micro 1096: planned idea [game over]

[MargotRosa]

Heyo friends, let's do this

[MargotRosa]

It's pretty delightful coming back after a few years and still recognising a lot of the names

[MargotRosa]

Have to catch up on the thread

[MargotRosa]

Trying to get a bead on it, and honestly I don't quite understand what happened. Kind of just feels like normal D1 progression that derailed because people's emotions were a little high.

For what it's worth, when I played with Roden last, they were scum and strategically stayed apart and above the emotional turmoil, and instead actively manipulated those emotions for the win. I know Roden was town here, because I am now Roden, so it makes sense that they'd be more all over the place and susceptible to it all.

Still getting situated in the game more generally, so don't have a proper reads list, but that's my initial take

[MargotRosa]

First take is that reading Koba's posting is always hilarious, and quote-replying the same post in the same of two subsequent posts (55 and 56) is very on brand

[MargotRosa]

Ok, initial thoughts are that the solve is in Black or HPE (one of the two, not both), TL1R and Shadow.

Ausuka is easy Town Lock and Koba's play seems too natural to me. It's been a while, and I'm rusty as hell with a bad streak thus far in the return, so take it all with a grain of salt, and I'll do another reread later today

[MargotRosa]

Ok, initial thoughts are that the solve is in Black or HPE (one of the two, not both), TL1R and Shadow.

Ausuka is easy Town Lock and Koba's play seems too natural to me. It's been a while, and I'm rusty as hell with a bad streak thus far in the return, so take it all with a grain of salt, and I'll do another reread later today

About your initial thought, why did you think a solve is in Black or HPE? By Ausuka being a town lock, are you saying you normally find it easy to town lock Ausuka or are you town locking Ausuka in this game?

- A

I'm more saying that I think it could be one or the other, but not both, as one of my potential solves (not that it's definitely one of the two).

It was an initial impulse born honestly more from a gut read of their exchange pages 6 and 7:

VOTE: HPE

UNVOTE: Ausuka
RVS E-2... scawy!

Why so afraid?

cause a flip this early is a terrible idea lol

I'm curious why you didn't say this in 87

It feels more like you were riding the fence in that post when I would expect someone with this belief to be more critical of the shadow wagon

Not sure what non-criticality you're reading from "completely and utterly terrifying"

What are you terrified of exactly? Scum getting a quick misfade on someone?

That's a lesser concern compared to a painfully early shot in the dark funny ass flashwagon being basically devoid of info other than "well why did you guys flip them so early" to which everyone shrugs and says "shitpost". NO VCA, NO post-flip recontextualization of interactions, NO seeing who die hard townread the scum flip, nunna that. The longer a day goes, the better it is for town (in the long run atleast).

Do you think scum was pushing the shadow wagon?

Honestly? One scum on that wagon with the plausible deniability of RVS is likely, yes. Ausuka's too, perhaps.

HPE's posting here felt incredibly jumpy, and more concerned with not appearing to be pegged as a wagoner early on, as opposed to someone trying to engage in scum hunting. Black's responses, on the other hand, I can easily see as post hoc justification for the HPE vote which happened here: 127. I don't believe the exchange basically, but I also don't think that this is SvS, which means only one, if any, can be scum.

[MargotRosa]

As for Ausuka, I've never seen townier town play in my life. I can comb through the ISO to grab examples, but yeah, I'm town locking Ausuka in this game 100%

[MargotRosa]

Is piggybacking somebody inherently scummy?

- Theran

If the player is just going to piggyback without giving their own takes then yes it does look scummy. I don't recall seeing HPE give a single take that is not about wagons. It said it gave takes when it was arguing with Roden. I have read this interaction 3 times and it just looks like they are attacking each other. An interaction like that they had was not helpful for me on getting a read out of that.

- A

Again, if you looked at that argument and couldn't get anything on me or Roden from me picking his push apart in 277, that's kinda on you? Roden argued exclusively in bad faith.

