Mini 1851 : Order of the Stick Mafia - Epilogue


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Post Post #2725 (ISO) » Tue Dec 13, 2016 2:08 am

Post by Leonshade »

Congratulations on slaying Xykon, I'm looking on with pride from the Lawful Good afterlife.

Now if I could find a way to the Chaotic Evil afterlife to fulfill my oath...
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Post Post #2726 (ISO) » Tue Dec 13, 2016 2:21 am

Post by Infinity 324 »

Also magna, why didn't you post people's role pms on flip? I thought most theme mods did that
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Post Post #2727 (ISO) » Tue Dec 13, 2016 3:10 am

Post by PeregrineV »

In post 2725, Leonshade wrote:Congratulations on slaying Xykon, I'm looking on with pride from the Lawful Good afterlife.

Now if I could find a way to the Chaotic Evil afterlife to fulfill my oath...
Yes. I think you need to be added to the list of winners.
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Post Post #2728 (ISO) » Tue Dec 13, 2016 3:53 am

Post by PeregrineV »

That was my best game in a million years! Never scumread, lynched all the right scum, and we won so easy it was almost pre-packaged!!

Except for Wisdom's shitty vig and bad day play, he did ok as town.

I could have had better night actions, maybe. But if we lynched Nacho day2 instead of Cake, then Leon would have lost a rolecop (even though Panther was lynched despite his result) would have left the game, and we would have mislynched someone else, bringning us closer to lylo. And Cake could have trotted out his fakelclaim and Tammy may have shot someone else and who knows what else could have happened.

And Tammy was the night1 kill, and Nacho was on the scumteam, so I feel like that whole conversation that I had about it was twilight zonish. I know Shadow posted the Tammy kill, but still doesn't contradict my thoughts that Tammy/ Nacho on opposite sides wants the other dead. Even night1 (or night5).

Good job town!!

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- Thanks for modding- it was a very fun game!!!
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Post Post #2729 (ISO) » Tue Dec 13, 2016 4:11 am

Post by Wisdom »

lol

i dont know how to respond to peregrine calling my play bad

i just wont
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Post Post #2730 (ISO) » Tue Dec 13, 2016 4:14 am

Post by PeregrineV »

In post 2729, Wisdom wrote:lol

i dont know how to respond to peregrine calling my play bad

i just wont
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Post Post #2731 (ISO) » Tue Dec 13, 2016 4:25 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

So first Mod Post-Game thoughts ..

I want to lead in with thanking all the players for making this game so smooth to Moderate. Minimal replacements, minimal prodding and no behavior that I thought needed prompting to curb. That’s a general testament to the playerbase and as a Mod I greatly appreciate it.

I think the outcome of the game most closely reflected the play of the particular teams. Generally Town had overall fairly good reads and recognition and scum play early on was a bit underwhelming. Perhaps the timing of the game around the Thanksgiving hurt the scum team more than the Town. That I’m not sure about.

I think overall all sides had pretty much unlucky or unfortunate Night actions and that part of the game was more or less a wash. On one hand scum had two blocked Nightkills and had their only Jailkeep fail as the person they blocked had a Strongman action. On the other the main protective role for Town twice foiled Towns’ main investigation role and failed to protect said investigation on Night 4. So I feel it was a wash.

I was disappointed that not a single one of the non-Town roles made any effective use of their Mod provided fake-claim. Shaddow’s wasn’t a big deal as his was a VT claim but as I said in the Dead Thread I think Cakez made a huge tactical error in not pre-emptively claiming Elan. farside / Panther could absolutely confirm their action and I think Nacho dying Day 2 instead of Cakez was the turning point where scum were doomed. Nacho being lynched would have removed Leonshade for free and Cakez probably could have cruised to a win on the basis of his claimed Vendor that had been proven. I also question why Nacho chose to claim VT when he had a perfectly reasonable 2 Shot Cop claim available to him that would have kept Infinity from busting him via investigation.

Leon – I’m not sure why you chose to go the route you did but I think you really undercut your chances of winning by not just choosing JOAT as your claim.

Given the response to this game I probably will be running a sequel in the not to distant future (next Sunday A.D.).

