(NSFW) Mini 1882 - TPTG Mafia 1.5: The Fappening (NoWins)

[RachMarie]

It was not fully understanding the mechanism at first, Or else I would have have stepped up sooner, plus of course trying to sort out who I thought was town and who I thought was scumz. Really my earliest town read was on Gork and he was snatched up pretty quickly. I was also rather busy with RL with the game first started too.

Still am but not as busy, doing freelance work means I have times that are busier than others, plus of course I have the product launches over the next 3 months to get the money for the move, but I am working with a partner on those.

[Jaqen Hghar]

No. This isn't making any sense.

What's the problem with killing scum, and then killing scum?

Nightphases reduce the number of player slots, by bookin one player to another. If we book to town, we remove a town player slot. If we book a town with a scum, I believe we remove a town player slot, because I assume that player slot will be treated as scum.

If we kill scum today, then move to the night phase, one way or the other, we are losing a town player slot during the night phase, unless we magically are able to get scum to pair with eachother today, and the scum we lynch books that pair.

TL;DR: Night phases hurt town. We can lynch multiple players in one day phase if we are well coordinated. Therefore, we should lynch the most scum possible at once in order to reduce the number of night phases.

This one is over complicating things. Wincon checks are no different this game than any other. Scum must needs physically outnumber us to win. Ask the mod. A man is sure he will confirm this with you as well. Which means lylo.

[podoboq]

Scum must needs physically outnumber us to win.

The way that "playerslots" has been used by the moderator, and the mechanic of linking players in the first place, implies that two players BECOME one. The alignment of that pair comes into question when those two slots are different.

If you think the moderators are likely to respond to me explicitly asking them for the scum win condition, you're fucking nuts, but I'll go ahead and do it.

[podoboq]

I feel like an idiot, but message sent. I'll let you know the results if I receive any.

[Jaqen Hghar]

A man already asking specific questions about wincon because he is doing math yesterday. That one is replying that player slots have nothing to do with wincon. His posted rules are even explicit on this- player slots are used in the orgy mechanic. A man is sure he will answer you the same- that we must needs be outnumbered by scum, or nothing can stop that from happening, before we are losing. If there are 3 scum we currently outnumber them by a 2:1 margin. With the possibility of eliminating multiple players in a single stroke, getting kill happy as you suggest is reckless and scum motivated. It's as if you are trying to rush us to victory just to say "I hope you aren't tricking me" once the deed is done.

Nice touch trying to paint a man as scum saying a mod won't answer answer your question about "scum wincon" when it's clearly a general mechanics question. A man is requesting both Rach and Gorkington ask of the mod the same question so this one can't lie and say the mod wouldn't answer him.

[podoboq]

With the possibility of eliminating multiple players in a single stroke, getting kill happy as you suggest is reckless and scum motivated.

I'm suggesting a line of play that plays to a very specific win condition that I have spelled out. You are describing a DIFFERENT win condition, applying my line of play, then calling that line of play scummy, but none of that strategy is informed by the win condition you are describing.

If I am wrong, and the win condition is DIFFERENT from the one that I have based my line of play on, then I will adapt my play to something better suited to the new information.


Describing a hypothetical situation in which my strategy doesn't work when I have explicitly stated that I do not think that hypothetical situation is in play, then calling my strategy scum motivated, is at best neglecting to adequately read what I'm saying and is at worst just flagrant misrepping.

[podoboq]

A man is requesting both Rach and Gorkington ask of the mod the same question so this one can't lie and say the mod wouldn't answer him.

Also, why specifically Rach and Gork? Are they your biggest townreads all of a sudden? Why is Firebringer not included in that since you have a supposed copclear on the pair?

