Mini 1939 - Organization XIII (Game Over)

[IV Vexen]

That's a question, btw. With question marks. Just looks like the top half of them is invisible for some reason.

[IV Vexen]

Will return to this on the morrow, but I just realized how late it is and I need to wake up in about 5 hours, so... Night yall.

Still want that elaboration on the Xal wagon, btw, Xiggy.

[II Xigbar]

I'm fine with you feeling a little paranoid about my slot but I think that'll probably go away for you once you realize who I am / once I push a lynch on scum (basically no doubt left in my mind about who you are).

I had a guess from their second post and this confirmed it.

[II Xigbar]

Huh. Iso-ing Xig for a Xal case, and while the early stuff is still towny, the last few posts have been all kinds of meh. 307 particularly seems like... garbage. Like the whole concept...

"I lied about my reads so I could see what you'd do. And if you were town you could still do the exact same thing as I think you might have done as scum, because I'm afraid you're trying to pocket me."

1) This is hugely misrepresenting what actually happened and the specific manner feels like scum trying to spin me as scummy.
The specific act of the quotation marks (specifically creating a narrative about what I was doing) is something bad scum do a lot to push scumreads, and is a huge scumtell.
2) I lied about a scumread to see how it would influence their read on the slot. It's a minor thing that has many potential reactions.
I think that that particular response is what they would do as scum. They also -might- do it as town. I think that there are other reactions that would clearly demarcate town or scum.

Larxy and Lexy (who should really be masons with names like that) appear to have sheeped Xig. Whose reasoning amounted to not liking Xal's first three posts. Luxia, from context of 314-316 appears to be voting out of some weird concern for the deadline. Like, if Saix weren't making such wonderfully jiggly motions in response to my vote on him, I'd vote Luxia for those three. It's just so gross that it makes me want to stop eating for a couple of weeks. It's weird to me that a wagon so full of townreads can also look like such hot garbage. I'm probably gonna need to spend some serious time reevaluating that nest of crazy.

Quotes where you talk about your intent to think about things as opposed to actually thinking about things, on top of being LAMIST as fuck, are a huge scumtell.

Hmm. At what approximate point in the game did you learn their identity. And vice versa.

The answer to this is clearly visible in the game.
I feel like if he were -that- concerned about this issue that he would have carefully looked for this answer himself.

As far as Axel's alignment goes, I haven't the foggiest. That's pretty much the reason I asked you why you were voting him in 306, which I'd still like you to respond to, btw. I just feel that your overconfidence, hypocrisy, and dismissal of literally every other player you have to read is probably scum. I'm adding the tu quoque, loaded question, and fact you ignored me until I suspected you to the list of reasons your role pm is red as well, btw.

Showy and played up declaration that he doesn't know what alignment Axel is. To put it in one word it would again be LAMIST but that doesn't go to the heart of why it's scummy.
He's making a point of declaring himself uninformed. Also, calling them in an overblown manner overconfident hypocritical and dismissive of literally every other player again feels scummy.
Also, that final sentence is out of place and something I've seen from scum a lot: after all, why would he be telling his scumreads about the additions to the reasons that he scumreads them?

Like, I could understand this kind of paranoia from someone like mastina or thor on the outside, but there's 0 weight behind Xig's name here so there wouldn't be any reason to try to pocket him specifically.
I could understand the lying about reads if you thought it would catch scum, but here though it sounds like you know the result is gonna be mostly null.

I can't shake the feeling that this post comes from someone who knows who I am.
No, I know the current reaction was null: if they challenged my read and they flipped scum I would super heavily townread them. Certain types of discomfort would indicate scum.
It's fairly clear what I was aiming for and you're calling me scummy for the act of lying about my reads, but what exactly is scum!Xigbar's scum motivation to do this?

And that last line seems like a scum talking to someone they're afraid of catching them as town. Which ALSO doesn't make any sense, regardless of alignment, because there should be no way for Xig to know if Zex is good at catching them.

Seriously, wth was this?

I have so many fucking times made reference to my altguesses on different slots and this feels like you're trying to lock -no one knows anything- to help you push a narrative.
So from my point of view you've either not read anything this game or are just scum trying to get an angle to push me off of.

