Mini 2014: Succinct Mafia (Over)

[MathBlade]

Deal. I don't town read him either

VOTE: HavingFitz

Ewwww stop listening to scum.

V/LA til Tuesday with word of warning it will likely be high as a kite

[Hiraki]

Yeah, I think that's much more of a stretch than literally all of Eevee's posts being pretty dodgy and just putting stuff out there. For example:

If i voted for someone it would probably be havingfitz cause his only post is a rvs with nothing really about it

Is a terrible reason considering that:

Man why does this thread already have three pages game just started! :@


Mmmm

VOTE: wisdom

And

Maybe now and then.

Let's play! While following rules. I need learn a way to read you since this setting will cause a drastic change to your play.

I don't like. Your push on AA. She is and always had been someone easy to mislynch but I'm not sure of pines comment. It certainly isn't SvS

Were his only posts at the time. As well as the fact that there is nothing scummy to what havingfitz said. I ignored most of Eevee's early posting because I had bigger fish to fry but apparently those will be for later days. Eevee's posting has been dodgy at absolute best and contradictory at worst. I'm procrastinating right now so you best know I'm gonna put my best foot forward.

Eevee emulates Wisdomscum here where he asks a lot of questions and then never follows up on them. For example:

Hiraki did you ever say why arc v wisdom might be S v S?

Hiraki did you ever say why arc v wisdom might be S v S?

Mostly because I'm SRing both of them. SvS is a stretch due to the way Arc handled it but plausible.

Which never got followed up on. It seems pretty weird to ask this question if it has no affect on Eevee's reads.

Here are few of the same scenarios:

Kokichi so you're deadset on wisdom?

Mathblade whats pines scummeta than?

This one is the most fruitful one of these questions because two posts later:

VOTE: Pine i honestly believe this is more than likely scum.

I have substantial doubts (even if a scumlean on Pine atm) that Eevee read anything about Pine here. There's no reason for the question to be asked if you're not going to use its information.

Furthermore, Eevee asks this:

Am i the only one that thinks pine is scum ?

Which gets even WORSE when combined with this quote:

You never know when a single vote can spread into a full hammer. I have it on who i think is scummiest. Just cause I'm off the main lynches doesn't mean its a valueless lynch

1) You've already admitted that your wagon is dead with the first vote.
2) No, a signle vote can't spread into a full hammer. 1 vote isn't 7.
3) Yes, it does mean you're on a valueless lynch because you're not getting a lynch on Pine today. Just facts. Do you need me to quote you where you admit that other people might find Pine not OK?

Upon an ISO Eevee looks a lot worse then I previously thought. A ton of fluff and waffling.

I'm sorry I didn't pay attention to this before.

Some other things I want to bring to light:

Deal. I don't town read him either

VOTE: HavingFitz

1) Look at this buddy motion.
2)

I played with Fitz in a game where he was a town and later turned into scum. He is an extremely competitive player. Unlike me, he is not very transparent. He usually has good logic in his post regardless of his alignment. What concerns me about him that i didn't feel him as persuasive he gets when he is town but this little too early to judge him on this. I got a future-leaning scum read on him.

Arc made up his mind on Fitz by post 261. Anyone on this wagon is now liable knowing that there is a literal scumclaim by Arc that she already had a scumread on fitz before he flips.

[SirCakez]

Hey guys I've been really busy with work sorry. Will be here tomorrow morning! Sorry I'm just exhausted.

[Kokichi Oma]

Can you show me meta of fuzzy being lynch bait in the past. Cause I've seen Eevee straight up post awful posts and she was town then.

[SirCakez]

Last time I played with eevee shes was easy lynchbait for scum. Want more time to analyze her. Lynch fuzzy

Someone already pointed this out but yeah Fuzzy looks to be even moreso lynchbait then Eeevee, so this post sucks.

You never know when a single vote can spread into a full hammer. I have it on who i think is scummiest. Just cause I'm off the main lynches doesn't mean its a valueless lynch

Also this is bad logic too. Especially when we need to get the game moving badly.

Honestly not seeing much to comment on. People still want deadline, people are having petty fights, etc. Wheels are spinning in mud.

Re: Fuzzy's lynchbaiti-ness: I randomly picked a game from his history and found this: viewtopic.php?f=23&t=75044
where his posting style is pretty much exactly the same as here and he was town. Only difference was activity level.

[MathBlade]

viewtopic.php?p=9949534#p9949534

It actually isn’t.

He takes an opinion on the joke? From Hopkins user.

He also remains consistent in the opinions Fuzzy shares.

Here Fuzzy has no opinions and is inconsistent.