This whole game is so silly at this point, and you going on about whether or not Roden was arguing in bad faith, which scum Roden would never do, is not really helping.

Honestly, all this looks like to me is someone going after the one slot I can be 100% certain is Town, because I am town, with the same argument, and all that does is make me more and more likely to scum read you.

Honestly, this is all a very easy replacement for me, because I haven't needed to move the vote at all lol

[MargotRosa]

I explained this in my attempt at understanding Roden's play,m which you asked for when I joined the game?

I honestly don't understand this adversarial gameplay, can someone else explain whether this is expected playstyle for the slot?

[MargotRosa]

Sorry for absence, was still coming back up from a health downswing, catching up now

[MargotRosa]

In response to the finger pointing, I don't know what you all want from me lol. I came in to a game late, I was recovering from, and then relapsed back into, a health downswing, and d1 is my least favourite part of mafia because it's all just people swinging into the dark going off absolutely nothing whatsoever other than 'vibes', all of which meant I wasn't particularly keen to duck back into a game where everyone was posting off high emotions, and felt justified sitting on high horses and supreme confidence on reads based on negligible information.

The Ausuka read was a vibes thing, I thought it was a good read, I don't know what to tell you.

But hell, if it makes you all feel better:

VOTE: Ausukua

[MargotRosa]

VOTE: Ausuka misspelled sorry

[MargotRosa]

For what it's worth, my read was predominantly based on coming into the game with confident play and soft reads, combined with the fact that she dragged everyone out of RvS while playing it out long enough to potentially get some info off the meme Shadow wagon, while having good explanations for everything she had been doing up until that point

[MargotRosa]

VOTE: Ausuka misspelled sorry

requesting you to claim, im going to hammer you by default here. i have hammer on you and ausuka right now. i prefer a wagon on flarefluff however.

The so bizarre I couldn't make it up Town Detector Detector, who can tell if a person they visit at night is also a detector

[MargotRosa]

I don't particularly want to die, and I know I'm Town, but I also think you're probably hitting Town either way. Giving you the other wagon mostly because if I'm wrong, and Ausuka isn't Town, then at least I didn't block Town from the win. I'm sorry you are in this spot Koba

[MargotRosa]

If you are going to hammer me, let me at least read through the thread and put together a proper final read list for you before you do. I've been pretty flaky and feel bad, and want to have contributed that. Will be about an hour or so if previous play is anything to go by

[MargotRosa]

Flare Fluff

- I agree with Black that 480 looks sus as hell. When I read Black's 478 I immediately read it as you not thinking the two Hydras were scum. Flare's reply absolutely looks like reflexively jumping to an interpretation of 478 as you not thinking that Flare was Town, and that kind of jumpiness is scum indicative I think.
- As has also been pointed out, the reasons for their reads were very inconsistent.

- I also think we're potentially reading too much into the emotion of their posts, and less about the general character. I've admittedly not played with many hydras, but it makes sense to me anyway that there would be a bit of inconsistency there, and I liked the break from the argument at hand with 514, which indicates that their mind is not necessarily just on what won't get them eliminated.

HPE:
- I haven't really changed my mind on this slot. Jumping to policy lim FF in a game this small is not necessarily scum aligned, but combined with everything else it is pinging me anyway.

The questioning of FF by Black and Ausuka looks Town aligned to me. It's methodical, but also not over hasty and willing to pull back a little when they feel their reasoning is shoddy, or their current line of interrogation is running in circles. I feel like Scum would be more insistent.

I got to the top of page 24 and now I'm exhausted lol. Still a bit ill. Everyone else can be null for the moment, as I didn't really see anything that swayed me one way or the other (above were the majority of posts except Koba, who I can't read properly D1 anyway, and so I personally just always leave null until D2). If day is still going, or if I live for day 2, I'll continue when I have more energy

[MargotRosa]

I still think Ausuka is town. I'd unvote, but that's as good as hammering at this point, so fuck it

VOTE: Rogue[\vote]

[MargotRosa]

Messed up tags, blergh

[MargotRosa]

I'm playing on pure instinct here. It's kinda invigorating, ngl.

