Mini 1887 - Oddrole Mafia (Game over)

[alban]

My vote on alban was legit. Didn't like how he tried to make out socrates' reveal was bad. It's a role that severely hinders town, and thus us knowing it's there aids us in the knowledge of what could happen. I think a scum.in that role would be better off keeping quiet and letting confusion reign down. Especially if he was still alive late game and, say, a confirmed cop type was investigating someone and got random blocked. Then town could mislymch because of it.

By announcing it, we're prepared for things, the information helps the town massively, as opposed to if we knew nothing.

Sure. Agreed. My comment was more as a player than as a townie who wants to win at any cost. I wanna have fun. So Socrates could have maybe claimed a lil later in d1.

2 things surprise me about you, dwlee and others who are voting for me based on my comment:
- how readily you are accepting socrates's claim, and how less inclined you are to question his claim.
- you are unable to explain how my comment is scummy for you to want to vote for me. Socrates might be town, but why is scummy to ask him to withhold role info for a few more calendar days?

[Dwlee99]

It is a negative utility role, you claim it in your first post, full stop. Unless you have extremely good reason to, you have to do it in your first post, it is like a miller. That isnt even why Im voting you, though, Im voting you because who the heck asks "Are we still in RVS?" outside of your first games.

[Dwlee99]

It is like you were trying to alleviate pressure on your slot by asking any question to seem useful.

[alban]

'Like' being the operative word. Conjecture.
I didn't feel any pressure. So there's no question about alleviating it.
Your arguments are quite juvenile.
VOTE: dwlee

[PranaDevil]

I can easily answer why it's scummy.

You hope people will vote for him, and get rid of a roleblocker that might screw the scum over, thus rather than let him get to night were he may hit one of the mafia, get rid of him early on.

[Dwlee99]

Age:15

[Dwlee99]

I am being wagoned too.

[Dwlee99]

I would argue that is feeling some type of pressure.

[Randomnamechange]

tbh this doesn't seem that different from alban in the JK9++ i modded, so idk if its really scummy of him to do this.

[Randomnamechange]

WAIT A MINUTE
HE WAS SCUM IN THAT GAME

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

WAIT A MINUTE
HE WAS SCUM IN THAT GAME

THE TABLES HAVE TURNED

[Socrates]

Alban is more interested in having fun than in playing well.

Scum hang back from a claim like mine and watch to see the winds of the town.
Young town try to comment on claims like mine because they feel like it's important, so they should say something.
Old town hang back from a claim like mine and watch to see how I follow up. Am I just trying to get people to read me, or am

I

looking for reads?

At least one of the players voting Alban is scum.

Prana's is the strongest articulated vote. Dwlee is applying pressure as he should, but Alban is making it easy for him so that doesn't mean much.

@Gin: Do you think Alban is scummy, or just being dumb?

VOTE: Not_Mafia

[Dwlee99]

Scum hang back from a claim like mine and watch to see the winds of the town.
Young town try to comment on claims like mine because they feel like it's important, so they should say something.
Old town hang back from a claim like mine and watch to see how I follow up. Am I just trying to get people to read me, or am I looking for reads?

At least one of the players voting Alban is scum.

Uhmm, non sequitur?

[Dwlee99]

That entire post is one. Your vote on not mafia is completely out of nowhere, your claim that there is scum on alban is out of nowhere.

[Dwlee99]

WAIT A MINUTE
HE WAS SCUM IN THAT GAME

So vote him?

[Socrates]

Scum hang back from a claim like mine and watch to see the winds of the town.
Young town try to comment on claims like mine because they feel like it's important, so they should say something.
Old town hang back from a claim like mine and watch to see how I follow up. Am I just trying to get people to read me, or am I looking for reads?

At least one of the players voting Alban is scum.

Uhmm, non sequitur?

Here are the winds of the town: Alban said something stupid about my claim. POUNCE! Scum didn't vote me, they voted Alban. There's a light chance that he's very flighty scum that said what he said, but that makes it even more likely that one of his buddies would make sure to get a vote on him early.

I am looking at the players that are surrounding the wagon and prodding at them. This isn't that complicated.

Note that Not_Mafia was the first to vote Alban. Silently.

[Dwlee99]

Scum hang back from a claim like mine and watch to see the winds of the town.
Young town try to comment on claims like mine because they feel like it's important, so they should say something.
Old town hang back from a claim like mine and watch to see how I follow up. Am I just trying to get people to read me, or am I looking for reads?

At least one of the players voting Alban is scum.

Uhmm, non sequitur?

Here are the winds of the town: Alban said something stupid about my claim. POUNCE! Scum didn't vote me, they voted Alban. There's a light chance that he's very flighty scum that said what he said, but that makes it even more likely that one of his buddies would make sure to get a vote on him early.

I am looking at the players that are surrounding the wagon and prodding at them. This isn't that complicated.

Note that Not_Mafia was the first to vote Alban. Silently.