--
In post 2704, kraska77 wrote:(And sorry for my earlier fuck up MoI >. >)
No worries since it ended up being no harm done.

--
In post 2711, Tammy wrote:Thank you for running it magna! It was a lot of fun, Though I did have a meltdown after the quicklynching
I couldn’t say anything during the game but I completely sympathize with your thoughts in the Neighbor PT. Both the Panther and Leon lynches were rushed or the result of not paying attention. Luckily Town was in a good enough position to not be hurt by it.

--
In post 2713, Kagami wrote:Interestingly, game could have ended night 1 no less easily than katsuki's did
Aside from the fact that statistically this isn’t exactly accurate I was somewhat amused at how much credence was given to posts over 4 years old that had more to do with me needling Katsuki than anything else.

--
In post 2726, Infinity 324 wrote:Also magna, why didn't you post people's role pms on flip? I thought most theme mods did that
I guess the easy answer is because I don’t as a personal modding preference, at least during the game. Unless the game is specifically an Open game I don’t necessarily see the point of doing so when the character name and role name should be enough information by which to judge claims and actions of a slot.

Obviously everyone has different standards.
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Post Post #2732 (ISO) » Tue Dec 13, 2016 4:28 am

Post by Wisdom »

In post 2731, MagnaofIllusion wrote:Leon – I’m not sure why you chose to go the route you did but I think you really undercut your chances of winning by not just choosing JOAT as your claim.
I still don't understand why he needed a fakeclaim; his role was pro-town as it was
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Post Post #2733 (ISO) » Tue Dec 13, 2016 4:31 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

In post 2732, Wisdom wrote:I still don't understand why he needed a fakeclaim; his role was pro-town as it was
Regardless of how effectively Pro-Town his role was (and it could work against Town in certain circumstances) it would have been bad Modding to not provide him a fake-claim that showed the Town Wincondition even if he never needed to use it. And 3rd Party claims are always met with some level of suspicion (given the "Lyncher on Town" talk in this game you cannot disagree) so having a Mod provided option to claim as straight Town I also consider reasonable.
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Post Post #2734 (ISO) » Tue Dec 13, 2016 5:19 am

Post by Infinity 324 »

I guess I don't feel like there's any reason to have confusion about roles when they're already flipped. I don't think you should give room for people having to discuss the wording of the role like they did in this game, it's better to just have the whole thing out in the open imo.
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Post Post #2735 (ISO) » Tue Dec 13, 2016 5:30 am

Post by PeregrineV »

In post 2734, Infinity 324 wrote:I guess I don't feel like there's any reason to have confusion about roles when they're already flipped. I don't think you should give room for people having to discuss the wording of the role like they did in this game, it's better to just have the whole thing out in the open imo.
I think in a Normal game, the role flip is fine.

If it happens in a theme game, I'm just thankful, because frankly I don't expect it. Themes have room for more mechanics and interactions that are non-standard, so getting a name that is something like
Felix, Town 2-shot Jailkeeper
is much better than
Felix, Town Android Repairman
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Post Post #2736 (ISO) » Tue Dec 13, 2016 5:31 am

Post by Nachomamma8 »

In post 2731, MagnaofIllusion wrote:I also question why Nacho chose to claim VT when he had a perfectly reasonable 2 Shot Cop claim available to him that would have kept Infinity from busting him via investigation.
My expectation for that day was that Cakez would get run up, claim Fruit Vendor, wagon would dissolve and end up on me. If I claimed cop, then it would have been smarter for the town to kill Cakez and investigate me as opposed to the other way around.
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Post Post #2737 (ISO) » Tue Dec 13, 2016 5:47 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

In post 2736, Nachomamma8 wrote:My expectation for that day was that Cakez would get run up, claim Fruit Vendor, wagon would dissolve and end up on me. If I claimed cop, then it would have been smarter for the town to kill Cakez and investigate me as opposed to the other way around.
Makes sense ...
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Post Post #2738 (ISO) » Tue Dec 13, 2016 6:05 am

Post by shaddowez »

Good game all - scumteam, sorry for being so terrible.
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Post Post #2739 (ISO) » Tue Dec 13, 2016 6:15 am

Post by Infinity 324 »

In post 2735, PeregrineV wrote:
In post 2734, Infinity 324 wrote:I guess I don't feel like there's any reason to have confusion about roles when they're already flipped. I don't think you should give room for people having to discuss the wording of the role like they did in this game, it's better to just have the whole thing out in the open imo.
I think in a Normal game, the role flip is fine.

