Mini 1821 Badass Women U-Pick Mafia - game over

[GuyInFreezer]

No regret hammering Yume though.
Absolutely no regret.

[GuyInFreezer]

But yeah I really hope the setup was 10:2:1 because 19:3:1 gives like one mistake for a mislynch lol

(And we blew that on a policy lynch. But as i said above, no regret)

[Yume]

Imo, if a neighborizer is bad, they still shouldn't be lynched. Instead, they should be allowed to recruit players who can give them advice.....

[Firebringer]

You guys should have let Yume be, they were going to get replaced eventually.

[pieguyn]

gg. this game stressed me the fuck out, and I put a lot into it, but if I'm being perfectly honest with my thoughts on the game, I still don't even really feel like I accomplished anything because when D3 came around I felt like town more or less just got way too screwed over by the setup. 9-3-1 is really horrible for town since Luna D1 was a necessary lynch for them and having a SK running around could have easily suffocated them and fucked them over, yet it also functioned like a mislynch from a numbers POV. then mollie happened (in part because I mindgamed Aris really hard so I knew he'd shoot her, but disregarding that), and that took away another one of town's mislynches for a total of only two mislynches allowed.

I hate being scum. q.q

[pieguyn]

we had a JK, which we essentially used as an RB, and a motivator which after I saw people in this game stupidly assuming beegirl-town for her role I got everyone to pretty much universally town read, and then me.

town had what amounted to UTL getting one clear on someone, and LLD who could have saved it N3 only to get roleblocked.

had the game continued somehow, and I won the 1v1 with LLD the next day, I'd feel a lot more satisfied with this game.

[pieguyn]

I'm not really sure how to assess the setup because in a scenario where I don't lynch Luna D1, she shoots me overnight 95% of the time and then it's a much different game.

it's, at the very least, really really swingy, and it swung all the way in favor of scum here.

[pieguyn]

I think pie and foxbird were the objectively scummiest players in the game but when you have town lying for god knows whatever reason and apathetic town who don't give a shit they had plenty of room to hide.

I think this probably happened because I went full aggro-mode this game trying to mislynch a bunch of people who in a normal universe I'd never try to mislynch, in order to create as much room as possible at the end.

you and Luna aren't exactly people who are usually considered lynchable, but then Luna acted really off (and was technically scum... see the other post about town being somewhat fucked by the setup) and there was a lot of pressure on you.

[Aristophanes]

I ended up aiming at Pie and LLD last night btw. I came around on PieScum too late

i am glad I lost a game in mylo with you and ari <3.

<3
Sorry I never came back and figured stuff out with you Mollie! And sorry again that I shot you

@UTL @Ari Consider yourselves blacklisted.

I got blacklisted? That's a first.
Sorry if I made the game unbearable for you :S
I would defend against this, but I'm sure it's too late and I don't want to bug you any further. So, yeah. Sorry.

[Aristophanes]

I mindgamed Aris really hard

Yeah, well done on that Pie!

[Yume]

I ended up aiming at Pie and LLD last night btw. I came around on PieScum too late

i am glad I lost a game in mylo with you and ari <3.

<3
Sorry I never came back and figured stuff out with you Mollie! And sorry again that I shot you

@UTL @Ari Consider yourselves blacklisted.

I got blacklisted? That's a first.
Sorry if I made the game unbearable for you :S
I would defend against this, but I'm sure it's too late and I don't want to bug you any further. So, yeah. Sorry.

It's okay anyway. I would only play in Varsoon's games from now on, with the exception of one that isn't his, maybe.

[Antihero]

I'm not really sure how to assess the setup because in a scenario where I don't lynch Luna D1, she shoots me overnight 95% of the time and then it's a much different game.

this is why crosskills make multiball games a NIGHTMARE to balance

regardless, town needed some actual power here

like... tth needed to be a full blown cop. and/or lld needed to have decent powers on the joat. and/or somebody besides lld needed to have kill stopping potential (esp w/ the amount of killing roles here)

gif's role, utl's role, mala's role, beeboy's role were creative and all but they were p much garnish roles. and mollie's and yume's roles were null power.

i kinda like the concept behind ari's role but it's SO heavily gated to where he might as well have been a VT. in order to get a shot off on scum, both ari AND some other town power needed to target the same scum (not gonna happen AND that ties up a townie w/ an action). i could see it working in a game w/ a bunch of weak actions though (visitors, fruit vendors, maybe even a hider if you're sadistic enough)

[farside22]

Scum pt: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=90&t=67748

[Lady Lambdadelta]

This game fucking blew.

Like scum literally didn't ahve to do anything to win it.

[farside22]

I'm not really sure how to assess the setup because in a scenario where I don't lynch Luna D1, she shoots me overnight 95% of the time and then it's a much different game.

this is why crosskills make multiball games a NIGHTMARE to balance

regardless, town needed some actual power here

like... tth needed to be a full blown cop. and/or lld needed to have decent powers on the joat. and/or somebody besides lld needed to have kill stopping potential (esp w/ the amount of killing roles here)

gif's role, utl's role, mala's role, beeboy's role were creative and all but they were p much garnish roles. and mollie's and yume's roles were null power.

i kinda like the concept behind ari's role but it's SO heavily gated to where he might as well have been a VT. in order to get a shot off on scum, both ari AND some other town power needed to target the same scum (not gonna happen AND that ties up a townie w/ an action). i could see it working in a game w/ a bunch of weak actions though (visitors, fruit vendors, maybe even a hider if you're sadistic enough)

One or 2 tweaks and this would be very different.
I've kind of been anti cop lately but I agree with this set up it would help.
Tth did die night 1 regardless.
I had this small town mentality when thinking of roles here.

