tue Dec 07, 2021 1:08 am

In post 1657, Amy Dunne wrote:
In post 1656, Ircher wrote:
In post 1651, CheekyTeeky wrote:RR has already flipped scum in C and has been posting a lot more since that flip. I don't understand why he's the lim in A?

Increased engagement does not equate town.


Are you going to explain your RR vote? Why is he scum?
<3 xx

mastina
False Prophet
 
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Post Post #1662  (ISO)  » Tue Dec 07, 2021 2:50 am

Alright, so I am home, which means I need to do this:
In Game Two, I am (technically) a Bulletproof Survivor.
It's not quite a normal Survivor wincon; it's almost a Town Survivor.
My wincon is to survive to the end of the game with no more than two players who're not members of the Paperwork faction alive. (Is slightly paraphrased here, but obviously, can't do an exact quote without getting modkilled and you'll forgive me for being a bit cautious given that literally the last time I got 3p I did in fact eat a modkill.) I asked the mod and, yes, I count as one of those two.

In other words, per Jingle, if there are three scum alive and they trigger their win condition, I will lose;
If there are two scum alive and they trigger their win condition, I will lose.

I could technically win with the scum with only one scum alive, buuuuuuut: at that point, why bother? I'm just going to townside since I need two scum dead anyway, why not make it all three?

Given that I need AT LEAST two scum dead in order to win, and pragmatically speaking probably can get the fastest win just by having all three scum be eliminated, I've been playing as if I was town the entire time. (Because I would anyway because fuck playing 3ps as scum, they are town.)

I should give a full disclaimer/confession tho.
I wasn't really planning on claiming 3p here unless one of two conditions happened.

The reason why is simple;
Mafiascum has a murderboner for third parties.
They see a 3p claim, they see "oh they're not town that means we can just eliminate them!". Even when said 3p is basically town and probably the game was balanced around said 3p being treated as town. (As in, 3ps that are benign/benevolent are usually, for balance purposes, meant to be treated as a town PR, meaning that the game will have three groupscum and that the town eliminating the 3p on policy will fuck them over because they are not eliminating scum.)

I didn't want to deal with the arguments of "mastina could be scum, fakeclaiming 3p", in spite of the fact that I never fakeclaim as scum.

I didn't want to deal with the arguments of "mastina could be lying about being benevolent/benign 3p", which, being paranoia-based, I have no real ability to defend against.

I didn't want to deal with lazy town players not bothering to read my claim and thinking "oh survivor = basically 4th scum" in spite of the fact that, no, actually, I cannot in fact scumside because with 3 or 2 scum alive I don't win even if I live.

You know, the arguments: "mastina just admitted to not being town", "mastina isn't town", "mastina could be lying", "mastina might end the game in a solo win", "mastina could be scum fakeclaiming 3p", and such.

Given that I was playing as if I was town, I figured that by virtue of being obvtown due to not being scum and being, well, me, mastina, that I wouldn't need to claim 3p at all if I was just that obviously town anyway. So if I could get away with just pretending I was town, I would do so, and win with the town after eliminating the third scum. The town would never know I was 3p because I was acting as town the entire time, needed two scum dead in order to win anyway, and was working with the town as basically a fullblown town bulletproof which would allow me to relentlessly hunt down and eliminate the scum as if I were town.

With the caveat of the two potential scenarios where I would need to claim.

The first scenario is if someone just directly bluntly to my face asked me, "mastina, are you 3p?". Nobody did directly, but had they, that'd indicate that they would not go murderboner for eliminating claimed 3p and would in fact be willing to work with me. Town players willing to work with someone who basically is already town anyway? Of course I'd claim in a scenario with that, it'd be antitown to not.

The second scenario is what has happened: when not claiming would actually hurt the town.

CheekyTeeky's result means exactly that. If I pretended to be town when I am not, it could actually lead to a mislim on a player that I knew to be town--and given that I am trying my damnedest to be basically full-townside, I needed to speak up to prevent that and conftown the players who I know to be conftown from the CheekyTeeky result.

However, while I did indeed want to not claim unless one of those two scenarios came up, I did leave an abundantly clear loaf (breadcrumbs but so abundant that they're a full-ass loaf) in my iso where I would let you all know:
Spoiler: I REALLY didn't want to spoiler this because I REALLY wanted y'all to read it all but I ended up quoting enough that I think I need it, sadly
In post 6, mastina wrote:I was expecting to get different alignments from different games but I ended up with basically the same thing in all three games. :P
"basically the same", but not THE same. Because game #2 I am a survivor, that needs scum dead in a way that makes it basically a Town Survivor, just...not technically town.
In post 147, mastina wrote:
In post 135, Almost50 wrote:Did you roll Scum with House in setup 1 or 2??
I'm not scum at all.
Notice that in response to Almost50, I didn't say "I'm town in all 3 games"; I said "I'm not scum at all". Because I couldn't say I was town in all 3 games because technically speaking I'm not even though the type of nontown I am is basically town anyway.

