The Brave and the Beautiful 2: Fairy Tales ÔÇô Game Over


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Post Post #763 (ISO) » Thu Jul 07, 2011 1:52 pm

Post by Kast »

Amrun wrote:Likelihood of two town redirectors? Low. I believe Kast over Fate.
Some thoughts on this:
-Fate has to be pretty ballsy to false counter-claim.
Fate tends to be pretty ballsy

-Fate claimed 1-Shot for both actions.
Two 1-Shot redirections reads more like a scum-role than a town one; it also makes the role less of a counter-claim

-I am surprised that Fate pretty much assumed I must be town after my claim; seems more likely to be a scum reaction than a town one.
I'm a bit torn but leaning scum (mostly keep second guessing myself).
Spoiler: Response for Ooba
ooba wrote:So claimed I could keep both kdub and LLD alive.
Dislike that you false claimed, but the reasoning is plausible.

Ooba wrote:1) We are dealing with two anti-town factions here
- Scum teams of two (one day killing and one night killing) - one a witch scum team comprised of Ursula (Sea witch) and TWWOTW, another scum team composed of the Red queen and the queen from snow witch. So ya - Queens vs Witches.
- Or a scum team of three plus SK. So it's the Snow white Queen SK (who wants to be the most powerful of them all) vs Witches scum team comprising of Ursula, TWWOTW & Maleficent.
Reasoning:
Far too many roles to deal with protection\kill blockage
This speculation seems...kinda extreme for what it's based on.
In terms of mechanics balance, with what's been claimed, I doubt town has to deal with 2 scum teams. No vig claims and so much blocking/redirection and speculated commuting?
I do think the Queens vs Witches sounds like a cool game setup.


Ooba wrote:Could be a tinkerbell claim which he avoided due to this.
This would require Iec is lying OR Iec was redirected to ABR and ABR is a GF (investigates as Tinkerbell). Did you miss Iec's claim?

With Ooba AND Fitz both claiming a mass roleblock (jailkeep), strongly agree that one of the two is probably lying. Gut and gameplay says it's Fitz, though to be fair he did claim the mass JK first. I'm also a bit weirded out by Ooba's BP claim and multiscum speculation; those both kinda scream SK. Also, I'm not dismissing the possibility of a Fitz/Ooba scum team with a gambit to sacrifice-bus one to "confirm" the other.
@ABR-
Demonstrating your public ability is better for proving it to everyone. If you can demonstrate both, that's fine too.

@Ooba-
My Beloved Princess ability is just called that.
My Bus-Driving ability is
Delivery
.

Spoiler: Claimed:
Amrun/Goldilocks - 2-Shot Thief, 2-Shot Neighborizer -
N1
Stole
Roleblock
from
Robo
,
Roleblocked
ABR
N2
Stole
??Nothing??
from
Fate

Fitz/Giselle - Jailkeeper, 1-Shot Mass Jailkeep -
N1
Jailed
Fate
N2
Jailed
ALL

Sathoris/Jasmine - 1-Shot Bulletproof
Iecrint/Alice - Investigate -
N1
Investigated
Fitz
N2
Investigated
Fate

Fate/Little Miss Muffet - 1-Shot Busdriver, 1-Shot Redirector -
N1
Bussed
Kast
and
Ooba
N2
Redirected
Amrun
to
Sathoris

ABR/Witch of the West - 3-Shot Anonymous Messages
Kdub/Belle - Enhancer -
N1
Enhanced
LLD
N2
Enhanced
Iecrint

Kast/Red Riding Hood - Beloved Princess, Odd-Night Busdriver -
N1
Bussed
Kdub
and
Kast

Ooba/Cinderella - BP, Mass Role-Block -
N1
-
N2
Roleblocked
ALL
Spoiler: Dead:
Spyrex/Wendy Darling - ???
Kunk/Aurora - ???
Robo/Dorothy - Roleblocker, ???
LLD/Ariel - 2-Shot Tracker, 2-Shot Watcher
Spoiler: Active Claimed Powers and some thoughts
Given the claims, tonight town potentially has:
-Neighborizer ~ demonstrable
-Jailkeeper ~ semi-demonstrable
-Cop+ ~ semi-demonstrable
-Annonymous Message ~ demonstrable
-Enhancer ~ semi-demonstrable
-Busdriver ~ semi-demonstrable
There's at least one and possibly more night kills with unknown scum abilities.
-Tonight I'm going to bus-drive myself with an target I'm not going to pre-announce.