[Jaqen Hghar]

Those ones have always been townreads. A man is leaving out firebringer because many are in doubt of him on the first place. And a man isn't talking about a hypothetical situation- that's you. A man is talking about what the rules clearly state (and which he is already double checking with a mod). They state "Any Lovers are treated as a single slot for the purposes of Orgy Mechanic," and "Each day phase will start with an odd-number of playerslots. If at any time this cannot be accomplished, the Town will win.", and that's all there is to playerslots. The rest is something you are fabricating to push an agenda. How the bloody hell is making things up and fear-mongering town into a course of action not scum motivated?

[podoboq]

Those ones have always been townreads. A man is leaving out firebringer because many are in doubt of him on the first place. And a man isn't talking about a hypothetical situation- that's you. A man is talking about what the rules clearly state (and which he is already double checking with a mod). They state "Any Lovers are treated as a single slot for the purposes of Orgy Mechanic," and "Each day phase will start with an odd-number of playerslots. If at any time this cannot be accomplished, the Town will win.", and that's all there is to playerslots. The rest is something you are fabricating to push an agenda. How the bloody hell is making things up and fear-mongering town into a course of action not scum motivated?

I'm doing exactly what I did yesterday. Examining our options, and trying to ferret out discussion on elements of the game we do not know.

NONE of what you just said outlines a scum wincondition. None of what you are saying rules out how I was reading the scum wincondition. If the mods come in and tell me something explicit that rules out what I'm considering (I asked three questions by the way. What is the scum wincon, are merged playerslots considered a single player for the purpose of majority, and if so, what is the alignment of a playerslot which includes both town and scum players,) then and only then will I consider it impossible.

The only agenda I'm pushing is an attempt at eliminating the most scum possible in the safest way possible. If you, Jaqen/Kuroi, and Rach/Firebringer ALL have to die at some point, then we should examine and discuss the possibility of murdering them all at once, and the various pros and cons of doing so.

Deterring

us from that discussion is scum motivated. This entire game has been a process of town not communicating enough, and an abundance of players hindering that communication where possible.

[Jaqen Hghar]

A man is pointing out to this one that discussion doesn't mean 'follow podoq's plan'. Discussion is bringing opposing views to the table and making a decision. What a man is proposing is making a decision which is informed rather than haphazardly jumping in the deep end. But it seems this one is much and more interested in seeing how well we can swim the quickest way possible...

[Fresh]

@Podo, yes it was scummy to not try and confirm scum. Which is what anything but killing DGB/MoI was gonna help us do.

You were trying to confirm scum in Jaqen, correct? I was discussing the option of KILLING Jaqen, which would have confirmed his alignment one way or the other, and therefore confirmed the possible validity of his checks.

Listen, you are NOT the only person yesterday who wanted to forgo our other options, so I'm not stupid enough to scumread you for it. Town agreed to a plan, and you were one of many voices who contributed toward us following that plan, but you called me scummy for wanting to consider our other options (which would also confirm scum). THAT is what I have a problem with, and that's what I'm considering when I'm trying to find any more scum.

You are purposely neglecting that the course of action had the potential to obtain MULTIPLE clears not just the alignment of Jaqen.

I'm not blind to your point. But cucking him doesn't say shit about his results being true or false unless he's scum. Cucking them gave us multiple insights that:
Jaqen is likely scum
1 of Rach/Fire could likely be scum now.
Likely NOT two of Kuroi/Snark being scum.

But had we cucked Jaqen yesterday and he was indeed scum, it just wouldn't have told us anything else about anyone. We have a better mindset of narrowed down potential scum now and we just need to make the right decisions.

[Gorkington]

im gonna spend the rest of this cycle thinking of ways to insult jaqen

[Gorkington]

i'd also like to revisit how completely baffled i am that dgb was completely unwilling to consider jaqen being scum.

you know.

the important points right now.

[Jaqen Hghar]

i'd also like to revisit how completely baffled i am that dgb was completely unwilling to consider jaqen being scum.

you know.

the important points right now.

Probably because that one takes the time to understand a man's mindset and interpret where his thoughts are coming from instead of just slapping a label on a man...

[podoboq]

Cucking them gave us multiple insights that:
Jaqen is likely scum
1 of Rach/Fire could likely be scum now.
Likely NOT two of Kuroi/Snark being scum.