[LuckyOtter]

I'm learning to accept different playstyles. I get that not everyone, including town, wants to be super active D1 or maybe ever. I see the value in posting less to make a greater impact. This is one of the reasons I've backed off of Eevee--I can see some participation, some poking and prodding, that looks like it's going somewhere (whether it is actually accomplishing anything or just trying to look busy is something as Hiraki argues is worth considering. I don't have as much time as I'd hoped this morning to be able to fully digest this).

I don't see Fuzzy doing that here. I can see Fuzzy doing at least a minimum of poking and prodding in other games as town. His play here is different

I also don't accept that he would necessarily play "better" as scum. Clearly there is a site-wide meta that rewards lurking D1, so if I were on a scumteam with Fuzzy I would absolutely not want him to change his playstyle. I'd tell him to do his thing. Which he seems to have ran with to an extreme.

[Wisdom]

fitz needs more votes
fuzzy voters need to be ignored and/or lynched

[TheFuzzylogic99]

those games I did not have to worry about post limits and things like that...... This game I am limited to the amount of stupid things I can say......


Its hard to believe that Math is misreading this badly. Either he is tunneling me like crazy or he scum trying to push my lynch. Either one seems likely at this point. What has me leaning scum is his potato comment. Its pretty obvious I post that in RVS every stupid game and they have zero irreverence to this game. The comment felt more than forced

Otter
can you give your experience with mafia. Thanks

Okay so I need to go over the Fritz ISO I guess........

[TheFuzzylogic99]

Nor did my potato comment have any thing to do with my role in those games.

[Momrangal]

Titus: not offended, just highly frustrated and maybe a little put off. You sit there, and act like you're read is superior to everyone else's and despite me saying I know wisdom better than you do and I am town leaning him here feels both a little like you aren't here to work with anyone else and want everyone to follow your lead. I'm saying your sister has these same tendencies and it's making it hard to try and make for a cohesive town.

Further more, you are making blanket statements that scum are trying to discredit you by saying you are using moonlogic (despite it being a well known fact that it's what everyone thinks) and town is not and agreeing with you.

Not only is that fallacious and presumptive but you aren't taking all factors into consideration and you're acting like flips already occurred.

You're also so convinced of your scum team you're not taking the bad associatives between wisdom and fuzzy into consideration which feels like you're beyond reason.

Hiraki: first off. I. AM. A. GIRL. MOM IS LITERALLY IN MY NAME.

second, I am not Fitz.

Also what do my posts have to do with what Fitz had posted and evees reasoning to wanting to vote him?

[EeveeLution Army]

Fuzzy you knew of these restrictions when you joined :/

[Wisdom]

i knew them too, doesnt make it any easier

[LuckyOtter]

Fuzzy, I played a long time ago, like nearly ten years. Long enough that I don't remember a lot about my strategy or approach.

The posting limit has absolutely nothing to do with your performance here. The potato thing is by far the least important thing that's been mentioned. This feels like serious deflection.

[MathBlade]

1) First I am sorry if it feels like I am not listening. This is not my intent. I can’t speak for Titus, but as for myself, it’s pretty much in my background and a bit of survivalistic to be stubborn. The way I learned how to “prove” something is you make a hypothesis:
My hypothesis right now is that in order of likelihood Fuzzy Wisdom and Otter are scum.

2) Then from making that hypothesis you bring points supporting that hypothesis.
In this case, Fuzzy’s meta, contradictions, and lack of hunting lead me to believe he is scum.
For Wisdom’s case, he does not seem to apply standards to all players equally and is seemingly let bad play go which is not standard for Town!Wisdom and based on my experience with Wisdom that is what he does as scum.

3) Anyone who wishes to change my read must counter the given points, either mechanically or address those points. Or they have to bring MORE points that make him town. An equal number of points would make him null.

Let’s take a look at what you have said regarding Wisdom. You have more experience.
Assuming this as true, then please show me where Wisdom allows bad play from town and that player is town.
Show me where Wisdom has this similar play as town.
Experience ALONE isn’t enough. It’s like 5 years doing coding versus 20. At some point both know what a variable is and then you get down into the nuts and bolts. I am not discounting your experience. I want you to talk about it.

The associatives between Wisdom and Fuzzy — What associatives do you refer to? What it looks like to me is the associatives paint them together as scum. Please go into detail.

[Wisdom]

this is so wrong

[MathBlade]

That is how the real world works.

If I bring a solution to my colleagues to a coding problem:
They either A> Agree that it is good
Or B> Demonstrate the flaws in it.

That’s how the world works.

For example if someone said I am scum because

I know I am not based on my role PM but that isn’t evidence that everyone can see. Then I have to dismantle the points made that I am scum, or the prevailing idea should be that I am scum if I cannot.