Which is it?

Hmm. At what approximate point in the game did you learn their identity. And vice versa.

Even this doesn't feel like an appropriate reaction. If he was so certain that no one could know anyone's names, he wouldn't so readily back down on it.

Seriously, wth was this?

This comes from scum the vast, vast majority of the time.

[II Xigbar]

VOTE: IV Vexen

[II Xigbar]

TL;DR IV Vexen just feels overblown as all hell, and trying way too hard to show that they're thinking and stuff and it feels like scum.
I also can't shake the feeling that they're trying too hard with the 'no one knows who anyone is!' crap because they are in scumchat and know who a few people are, myself included.
I don't think anyone's first impression is that someone trying to pocket x specifically is a stature thing as opposed to just being friends, but that feels like what someone who knows me would say.

Oh yeah that much is obvious but what I'm thinking about is the way your reads were thrown out. Think as scum you'd put more thought into that side of things.

Those are bold words coming from you. Are you saying you'll volunteer to take care of it if things go wrong? Huh?

[VII Saix]

Saix has a point in that we've all been fucking out for pretty much the entirety of the day; don't quite understand why he feels that slamming through a lynch now as opposed to better decreases our chances of mislynching somehow.

I wasn't suggesting lynching right away, but to create a consensus around it. The game had stalled and needed some shaking up.
There are 6 lynch contenders or even more, so it's gonna take us time to sort it out. Especially this day when we need 7 votes for L. 11 days seem a lot but will be gone swiftly.

[VII Saix]

Although, Saix, if you're so concerned about the looming deadline, why haven't you given an opinion on Xaldin yet?

Did you ask me about my opinion on them? I missed that. I will need to ISO them.

[VII Saix]

What's worrying is that you are not able to see how whatever you have wrote as a case on me
- is also wrong with Axel (in your words - "fluffposting, lack of effort, lazy posting, posting actively, certainty compared to evidence", etc.), and,
- is also wrong with you (if my vote on Axel is bad, so is your vote on me, coz there's nothing in that post and vote that you are seeking from me. In your words, "hypocrisy and lack of a cohesive case on someone".

What case on you? If saying your push on Axel is hot garbo amounts to a case now, than ms has reeeeally gone downhill.

1. Let's not drag MS's quality into it. It's immaterial right now.

As far as why that's probably scum coming from you over scum coming from Axel: You're saying it's likely to be scum. That, right there, is the rub. You clearly think the behavior that you as scum are doing is scummy. And you're trying to push a lynch through based on that behavior. It's not the fluffposting that I see as a problem.

2. How is your behaviour any different from mine, Vex?
You do not a hell lot on me and yet you voted for me. But for voting for me, you give a reason that I voted for someone on whom I didn't have much to begin with.
Do you see the contradiction now?

3. In your post 1, you vote for me and give a weak reason. Then I say something in response to that. In your post 2, instead of justifying your vote and weak reason you have on me from your post 1, you start talking about my response post, which has chronologically come after your vote. I would like to hear what made you vote for me in the first place, without using the crutches of the scumminess I display in my response post - which has come after you voted - to justify your vote. Scums do this very often. They project their suspicions on X, X says something in response to that, and the scum uses these subsequent response posts to justify their original suspicion. I won't let that happen to me this game.

As far as Axel's alignment goes, I haven't the foggiest. That's pretty much the reason I asked you why you were voting him in 306, which I'd still like you to respond to, btw. I just feel that your overconfidence, hypocrisy, and dismissal of literally every other player you have to read is probably scum. I'm adding the tu quoque, loaded question, and fact you ignored me until I suspected you to the list of reasons your role pm is red as well, btw.

4. If you don't have the foggiest, maybe you should ISO them and me and read our interactions. But just to give you a summary, I posted a wall of reads in which I mentioned Axel as scumlean, following which Axel erupted and omgused. Even after the repeated suggestion to him to improve his game, from me and from others, there wasn't much content in their posts. They are questioning and responding, but where are their reads about the game, except about their read on me, which has no content but just omgus kind of tone.