I said I wasn't scum at all because I'm in fact, not scum in any game.
In post 219, mastina wrote:BTW I can doubly prove that I am not scum in all 3 games.

The first proof is that I didn't know that this this game had secret alts or readable pts as a Mechanic.

Because my role pm was just three roles, no account info at all.

The second proof?

I am phoneposting at work.

I work 4//7 days.

With a phone that is glitchy.
It literally keeps spazzing out, proof being: this post.

I can't be any scum accounts which posts while I am at work.
Here is a (I corrected the phone-induced errors of the original) hard-'town'slip. (It's not a townslip because I'm not town but I don't have a better term to use. It's like an anti-scumslip in that it's proof that I cannot be scum, but not proof that I am town.)

Basically, I was at work, posting with the game open for the first time, on my phone.

I saw people referencing secret alts and scum/masons, with them being able to post in a PT. (I was additionally under the impression that said PT(s) were public, readable by people not able to post in it.)

I, mistakenly, believed that to be something that applied to all three games.

As in, game #2 and game #1 would also have secret alts for the scumteam.

This is, apparently, not actually the case--which I would know if I had drawn scum in either game 1 or game 2.

But I didn't know that the secret alts were a specific mechanic to game #3 because I drew uninformed in all three games.

Once more, though, you may note the usage: "prove that I am not scum", rather than 'prove that I am town'.
Because, if it was necessary, I wanted to leave it open for the chance for me to claim 3p if need be, if either of the two claim-conditions happened to come true (which the second one did).

In post 349, mastina wrote:
In post 176, Almost50 wrote: What IS the plan here?
Kill all the scum in all the games, get a triple town win. :P
I didn't say that *I* was town here, I just said that I wanted a triple town win from killing all the scum in all the games. Which is true; I want all the scum dead in all the games and that should generate a triple town win since I can in fact win with the town in spite of technically not being town due to basically still being town.

In post 356, mastina wrote:And it should be painfully obvious that, no, I do not in fact have alt account access. And that, no, I do not have any scumgames here.
I don't have any scumgames here, but I didn't say "I have 3 towngames". (Since again, technically not a towngame even tho it pragmatically speaking is one.)

In post 608, mastina wrote:Phoneposting, so I'll have more to say when home, but:
2: I an hard counterclaiming bulletproof in game two.
So Meg is scum there, too. I can and will explain when home.
VOTE: MegAzumarill
In post 610, mastina wrote:
In post 38, mastina wrote:BTW I should mention in the mini theme, my role has two parts. One part, I'd normally claim on D1, but due to the other half, I cannot. Basically, one half of my role loses utility if I claim either it or the other half, even though I normally would claim it. Phoneposting and this game's not my top priority right now, but I hope to post again later tonight.
Guess what role loses value when claimed? Bulletproof!
The other half is a very specific type of miller tho. I can explain better when not bloody phoneposting from a shitty ass glitchy phone.

I was hoping to draw a night kill in game two from not claiming either the bp or miller (because scum aren't going to shoot a miller), but hey, if Meg is going to out themselves as scum by claiming my role, I'll take dead scum over a failed shot on me.
In post 624, mastina wrote:
In post 613, mastina wrote:
In post 612, T3 wrote:um. meg said it was a joke claim.
Well I didn't read that far. I was reading offline and saw Meg claim my role, so I instantly logged in to counterclaim.
Vote stays as I think Meg is still scum even with a retraction of "it a s a joke".
Can explain when home why I think that Meg is scum in game two.
Suffice to say, you can fuck off if you think that I am scum in any of the games.
I'm not.
In post 627, mastina wrote:
In post 443, T3 wrote:Mastina feels weird. It's like her posts don't have much depth.
"don't have much depth", my ass.

This is literally deeper reads than is physically possible in any other game.

Like, in any other game, you're reading things off of just the one game.

Here I am literally generating reads on three different games.

And I am giving reads and reasons for all of them.
I don't have the perfect ability to break down every game down game by game--but I'm as close as damn fucking possible on D1 of 2/3 of the games.

Reads don't get deeper than that.

In what way do you think they're shallow? Because I can fucking explain each and every single read I've got and surprise surprise! So far, most of my reads have been right in game three! And they are probably right in the other games more than they aren't, because I'm pretty fucking sure that this game's mechanic is the type of thing that I am MADE for solving. That I EXCEL at figuring out.

