Mini 1939 - Organization XIII (Game Over)

[VI Zexion]

and roxas, almost forgot
if we just lynch (axel, marluxia and roxas) in any order we should win right, since we have 2 mislynches

[VI Zexion]

axel is a night skipper so if we think that role is scum we can lynch him

[X Luxord]

I mean I think if you can accurately claim a result on Marluxia today or Roxas tomorrow you're kind of cleared?
Logic being that Vexen's role was literally also a rolecop variant and with Xaldin's role, a scumteam with all three of your roles would be overkill.

I still think Marluxia is probably town.
If you think their role looks sketchy then can maybe reassess but I feel like Axel is just right for last scum and would trample enough on the toes of his scummates that I could believe that scumteam.

[VI Zexion]

i have no idea what their role does based on the name
i think we should atleast make marluxia claim today

[VI Zexion]

i'm also questioning if town would get 2 neighborizers
i feel like scum would get one and night skipper doesn't actually make sense for scum imo
this might be me being paranoid but

[X Luxord]

You might be being paranoid.
By all means look into the clusterfuck that is my ISO if you want a reassurance of me being town. I really doubt I could fake what I've done this game as scum lol.

Why does night skipper not make sense for scum with two really strong roles?

[VI Zexion]

i guess
i was just thinking why would scum want to skip their own nightkill

[X Luxord]

For towncred?

[VI Zexion]

you kinda contradicted yourself there
first you say night skipper is a scum role
then you say scum would nightskip for towncred

[VII Saix]

axel is a night skipper so if we think that role is scum we can lynch him

And nothing else? That's likely town

[X Luxord]

I said that nightskipper makes sense with context of the other two roles being really strong informational roles that gets their feet stepped on by it.
Scum has to choose whether to use the nightskip for towncred and neutering the strength of their other two roles.
Or if they don't they risk being rolecopped or later having to fakeclaim something to explain why they didn't use said role.

P-Edit: Fucking jesus christ guys read Axel's ISO.

[VII Saix]

So the news is that it's not a real cop :///

[VII Saix]

i'm also questioning if town would get 2 neighborizers
i feel like scum would get one and night skipper doesn't actually make sense for scum imo
this might be me being paranoid but

Eh. I think its OK for there to be two town neighbor things. Neighbors don't even do anything anyway.

[VII Saix]

I need to look at the other scumflips. If you can tell from role names that xaldin was a ninja for example. Bc both scum have had secondary things they didn't want to claim.

I think scum needs more than a borderline negative utility role to make this pan out. Now if he was say also a day skipper well...

[VI Zexion]

my rolecop says just night skipper so...
marluxia should claim me thinks

[VII Saix]

Zexs best utility then is obviously that it gets a guilty on xaldin.

And vex wouldve had some explaining to do.

[XI Marluxia]

Vote: Axel

I'm willing to claim, but think that it only makes sense for Zexion to claim his result first.

[VI Zexion]

thing is my result doesn't actually tell me anything about your role
i'm sure you'll agree right

for example, if you were a data collector, how am i supposed to know what that is (example obviously but your name is along those lines)
you could also just claim it to me in the neighborhood if you want.

[XIII Roxas]

(I'm kind of like.. 50/50 on whether Roxas is fakeclaiming regardless of whether they're town or scum. Lol)

Contrary to popular opinion of me, I do not in fact fakeclaim. ESPECIALLY not as scum. My guiding principle as scum is "the best lie is the truth". I do in fact

gambit

as town. But these gambits are logical extensions of my role. I'll make the Macho<->BP switch. (But, not this game. I am not in fact Macho. I am a conditional bulletproof who thanks to not being on either scum's death has lost the ability to become BP.) I'll

mislead

. I'll misdirect. I'll hide facts about my role and imply it's something else. But I never fakeclaim except for obvious stuff where when the fakeclaim is revealed as a fakeclaim, you know

exactly

why I did so: self-evident things where my role in of itself gives the explanation necessary for you to know why I did it.

If someone needs to explain their motives behind a fakeclaim, then it's a poorly-executed fakeclaim. Mine are never like that because mine are always something which you can figure out the motive for simply by seeing them in action. In the case of this game, however, I didn't fakeclaim. I

held back

details of my claim, e.g. hiding I was a double-voter, that I was a bulletproof. But the town needed to know that I was a potential killstopper in that we had a lot of killstopping claims on the board (Xigbar, Lexaeus, Vexen, Axel, myself), too many for me to believe them all to be town.