Yes, I do not have much on Axel right now, but it's all relative judgement anyway, especially on D1. Right now, even if I have less on Axel than necessary, it's the max I have on anyone, so I have gone ahead with my suspicions. I asked openly about deadline and lynching Axel coz I wanna know how much traction there is for that lynch. If not, I will need to focus on my second most suspicious person in the hierarchy.

5. My 'overconfidence, hypocrisy and dismissal of other players' are your perceptions. It doesn't matter what you think of me, but since we are playing a game and are hopefully on the same side, I just wanna say that you read me wrongly.

[IX Demyx]

???

I was the best man at Zexion's wedding. No shit they know who I am. No shit they would try to pocket me since we're super close friends IRL.

Why would it have to be due to notoriety?

Uhhh okay I don't know who Zexion is then oops.

[IV Vexen]

Spoiler: Episode II: The Wall Strikes Back

Huh. Iso-ing Xig for a Xal case, and while the early stuff is still towny, the last few posts have been all kinds of meh. 307 particularly seems like... garbage. Like the whole concept...

"I lied about my reads so I could see what you'd do. And if you were town you could still do the exact same thing as I think you might have done as scum, because I'm afraid you're trying to pocket me."

1) This is hugely misrepresenting what actually happened and the specific manner feels like scum trying to spin me as scummy.
The specific act of the quotation marks (specifically creating a narrative about what I was doing) is something bad scum do a lot to push scumreads, and is a huge scumtell.
2) I lied about a scumread to see how it would influence their read on the slot. It's a minor thing that has many potential reactions.
I think that that particular response is what they would do as scum. They also -might- do it as town. I think that there are other reactions that would clearly demarcate town or scum.

Oh... And now you think I'm bad scum. I feel really sad . I'm gonna go ahead and guarantee for you one thing. I'm not bad at scum. As town? Up for debate. But as scum I'm glorious.

As far as pushing a narrative goes, tell me exactly what is incorrect about what I quoted. That is my understanding of that post. If I'm wrong, tell me why. As far as the other end of things, please, enlighten me with some responses he could have made that would have been alignment indicative, if not for the only one he would have made if he were scum, but that he might have made as town anyway so it really didn't matter much.

Larxy and Lexy (who should really be masons with names like that) appear to have sheeped Xig. Whose reasoning amounted to not liking Xal's first three posts. Luxia, from context of 314-316 appears to be voting out of some weird concern for the deadline. Like, if Saix weren't making such wonderfully jiggly motions in response to my vote on him, I'd vote Luxia for those three. It's just so gross that it makes me want to stop eating for a couple of weeks. It's weird to me that a wagon so full of townreads can also look like such hot garbage. I'm probably gonna need to spend some serious time reevaluating that nest of crazy.

Quotes where you talk about your intent to think about things as opposed to actually thinking about things, on top of being LAMIST as fuck, are a huge scumtell.

Are they? See, for me they remind me to do things. As in, I'm going to do this later. So I don't forget and not follow up on something that could be important.

Hmm. At what approximate point in the game did you learn their identity. And vice versa.

The answer to this is clearly visible in the game.
I feel like if he were -that- concerned about this issue that he would have carefully looked for this answer himself.

Or... I could have you, who is clearly aware of exactly when it happened link it to me and save me a buttload of time. Time I then could use to look at the two wagons we have available and gag.

As far as Axel's alignment goes, I haven't the foggiest. That's pretty much the reason I asked you why you were voting him in 306, which I'd still like you to respond to, btw. I just feel that your overconfidence, hypocrisy, and dismissal of literally every other player you have to read is probably scum. I'm adding the tu quoque, loaded question, and fact you ignored me until I suspected you to the list of reasons your role pm is red as well, btw.

Showy and played up declaration that he doesn't know what alignment Axel is. To put it in one word it would again be LAMIST but that doesn't go to the heart of why it's scummy.
He's making a point of declaring himself uninformed. Also, calling them in an overblown manner overconfident hypocritical and dismissive of literally every other player again feels scummy.
Also, that final sentence is out of place and something I've seen from scum a lot: after all, why would he be telling his scumreads about the additions to the reasons that he scumreads them?