[MargotRosa]

Yes. It looked like there were only two viable wagons, and as certain as I felt that Ausuka was town, I am even more certain that I am town, so I brought the votes in line because I didn't want to tantrum throw

[MargotRosa]

On the admittedly not unlikely given my recent play chance that I am wrong

[MargotRosa]

margot still lean town but she will show it d2 if anything. so just askin not to be instant biased against everything she says and let her cook

<3

[MargotRosa]

Will say, if I manage to accidentally flip a scum slot by virtue of my one absolutely solid read this game being that a different player is Town, I am going to lose it.

[MargotRosa]

Like there are times you gotta know when to fold 'em even as town. Self-preservation at all costs is stupid.

It's really not. The only thing you know going in with 100% certainty is your own alignment.

[MargotRosa]

As I said in the post in question, I was incredibly ill, didn't have the energy at the time to do very much of anything, emotions were high, and given that I was ill and felt even less sure in my capacity to read than usual, I acted based on the one thing that I knew for certain.

[MargotRosa]

@margot, can you choose a player to visit with your ability, for the purpose of tracker/watcher? preferably someone you scumread/arent townread. perhaps giving 2 different names might be good.

Sure. I'll visit Koba and Black

[MargotRosa]

@margot, can you choose a player to visit with your ability, for the purpose of tracker/watcher? preferably someone you scumread/arent townread. perhaps giving 2 different names might be good.

Sure. I'll visit Koba and Black

i meant like who you might visit if its scum/town LOL

but why us 2
the point is to *potentially* be able to verify you visited an alive player to confirm you not doing the kill ig

Riiiight, I see. I misunderstood completely.

If it's town I'll visit Ausuka. If scum, Black.

[MargotRosa]

@margot, can you choose a player to visit with your ability, for the purpose of tracker/watcher? preferably someone you scumread/arent townread. perhaps giving 2 different names might be good.

Sure. I'll visit Koba and Black

Since when do you scumread me?

I don't lol

[MargotRosa]

Wait, hang on. You want me to visit scum either way?

[MargotRosa]

All I got was that Tris was not a detector lol. I am now a Tornado, in that I can swap people's roles randomly at night

[MargotRosa]

Also my Ausuka read was entirely because I thought she was mason, so I'm even worse at this game than I thought haha

[MargotRosa]

Also bc of townie play, but that was the impression I got

[MargotRosa]

Town Mod Lie Detector

At night, you may target a player. Assuming success, you will determine if the moderator lied to that player in their role PM.

this is my original role

Right, so, wait, isn't this useless lol?

[MargotRosa]

I was kind of hoping that there was a town and a scum detector detector, so I had a useful investigative role. Alas, looks like the roles are all memes

[MargotRosa]

Because others were casting shade, and I figured that if I was right about the detector detector role, it would be a potential clear

[MargotRosa]

Sorry, let me get caught back up.

[MargotRosa]

I thought she was probably mason with Tris, from a few things, but particularly what I saw increasingly as the day went on as Tris confirming my theory; see the following posts (all by Tris):

90, 426, 612, 614, 624, 627, 628.

It felt less important to protect Tris than Ausuka, as the later was getting pushed hard.

The reason I stopped posting immediately was because I found HPE's progression to today a little strange, but conceded to myself that I may be overreacting to a more subtle change than I had assumed, so I was giving things time to gestate.

