Mini 1906 - It's An Owners Market Blitz (Game Over)


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Post Post #925 (ISO) » Tue May 23, 2017 6:10 am

Post by Prism »

Yeah, I mean town put in a lot of effort to get you and then just thought the game was over.

I'm fine releasing the scum PT, by the way.
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Post Post #926 (ISO) » Tue May 23, 2017 6:46 am

Post by Gamma Emerald »

Release it
<Embrace The Void>


My pronouns are she and it, please respect that. I don't mind the occasional slip.
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Post Post #927 (ISO) » Tue May 23, 2017 7:34 pm

Post by Prism »

I'm still interested on hearing other thoughts on the game, from both town members and particularly from Regfan as an outside party.
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Post Post #928 (ISO) » Tue May 23, 2017 11:58 pm

Post by Regfan »

Yeah I'll releasing my thoughts in the next ~48 hours, just without a laptop ATM.
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Post Post #929 (ISO) » Wed May 24, 2017 9:02 pm

Post by Alisae »

I was slightly paying attention to this and was mostly just paying attention to see how the mechanic played out because it seemed really interesting to me.
How was designing the mechanic? Also, can I try running the mechanic with some tweaks? Because this seems very fun and interesting to run.
GTKAS
| here.
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Post Post #930 (ISO) » Wed May 24, 2017 10:00 pm

Post by Vecna »

In post 927, Prism wrote:I'm still interested on hearing other thoughts on the game, from both town members and particularly from Regfan as an outside party.
People paying more attention to voting behaviour, proper bidding on items or opinions from people that were NK'd wouldve resulted in a very simple town-win. They didnt.
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Post Post #931 (ISO) » Thu May 25, 2017 10:16 am

Post by Socrates »

My play this game was pretty poor, but a lot of that genuinely had to do with my focus being split across too many games. There's also cross-game contamination that one has to consider, and that always makes me anxious when I'm playing scum.

I think what happened with Tywin really demoralized the town, and we pretty much won the moment it happened.

The funny thing is, as I alluded to when i voted him, Tywin's arguments about scum protecting scum day 1 were spot on, he just failed to apply it to the right person. Me derailing the Gamma wagon should have pointed at Gamma to him, not away.

My claim wouldn't have held up if I had to prove my funds, but at that point we were past the mid-day update and we could have just obscured the Godfather bid. This is easier than trying to explain why I wouldn't have protected night 3 with a Doc x 2 claim, which if we had planned better we could have said Prism saw me target Infinity. The game was over either way at that point, so all I needed was something to last for the day.

About the setup, best play for scum is to ignore the pro-scum items and just go for the best town items (aside from daykill), because that kills two birds with one stone. We keep the investigations out of town hands (thus not even needing the pro-scum counters), and have the freedom to fake investigations. Incongruities with funds are difficult to parse due to missing information from the dead, so making the numbers add up isn't that hard.

And, as I more or less told the town day 1: We bought the one role that had much utility, and then let the town overspend on the rest. In fact, not only did the tracker turn out to not be a problem, he actually identified the Doc X 2 for us, which is what helped us seal the game.
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Post Post #932 (ISO) » Thu May 25, 2017 10:22 am

Post by Socrates »

Oh, and my reaction to being 'hammered' wasn't fake. But Prism was the only one to note that I did what scum do when hammered: Shut up and walk away.
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Post Post #933 (ISO) » Fri May 26, 2017 7:26 pm

Post by Regfan »

Sorry about the delay on it but I've now released the Scum QT which can be accessed here, you'll notice how well the scum worked together in regards to play, night actions and bidding plans; their cohesion was very impressive, they most certainly were the alignment that deserved the win compared to towns lurking.

I think town had pretty much all of the information they needed to win and solve this game, particularly in regards to the D1 wagon on Gamma that vanished and how D2 played out with Socrates/Gamma, lots of voting logic and motivation analysis could have won this game. Similarly town really underused the mechanics here, they needed to be bidding a lot more (And more substantial bids) then what played out, scum were allowed to win too many items far too cheaply and town did nothing to attempt to catch them from this. There's several different tactics that town could have enacted but didn't, I'm not particularly interested in walking through all of them but I did touch on a few inside the Spectator PT if people are interested in what I'm referring to.

Town needed to get Auction Detective x 2 at the very minimum enhanced both N1/N2 and likely Auction Detective x 1 too as they're actually very strong powers that need to come out early so people have opportunities to use them optimally, similarly cop needs to come out early; sure scum can win it but it means devoting lots of their funds towards it and means you can plausibly catch them from this bid.

As Prism noted scum making claims re; what bids they made and what they won isn't the easiest thing to do, it requires the scum team to have some forethought about this before mass-claim happens and means mafia can't just devote their entire bank to winning mafia-helpful items. Think Nacho mentioned this too as I ran this exact setup over at DLP (Which ended in a mafia victory in a 3 way LYLO) in that even scum in "good positions" are never massively ahead if town can use the mechanic well enough. I think overall it's a fairly balanced setup that requires teams to actually think about the mechanic on a deeper level and whoever is using it more/better is going to have an (deserved) advantage.
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Post Post #934 (ISO) » Fri May 26, 2017 7:33 pm

Post by Regfan »

In post 922, Prism wrote:I also have the exact opposite thoughts of ABR. Town had a huge advantage mechanically. The bids themselves are investigative, serving to clear some players while damning others. Ex. Socrates didn't have as much as he claimed, momo essentially cleared himself with the high neighborizer bid.

Town also literally had double the money of scum. Plenty of money to go around. $5000 vs. $2400. Town figured out that all of them bidding $301 meant that we couldn't do shit without being caught in a lie later (Scun can only win one power each for $301 before the numbers stop adding up).
All of this is true; the setups designed so that while it's 10 v 3 with scum having daytalk and town starting with no powers (Which is massively mafia sided) the abilities that town win as well as bids being alignment indicative in a lot of instances and very informative overall is a huge thing.
In post 929, Alisae wrote:I was slightly paying attention to this and was mostly just paying attention to see how the mechanic played out because it seemed really interesting to me.
How was designing the mechanic? Also, can I try running the mechanic with some tweaks? Because this seems very fun and interesting to run.
It was designed overall a few months, had a lot of help with it too most notably from Pieguyn, Callforjudgement and Realeo though there's probably half a dozen other names that have 'reviewed' the setup, I've run it over at DLP; Owners Marketplace if you're interested in seeing how the setup played out over there. I've no issue with you running the mechanic / setup and tweaking it before doing so, let me know when you do because I wouldn't mind following along as a spectator!
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Post Post #935 (ISO) » Fri May 26, 2017 7:38 pm

Post by Regfan »

This is largely amended from a comment I made post-game at the other site but still relevant over here;

An entire element of optimal town play that I'd expected people to use never made it into the game which is probably fair enough given people here seem less familiar with mechanic type games but still sad. Once scum had made their $501 bid on Daykill D3 town should have started playing this setup different on D4; you ask people that haven't claimed an item yet to bid $401 on certain items before the mid day interval, if they're unable to do so you've caught a scum player (Scum have the out in that the can either a) Hide the price or b) Have a partner bid for them to cover it) but you can remove scum teams of any pairing that has made $401 bids together and really start getting a feel for how much money scum have left from it. The game could have turned into a logical puzzle to solve with the information and situation scum put themselves in with the daykill outbid but town just didn't have the motivation to do so.

Still the biggest blunder for town was probably not no lynching on the final day phase, more time and flips would have helped for sure.

Anyway thanks everyone for playing and congratulations to the scum team again.

Also congratulations to Gerryoat for winning the Spectator guess-the-mafia-team game.
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