This has interesting repercussions with the claimed town abilities (provided I don't get blocked somehow)Amrun
-If Amrun targets me or my target, it should confirm me.
Fitz
-Dunno whether his jailkeep would have priority over busdriving (if it does, then not bad)
Iec
-If Iec targets me, he should get someone else's claim.
--If my bus target is scum, I can reveal the scum first thing tomorrow
--If my bus target is town, Iec can confirm both Kast AND my bus target
-If Iec targets someone else and gets my role, Iec can confirm me
ABR's ability doesn't do much
Kdub
-Dunno whether his doubling has priority over busdriving. If it doesn't, then it becomes potentially demonstrable.

Spoiler: Thoughts on Specific Player Claims
-I believe Iec's claim. He has too much info for N1 and it fits well with RC's style.
-I'm also inclined to believe Kdub's and Amrun's claims, and based on game play, I'm inclined to think they're both town.
Out of:
ABR, Fate, Fitz, Ooba, Sathoris
-ABR's claim sounds like scum, but I don't see why he would claim scum openly (except if Fate is correct that he's trying to keep an UBER-POWERFUL scumbuddy alive)
-Fate I've highlighted my thoughts on Fate. I don't think her interaction with ABR is fake; I doubt they're on the same team.
-Fitz/Ooba as I've posted earlier I think at least one is scum. Just from gut and game play, I'd say Ooba has been more town-like. From the actual claims, I'd have to go against my gut with Fitz's claim more plausible-town. I'd rather leave them for tomorrow and a potential investigation/more information. There's also the chance that they're both scum (on the same team or even one mafia one SK).
-If Ooba is SK, then Sathoris is probable town. Otherwise he is PoE scum.
I think an ABR or Fate lynch would probably be best for today. I prefer Fate, since she has the most ties and since her claim most directly conflicts with what I know.
Spoiler: The following ordered lists shows my lynch preference.
Preferred Lynch:

Fate
Acceptable Lynch:

ABR
Fitz
Ooba
Sathoris
Beats No Lynch:

Amrun
Kdub
Iec
Loses to No Lynch:

Kast
VOTE: Fate
Show
T: 9/6.5/0
M: 8/2/1
O: 0/3.5/0

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Post Post #764 (ISO) » Thu Jul 07, 2011 2:08 pm

Post by Kdub »

ooba wrote:
Kdub wrote:ooba, when did you submit your action during N2?

My ability is just called "Enhance".

Within 1.5 hours of the D2 flip ..

In that case, you submitted before me, and it is plausible that your action resolved before mine did and prevented it from occurring.
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Post Post #765 (ISO) » Thu Jul 07, 2011 2:35 pm

Post by ReaperCharlie »

The Brave and Beautiful Vote Count
3.4



Fate [3] – Albert B. Rampage, Amrun, Kast


Not Voting
– Fate, havingfitz, Iecerint, Kdub, ooba, Sathoris



With 9 players alive, it is 5 votes to lynch.
Deadline is July 21 at 2pm PST (5pm EST).
Show
"Take me to Pleasure Town!" "Look, the most Glorious Rainbow Ever!" "Do me on it!" -

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Post Post #766 (ISO) » Thu Jul 07, 2011 3:21 pm

Post by Iecerint »

1.
ooba, way back on D1, wrote:Commuter is the exact fakeclaim I had for one for the three scum according to what I thought the setup was! (I had it as Tinkerbell but w/e)

Ooba, I've been wondering in the back of my head since N1 whether you were Tinkerbell because of this. I thought it was a crumb.

Where did this come from?

Also, if you'd decided that scum would have an investigative fakeclaim this game, why don't you think I am scum, especially with no Tinkerbell claim *AND* my ability implies she exists and is town *AND* (requires either the 10% failure on fitz OR unclaimed scum target-switcher).

I mean I know I'm town, but I'm surprised no one's pushing for my lynch tbh... :?

2. I think RC has deliberately messed with the ability names a little. For example, my ability has a mundane name, and Kast's rolename is mundane.

3. @ whoever spec'd at my N2 flavor, I can confirm that there's no nature-y flavor associated with it. One additional detail that didn't make it into the flavor is that I do *attempt* to go, but I stay in bed instead. But that's all. I probably got an indication-at-all because I always get flavor, so I'd whine at RC if I didn't get something.
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Post Post #767 (ISO) » Thu Jul 07, 2011 3:23 pm

Post by Iecerint »

Ooba, why did you want to claim last? Just your roleblock, or...?
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Post Post #768 (ISO) » Thu Jul 07, 2011 3:35 pm

Post by Albert B. Rampage »

oobs and kast opportunistic scum?

unvote, vote Kast
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Post Post #769 (ISO) » Thu Jul 07, 2011 5:11 pm

Post by ooba »

@Kast
"In terms of mechanics balance,
with what's been claimed
, I doubt town has to deal with 2 scum teams."
Here's what your claim list misses out on
- Kunk claimed 2 shot Hider+Commuter
- SpyreX is a protective role from flavor
Also, if I was a SK in this game, would have just kept quiet about my BP, given the meta on BP claims equaling SK automatically.


