Mini 1801 - Undertale: Kill or Be Killed Mafia [Game Over!]


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Post Post #2675 (ISO) » Tue Aug 16, 2016 7:36 pm

Post by BTD6_maker »

This game looked very unbalanced with the Dunnstral win. If he had been a third party or something similar it would be much more balanced. Guilty and Dunnstral being alive pretty much guaranteed the win.
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Post Post #2676 (ISO) » Tue Aug 16, 2016 9:25 pm

Post by KittenLicks »

In post 2672, Parama wrote:i also feel really bad for grapes since they got totally screwed over by the setup, even though we should've lynched them d2 anyways so w/e

i was too paranoid to do anything right all game
Seconding the sympathy for grapes, and the maf team in general. The setup really went against them, between the human scout and the Dunnstral thing.

Waaay too much stuff was either hidden or an outright lie for my taste. I also now understand why Snarky told me that I didn't buy tem flakes when I asked, seeing as apparently I didn't buy ANYTHING. :P I was wondering why that item specifically could not be bought, seemed kind of arbitrary.

That could definitely have got me lynched for lying if someone had visited me the night before. Looking at the complete role, it really felt like optimal play would have been to quiz the mod on what I could and could not do as soon as I got it. "Do I buy tem flakes? Do I buy other items? Can I double target? Can I self target?" until i lucked onto the self target one by chance and confirmed myself. :P
GuiltyLion wrote:yeah grapes and frog I think you guys both played well and didn't deserve to lose, like you both were in that perfect spot of dodging lynches and being sort of considered scummy but not scummy enough to lynch the whole game until mechanics basically caught both of you. If I didn't have a BG ability then I think this would have been scum win for sure.

Clumsy/Shaz I'm sorry for strongarming a lynch on you guys D1, that misread is entirely on me

Creature congrats on the win as well :]

thanks for modding SnarkySnowman! The flavor was really fun and I like it even more seeing the roles/things that could have happened
Don't forget Flowey's SUDDEN DEATH thing. If you'd saved Dunnstral and died, it would only be Flowey, Frisk and Tsunderplane, who was not a key character.
Hidden Ability: If you are still alive, Chara is not alive, and Frisk is the only key player still alive, you become Photoshop Flowey, and game will turn to SUDDEN DEATH. In this mode, the win is determined by a vote, taken of players once they die. To win, you need a simple majority, minus 2.5. Scum get a hint that the question upon death is relevant.
Seconding that frog and grapes played well. I feel they probably would have won, particularly without the human-scout and autowinning thing. Well played, guys. :)

@frog
I mentioned this in the dead thread too, but I find it kind of weird that 2-3 players were voting you with reasoning along the lines of "something feels off/wrong". Do you think there's something about your scum game people are picking up on, or were people just being paranoid and getting lucky with their paranoia?
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Post Post #2677 (ISO) » Tue Aug 16, 2016 9:59 pm

Post by frog »

In post 2664, grapes wrote:gg well played

i can now tell my grandkids that i was confirmed scum and didn't get lynched
I can now tell my grandkids that I stalled out an entire day by getting town to rethink after I was basically outed scum against two claimed lovers. GreyICE might have something to say about this...

Thanks for being my scumbuddy, grapes! You saved an otherwise dead slot Day 2 and gave it a good go on Days 4 and 5, which was all that could be asked given that the setup swung against us. Once the mafia thread is made public you will see my reaction to what happened Night 2, but now that I have cleared my head I think that there are several ways the setup could lead to a scum advantage. Had we killed the lovers Night 2, it would have been an entirely different game. With a little tweaking I think this setup could be close to balanced, and I concur that sometimes better information could have helped.
In post 2676, KittenLicks wrote:@frog I mentioned this in the dead thread too, but I find it kind of weird that 2-3 players were voting you with reasoning along the lines of "something feels off/wrong". Do you think there's something about your scum game people are picking up on, or were people just being paranoid and getting lucky with their paranoia?
Yes, I would like to know the answer to this too. It was you, GreyICE, and Creature who expressed this, correct? Would love to know what was going on in your heads. My own theory is that it could have come from my implicit defence of Rory/grapes. Rory did not send in an action Night 1 and his role was very powerful, so I wanted it around for subsequent days. I had a way to explain playing weirdly, which was that, as Mettaton with a latent ability, I wanted to live until Day 3, but I couldn't pull that off after Night 2.