I'm also literally putting in more effort here than I've ever put into a game before--my intention was to draw the scum nightkill in game two, but failing that, I can still be nightkilled in game one, because I am being just that town. And yet, the scum can't actually shut me up, because I can't die in game two. Which is why I felt extra incentivized to try hard here. I can't die in game two, meaning that I can't TRULY die in ANY of the games, meaning that scum cannot get rid of me. (Well, barring a scum strongman in game two, which if it exists...shit. Hopefully not tho. :P)

So you can fuck off with calling my reads lacking depth--they have more depth in this game than they have ever had in ANY prior game of mine.

In post 418, Ircher wrote:mastina is town in precisely 2/3 games.
Do you think that because you are scum in 2/3 and town in the third and thus you know me to be town in the two you are scum and are guessing the inverse for the game you aren't scum?

'Cause that's what this looks like to me!
In post 628, mastina wrote:
In post 496, MegAzumarill wrote:I am a Bulletproof (other words I didn't read) In Game B
I am 100% serious.
For the record--this is what I saw before I stopped reading on my phone to log in. I didn't even read the entirety of the claim.

I just saw 'bulletproof' and '100% serious' and INSTANTLY scrolled up to hit the login button to counterclaim because there was no fucking chance in hell of there being two bulletproofs in a mini game in my opinion.

Even with it apparently being a joke, I think that Meg's scum anyway. There's multiple reasons for this. I've not read the game thread yet so not sure how the "it was a joke" came up, but. I don't think it was actually meant as a joke. I think that Meg was genuinely trying to get away with it, but decided to change it to a joke later.

I think that the claim was made with scum knowledge about the setup in setup #2 because of the things being claimed.
I think that Meg's claim was designed to get reactions--in hindsight, I shouldn't have claimed because it got the reaction it was looking for (I could've pushed Meg without claiming so probably should've but oh well, is too late now, hindsight 20/20), but I think that the claim was made basically as a way of testing the waters and seeing if Meg could fish out extra information about the town in game #2.

I genuinely think that the claim came from a position of both scum information, and scum agenda, in that it was designed to try and further the scum wincon in game #2.
Here, it takes some explaining, but: basically, I saw MegAzumarill claim a third party and claim bulletproof and my thought instantly jumped to, "MegAzumarill is scum in game #2 who has TMI" and was thus not joking.

I was in fact planning to draw nightkills in game #2 (again, being bulletproof and being basically a town survivor that needs scum dead, drawing scum kills to me is a GOOD thing because they couldn't kill me and it'd put the town in a better position). However, I saw MegAzumarill's claim as hard proof that Meg was informed scum in game #2.

You may notice again: "I'm not scum in any of the games". I'm in fact not scum in any of the games! But I didn't say town in all of them because while I might be basically-town in game #2 I am technically not town.

There was in fact depth to my reads tho because I was dead serious in all of them. I, again, was attempting to get nightkilled in game #2. As a bulletproof, who needs scum dead in order to win, I needed to be playing as if I was town and furthering the town wincon. Meaning that I needed to be as town as I've ever been before, townier than that in fact.

I do think that Ircher also TMI'd tho--Ircher said, "mastina is town in precisely 2/3 of the games". That was in fact right. But why those words instead of "mastina is scum in 1/3 of the games"? It feels like Ircher was saying exactly what he meant to say because he knew it'd be exactly the truth. He can point to and say he was 100% correct--but him being 100% correct is actually the problem. He shouldn't have had any inkling of me being non-town-but-not-scum in game #2. Because again, I was powertowning, more than I've ever towned before.

In post 629, mastina wrote:
In post 535, Almost50 wrote:Please explain to the class why a TOWN PLAYER IN GAME THREE would "intend" to tell the scum they are not a Mason??
As part of clearing me across all three games.

So basically.

I did not know about the mechanics in game #3 of there being secret alts on masons and mafias.

I thus also did not know that the mechanic was specific to game three.

I was on my phone at the time, so I couldn't delve into checking things more closely.

So I assumed that I, via not being scum in any of the games, had missed a core game mechanic where every scum/mason in every game had a secret alt and a public PT to talk in.

Under that assumption, I could clear myself as being not scum in any of the three games by specifying that I did not receive any alt account info or PT links in my role PMs. The process would, unfortunately, out me as not a mason in game #3...but the process would also conftown me across all three games, and conftowning myself across all three games is something I valued more than the chance of scum shooting me wrongly as a mason in game #3.