But had we cucked Jaqen yesterday and he was indeed scum, it just wouldn't have told us anything else about anyone.

Cucking Jaqen yesterday would have given us multiple insights that:
Jaqen is confirmed scum
1 of Rach/Fire could likely be scum now.
Likely NOT two of Kuroi/Snark being scum.
Likely neither of MoI or DGB being scum.

A scumflip from Jaqen accomplishes all the same things, but it also KILLS scum and DOESN'T kill town.

[podoboq]

Also moderators got back to me. No, they won't tell me the scum wincondition. They did confirm, though, that in the case that majority is counted for win condition, a simple majority is all that matters (not taking into account "playerslots"), and all of the mechanics around playerslots only matter for the whole cucking and booking and them dying together at night thing.

Essentially, normal scum win condition is likely intact. We can play a little more conservatively.

[podoboq]

A man is pointing out to this one that discussion doesn't mean 'follow podoq's plan'. Discussion is bringing opposing views to the table and making a decision.

Town: Opinions on cucking Rach/Fire, Jaqen, and Kuroi/Snarky all today?

I was attempting to do the latter, but the only two who have humored discussing my idea today have been scum. "Discussion is bringing opposing view to the table and making a decision." This is what I'm attempting to do, and you called it "scum motivated."

[RachMarie]

@ Podo
thanks that helps a lot and I understand the great modly ones can only say so much

I am here but I have been really sick this week so not very active on the computer even work wise and I am so behind

I realize that my sub may be scum, and I would be willing to die so he dies. I thought that was the plan we were working on? Or are we looking at modifying MoI's original plan?

[podoboq]

If we both flip Town? Jaqen is not linked and should be tomorrow’s strand. Make him still perform a scan before flipping on the off chance he is Town and probably don’t direct it as if he is scum it is 100% WIFOM. Flip Snarky / Kuroi the next day for the same reasons listed in the first scenario if Jaqen is Town. If Jaqen is scum it probably is best served to flip Fire / Rach. The fact that Rach has specifically dodged my question about whether Fire is no longer Town to her if Jaqen is scum is pretty telling.

I had forgotten that Magna laid out a plan. If we don't multikill today, this seems best.

[RachMarie]

LOL did not dodge it

I fully admit I could be wrong on fire who used to be all in, overall he has been a rather disappointing sub and not been very active even when I asked questions in the PT

I was hoping to have someone to bounce ideas off of and I got mostly a pile of nothin.

very disappointed, I think he needs to be punished.

[Gorkington]

Probably because that one takes the time to understand a man's mindset and interpret where his thoughts are coming from instead of just slapping a label on a man...

she slapped a label on moi.
and hes confirmed town at this point.

i really think this game is mountainous.
and im really sad at myself for letting mechanics talk drive what i thought was the best decision vs what i was actually feeling at the time.

whoever's town in shos, fresh and firebringer can you start being townier.

[shos]

That's me. I agree that it is probably mountainous and we should cuck jaqen. in turn he will kill by using the lovebook, and then we'll cuck the snarkuroi pair. I don't see why this is too complicated though.

We just need an OK from everyone and let's get it done.

[podoboq]

That's me. I agree that it is probably mountainous and we should cuck jaqen. in turn he will kill by using the lovebook, and then we'll cuck the snarkuroi pair. I don't see why this is too complicated though.

We just need an OK from everyone and let's get it done.

Why will Jaqen kill with the book of love? We don't know that booking is mandatory. If we kill scum, maybe they'll refuse to use it, and then scum will get a nightkill.

[Jaqen Hghar]

Because it is. Killing of, what, 5 players at once is putting all of one's eggs into a single basket. Being at either 6/3 or 7/2 right now something like this is naught but pandering to popular opinion and is easily costing town the game. A man isn't scum regardless of how much you are trying to push that as a given.

[Jaqen Hghar]

^IRT 1166