Mini 1962: Magical Girls Mafia II (Day 4)


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Post Post #2150 (ISO) » Sat Dec 23, 2017 3:05 pm

Post by mastina »

In post 2149, HolySpiritTurtle wrote:Re: Doc and strongman, you can basically consider the doctor the ability that only works after the strongman dies, like enable/disable mechanic without actually using those mechanics.
Because enabler role sucks.
A mafia doctor enabler would be far more balanced than strongman and also more NAI. If you had turned the strongman into a doctor enabler, BAM. Problem solved right then and there. The doctor works until one specific scum player dies.

This is FAR better design than the inverse--the doctor NOT working until one specific scum player dies.

One is more likely to happen than the other, ESPECIALLY with scum protecting players.
Scum are more inclined to protect a strongman; scum are more inclined to let a doctor enabler die.

Also it's not like them having a doctor enabler tells them there's a doctor any less than the strongman already did.
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Post Post #2151 (ISO) » Sat Dec 23, 2017 4:14 pm

Post by Alisae »

Maki was obvscum from her first post I don't know what ywall were talking about :roll:
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Post Post #2152 (ISO) » Sat Dec 23, 2017 4:16 pm

Post by Alisae »

Tho obvs me and bee didn't care to push it
When is the scum PT being released again?
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Post Post #2153 (ISO) » Sat Dec 23, 2017 4:19 pm

Post by Alisae »

but seriously mastina I dunno how you didn't scumread that shit and push it their push on our bp fakeclaim was basicly a scumclaim and only me and bee being the ones to push it makes me think how much attention were you really paying attention to in For Us.
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Post Post #2154 (ISO) » Sat Dec 23, 2017 4:24 pm

Post by mastina »

In post 2153, Alisae wrote:but seriously mastina I dunno how you didn't scumread that shit and push it their push on our bp fakeclaim was basicly a scumclaim and only me and bee being the ones to push it makes me think how much attention were you really paying attention to in For Us.
I did say at the time that if I had a townread wrong it was Maki. I did agree with many of your points.

But you had stopped pushing her before the day's end. And Maki continued to do things which made me not want her head.
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Post Post #2155 (ISO) » Sat Dec 23, 2017 4:26 pm

Post by Alisae »

Yeah me and Bee just didn't care and bee was getting distracted since I was mostly letting him drive.
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Post Post #2156 (ISO) » Sat Dec 23, 2017 4:28 pm

Post by Alisaes French Maid »

I should find the rage messages i sent Ali saying Maki was playing the 1v1 to get TR and i was really tilted it was working.
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Post Post #2157 (ISO) » Sat Dec 23, 2017 4:28 pm

Post by Alisaes French Maid »

In post 2155, Alisae wrote:Yeah me and Bee just didn't care and bee was getting distracted since I was mostly letting him drive.
You told me to post sheep facts and or was hilarious.
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Post Post #2158 (ISO) » Sat Dec 23, 2017 4:28 pm

Post by Alisaes French Maid »

And i thought it was hilarious*
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Post Post #2159 (ISO) » Sat Dec 23, 2017 4:30 pm

Post by Alisaes French Maid »

I have 0 regrets posting sheep facts. 11/10 would do again
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Post Post #2160 (ISO) » Sat Dec 23, 2017 4:31 pm

Post by Alisaes French Maid »

Maki's "i am not sorry at all I am scum" post after the Kaito lynch was the best part of this game btw
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Post Post #2161 (ISO) » Sat Dec 23, 2017 8:27 pm

Post by Ellibereth »

In post 2148, mastina wrote:
In post 2146, Ellibereth wrote:Only skimmed but I think i've have a 100% nhood readrate over a nontrivial samplesize so i'll politely disagree for now
You are also a Paragon nominee.

I'm telling you that us town plebeians can't do that shit.

Yeah
, I am the poster child for the mason gambit, claiming neighborhoods are masonries. Yeah, my success rate so far is disproportionately high. However, I'd be the first to admit. My "masonries" being so? Purely luck of the draw. Not skill. I don't have a magical, mystical, reads-my-neighborhood-correctly, skill. I just treat them as if they're town and most of the time because statistically speaking players are more likely to be town I end up being right.

My neighborhood accuracy reading-wise rate would in fact be exactly what you'd expect it to be. 60-80%, leaning more towards 75%. 3/4ths of the time townreading them I'm right, but sometimes I am disastrously wrong. If I tried to actually read my neighborhoods rather than just assuming they were town. I would encounter trouble every single time. Because I CANNOT read them nor should anyone claim they can.

Yeah
, there are certain neighborhoods where you can read the people just fine. If I got a neighborhood with Ginngie, fuck yes I'd be able to tell she was town or scum from it. But if you're paired with some random scummer, as I was this game? NOPE. Noooooooot a clue. We figured it out EVENTUALLY, but it took in-thread posting for us to do so because we don't have that close connection with them.
My point is that it's easier to read ppl you're in a nhood with than ones you're JUST in the game thread with just because you're able to try more stuff. I think you agree with that?

I find all-town nhoods VERY scary as scum because it's really hard for us to manipulate what's going on in them. It's not like a neighborizer where they have to choose a player, there's just a bunch of players in their own universe who are able to do godknowswhat that we have no influence over.