Oh, shit. You've found out I'm showy and theatrical. Next you'll talk about how I like to make jokes and annoy the moderator. It's like you know me!

Or perhaps the overblown manner was because the question itself was ridiculous. Saix was asking me why I was questioning his push on Axel like the only possible reason for me to question it was because I had a hard townread on Axel. That's a false premise, and one I met with gusto. As far as overconfident:

Who is opposed to Axel lynch and why?
This decision can't happen closer to the deadline. Scurrying for a legit lynch at the last moment will results in a mislynch.

Well, this is ridiculously overconfident. Especially given the lack of stated reasons for his read. Dismissive of the other players? Prior to my replacement, his most recent posts not exclusively about Axel were 185 which is a dismissal of the conftown and 156 where he criticizes a read of... Axel. Since my replace in, he's also interacted with me, who is actively scumreading him, and Luxia, who is actively engaging him. That's it. No one else.

Hypocrisy? 156, 263, 317. There's more, but honestly, you seem experienced enough to be able to click the ISO button.

Like, I could understand this kind of paranoia from someone like mastina or thor on the outside, but there's 0 weight behind Xig's name here so there wouldn't be any reason to try to pocket him specifically.
I could understand the lying about reads if you thought it would catch scum, but here though it sounds like you know the result is gonna be mostly null.

I can't shake the feeling that this post comes from someone who knows who I am.
No, I know the current reaction was null: if they challenged my read and they flipped scum I would super heavily townread them. Certain types of discomfort would indicate scum.
It's fairly clear what I was aiming for and you're calling me scummy for the act of lying about my reads, but what exactly is scum!Xigbar's scum motivation to do this?

Is it cause you're Thor? Cause I'm guessing at this point that you're Thor. Which would probably make Zex Reckoner, given that I can only remember one ms wedding and I'm pretty sure reck's best friends were Thor and Jiffy. And you ain't Jiffy. If you are thor, I'm very upset by the lack of neutral faces so far in this game and you're gonna have to step that up.

Also, you pretty much missed the entire point of that post. The point was that I didn't see a reason for either Xig to make that post. It was a super odd post. I'm going to double check the stated belief that Zex knew who you were and that you were aware of this knowledge, but it looks like paranoia that neither scum nor town Xig should have. Which would point at the interaction being forced or staged somehow.

And that last line seems like a scum talking to someone they're afraid of catching them as town. Which ALSO doesn't make any sense, regardless of alignment, because there should be no way for Xig to know if Zex is good at catching them.

Seriously, wth was this?

I have so many fucking times made reference to my altguesses on different slots and this feels like you're trying to lock -no one knows anything- to help you push a narrative.
So from my point of view you've either not read anything this game or are just scum trying to get an angle to push me off of.

Which is it?

Hey, I resent that. I've read almost some of the thread. I was at like page 11 when I stopped reading the first time, and I've read like five ISO's since then. Granted, looking for anything resembling a case, but I did look through them. I probably just ignored any guesses as to identities because of the whole "This is a secret alt game where we're not ALLOWED to out our identities." angle of things. It seems like a waste of time to me, a waste of threadspace, and a great distraction to scumhunting.

Hmm. At what approximate point in the game did you learn their identity. And vice versa.

Even this doesn't feel like an appropriate reaction. If he was so certain that no one could know anyone's names, he wouldn't so readily back down on it.

Cute. But humor me. Worst case I'm scum and you lynch me, thus the conversation is wasted time. Best case I'm town and I've caught scum, which I guess is still worst case for you, but you know, only if your alignment is scum.

Seriously, wth was this?

This comes from scum the vast, vast majority of the time.

Does it? Incredulity is scum now. Huh, whoda thunk. Well, now, onto more important and less inane things...

Without chancing modkills for revealing your identity, (Which you've managed to get particularly close to gray areas and I applaud the effort if it was intentional), Could you please tell me what particularly about 47 that shared a hidden identity with you? I'd rather you confirm with ANTTH that you can guess Zex's identity in thread without risking the Wrath of MOD, but that's a PM you'll have to send.