@Iece
- Regarding tinkerbell, at the start of the game I made a list of all possible roles in the game depending on whether the fairy tale character was sexy enough or not (Pics and stuff). After reading the first game, I tried reasoning what powers RC would give to scum and the corresponding fakeclaims. This was what I thought the fakeclaims were at that time:
Little red riding hood - Cop
Rapunzel - JK
Tinker Bell - Commuter
- Reason I'm not pushing your lynch now is that if you're scum
a) You're lying about your ability. In which case, you would have made up for result for today and got caught.
b) If you're an actual rolecop kinda of scum role - you would have welcome the chance to semi-confirm yourself with N1 results. At worst, you could have made up flavor on N1 about people who had claimed before you instead of going "tinkerbell" which if you're scum - you know will put the spotlight on you.
The 10% also ties in with your ability not working properly on one GF scum. (So one false positive amongst 12 targets = wrong 8.3% of the time = Right 91.66% of the time). So yeah, much better choices for the lynch today.
- Yes, I wanted to claim last because of my mass roleblock.


More thoughts on why ABR claimed scum in thread
a) Because of me
- Clearly tinkerbell is not there in the setup since no pro-town player has claimed the role
- Also Snow white not being there is also weird. Given that
-- I said "I expected tinkerbell to the commuter fakeclaim"
-- I was pushing for a massclaim
Scum thought I was a role who had inside info on their fakeclaims. So decided to hedge bets; One person claims the best fakeclaim given to them, ABR takes a risk with claiming actual villain name cause of "Why would scum do that" WIFOM and make up another name. (Giselle is the claim which sounds out there).
b) Because by claiming scum in thread and getting lynched - give the impression that scum don't have fakeclaims - because one of their partners has a kickass fakeclaim.
c) He's a role like Bomb - so should probably have second most scummiest candidate hammer him just in case.
d) One of the scum have a governor ability - seems broken in a mini but you never know.


768 is an opportunistic scum attempt to get BP lynched or yet another attempt to get himself lynched. I am definitely voting ABR today ..
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Post Post #770 (ISO) » Thu Jul 07, 2011 5:22 pm

Post by Iecerint »

ABR, is your character sexed up in your image?
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Post Post #771 (ISO) » Thu Jul 07, 2011 5:26 pm

Post by ooba »

Something I noticed on ability names - hence the question to everyone on that. Also should note that people who claimed later could have noticed that ability names - lack flavor ..

Green Zone

My abilities names are what I claimed in thread - Mass roleblock and Bulletproof.

Iece wrote:My ability is called
Investigate.


Fate wrote:My abilities names are Switch for the busdrive, and Redirect


Sathoris wrote:Simply: One-Shot Bulletproof.


Kdub wrote:My ability is just called "Enhance".


Neutral Zone

Amrun wrote:"Steal from" is pretty self-explanatory, but okay. Steal from and Befriend.


Kast wrote:My Beloved Princess ability is just called that.
My Bus-Driving ability is Delivery.


Red Zone

ABR wrote:Wicked Witch of the West
Abilities: Crystal Ball, Clear as Glass


Fitz wrote:My ability names are -
Focused friends
which is applied with
Shield: player
and
Oh no they don't!
which is applied with
Let's play nice.
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Post Post #772 (ISO) » Thu Jul 07, 2011 5:27 pm

Post by ooba »

Iecerint wrote:ABR, is your character sexed up in your image?

RC has threatened a modkill on picture discussions to me in PM when I checked with him.


I've found out ABR's pic but we should stay off this topic.
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Post Post #773 (ISO) » Thu Jul 07, 2011 5:29 pm

Post by Iecerint »

I notice that this game has between 1-3 instances of characters from the same universe being included (bold are confirmed, parenthetical is implied by flavor, remaining is claimed):

Wendy
-- (Tinkerbell) (I think Tinkerbell is probably intended to be the fake half of the hypothetical GF role, since she can't be a town role since she wasn't claimed, unless my 10% is literally a random occurrence BUT my ability implies that it is wrong because people lie, which leads toward GF-world)

Dorothy
-- Wicked Witch

Ariel
-- (Ursula) (based only on flavor)

P-edit: Worth noting that Kast also stands out on those grounds, since he's a
Beloved Princess
rather than something fancy.

P-edit x2: Oh :(

My thought was that ABR's role is more plausible if RC was inspired by the Wicked musical, in which case he would claim a sexed-up picture. If he claimed one that isn't sexed-up, that would lean scum.
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Post Post #774 (ISO) » Thu Jul 07, 2011 5:30 pm

Post by Iecerint »

Oh wait wait.