By the way, I stand by my early read of you, I think you were one of the townier players. Being close to deadline and some concerted effort was the thing that got you lynched Day 2 in my opinion.
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Post Post #2678 (ISO) » Wed Aug 17, 2016 7:17 am

Post by KittenLicks »

Well, my original read on you was that you were super towny, and that made me paranoid that you were intentionally trying your hardest to seem townie, but I mostly brushed it off. I'd say that was very much lucky paranoia.

For the first day and a half or so, I was working on a pretty newbie idea of what a scum mindset must look like: worried about being caught, trying to sheep and buddy townies, etc. Evaluating people with that mindset led to basically everyone being a townread, because people just didn't act like that. That caused me to re-evaluate my idea of a scum mindset midgame, and lead me to imagine a player that was confident that they could project town rolling scum. My mental image of that was someone that was acting very confident and sure of their reads as well as very much fitting the stereotypical definition of 'town' (highish activity, long posts, lots of analysis etc.) which was basically you in a nutshell, from my perspective, which was what changed my read on you from "top town" to "top scum".

Depending on how accurate that portrayal of scum is, that could basically have been a lucky read too, I can definitely imagine mislynching a townie in the future that just happens to be confident in their reads and has high activity and long posts. :p But yeah, that was the point where I had a serious scumread on you.

This is probably something I should have said while playing, but it always feels kind of awkward discussing 'how to find scum' in an actual game. XD

So yeah, not sure about the others, but that was the logic behind my mostly-gut read of you.
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Post Post #2679 (ISO) » Thu Aug 18, 2016 4:35 am

Post by KittenLicks »

In post 2663, SnarkySnowman wrote:
The Mod Thread is here:


http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 9#p8001559

In it are the role PMs, actions, and links to the Dead Thread and Mafia Thread. Mafia thread will be made public after 24 hours.
Waiting in anticipation for that mafia thread unlock. :P
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Post Post #2680 (ISO) » Thu Aug 18, 2016 5:45 am

Post by SnarkySnowman »

Unlocked now.
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Post Post #2681 (ISO) » Thu Aug 18, 2016 12:42 pm

Post by Dunnstral »

What would the role name for fritz have been if I died?
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Post Post #2682 (ISO) » Thu Aug 18, 2016 1:53 pm

Post by SnarkySnowman »

Underground aligned human
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Post Post #2683 (ISO) » Tue Aug 30, 2016 6:59 am

Post by GreyICE »

Well this does explain why my scum reads were so soft all game, there were only two scum.

Regardless, I think I played it out well. I think the town was right to play the guilty day the way they did (even if it was frustrating given my dead-thread knowledge), to the town it was LyLo and you have to question things like "are the still-living lovers town" in LyLo. You can't just rush and hammer the "obvious guilty" and that was well done.

I'm a little more annoyed that the watcher claim lived given the fact it was a confirmed 2-person scumteam. The reason I posted what I did was exactly because I was starting to suspect the 2-scum theory, and that made my role absolutely incompatible with Grapes.

Game was definitely bastard, but not super unfair. There were three roles that caused an "extra death", mine, the lovers, and our third party. That meant that if even one went off then the game would be only 5 days, and the lovers basically couldn't NOT go off. So Dunn had to live to day 6, and there had to actually be a day 6, which required a no-lynch and then Dunn to live through the night. So that happened, but it wasn't obvious it was going to happen.
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Post Post #2684 (ISO) » Tue Aug 30, 2016 7:03 am

Post by GreyICE »

As for what was off about Frog's posts, it's hard to put a finger on it. You were just... hmmm... off. I dunno. It's this weird nagging in the back of your head that says "other people are being more scummy, but this guy is just a tad too on the nose." I don't know how else to describe it. It's just too town without being passionate, too obviously good posting without being engaging.
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Post Post #2685 (ISO) » Tue Aug 30, 2016 11:09 am

Post by JaeReed »

In post 2683, GreyICE wrote: Game was definitely bastard, but not super unfair. There were three roles that caused an "extra death", mine, the lovers, and our third party. That meant that if even one went off then the game would be only 5 days, and the lovers basically couldn't NOT go off. So Dunn had to live to day 6, and there had to actually be a day 6, which required a no-lynch and then Dunn to live through the night. So that happened, but it wasn't obvious it was going to happen.
My role too. I died D1 if a key character died D1. Also after D2 I became a bodyguard and would die instead of a group of 3 that I targeted.
"Jae defends his townreads like a fanatic" - Charloux
"On the issue of myself they go back and forth between overpowering paranoia and absolute certainty I'm town... it's kind of exhausting." - Nahdia
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