[farside22]

This game does make me feel the need to mod another mafia dating game show again.
Just one of those games I love writing.

[kraska77]

thx for modding farfar ^_^

[farside22]

Hey thanks for playing!

[Skybird]

Good game everyone. Thanks for modding Farside. I appreciate your efforts.

I hate rolling scum so I'm glad we had Pie on our team. You rock!

I enjoyed being scum with you Foxbird.

[Aristophanes]

I honestly did enjoy this game, Farside! So thanks:)

[RadiantCowbells]

For the record, when I was asked to replace in I read and I was positive Skybird was scum and pretty sure that Pieguyn was scum as well.

*show off*

[pieguyn]

For the record, when I was asked to replace in I read and I was positive Skybird was scum and pretty sure that Pieguyn was scum as well.

*show off*

oh, about this, the me/Skybird interactions are actually something I want to talk about a bit.

Spoiler: my insane, half-lucid rant

a lot of the reason I played this game in the way that I did, especially on D1, was to show off why it's so problematic to define "working with other people" as "comparing our reads and finding reads we agree on without regard to the reasoning behind the read", rather than "comparing the reasoning behind our reads, thinking about it together, and identifying the objectively better argument".

Skybird D1 was derailed because I sat there saying she was town over and over, and no one cared that I didn't really have much of a reason for it.
Foxbird D1 was derailed for much the same reason.
Yume was lynched D2 despite being obviously town, but no one cared that I didn't derail it because they wanted Yume gone and so they saw it as cooperative (dunno if this is the right way to phrase this but that was a 100% intentional choice on my part).
mollie was vig'd N2 because I made Aris feel bad for not following me.

as town I would have been all over people claiming beegirl's role auto-towned her, but people somehow think that it's uncooperative or not town play to consider things like that despite it being objectively true. this enabled the mass Foxbird reads D3.

after that mollie basically forced me into following her, but it didn't matter since her reads were wrong anyway, and she started town reading me (or at least stopped pushing me) because... I'm not even sure why? because me deciding to work with her and not bothering to question her (entirely incorrect) reads after getting her in effect mislynched was such a genuine thing to do?

literally all I did was sit there and hard push ridiculous reads all game and it's honestly stupid that something like that was not only sufficient to carry the entire scum team, regardless of anything (or the lack of anything) they did, but probably could have caused one or two more mislynches if I needed them for whatever reason. even GIF, who is aware that I'm not that awful at the game, didn't realize this is what I was doing until the last day.

TTH said that she didn't really know what she could have done differently to get her Foxbird lynch D1, and it wasn't really her fault, it's the fault of people playing the game like this en masse which enables the loudest people to win most of the arguments without regard to how good their reasoning actually is.

/shrug

[pieguyn]

This game fucking blew.

Like scum literally didn't ahve to do anything to win it.

not everyone gets fucking Spiffeh and GreyICE as their scum partners, you know. <_>

but seriously, I hope the next time we meet we're either both town or I can *actually* get my revenge on you from the last game (since this game... yeah).

[Aristophanes]

For the record, when I was asked to replace in I read and I was positive Skybird was scum and pretty sure that Pieguyn was scum as well.

*show off*

oh, about this, the me/Skybird interactions are actually something I want to talk about a bit.

Spoiler: my insane, half-lucid rant

a lot of the reason I played this game in the way that I did, especially on D1, was to show off why it's so problematic to define "working with other people" as "comparing our reads and finding reads we agree on without regard to the reasoning behind the read", rather than "comparing the reasoning behind our reads, thinking about it together, and identifying the objectively better argument".

Skybird D1 was derailed because I sat there saying she was town over and over, and no one cared that I didn't really have much of a reason for it.
Foxbird D1 was derailed for much the same reason.
Yume was lynched D2 despite being obviously town, but no one cared that I didn't derail it because they wanted Yume gone and so they saw it as cooperative (dunno if this is the right way to phrase this but that was a 100% intentional choice on my part).
mollie was vig'd N2 because I made Aris feel bad for not following me.

as town I would have been all over people claiming beegirl's role auto-towned her, but people somehow think that it's uncooperative or not town play to consider things like that despite it being objectively true. this enabled the mass Foxbird reads D3.

after that mollie basically forced me into following her, but it didn't matter since her reads were wrong anyway, and she started town reading me (or at least stopped pushing me) because... I'm not even sure why? because me deciding to work with her and not bothering to question her (entirely incorrect) reads after getting her in effect mislynched was such a genuine thing to do?

literally all I did was sit there and hard push ridiculous reads all game and it's honestly stupid that something like that was not only sufficient to carry the entire scum team, regardless of anything (or the lack of anything) they did, but probably could have caused one or two more mislynches if I needed them for whatever reason. even GIF, who is aware that I'm not that awful at the game, didn't realize this is what I was doing until the last day.

TTH said that she didn't really know what she could have done differently to get her Foxbird lynch D1, and it wasn't really her fault, it's the fault of people playing the game like this en masse which enables the loudest people to win most of the arguments without regard to how good their reasoning actually is.

/shrug

Hey, I pushed Bee and it really, really bugged me every time he said he was Conftown.

I will take the rest in stride though and note it, for I hadn't noticed the game had gone so far towards the loud rather than the analysts.

[pieguyn]

I wanted this to be a game I could point to and say "you all are fucking stupid, I have literally played a game where I was scum and just hard pushed wrong reads all game and got a perfect win out of it", but then D3 came around and I realized how fucked town was via the setup and I was like "OK this wasn't actually an accomplishment at all" and that took all the fun out of it. :<