Kast, is Beloved Princess your ABILITY or your ROLENAME or BOTH?
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Post Post #775 (ISO) » Thu Jul 07, 2011 5:39 pm

Post by Iecerint »

Also, no one claimed the SpyreX kill...so there's that...
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Post Post #776 (ISO) » Thu Jul 07, 2011 5:42 pm

Post by Iecerint »

So either:

1. The town daykiller just doesn't want to claim it. (Low probability)
2. The SK decided to claim something else AND is pretending to be one-shot (Low probability, since no reason to pretend to be one-shot if you're not even going to claim it)
3. The scumteam had a one-shot daykill (I guess this is what happened? Analogous to their free lynch ability in B&B1)

But I don't remember people trying to vilify me particularly after the SX kill...so I don't know why they'd shoot SX, particularly...
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Post Post #777 (ISO) » Thu Jul 07, 2011 6:02 pm

Post by ooba »

- Listed Kast there because of "Delivery" which has a flavor element to it

- How is sexed-up an indication as to whether he's leaning scum or town? I expect all villains to be sexed up too (going by the previous game) .. Read the part about the musical - could have bought it if ABR was a miller .. Plus he didn't add a LOLwifom role last game so I wonder why RC mod would start now. Plus it's not like we've run out of sexy fairy tales for him to use a villain.

- The daykill was why I theorized that there might be two scum teams with one day killing and one night killing (or) SK + scum team. Point 2 could be explained by the daykill hitting one of the BPs. Wasting a lone one-shot before any claims seems like a sub-optimal choice. For example - killing LLD who claimed watcher later in the day would have been a much better choice.
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Post Post #778 (ISO) » Thu Jul 07, 2011 6:07 pm

Post by Iecerint »

If he is fakeclaiming 100% and going for the "scum wouldn't do that" angle, he might have claimed not-sexed-up. I agree that this would be an indication that he was fakeclaiming.

Hitting the bulletproofs is possible, I guess. I would have expected that RC would take the opportunity to include some flavor, though. That would mean either you or Sath, right? I think the scum daykill might be parsimonious, though.
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Post Post #779 (ISO) » Thu Jul 07, 2011 6:08 pm

Post by Iecerint »

If the scum have a daykill and it isn't factional, I might expect 1 scum not to have a confirmable ability...
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Post Post #780 (ISO) » Thu Jul 07, 2011 6:54 pm

Post by Kdub »

Fate: Does your ability allow you to bus drive yourself? I should have thought to ask that sooner.
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Post Post #781 (ISO) » Thu Jul 07, 2011 7:10 pm

Post by Fate »

Im drunk and i just rodwe home on a motorcycel aned i shoudl nbe daed


who has anyone quetrsions about how town as fuck am I?
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Post Post #782 (ISO) » Thu Jul 07, 2011 7:11 pm

Post by Fate »

i cant drive mslf i asked that pregame

spyrex killler is scumbag sk lol


probably sathoris

i can see bv daykillin spyrex then flaking like a fuc,
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Post Post #783 (ISO) » Thu Jul 07, 2011 7:12 pm

Post by Fate »

this is why ui duisklike games liek this

its all setup speculation abd bullshit

i dont give a fuck how uch ower you thinbk town has or how there cant be two town redirects or whatevr the fuck

amrun is scum and scumis amrun and abr and scum by day play

so fuick your setup
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Post Post #784 (ISO) » Thu Jul 07, 2011 7:46 pm

Post by Iecerint »

Well, it's also how well scum can figure out the set-up and nullify it as a strategy, or introduce relations between roles that change how the game is perceived, etc. It just adds another layer to the game.

Your perceived tell on Amrun is almost certainly null unless you think both Ooba and Fitz are scum AND a secret scum blocked me. No kill N2 was overdetermined.

I am also skeptical of ABR's play. It's been pretty minimalistic until today, and today has focused on jumping on set-up details without balancing specific propositions against other possibilities, etc. It's a way of playing that allows scum to potentially take over the set-up speculation without much forethought.
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Post Post #785 (ISO) » Thu Jul 07, 2011 7:58 pm

Post by Kdub »

Fate wrote:i cant drive mslf i asked that pregame

Didn't you find it strange then that Kast claimed to have busdrove himself on N1? Why would two busdrive abilities work differently?
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Post Post #786 (ISO) » Thu Jul 07, 2011 8:01 pm

Post by Fate »

...a?

lol you got a point i didnt even notice that

uinvpote:
vote: kast
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Post Post #787 (ISO) » Thu Jul 07, 2011 8:03 pm

Post by Kdub »

Why didn't you say something about it when he first claimed it?
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