Mini 2014: Succinct Mafia (Over)

[EeveeLution Army]

LOL nice using my statement to make your claim seem more valid

[Pine]

Not really. You just pointed out the most obvious way to water down a straight Doctor.

[Pine]

Really, if I were going to invent something, I'd go with something more obscure and creative, like a Weak Doctor or something.

[EeveeLution Army]

Yeah but why hide your number of protects. Not like you'll get a chance to use them.

Real doc doctor me imo since ill pushing pine for ya so you dont have to cc so early

[Umlaut]

okay I can post again

---

I don't understand where you're going with this one, how does him being town let him know if your case looks towny vs him being scum

Town!Trinity doesn't care how my case looks to everyone else, she can just say what she actually thinks. Scum!Trinity does care, hesitates, and waits for someone else to react.

Spoiler: Responses to MathBlade

Besides being patently false, in that scum know obvTown when they see it and are not served by pushing for their lynch and thus can evaluate cases for tow ones they just already know who is town.

I'm talking about newbscum who for all we know have never drawn town. No they don't know obvtown when they see it.

Town can act scummy and scum can act towny.

This is an all-purpose counterargument against ever scumreading or townreading any behavior.

Secondly and most importantly why the fuck are you caring how your case “looks”? If you’re town you’d just fucking bring it.

I'm literally talking about a case I already did bring. Except I'm not, I'm actually talking about Trinity's reaction to it.

Ask yourself honestly, did you even finish reading my post before you found a word to latch onto and force into your narrative?

I'm town. Drop it.

Spoiler: Responses to Lucky

@Umlaut...

Dude, first of all, you

asked

me to try to reconcile Fuzzy's play yesterday. So when I do, that makes me scum? As town, I can't possibly be able to try to understand where Fuzzy was coming from, such that my face melts from my skull when I try to reason it out? I guess I should have been obtuse about it and not bother trying to figure out where I went wrong? This feels pretty baity.

It really is quite baity. Toward scum, it's outright manipulative: I'm taking advantage of an unexamined presumption that when you take a test, you pass by answering the questions correctly. I baited you into giving your true understanding regardless of alignment. I'm happy about that.

This reads like complaining after a Rorschach test that you didn't know how it would be scored.

But to answer your rhetorical question, if you'd cited Fuzzy's own explanations and said "I assume he was telling the truth there," instead of giving the same explanation phrased as an independent analysis, that would be fine.

Second, I made it quite clear that in order to reconcile Fuzzy's play, I have to make a super generous read of Fuzzy's statements, such that I can only have read them as coming from town with the benefit of hindsight knowing that he was in fact town.

This is actually fair. I can't say for sure how I would have read Fuzzy without benefit of hindsight. I still think I could have taken his explanation as at least a plausible denial even if I didn't believe it. I hope I wouldn't just forget he offered one and have to reinvent it the next day.

I still don't like this but I'm wavering.

The bit where you say I'm calling for an immediate hammer, I can see how you would interpret it that way. Hiraki is correct that I posted that in the context of trying to see if Koki was actually going to vote Fuzzy or not.

Yeah, why not. Hiraki's interpretation kind of made sense to me when he gave it, but I wanted to see if you confirmed it.

I'd be happier if you had a different answer, but "it's just true" is a reasonable explanation for that.

If Pine's claim is true, Umlaut's scumreads are super off.

I noticed that too. I'm rethinking them. See: end of this post.

---

I just composed an extremely long post entitled "If Eevee is scum, who are his buddies?" (which I decided I shouldn't post just yet) and in the course of rereading all the points against Eevee I realized they're actually really good.

VOTE: EeveeLution Army

This vote is not as

awesome

as the Otter one because I don't get to follow it with two posts of self-satisfied "look, I solved the game all by myself" explanation and rhetoric, but that's maybe a feature and not a bug.

I think this flips red in which case I've already drawn some associatives, just like I said I would never do. Going to wait a bit before publicizing them.

[Dunnstral]

We already lost cop docs dead tonight either way might as well lynch him ourselves.

Uh, that's not how it works.

Why would we lynch the doc just because he is getting night killed? Literally wasting a lynch and doing mafs job for them

[Dunnstral]

Eevee: Doctor has nothing to protect and is a useless role now

Also Eevee: But

real

doc shouldn't claim and we should lynch the only doctor claim

[Wisdom]

umlaut you disappoint me

[MathBlade]

Eevee: Doctor has nothing to protect and is a useless role now

Also Eevee: But

real

doc shouldn't claim and we should lynch the only doctor claim

Not true at all.

All of us are VT except for one protective.

And if Pine is scum then if a protective dies Pine gets powerlynched. This ensures the protective can never die.

And saving an NK is a huge boon for us if it happens. It means that we have a conf town of who the doc tried to protect.

[Pine]

What the fuck is wrong with all of you

We let him live, if hes cop scum kill him, if not hes forced to conftown someone

We absolutely dont lynch a cop claim

Wisdom: What the fuck is wrong with you? Don’t lynch an uncc’d claim.
Wisdom keeps his vote on an uncc’d counterclaim on a wagon with no reasons behind it.

Jesus Wisdom is obvScum or just a hypocrite.

A cop living is much more valuable than a doc living with nothing to protect. We already lost cop docs dead tonight either way might as well lynch him ourselves.

Yeah but why hide your number of protects. Not like you'll get a chance to use them.

Real doc doctor me imo since ill pushing pine for ya so you dont have to cc so early

Okay, this cogdis as me convinced.

VOTE: Eevee

[EeveeLution Army]

Know what its worth me getting nightkilled. I'm Jailkeeper. Wisdom N1

[Umlaut]

Frack.

No one hammer while we sort this out. I'm looking for Hiraki's response in particular.