Lies which cause town to setup spec incorrectly and potentially mislynch power roles are Very Bad Ideas. I would never stoop to that level of play, thankyouverymuch. The potential-BP is real. It'll never come to fruition, but it's in my role and if I ever die before the end of the game or when the game does end once Heartless posts the role PMs you'll see it for yourself.

I don't fucking fakeclaim and anyone who thinks I do doesn't know me at all.

[XIII Roxas]

roxas - conditional doublevoter bulletproof

Also technically. My role isn't conditional doublevoter bulletproof. It's "X-shot doublevoter, Conditional Bulletproof".
Okay. So more technically than that. It's "Dual Keyblade-Wielding Conditional Bulletproof". With two separate actions: Give Me Strength (X-shot doublevoter), and some quote about the keyblade choosing him, which is the name of the Conditional Bulletproof ability.

Wording's important there, because the doublevote isn't conditional (well aside from the no-using-in-mylo/lylo clause); the bulletproof isn't X-shot. The two modifiers are entirely separate from one another.

[X Luxord]

"I don't fakeclaim unless it's masons".

[X Luxord]

You could do me a favor and vote Axel instead of agonizing over your claiming history when it doesn't matter at all.

[XIII Roxas]

I can see a Xaldin scumflip being used to sell a lynch on me, accompanied by claims that I just had to go for a gambit like that because I was so desperate.

I would like to say on the record btw: I'd love to say I'm not that crazy/stupid/insane/etc. And for the

most

part. That's true. I am in fact considering it pretty damn unlikely that you as a scum 1x vig (or any scum role which can cause the death of Xaldin) use the shot to off Xaldin.

I cannot afford, however, to altogether out-of-the-gate completely and entirely discard the possibility as something which fundamentally could not happen. I need to look into it. It's

unlikely

. It's incredibly unlikely. But I'll be damned if I let a scum gambit let a player who has been scummy the whole game get cleared when they shouldn't be.

...I'm probably not explaining this well. I'm trying to find the right words to explain this, but basically.
I don't think you're scum right now.
But I don't think you're scum to such strength where I am altogether completely and entirely writing you off.
And before any lynch today, I need to be. If you're scum I absolutely won't forgive myself for letting you get away with a role-based gambit. If you're town I need to know it for sure, to have the confidence in that call such that I am okay with losing to a scum-you were I wrong.

In short right now I need to reread. I'm a bit short on time at the moment (I'm doing half a dozen different things right now), so it can't happen tonight, but I absolutely think that this is a point where we can lock the game down in a guaranteed town win and I just need the time to figure out the best path for that, who to place absolute faith in being town.

Basically we've got seven alive and one scum left, so. I need three locktown reads. Three townreads where they absolutely cannot be scum. That's it. (I mean, more would obviously not be a bad thing, but I only really NEED three. Three's the minimum, not the maximum.) I need to do the research to see who those would be. Initial thoughts would be Luxord and Saix as two, but I'm not at the point yet where they are locktown-beyond-all-doubt and even if they were I'd need one extra for that point. I need to reread the whole game and I don't quite have the time to do that yet.

[XIII Roxas]

I think Roxas should have townread Demyx 1.0 as town.

That would be easier if I actually fucking knew who Demyx 1.0 was. I still don't know who they are. People have told me I should, they keep on rambling on and on about it and yet I keep on ranting on and on about it that I don't fucking know who they were even though I am perfectly aware I SHOULD have known who they were. They're someone I know, and know WELL. But I don't know

who

, specifically. Just that they know me.

[XIII Roxas]

Xigbar is very likely town.
Hopefully we won't need to be stupid and lynch me now.

Oh, derp. I forgot about Xigbar being in the game. That'd honestly be SO fucking convenient, if I could just go locktowns as Xigbar/Saix/Luxord. So most likely, yes. No stupid lynch on you. I have no plans to participate in something like that right now. I still need to review the thread! But honestly even without the vig shot in account your posting today is like a whole different animal in levels of townness it's giving off. (I wish I could explain exactly what I mean there but basically. You looked like scum by play and role yesterday, today you look town by both play and role, which is a very good sign.)

Worth mentioning, of course: I am not against mislynching me, but that comes with a caveat: if you want to pursue that path, it's a necessity for you to allow me to find a fourth town name in addition to the other three. And then for you to promise me you don't fucking ignore my reads and mislynch the player(s) I told you were locktown.