Zexy, could you please confirm for me that you believe Xig is someone who was best man at your wedding and tell me exactly what post and what about that post made you see the light so clearly? And if you wouldn't mind too terribly much, could you send that same PM to make sure you don't wind up dead when I ask you to tell me Xig's identity?

[IV Vexen]

Spoiler: Sorry, No Saix Nicknames

What's worrying is that you are not able to see how whatever you have wrote as a case on me
- is also wrong with Axel (in your words - "fluffposting, lack of effort, lazy posting, posting actively, certainty compared to evidence", etc.), and,
- is also wrong with you (if my vote on Axel is bad, so is your vote on me, coz there's nothing in that post and vote that you are seeking from me. In your words, "hypocrisy and lack of a cohesive case on someone".

What case on you? If saying your push on Axel is hot garbo amounts to a case now, than ms has reeeeally gone downhill.

1. Let's not drag MS's quality into it. It's immaterial right now.

Not when you're calling a duck an ostrich. For clarification though, I'm accusing you of lying about what I'm doing, not accusing ms of being a bad site.

As far as why that's probably scum coming from you over scum coming from Axel: You're saying it's likely to be scum. That, right there, is the rub. You clearly think the behavior that you as scum are doing is scummy. And you're trying to push a lynch through based on that behavior. It's not the fluffposting that I see as a problem.

2. How is your behaviour any different from mine, Vex?
You do not a hell lot on me and yet you voted for me. But for voting for me, you give a reason that I voted for someone on whom I didn't have much to begin with.
Do you see the contradiction now?

What? Voting someone =/= saying that we need to come to a lynch consensus and then demanding everyone take a stance on your scumread.

3. In your post 1, you vote for me and give a weak reason. Then I say something in response to that. In your post 2, instead of justifying your vote and weak reason you have on me from your post 1, you start talking about my response post, which has chronologically come after your vote. I would like to hear what made you vote for me in the first place, without using the crutches of the scumminess I display in my response post - which has come after you voted - to justify your vote.

Scums do this very often

. They project their suspicions on X, X says something in response to that, and the scum uses these subsequent response posts to justify their original suspicion. I won't let that happen to me this game.

In my post 2 I vote you for a weak reason. In my post one, I say that your most recent post is yucky and ask for cases on the two wagons which have attracted two people or more. And yes, in my post 2 my vote was more because I thought you needed the pressure than because I thought you were scum. The fact that your responses were incredibly scummy, and that needed to be pointed out, says fuck all about my alignment. It does say a lot about yours, however. Since I've replaced in, everything you have said has convinced me you were scum.

As far as Axel's alignment goes, I haven't the foggiest. That's pretty much the reason I asked you why you were voting him in 306, which I'd still like you to respond to, btw. I just feel that your overconfidence, hypocrisy, and dismissal of literally every other player you have to read is probably scum. I'm adding the tu quoque, loaded question, and fact you ignored me until I suspected you to the list of reasons your role pm is red as well, btw.

4. If you don't have the foggiest, maybe you should ISO them and me and read our interactions. But just to give you a summary, I posted a wall of reads in which I mentioned Axel as scumlean, following which Axel erupted and omgused. Even after the repeated suggestion to him to improve his game, from me and from others, there wasn't much content in their posts. They are questioning and responding, but where are their reads about the game, except about their read on me, which has no content but just omgus kind of tone.

Or maybe I should ask the people who are townreading them and scumreading them why instead of relying on stale information that I can't really connect with. Like I've been doing. And you've been ignoring. Since I replaced in. What particular posts do you find scummy from Axel? Not he's been fluffposting. Which posts are fluff and why is that scum? Which posts avoid taking a stance? Why was his eruption and OMGUS scummy?

Yes, I do not have much on Axel right now, but it's all relative judgement anyway, especially on D1. Right now, even if I have less on Axel than necessary, it's the max I have on anyone, so I have gone ahead with my suspicions. I asked openly about deadline and lynching Axel coz I wanna know how much traction there is for that lynch. If not, I will need to focus on my second most suspicious person in the hierarchy.