Note Eevee went from "I dont think doctor makes sense in this" (996) to "Real doc doctor me" (1003) to a claim that implies there is no real doc (1010).

[MathBlade]

Let’s play a game

If I am the protective I protected Kokichi.

[Dunnstral]

UNVOTE:

OK, Pine, who did you protect?

Eevee, why did you pick Wisdom? Why did you wait until you were being wagoned to claim jailkeeper today?

[Pine]

UNVOTE:

OK, Pine, who did you protect?

Eevee, why did you pick Wisdom? Why did you wait until you were being wagoned to claim jailkeeper today?

I already said I didn't. I have a low-number limited-shot, and N1 is the night where protectives are least likely to be useful. They get more efficient (and better at guessing) as days go on.

[MathBlade]

Quite honestly this changes nothing.

We see which of the protective claims dies tonight then whoever’s left eats dirt.

I have ran reverse counter claim gambits and seen stupid counter claims.

Now if anyone wishes to rescind now’s the time.

[Umlaut]

UNVOTE:

You ruined my setup for a fakehammer so I may as well post this.

Totally unofficial and untrustworthy VC

EeveeLution Army - 3 (MafMen, Umlaut, Pine)
MathBlade - 2 (Wisdom, TrinityNZ)
Pine - 2 (EeveeLution Army, Hiraki)
TrinityNZ - 1 (MathBlade)

Not Voting - 3 (Lycanfire, LuckyOtter, Dunnstral)

want to see what Lycan does.

Yeah.

Let’s play a game

If I am the protective I protected Kokichi.

This doesn't make sense in this setup.

There is just no way both of these claims are fake. If they are, real protective counters right now and we lynch them all, getting two scum for at worst one doctor.

You've been hard-townreading Pine. You've been hard-townreading Eevee. One of them is scum. Which is it?

@Trinity

You've never given any hint of a read on the following slots: Dunnstral, EeveeLution Army, Wisdom. I'd like to know where you place them right now. Actually, a full read list would be helpful.

[Hiraki]

Finally, the truth arises.

Vote: Eevee

[Lycanfire]

hi why are people voting the counterclaimer

[Lycanfire]

page 10 w/ the flips cuz i gave up and tried to find out what page the day ends. pr sure my reads will gain color when i see how the lynch went down.

cakez/trinity strikes me as a chronic shit stirrer (votes hiraki after pine backs up my pred, votes fitz after wisdom+mom shade him). shit stirs with otter x2, plainly trying to establish TFL vote=bad, but refuses to promote fitz. later tosses fitz & reasons for tring otter also suck as he never re-evaled his eevee, he re-evaled other options 500F

[Wisdom]

VOTE: pine

[Wisdom]

eevee is obviously telling the truth and pine is obviously scum
But somehow im sure youll lynch the jailkeeper again

[Lycanfire]

haven't slept in like 20 hours and realized it's 500 words instead of characters wow i might be slurred

so i don't think otter and cakez are partners because of how cakez has been talking to him. wagonomics around page 8 also make little sense for an independently scum otter, because TFL-Mom are two helpful flips here that simplifies the problem (no bussing). basically otter had options and went for TFL, who was supreme lynchbait while fitz-wisdom were the biggest wagons (and i don't think all three of them are buds)

hiraki might be town for voting wisdom, basically momrangal nailed it when she insinuated his reads were too easy. meanwhile, i hated mathblade's binary logic upon their replace in. wisdom is a tunnelfuck, and letting him be an unproductive tunnelfuck is a self resolving matter, because town!wisdom would eventually grow a clue, so hitting his blind spots of reads (cakez, mom, eevee) really only distracts from fitz.

of the two i'd more trust a townread on wisdom. my beef with wisdom is how he's a tunnelfuck and tries to have a moment of lucidity by prompting hiraki for a read on fitz. upon getting a townread response he proceeds to do absolutely nothing with that information and laments that fitz is simply scummier than everyone else (

narrator: he wasn't

). fitz could be town too, but his townreads in 242 suck. for instance, dunnstral refused to share with the class why in 140 wisdom is suddenly looking better (hi this could help the town at this point). cakez tr. math tr. gerry's wisdom tussle (no reason vs. "better vote") was inaccurate, beyond that gerry was farting around.

i hated mathblade slot since brie, mainly for her hiraki unvote, to shading gerryx3 (and encouraging pine's SR of him), and by the time she puts attention on eevee, her vote is STILL better placed on gerry, not that she ever voted before replacing out. brie was helpful w/ eevee RVS, but brie has several opportunities to make good votes, and chose not to.

so

1 of pine or eevee scum (foregone)
cakezscum
mathblade scum with eevee makes sense based pred?

pine flipping scum would make pg1-pg2 wagons interesting:

TFL voters: Pine, Wisdom, Otter
Pine voters: Cakez, Fitz

AA Voters: Wisdom, Hiraki
Anti-AA Voters: AA (Wisdom), Pine (shades Hiraki), Cakez (Hiraki), Wisdom (Hiraki), Momrangal (Wisdom), Gerry (novote), Brie (Hiraki)

fitz is super cool happy to sit on pine, fight with wisdom and squat on momrangal. pine and otter can't get enough of town booty for the foreseeable future. pine wagon collapses as cakez jumps off onto hiraki after pine makes AA's wagon less attractive.

don't have much to say about pine, i noticed that he promoted TFL parallel to fitz while cakez utterly refused to push fitz despite voting him, and talked otter down from TFL at least twice. pine never once seemed to give a shit.

i've got nothing on eevee besides lack of rvs

[Wisdom]

i like you but cakez isnt scum

[Lycanfire]

cakez is a super easy wolf to spot though

accelerating pagebottom for justice and sleep