Now, granted. Apparently, that assumption was wrong. There are not scum alt accounts for each game with a public scum PT in each of the games. But on my phone at the time, I had no way of knowing it was wrong.
This is me explaining the townslip (well, slip of not being scum) further, but note again that I used 'not scum in any game', because I am in fact: not scum in any game!

In post 630, mastina wrote:
In post 557, T3 wrote:
In post 523, Dwlee99 wrote:Mega's claim there is very scummy for both games if that's what you're basing this off of
I think Meg implied that their claim was not serious
Having seen that it was implied and not actually explicitly stated, I am again reminding you that Meg is like 200% scum in game #2.
Again, I thought that Meg was TMI'ing in game #2 with the claim and was trying to bait me out.

In post 631, mastina wrote:
In post 615, Dunnstral wrote:They didn't even claim to be town in Game B so the rush to counterclaim is weird
Look I saw 'bulletproof', 'game 2', and '100% serious' (those words specifically, and nothing else in the post), and instantly saw red.

As in, MegAzumarill being red.

So given that I had a very limited amount of time and my phone makes posting the most frustrating borderline-impossible-yet-I-still-try thing in the world, I wasn't going to wait; I was going to make it clear that Meg was full of shit.

In post 612, T3 wrote:um. meg said it was a joke claim.
Having read Meg's posts?

Didn't happen. Not explicitly.

And the way it hasn't happened is explicitly part of the problem.

It doesn't matter even if MegAzumarill chimes in now and goes "Um, yeah, I was obviously joking?" explicitly--the drawn out way of implying it wasn't serious combined with my feelings on Meg's claim in general means that Meg is scum in game #2 anyway.

Btw since I am now home, I can fullclaim.
In Game #2, I'm an Activated Combined Bulletproof Miller (it's not called that in my role PM, but that's what the role boils down to being in effect, can paraphrase the flavor if people really want me to).
As in, I can activate a Bulletproof every single night; if I do so, I become a Miller that night.
The Miller though specifies that I do not appear as town to an alignment investigation. Meaning that I should be a Miller to precisely one role and would appear town to all others.
I should appear as "not scum" to an alignment cop who receives results in the form of "scum/not scum";
I should appear as "does not have a gun" to a gunsmith;
I should appear as "cannot kill" to a psychiatrist;
I should appear as "has not killed" to a detective;
I should not show as visiting anyone to a tracker (maybe maybe MAYBE self-visiting, depending on whether the Activation counts, but I don't think it does);
I should not show as visiting anyone to a follower (maybe maybe MAYBE 'protective', depending on whether the Activation counts, but I don't think it does);
You get the idea.

I can't become conftown in game #2 while using the bulletproof, which I assume is to prevent someone from doing follow the cop and making me an invincible conftown in game #2.

But it shouldn't be an issue--I am pretty damn obviously town anyway, so like. While I can't become conftown while using the BP, I can become basically conftown. (And if you doubt me, you can in fact use those other roles to investigate me and confirm me, altho it would explicitly be a waste. I am painfully obviously town here so like. Your actions are better used in actually narrowing down who the scum are.)

I wanted to claim the Miller initially, but I couldn't do so without making the Bulletproof worthless. Scum aren't going to shoot a Miller because towns usually policy-eliminate Millers before lylo given that Millers cannot be confirmed as town. I figured that it wouldn't be an issue given that I should show as a guilty to specifically one and ONLY one role and not a guilty to literally all others, and because I am pretty damn obviously town.

Claiming the bulletproof on D1 when I wasn't intending to is a bit unfortunate, but I'll take a free dead scum in game #2 over the possibility (not guarantee) of being shot N1 in game #2.
Here I again explain why I thought that Meg TMI'd as being scum in game #2.

Beyond that, I laid out a modified version of my trueclaim.

I am not actually a miller, obviously.
But what I said there remains true:
I should appear as "not scum" to an alignment cop who receives results in the form of "scum/not scum";
I should appear as "does not have a gun" to a gunsmith;
I should appear as "cannot kill" to a psychiatrist;
I should appear as "has not killed" to a detective;
I should not show as visiting anyone to a tracker (maybe maybe MAYBE self-visiting, depending on whether the Activation counts, but I don't think it does);
I should not show as visiting anyone to a follower (maybe maybe MAYBE 'protective', depending on whether the Activation counts, but I don't think it does).

All of those remain true because they are all actually true--I'm still basically town here. I show as the town result to almost every investigation, I'm not groupscum, I require scum to be dead in order to win, for all intents and purposes, I'm basically just town. Just, technically am not town due to technically not being town.