If it happens in a theme game, I'm just thankful, because frankly I don't expect it. Themes have room for more mechanics and interactions that are non-standard, so getting a name that is something like
Felix, Town 2-shot Jailkeeper
is much better than
Felix, Town Android Repairman
.
Maybe it's a personal thing, I just find it annoying because I'm used to knowing exactly what everyone's role does after the flip. And I think more mods than not that I've played with do post the full role pm in themes.
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Post Post #2740 (ISO) » Tue Dec 13, 2016 7:12 am

Post by Leonshade »

I claimed my real role to make my claim less suspicious. I was already under pressure, so I figured it was better to claim my real role to explain the scummy behavior than go "I'm town with this powerful role". In hindsight I probably should've claimed town and everything about my role except the strongman at the very start, since the strongman is so powerful. The only reason I didn't was that I figured scum could roleblock my flavor cop.
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Post Post #2741 (ISO) » Tue Dec 13, 2016 7:13 am

Post by Leonshade »

Most frustrating things to read:

#3: Your role is too powerful to be town.
#2: You wouldn't have a fakeclaim with that role.
#1: You can't have possibly figured out Tammy & kraska's flavor by yourself.
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Post Post #2742 (ISO) » Tue Dec 13, 2016 7:18 am

Post by PeregrineV »

In post 2741, Leonshade wrote:Most frustrating things to read:

#3: Your role is too powerful to be town.
#2: You wouldn't have a fakeclaim with that role.
#1: You can't have possibly figured out Tammy & kraska's flavor by yourself.
3p lyncher was more believable to me. We already had a dayvig and some sort of vig in the hood, so you claiming town would have made me more skeptical.
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Post Post #2743 (ISO) » Tue Dec 13, 2016 7:40 am

Post by Wisdom »

In post 2741, Leonshade wrote:#2: You wouldn't have a fakeclaim with that role.
#1: You can't have possibly figured out Tammy & kraska's flavor by yourself.
They both were weird, especially having a fakeclaim for a protown role

Even with magna's justification i dont agree
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Post Post #2744 (ISO) » Tue Dec 13, 2016 8:25 am

Post by Kagami »

Leon should claim Town with that role regardless of his having received an official fakeclaim.

If he had no mod-provided fakeclaim, he might have been screwed if it somehow became evident that he didn't know the town win condition. The need for an official fakeclaim arises from the policy that only scum get to know what's going on with certainty, which MoI properly executed.
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Post Post #2745 (ISO) » Tue Dec 13, 2016 8:27 am

Post by Kagami »

I think it would be somewhat more elegant to just make the Town Win Condition public knowledge, though.
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Post Post #2746 (ISO) » Tue Dec 13, 2016 8:30 am

Post by Wisdom »

Yeah, the town win condition should be in the first posts in a sample role PM or something
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Post Post #2747 (ISO) » Tue Dec 13, 2016 11:37 am

Post by Kagami »

As a minor criticism, I'm not crazy about the almost-but-not-quite flavor confirmations.

Iterations of this setup could easily be decided by whether or not people are inclined to treat the flavor surrounding things such as the various death scenes or the "Go Board" hood as meaningful or not.

While it's fine to have ambiguity in what flavor might have been involved in some scene, I don't think it's a good idea to let it be unclear whether or not these things should be read into.

A good way to resolve that would just to be explicit with what flavor indicates in non-flavor text. e.g. Shadowwez could appear as "shaddowez - Tsukiko, Mafia Goon, was
cut in half
Night 1" in the OP and at the flip.
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Post Post #2748 (ISO) » Tue Dec 13, 2016 11:45 am

Post by Nachomamma8 »

i just wanted to push roy off a building
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Post Post #2749 (ISO) » Tue Dec 13, 2016 11:50 am

Post by Leonshade »

Rude.
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