So yeah, I think their being two all-town neighborhoods is certainly something that helps town a lot and their existence is the main reason why we felt poe'd at some point. Balance-wise it certainly wasn't net zero. Imagine if the nhoods just didn't exist. This would have been more onesided.
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Post Post #2162 (ISO) » Sat Dec 23, 2017 8:33 pm

Post by Alisae »

I don't take hood spec into consideration when balancing things.
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Post Post #2163 (ISO) » Sat Dec 23, 2017 8:37 pm

Post by Ellibereth »

Lolu

"balancing things"

But honestly I think that's a mistake.
I don't know how to count mixed alignment ones.
But from experience it's realllly easy to figure out when a hood is all town and it's creating a scum-free space that intrisically-exists even if the players don't know it from the get-go
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Post Post #2164 (ISO) » Sat Dec 23, 2017 8:40 pm

Post by PJ. »

Mastina salty as fuck for someone that was either actively hurting their alignment or not posting the entirety of the game.
Sometimes a sandwich is just a sandwich.
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Post Post #2165 (ISO) » Sat Dec 23, 2017 8:41 pm

Post by Alisae »

Like hoods just depend on who is in them to make the most of them.
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Post Post #2166 (ISO) » Sat Dec 23, 2017 8:41 pm

Post by Alisae »

Also lol hi panzer
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Post Post #2167 (ISO) » Sat Dec 23, 2017 8:43 pm

Post by Toranaga »

wp wolves

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Post Post #2168 (ISO) » Sat Dec 23, 2017 8:44 pm

Post by Alisae »

Lolufo
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Post Post #2169 (ISO) » Sat Dec 23, 2017 8:59 pm

Post by mastina »

In post 2161, Ellibereth wrote:[My point is that it's easier to read ppl you're in a nhood with than ones you're JUST in the game thread with just because you're able to try more stuff. I think you agree with that?
As a matter of fact?

No, I don't. I disagree. It is ONLY easier to read the person in the neighborhood if it is someone you hold a degree of intimate familiarity with--otherwise, the neighborhood makes sorting their alignment genuinely
harder
, rather than easier. (That's one of the motivating factors behind my mason gambit, in fact: I would just rather assume town than put in the effort of sorting the player because I find it difficult to impossible to sort the player.)
I find all-town nhoods VERY scary as scum because it's really hard for us to manipulate what's going on in them.
And I am telling you that your fear of them is unjustified and was showing a lack of creativity as scum. You can't manipulate what's going on in them, sure, but you can manipulate what's going on outside of them--including by suggesting there is manipulation going on inside of them (i.e. that scum have used the neighborhood).

They are not scary. LEAST of all when the existence of both is established from the onset of the game.

You are blaming something that doesn't exist. Neighborhood bias was absent this game. I repeat. I did not townread Chara or Hardcore Monkey for their neighborhood posting. It was for their posting in-thread. I did not townread Almost50 because he was in a neighborhood. I townread him for his and his slot's play. The main fucking reason I was suspicious of Kokichi and Kaito? The reasons given for townreading the two of them were stated to be neighborhood posting rather than in-thread actions.
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Post Post #2170 (ISO) » Sat Dec 23, 2017 9:02 pm

Post by mastina »

In post 2162, Alisae wrote:I don't take hood spec into consideration when balancing things.
Exactly.
Neither does the NRG.
And neither does any competent mod assume an all-town neighborhood is +EV for the town.

Because me? The mastina school of thought? That is, treat-neighborhoods-as-masonries?
...Is the
exception
to the general town rule.
Which is.
"I don't know your alignment because I am town and a neighbor".
And thus.
Neighbors are treated if anything with GREATER suspicion. They are NAI balance-wise. They do not make for town strength. Quite the opposite. They are often a source of scum strength.
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Post Post #2171 (ISO) » Sat Dec 23, 2017 9:03 pm

Post by Ellibereth »

No, I don't. I disagree. It is ONLY easier to read the person in the neighborhood if it is someone you hold a degree of intimate familiarity with--otherwise, the neighborhood makes sorting their alignment genuinely harder, rather than easier. (That's one of the motivating factors behind my mason gambit, in fact: I would just rather assume town than put in the effort of sorting the player because I find it difficult to impossible to sort the player.)
ehh, I think you're doing it wrong then.
We can talk about this more out of thread if you want but that's a pretty big fundamental disagreement so.
Neighborhood bias was absent this game. I repeat.
I HIGHLY doubt that for the neighborhood that you weren't in and I certainly don't think they're suspicious for it.
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Post Post #2172 (ISO) » Sat Dec 23, 2017 9:05 pm

Post by Ellibereth »

idk if you remember but back in the day I took neighborizer everytime I could in PYP or anything similar because I basically think of it as a delayed cop + masonizer if they're town.
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Post Post #2173 (ISO) » Sat Dec 23, 2017 9:06 pm

Post by mastina »

In post 2165, Alisae wrote:Like hoods just depend on who is in them to make the most of them.
Exactly. Which...is not something you can build a setup around. It is not something you can anticipate in advance. It is not a fucking thing. Which you can call mechanics, which you can call the setup. Because it is the fucking PLAYERS who make the difference. And thus it is the fucking PLAY which makes the neighborhood hold meaning.

Thus.

Balance-wise.
Neighborhoods are net-neutral power-wise.

This is the stance of competent moderators across the site.
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Post Post #2174 (ISO) » Sat Dec 23, 2017 9:08 pm

Post by Ellibereth »

I mean you only think they're net neutral because you don't think it makes it signifigantly easier to read people. That's where our core disagreement lies.
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