In post 1028, mastina wrote:DID I NOT FUCKING HARD TOWNSLIP BY NOT BEING AWARE OF THE FUCKING NATURE OF THE SCUM/MASONS IN GAME THREE.
DID I NOT FUCKING TELL YOU YOU FUCKERS COULD FUCK OFF IF YOU THOUGHT I WAS SCUM BECAUSE I NEVER FUCKING AM.

So fuck off with accusations of me being scum EVER again and hammering me when I'm fucking sleeping.
I again say "never am scum" here, because I'm not, but don't say 'always town', because that'd have been a lie.

I did fuck up in in saying 'town in all 3' tho. :oops:
I genuinely meant to say 'not scum', probably was too angry to notice the slip-up in breadcrumbing so I apologize for that.

In post 1032, mastina wrote:
In post 950, Dwlee99 wrote:I agree with ircher bigly
Fuck off, Dwlee.

I'm ticked enough that I got eliminated in ONE game.

I'm not going down when I have been putting in more effort than ever before in all three games.
Not a breadcrumb per se but this shows my mindset here:

I am not power-efforting scum; I am in fact, basically town in all three games (even though I am technically not town).

And there is some survivalism involved--because, natch, am a Survivor.

In post 1039, mastina wrote:
In post 1031, Lady Chloe wrote:Mastina, town won because of T3's misfire.
Yes but I didn't know that when I was posting. I do now. But I didn't.

And just because they won doesn't mean I cannot be fucking pissed that you fucking mislimmed me while I was sleeping that game--it is a show of a (lack of) integrity.

Also need I remind you that I am at, what, L-2 now in both remaining games?

From "mastina is scum in 1/3 games" 'logic' that nobody backs up because there isn't any fucking logic had in a bullshit statement like that which goes contrary to everything?

I still have a right to be fucking furious here and I am enacting that right until the only votes on me are from scum.
This remains true but was another further hint at my role, in case I needed to claim it. (Which, thanks to the result, I do.)

In post 1040, mastina wrote:
In post 1037, Dwlee99 wrote:Love getting cursed at for... winning
I have the right to curse at you for fucking voting me out both in game three and AFTER SEEING THAT I WAS TOWN THERE then deciding to vote me in BOTH THE REMAINING GAMES.

In spite of, yaknow.

Maybe.

Just maybe.

My play in game #3 showing proof that I'm not playing towards scum in any of the games?

I've been solving all three games from the onset. I've not been solving one game; I've been solving ALL of them. My reads are cross-game applying to ALL of them. So if you see me fucking flip town in game 3 after being fucking wrong there and then go on to proceed to VOTE ME IN BOTH REMAINING GAMES, I do in fact get to say:

Fuck. off.
Here I again say "not scum" (because I'm not) rather than "town" (because I'm technically not).

In post 1044, mastina wrote:
In post 1041, Ircher wrote:You're town in precisely two because you are doing your standard wallposts, but at the same time, I can see you are pushing an agenda.
The agenda was attempting to get fucking nightkilled in game #2 by being fucking bulletproof and knowing that, via being bulletproof in game #2, I couldn't truly die in either of the other two. As in, due to being bulletproof in game #2, I couldn't have my voice removed in game #1.

The only way to get rid of me would be via town idiocy in fucking eliminating a fucking BULLETPROOF. (That or a scum strongman but like--forcing scum to use the strongman > doing the fucking scum's work for them.)

In post 1041, Ircher wrote:The question is which game of 1/2 you are town in and which one you are scum in.
I'm not scum in ANY of the games because I fucking hard-townslipped in a way that I was fucking incapable of doing if I were scum.

In post 1041, Ircher wrote:I lean towards you being scum in game 2 based on how you felt compelled to counterclaim a joke claim.
That was not a joke claim from Meg, and I've explained why it was not a joke claim.

In post 1041, Ircher wrote:Even if you believe this, it is still pretty poor form to immediately jump to counterclaim. You could have waited until you knew all the facts; it wasn't like you were in danger or anything.
This critique is proof that Ircher does not believe I am actually scum.

In post 1041, Ircher wrote:A claim as outrageous as the one Meg made doesn't require an explicit "it's a joke". I understand that reading jokes isn't your forte; it isn't mine either, but you really can't be using this as the primary basis for your read on Meg. (Also, in before you use this to reinforce your associative read on us.)
I'm not.

The claim isn't a joke not because it was serious.

It's not a joke because it was still tactical. It wasn't made without rhyme or reason. It was deliberate. It wasn't whimsy, it wasn't something done spontaneously. It was done strategically.

And THAT is why it is scum.

In post 1041, Ircher wrote: First, you are assuming scum are playing optimally.
Yeah and if I was scum in game #2 no fucking shit I'd use the role optimally.