Fwiw, last time I post that I am getting caught up after getting a prod before having actually getting caught up, christ that was fast lol

[MargotRosa]

Also FWIW, I still think it might be HPE and Shadow's play today seems off. I still have no clue what to make of Koba, but I'm getting a clearer picture in my mind of how to read the slot

[MargotRosa]

As for why I'm more confident in this game than my last couple, I don't know what to tell you, other than that my play since coming back has been completely all over the place, and also universally bad, so I have been trying to change things up a lot game to game and see what actually works. Also, again FWIW, I don't actually feel like I've been more confident. I still feel very lost lol. I also recollect in that game mentioned being pretty certain about who was mafia day 1 and being correct

[MargotRosa]

Because I had just been proved wrong about my tris and ausuka being masons together theory with the card flip?

[MargotRosa]

I mean that I figured it would be another way to prove in my head whether or not I was correct about everything. Because I figured there could be a use for my given role, and someone on the scum team was also a detector, if the card flipped (or not) to show Tris was not a detector, I would likely know for certain whether or not they were also a mason

[MargotRosa]

Like, if I could say, d2, definitively who was or was not, I would know that I could safely put myself on chopping block in place of either of them if it got to another dual wagon situation

[MargotRosa]

Given that my decision to save myself d1 was put under such scrutiny, I'd happily save the game the trouble on the following day if I knew who was actually worth dying for

[MargotRosa]

I was wrong on multiple counts, so it was clearly bad play, but that's why I did it

[MargotRosa]

I didn't think we were even calling mason a card? I thought the cards were the weird useless roles we've all been given, and the roles are different things altogether?

[MargotRosa]

Even if I was scum, that would make no sense, because I wouldn't have seen the card flip yet?

[MargotRosa]

Also, actually, why would I have spent the entirety of day 1 trying to save the person I thought was mason, putting myself on people's radars, and then immediately kill, that night, the one person with any reason to feel any kind of good will for me in this game?

[MargotRosa]

Like, I don't see how any of my play makes any kind of sense if I was scum

[MargotRosa]

I'm saying my whole strategy has been proven moot now, because the card flip wouldn't have shown me anything. In a different world, in which my role was actually useful, it would have cleared the other person I thought could be mason for everyone else, which was why I came out as soon as I could to clear Tris today, but I have been proven wrong. I'm very sleep deprived at the moment, so I'm sorry if my words are bad.

Also, actually, why would I have spent the entirety of day 1 trying to save the person I thought was mason, putting myself on people's radars, and then immediately kill, that night, the one person with any reason to feel any kind of good will for me in this game?

If you are scum then the optimal play is to kill the Masons. They are the only roles that can clear themselves by claiming
[/quote]

Optimal play would have been to put as much pressure on everyone else to kill the person I thought was mason when they were e-1, instead of waiting for the other slot with heat, who in this scenario would be my scum partner, to be voted out instead?

[MargotRosa]

Tags are completely messed up there, apologies

[MargotRosa]

Thoughts up to page 5:
Koba is probably town
vibes wise I don't like HPE
Ausuka - Idk her posting is giving me slightly weird vibes but I don't think this means she has to be scum. I also haven't ever been in a game with Ausuka so I am not rly sure how to read her (oh wait nvm I just realized I HAD been in a game with Ausuka but I was scum). Uhhhhh actually I guess she has different vibes to that game so that could mean she's scum? Dunno
tris - literally 0 clue how to read
everyone else hasn't even made an impression on me.

Roden is conveniently absent from this list

As are you lol

[MargotRosa]

I'm going to do some craft with my partner. Will have another look in a couple hours if there are more questions.

I still think it's likely the solve is HPE, so I'll sit my vote there for the moment, but have a small handful of slots I'm thinking about

VOTE: HPE

[MargotRosa]

This game is so weird. I kinda get what HPE was getting at now. I feel like I have lost all grasp of reality and what I should even be looking for when playing mafia, and in theory Town should have the game in the bag.

Do you have a good example of a Town game that played out like this for you Black, because I have raised eyebrows at your d2 progression a couple times

[MargotRosa]

Are the rest of us waiting for the rest to get back slash get replaced, or do you want to talk it out?