It’s the same way in the scientific community. If you have a theory that the earth is flat. You have to counter all the evidence that the earth is 3 dimensional (namely the fact we have day and night, boats and airplanes travel at a curvature, photos from space to name a few) if you don’t discount those things and say “I have had more experience than you on this earth listen to me” the experience itself is fundamentally irrelevant. It is what the experience brings to the table that matters.

[Hiraki]

second, I am not Fitz.

Also what do my posts have to do with what Fitz had posted and evees reasoning to wanting to vote him?

Maybe you should read the post again before thinking that I'm accusing you of doing anything.

[Wisdom]

no because mara doesnt have to convince you youre wrong
You are bad and youll find something else to be loudly wrong about

[LuckyOtter]

I ignored most of Eevee's early posting because I had bigger fish to fry but apparently those will be for later days. Eevee's posting has been dodgy at absolute best and contradictory at worst. I'm procrastinating right now so you best know I'm gonna put my best foot forward.

I feel like this is exactly how scum are encouraged to be lurky D1. Most people ignore them, and anyone who does try to go after them gets shot down and scumread themselves. Why would scum put in any more effort? It's a pretty sweet deal.

"X's posting has been dodgy at best and contradictory at worst" is pretty much exactly what I've been trying to say about Fuzzy. I don't see why you won't see that.

Am i the only one that thinks pine is scum ?

Which gets even WORSE when combined with this quote:

You never know when a single vote can spread into a full hammer. I have it on who i think is scummiest. Just cause I'm off the main lynches doesn't mean its a valueless lynch

1) You've already admitted that your wagon is dead with the first vote.
2) No, a signle vote can't spread into a full hammer. 1 vote isn't 7.
3) Yes, it does mean you're on a valueless lynch because you're not getting a lynch on Pine today. Just facts. Do you need me to quote you where you admit that other people might find Pine not OK?

1. I do agree with this.
2. Earlier in the game I'd disagree with this, but given the state of the game now, this is correct. Just sticking a single vote on someone when there are 2 or 3 other wagons going, the proponents of which aren't budging very much, is not going to go anywhere and Eevee must know this.
If Eevee actually proposed any kind of case for pushing Pine, I'd feel better about it.

I feel like Fuzzy is more obviously scum, but if needed to move this game along, I'll vote Eevee.

Mod, what's the status of the deadline vote?

[Dunnstral]

2. Earlier in the game I'd disagree with this, but given the state of the game now, this is correct. Just sticking a single vote on someone when there are 2 or 3 other wagons going, the proponents of which aren't budging very much, is not going to go anywhere and Eevee must know this.
If Eevee actually proposed any kind of case for pushing Pine, I'd feel better about it.

Seems like a scum on scum interaction to me - eevee with pine

[Hiraki]

"X's posting has been dodgy at best and contradictory at worst" is pretty much exactly what I've been trying to say about Fuzzy. I don't see why you won't see that.

Fuzzy hasn't been doing that. There is a clear difference between Fuzzy's play today (which is 100% self-aware) versus Eevee's game (which is 0% selfaware).

[SirCakez]

viewtopic.php?p=9949534#p9949534

It actually isn’t.

He takes an opinion on the joke? From Hopkins user.

He also remains consistent in the opinions Fuzzy shares.

Here Fuzzy has no opinions and is inconsistent.

I was more referring to the way Fuzzy is very waffly and all like "I need to look at this more..." and doesn't follow some stuff up. It looked similar from a skim.

That said I said I would vote Fuzzy to flip SOMEONE if the game did not move within a few days and it's been a few days.
So
VOTE: Fuzzy

[SirCakez]

And no I am not townreading Fuzzy. I just don't see the strong scum read some have on him. But I do see reason enough to lynch him.

[Kokichi Oma]

Last time I played with eevee shes was easy lynchbait for scum. Want more time to analyze her. Lynch fuzzy

Someone already pointed this out but yeah Fuzzy looks to be even moreso lynchbait then Eeevee, so this post sucks.

You never know when a single vote can spread into a full hammer. I have it on who i think is scummiest. Just cause I'm off the main lynches doesn't mean its a valueless lynch

viewtopic.php?p=9949534#p9949534

It actually isn’t.

He takes an opinion on the joke? From Hopkins user.

He also remains consistent in the opinions Fuzzy shares.

Here Fuzzy has no opinions and is inconsistent.

I was more referring to the way Fuzzy is very waffly and all like "I need to look at this more..." and doesn't follow some stuff up. It looked similar from a skim.

That said I said I would vote Fuzzy to flip SOMEONE if the game did not move within a few days and it's been a few days.
So
VOTE: Fuzzy

Lol?