And using the role to vote a player and give away the scum extra vote without hammering is using it suboptimally--it means that every town player should treat L-2 as if it were L-1 and thus force extra caution, meaning the scum vote is basically worthless
Here you get more hints. I again emphasize "not scum in any game", rather than "town in all 3 games", and I again point out Ircher's TMI and why I thought Meg had TMI. (I was wrong on Meg having TMI but I believe I am right on Ircher having had TMI in his read on me--he had me as 'not town', but his posts didn't indicate he thought I was scum, thus, he correctly identified me as 3p when he should not have been able to as town.)

I'll say that the agenda remains true; my agenda is to survive game #2 and kill all the scum because I can't win with them pretty much.

In post 1047, mastina wrote:And I have been playing to my fucking town meta in ALL of them because guess what? Not scum in any of them.

That I wasn't playing with an agenda was already proven in game #3.

It would also be proven if I was fucking mislimmed in both games 1 and 2 because I am not fucking scum in all three and transparently so.
This remains true; I am not scum in any of the games and transparently so.

I am playing to my town meta in all three games, because while I'm technically not town in all 3, I'm basically town in all three.

I will say that I very strongly believed Meg to be scum TMI'ing in game #2 and wanted to eliminate Meg to basically hard-clear myself. If Meg flipped scum in game #2, then it'd clear me from being scum, meaning that people couldn't pull the bullshit "mastina is lying about being 3p" because I bloody killed scum.

Which, by the way, I can still do in the form of Dwlee and probably Ircher.

In post 1334, mastina wrote:It's a bit of a cheap strategy, I admit, but I am NOT letting myself be mislimmed, so literally any (technically legal) trick I can use, I will.
The motivation for this should be obvious:

As a survivor, I need to survive.
As not scum, I have an easy way to mostly prove I am not scum.
As such, I resorted to this in order to avoid my elimination.

In post 1336, mastina wrote:(And yes, I did feel the need to resort to this. I am not being eliminated as a fucking bulletproof again. It's happened before and I am determined to make it never happen again. I could have obviously cleared myself if Meg flipped scum, but since Meg did not, I need to find and eliminate an actual scum in order to actually clear myself.)
Here I laid out my strategy and basically said: "I'm not dieing as third party again". (As a reminder, last time I claimed 3p I got modkilled but I know Jingle's a lot more laxed on rules than unwnd so the fear is more from the town than the wrath of mod.) I laid out my plan, my strategy, to clear myself of being scum by having eliminated scum. It'd not eliminate paranoia of me being malevolent 3p but it'd guarantee that people would see me as not-groupscum at the very least.

In post 1374, mastina wrote:
In post 1368, Dwlee99 wrote:Mastina you're angleshooting very hard and I think it is in poor taste regardless of your alignment here
Poor taste? Sure! But it's not against the rules.
And playing to my wincon > having good taste.

As long as its not a violation of site rules, I'm obligated to try and do everything to win. And angleshooting to conftown myself is doing precisely that.

Being mislimmed as a BP is the only losecon I can see, so avoiding it at all costs is playing to win.
Here I basically was claiming my real role anyway. I am obligated to do everything to win--as a Survivor, that means being confirmed as not groupscum is playing to my wincon. Being eliminated (which, to be clear, is still a mislim because I am not scum, I'm basically town even if I'm technically not because I require scum to be dead in order to win meaning that I am playing to the town wincon and thus, eliminating me IS a mislim!) obviously causes a Survivor to lose, so...

In post 1383, mastina wrote:I SHOULD be obvtown by play.
I CAN'T pull this shit off as scum.
I DID hard townslip.
But in spite of this being THE TOWNIEST I'VE EVER BEEN, I'm STILL at risk of being mislimmed as a fucking bulletproof, who scum CAN'T kill, barring them burning a strongman.
So damn right I'm going to use EVERY tool in my arsenal to avert that.
More laying out that I am not scum and am playing to the town wincon.

In post 1557, mastina wrote:
In post 1506, CheekyTeeky wrote:
In post 1173, Jingle wrote:
Vote Count Mini Theme.1.01MegAzumarill (E-0): Demon Lord, , , , , ,
So I'm a wagon analyzer (what I've called it) and my result was that the wagon had 4 alignment differences between voters on MegA. I'm just trying to confirm if it includes demon lord, but that's a pretty colourful wagon ^.^
I'm too tired to do proper analysis here but I think that this conftowns House, barring a town Demon Lord claim. (Since a Demon Lord won't claim tho, House should be conftown from it.)