5. My 'overconfidence, hypocrisy and dismissal of other players' are your perceptions. It doesn't matter what you think of me, but since we are playing a game and are

hopefully on the same side

, I just wanna say that you read me wrongly.

Cool story. I especially love the part where you say I'm probably scum and then say we hopefully have the same alignment in the same post. It's so beautiful it hurts. (Bolded for emphasis)

If you want to change my read on you, then you should probably try to engage the thread and find scum. Why haven't you talked to anyone but me and Luxia all day, for example?

I will note, however, that you just spent more effort defending yourself to one of two people voting you than you have in getting your 'scumread' lynched since I've joined the game.

[IV Vexen]

And... Xemnas ISO also lacks a Axel case, just saying his contributions are lacking.

I'm just gonna go cry. Alone. In a corner.

[VII Saix]

Vexen, wanna confirm that I have read your post. I would have replied back, but I don't think this is gonna go anywhere. We are not only on different pages, we are in different books. You go look for your story, and I will look for mine.

Your slot was already on my scum lean list, and it's only gone up by your recent burst of excitement.

[Heartless]

Vote Count 1.8

Vexen [2] - Demyx, Xigbar
Saïx [3] - Axel, Lexaeus, Vexen
Xaldin [3] - Larxene, Roxas, Marluxia
Axel [2] - Xemnas, Saïx
Demyx [1] - Zexion

Not Voting: Xaldin, Luxord

Xaldin has been prodded.

7 to lynch
Deadline: (expired on 2017-08-31 18:46:21).[/color]

[VII Saix]

[Heartless]

Every time I look at the thread and realize I have to prod someone:

Prodding Xemnas.

[X Luxord]

Getting out of work in a few hours and will post full catch up stay tuned.

[IV Vexen]

Fine Saix. Still gonna need you to respond to my question about why Axel is scum, though.

[VI Zexion]

This game is a steaming pile of shit. Probably going to replace out.

If you are town Xigbar I have 0 respect for you in this game after that horseshit. I do nothing but engage with you an honest way and just because my reads align with yours and I'm willing to follow you on a read of yours that I don't understand I'm trying to pocket you??? And you were ~faking reads~ to try to ~bait me~? Fuck off dude. My reads are my own. Don't bring out of game stuff into the game to try to reveal anyone's identity, that's flagrantly in violation of the spirit of alted games. Your Vexen case is rubbish, you'll find scum in a nunnery with the way you're approaching the game.

Zero fucking clue how anyone has even a whisper of a townread on Axel here.

[III Xaldin]

prod taken

[III Xaldin]

Gotta love people just following xigbars no case on me and voting there, only for him to come and say that he is bsing reads, you know like I suspected he was doing when I called him out on his reads being fake.

Vote:Xigibar

Can we lynch traitors now.

This whole thing reeks of people now finally questioning him about his nothing stuff and he is trying to twist it into some I faked reads for weird reactions test for pocketing based on meta I thought I had.

Yea ok

[X Luxord]

Gotta love people just following xigbars no case on me and voting there, only for him to come and say that he is bsing reads, you know like I suspected he was doing when I called him out on his reads being fake.

Vote:Xigibar

Can we lynch traitors now.

This whole thing reeks of people now finally questioning him about his nothing stuff and he is trying to twist it into some I faked reads for weird reactions test for pocketing based on meta I thought I had.

Yea ok

Strongly disliking this reaction feels like upset scum caught for the wrong reasons.

[X Luxord]

VOTE: Xigbar

Simply put, I don't think enough people have posted enough significant content for you to know half the game's identities. I know I'm probably pretty obvious, and I think I'd know Roxas if I'd played with them a few times.

However, the scumteam

Pretty much, yeah.

Without actually revealing the mains, who do you think you know?

The first few pages are quite... puzzling and now we seem to get into this little bit about knowing alts and that only scum can guess this it feels like a huge reach to me. Xig to me screams ego town that is going to get mislynched at this point I'm still catching up but I'm shaking my head at half this thread

[Heartless]

Roxas, Larxene, and Axel have been prodded.

People, you're making Donald angry.


You don't want him angry. When he gets angry, he "forgets" to heal you when you're about to die...