Scum voting you would be like voting someone for claiming miller: That is dumb.
Not mafia wasnt the first to vote alban, bork bork was in response to alban wanting to wagon someone. Not mafia did naked vote him, but Im hard pressed to say that means he is scum, regardless of alban's alignment. I have seen town naked vote plenty of times (and have done it myself, especially at the beginning of games.)
The players on the wagon are bork bork, not mafia, prana, menno, and me. Not mafia naked voting him making him scum seems even less likely when you consider bork bork's reason for a vote and menno's joining the wagon in response to alban saying there was a wagon on him (and knowing menno probably in a joking way.)

[Dwlee99]

And based on experience a few times being scum and getting voted early, depending on the other scum players they can hop on at any time. I remember the one time my scum buddy hopped on my wagon with a short little post as the 5th or 6th vote, I think where the vote is is completely NAI, and arguing it is optimal for scum to hop on early is irrelevant when you realize that people do not play optimally as any alignment.

[Jaack]

While I wasn't in love with the initial reason that people were voting alban, posts 50 and 53 make me feel much more comfortable with that wagon.

The points alban brings up in 50 are kind of irrelevant. No one is treating socrates claim as gospel truth really and there's not all that much to question about it. Furthermore alban's 'questioning' about it seems pretty directionless. His initial concern (22) seems more concerned with fun than alignment related stuff. (I do actually have a question about socrates' role that I'll get to later)

The second point in 50 is pretty bad too. Alban doesn't ask prana to explain his scumread further, he just assumes that prana can't and goes on the offensive. This is deflecting more than anything.

53 is more deflecting. Multiple people had at that point offered reasons for scumreading alban, so to say he feels no pressure is a cognate disonance that conveniently avoids addressing the points people brough up.

I'm not sure if alban is at L-2 or L-3 right now so I'll hold off voting until we get a count (I'm also too lazy to do one myself) but consider my vote to be there in spirit.

@socrates - Are you informed who you roleblocked?

[Dwlee99]

Alban is L-2

[Socrates]

Scum voting you would be like voting someone for claiming miller: That is dumb.
Not mafia wasnt the first to vote alban, bork bork was in response to alban wanting to wagon someone. Not mafia did naked vote him, but Im hard pressed to say that means he is scum, regardless of alban's alignment. I have seen town naked vote plenty of times (and have done it myself, especially at the beginning of games.)
The players on the wagon are bork bork, not mafia, prana, menno, and me. Not mafia naked voting him making him scum seems even less likely when you consider bork bork's reason for a vote and menno's joining the wagon in response to alban saying there was a wagon on him (and knowing menno probably in a joking way.)

I must admit that I missed that Bork Bork was voting him, but that's really just an empty RVS vote before the point I'm talking about. Not_Mafia was the first to respond to Alban's post with a vote.

And yes, naked voting is not inherently a scum tell. I essentially naked voted Not_Mafia myself*. I was testing to see how he would handle the reciprocation. How serious is the vote? How self-conscious is he about it? Is he present and lurking as the wagon grows or just hasn't looked at the thread since his last vote? Yadda yadda yadaa. If he appeared and I liked what he said, I was planning to move my focus onto Menno. But that's all pretty much moot now that you've drawn attention to the vote and poo-poo'd it.

*Further note that Prana also naked voted Alban very soon after, but Prana then followed up and said more.

Gin and Tonic is also here, hanging out around the wagon. He +1'd Prana's reasoning to vote, but kept his own where it is and I don't believe he has said much about Alban's alignment. Hence the direct question.

This wagon is at L-2 and you directly asked another player to put their vote down on Alban and now another player has appeared and is about to vote. How happy are you with this? Are you really pot-committed on Alban being scum at this point? Enough to put him in claim territory?

[Dwlee99]

Yep, I am.

[Socrates]

While I wasn't in love with the initial reason that people were voting alban, posts 50 and 53 make me feel much more comfortable with that wagon.

The points alban brings up in 50 are kind of irrelevant. No one is treating socrates claim as gospel truth really and there's not all that much to question about it. Furthermore alban's 'questioning' about it seems pretty directionless. His initial concern (22) seems more concerned with fun than alignment related stuff. (I do actually have a question about socrates' role that I'll get to later)

The second point in 50 is pretty bad too. Alban doesn't ask prana to explain his scumread further, he just assumes that prana can't and goes on the offensive. This is deflecting more than anything.

53 is more deflecting. Multiple people had at that point offered reasons for scumreading alban, so to say he feels no pressure is a cognate disonance that conveniently avoids addressing the points people brough up.

I'm not sure if alban is at L-2 or L-3 right now so I'll hold off voting until we get a count (I'm also too lazy to do one myself) but consider my vote to be there in spirit.

@socrates - Are you informed who you roleblocked?

Only scum would benefit from knowing that information today, so I'm going to play that close to my chest for now. (They need to know if I'm a potential excuse or a potential threat)

You hold off on voting for a vote count, but you sound like you planning to vote him regardless of what it turns out to be. Am I correct?

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

After about 100 posts or so I'll start to get down and dirty, right now I've been floating around a bit chilling with RVS. I've got a special role and I'm trying to keep on the low profiles so i dont die at night >_>

[Dwlee99]

the fuck ^