From there, the options for the remaining three are:
-House->me->Cheeky (2/3) (would require me to not be town tho obv and still would leave a final alignment change--for instance, if the change was at RR then RR and Dwlee would both be scum; if the change was at Dwlee then Dwlee would be scum)
-me->Cheeky->T3 (2/3) (would require Cheeky to not be town tho in spite of this being Cheeky giving the result--seems kinda ridiculous)
-Cheeky->T3->RR->Dwlee (3/3) (would mean T3 and Dwlee are scum I think?)

I might not be thinking of all the possibilities but my townreads on T3/Dwlee do not override the chance of there being scum there.

I'm pretty sure that if you assume Cheeky is town here, then the only possible nontown are {mastina, T3, Dwlee} here?

Again, might be not thinking, should be more lucid to give it a better thought runthrough.

But I think that regardless, Dwlee might be confscum here?
VOTE: Dwlee99
Not sure, feel free to correct me, am tired, not thinking at full capacity, but I think that it has to fit regardless of your thoughts elsewhere.

In post 1519, CheekyTeeky wrote:So T3 or RR likely middle scum. House could be scum and Dwlee definitely scum.
I might be overlooking in my tiredness the RR scum world, I can't figure the math out there right now but that's probably where I am flawed in thinking.
At this point, I was already committing to claiming my status as third party, I just wanted Dwlee as scum dead first because if Dwlee died and flipped scum, that'd be the time for me to out myself.

But with Dwlee admitting they're scum, that moved up the timetable from "after the D2 elimination on Dwlee" to right now.

And to be clear, I do in fact know that Dwlee must be confscum. Even if they didn't confess, by knowing I'm 2/4 of the alignment changes, and with the Demon Lord as a third, that meant that the fourth must mean Dwlee was scum.


So what does all of this mean?

In post 1506, CheekyTeeky wrote:
In post 1173, Jingle wrote:
Vote Count Mini Theme.1.01MegAzumarill (E-0): Demon Lord, , , , , , , HAMMER!
So I'm a wagon analyzer (what I've called it) and my result was that the wagon had 4 alignment differences between voters on MegA. I'm just trying to confirm if it includes demon lord, but that's a pretty colourful wagon ^.^


What this means is that 3/4 of the shifts are:
Demon Lord<1>House<2>mastina<3>CheekyTeeky<->T3<->Radical Rat<->Dwlee99

With the fourth and final alignment shift being after CheekyTeeky.

Which means the possibilities, most likely to least likely, are:

1: CheekyTeeky<->T3<->Radical Rat<4>Dwlee99 (one scum on wagon, two off)
2: CheekyTeeky<->T3<4>Radical Rat<->Dwlee99 (two scum, RR+Dwlee back to back, on wagon, one off)
3: CheekyTeeky<4>T3<->Radical Rat<->Dwlee99 (all three scum on the wagon hammering it, as T3+RR+Dwlee)

What does this mean?

House and CheekyTeeky are confirmed as town.
If Radical Rat flips town, it confirms that T3 is conftown.
Dwlee is confscum no matter what.


As for who I think is scum off the wagon...

In post 1173, Jingle wrote:
Vote Count Mini Theme.1.01Radical Rat (E-4): , , ,
Dunnstral (E-6): ,
Not Voting (2): , ,
Almost50's town in all games.
So is Lady Chloe/Taly.
RCE is probably town in game #3.

So that leaves the possible scum off the wagon as:
{Ircher, Amy Dunne, Dunnstral}

If the scumteam is {T3, Radical Rat, Dwlee99} those three would be all town;
If the scumteam has {Radical Rat, Dwlee99} then those three would have 1/3 be scum;
If Radical Rat is town, then those three would have 2/3 be scum.

I believe that {Amy Dunne, Dunnstral} has 1 scum and that Ircher is just scum in game #2.

(And yes, to be clear for the reading impaired: I need scum dead in game #2, and cannot win with 2/3 scum alive. Meaning that for all intents and purposes, I'm basically town.)

mastina
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Post Post #1663  (ISO)  » Tue Dec 07, 2021 2:53 am

I'll now be taking questions.

(...By which I mean.
"Too long, didn't read."s;
"Let's eliminate mastina, it's safe to do so"s;
"mastina's scum in game #2"s;
"so mastina needs to die in game #2 right?"s;
"mastina's incentivized to scumside" fuckers who didn't read that no I actually can't scumside even if I wanted to and no I never would want to;
etc.
And maybe actually questions from the more enlightened town players. :P)

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Post Post #1664  (ISO)  » Tue Dec 07, 2021 3:19 am

So mastina needs to die in game #2 right?

Sorry, couldn't resist. But yeah, that all sounds pretty reasonable. Do you have any opinions on who we should lim in Game 1 before Dwlee?

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Post Post #1665  (ISO)  » Tue Dec 07, 2021 3:34 am

*pops in*
Radical Rat still needs to die.
mastina votes in game 2 are acceptable.
*pops out*
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Post Post #1666  (ISO)  » Tue Dec 07, 2021 4:01 am

In post 1665, House wrote:mastina votes in game 2 are acceptable.
Oh yeah dealing with this bullshit is also among the things I didn't really want to have to deal with. (it's not a "mastina must die", it's not quite "3p = acceptable loss", it's not any of the others I said previously, but it's among the things that any 3p claim will entail.)

In post 1664, Radical Rat wrote:Do you have any opinions on who we should lim in Game 1 before Dwlee?
{Ircher, Dunnstral, Amy Dunne} is a good place to start. I realize that's also a group I think has 2/3 of the scum in the mini theme but I still think that group contains at least 1 scum in the mini normal, too.

You can add yourself to the list of players in the mini normal for me--not as a guarantee, but as a plausibility that I cannot ignore.

A50's town; Lady Chloe's town; House is town; CheekyTeeky is almost certainly town.

Beyond that, I think that T3 is town but not to the extent of the above;
With Dwlee as town in game #1, that'd leave possible scum as:
{Radical Rat, Amy Dunne, Dunnstral, Ircher} and maybe maybe T3.

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Post Post #1667  (ISO)  » Tue Dec 07, 2021 4:49 am

In post 1666, mastina wrote:Oh yeah dealing with this bullshit is also among the things I didn't really want to have to deal with. (it's not a "mastina must die", it's not quite "3p = acceptable loss", it's not any of the others I said previously, but it's among the things that any 3p claim will entail.)

I always call for the death of any 3p because they count against town majority.

You know this.
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Post Post #1668  (ISO)  » Tue Dec 07, 2021 5:27 am

In post 1655, Amy Dunne wrote:
In post 1651, CheekyTeeky wrote:RR has already flipped scum in C and has been posting a lot more since that flip. I don't understand why he's the lim in A?


I ISO’d RCE earlier and couldn’t find anything that looked remotely like a soft and RCE has never played with scum!RR, not recently anyway. I didn’t bother looking at anything past 2020.

So, it really makes no sense that scum!RR would want RCE dead here.

I've never seen this rat in my life

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Post Post #1669  (ISO)  » Tue Dec 07, 2021 5:30 am

In post 1656, Ircher wrote:
In post 1651, CheekyTeeky wrote:RR has already flipped scum in C and has been posting a lot more since that flip. I don't understand why he's the lim in A?

Increased engagement does not equate town.

It doesn't. But halting the elim on dwlee to sort game A Dwlee's alignment and coordinate a better elim does.

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Post Post #1670  (ISO)  » Tue Dec 07, 2021 7:53 am

In post 1665, House wrote:*pops in*
Radical Rat still needs to die.
mastina votes in game 2 are acceptable.
*pops out*


You must refute my hesitance to sacrifice them for their increase in posting rate for me to consider.
Yes, this is Taly. Yes, I accept she/her pronouns on this alt. Yes, I am a cis-man. Yes, I am experimenting with gender fluidity.

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Post Post #1671  (ISO)  » Tue Dec 07, 2021 9:51 am

mastina, I'm not scum. I just not very engaged with the game rn. Nothing interesting is happening.
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Post Post #1672  (ISO)  » Tue Dec 07, 2021 10:08 am

I think mastina is the demon lord
I prefer they, thanks :)

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Post Post #1673  (ISO)  » Tue Dec 07, 2021 10:14 am

In post 1652, Lady Chloe wrote:{House/Dunnstral/Dwlee/Ircher} is too obvious, no?

In post 1653, Lady Chloe wrote:Oh wait, mini tends to have 3 scoundrels a game...

... I need my beauty sleep.


I was gonna say you're missing 2 more unless you think 2 of these are scum in both games.

So, I'll repeat my request in a more explicit phrasing: Please state clearly which game you are giving your reads on. I don't want to end up voting someone because they cheered the lim of X in one game only to get them respond by "I was talking about the other game". I don't want to FoS someone for staying off the wagon on someone they said was conf!Scum (and flipped scum) only for them to respond with "I didn't mean in this game". I want to be able to analyze stances in each game separately
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Post Post #1674  (ISO)  » Tue Dec 07, 2021 10:16 am

In post 1660, CheekyTeeky wrote:Wait how are Dunn and Dwlee voting in A but not B?


O haven't checked, but my guess is they voted while Game B was still at night phase
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