Mini 2019: Game Throwing UPick Game over!

[Firebringer]

he is saying in order to frame you, the scum have to know who nauci is jailkeeping.

[ScumBeGone]

Busier today than I anticipated

I jailed Magik last night but there's so much going on this game I'm not sure what to make of it

i think magik would have been the kill target so this doesn't help anything.

because i think magik was not likely lynch target future days.
maybe yesterday, not after the day.

although honestly nauci would be a better target (just because of the JK).

I actuall dont know who i would ahve killed as scum the more i think about it.

this reasoning is weakly founded.

by the same token, we have serious cause right now to think we may have been targeted by the kill given we have a night bulletproof ability that we took care to crumb in thread yesterday inconspicuously; i’ll quote it here in a minute. we are not stating if it’s 1-s or sth different. scum will have to figure that out themselves by directing bullets our way!

plus, we have only been voted twice this entire game—by messiah complex in rvs and now you last day phase/now.

d1, i think the majority of players townread us. messiah complex even stated us as their only confident townread, and i was kind of disappointed that such was all they could give.

we wanted to be the kill attempt n1, to absorb it immediately. that is precisely why we focused so much on looking town d1, so scum would make a mistake and target us. we were shocked to see messiah be the kill over us.

look, i’ll reinvestigate your iso before we lay a vote down, and read everything in detail, promise! i’ll reread some things and take some notes and stances in the thread, as that is the best thing we can do to help town out moving forward.

[MagikHorse]

he is saying in order to frame you, the scum have to know who nauci is jailkeeping.

I get this. That just wasn't the intention. The end result is the same regardless: Nauci jailkept me, Mafia nokilled, I get framed because of the jailkeep. Was it planned to be me? Probably not, but this is something I think they could also predict given Nauci's single-mindedness. Really, you're just pushing on a miscommunication here.

Also, ScumBeGone is bulletproof? If I was scum I would've been pushing for a kill on you, so I can see it as possible. Will be awaiting that crumb.

[Dunnstral]

I don't think a no kill gambit is likely.

Before the vig was given out, the amount of players alive meant we were essentially losing a lynch (we'd get taken down to 4 players instead of an odd 5/3)

Scum no killing there means they are giving town an additional lynch

Also, I think you look suspicious in your argument that this was an attempt to frame you

[Dunnstral]

Speaking of which: go ahead and use the vig Nauci. It's possible - probable even - that we get another kill/protect down the line

[ScumBeGone]

interesting kill...

i need to talk with my hydra partner about some things here

I thought the slot was fairly obvious town

This could be telling
I know as scum I'll generally interject thoughts about the kill that reflect the true reasons why I did it

fair enough, i can see how you could think that.
but everything would make so much sense if we roleclaimed. like total sense
but i don’t think we’re ready to full claim yet because we’d clearly be tipping the scales to scum by either making us a primary nk choice or eliminating us from primary nk choice if we did that

...still waiting on a response from my hydra partner. asdaf

la

mserisfof

roux

msmsmmdjeidoslm

at

heiesefprreeraadmper

night

offlames is all i will say on that

notice: la roux at night

who is la roux?

singer of the song bulletproof:


that is our crumb!

[ScumBeGone]

i think scum might have took a gamble from our line in 474 in thinking that us claiming would make us primary nk, so thus we avoided claiming. would make sense!

[MagikHorse]

I don't think a no kill gambit is likely.

Before the vig was given out, the amount of players alive meant we were essentially losing a lynch (we'd get taken down to 4 players instead of an odd 5/3)

Scum no killing there means they are giving town an additional lynch

Also, I think you look suspicious in your argument that this was an attempt to frame you

You're pushing way too hard on this misunderstanding (a.k.a. "I have currently been framed by it", not "I was intentionally chosen to be framed"). I've already explained it twice in a row, and now here I am explaining it a third time. Don't make me have to say it a fourth time just to get it into your skull.

Even if it's not optimal, if the scum successfully frame whoever Nauci jailkept (in this case, me) they get a mislynch. Then on top of this, the next day Not_Mafia has to be policy lynched to avoid a scummy quickhammer the next day because of his (pseudo?) Hated role. It's probably not optimal, but at that time what else was I gonna assume but either I got attacked or that they're pulling off this gambit? I didn't know yet that ScumBeGone was BP, and thusly didn't have that as a possible option yet, so I had to choose one of these two options.

I will cede that ScumBeGone's BP abilities are a much more likely reason for the lack of nightly kill over the gambit play, but you can't blame me for calling the nokill framing gambit more likely before I knew of the BP's existence. I am many things, but internet psychic isn't one of them.

[Dunnstral]

I'm not misunderstanding anything

[Dunnstral]

Even if it's not optimal, if the scum successfully frame whoever Nauci jailkept (in this case, me) they get a mislynch.

Trying to frame you and getting your lynch through doesn't make sense because scum only open up that mislynch by nokilling

The not_mafia stuff can apply to either scenario

[MagikHorse]

I'm not misunderstanding anything

Honestly, it really feels right now like you're just making a big deal out of this because I was wrong, so let me remind you of one thing: being wrong doesn't make you scum, nor does it make you suspicious. This rings even truer when you're talking about a player with a total of 2 scum games: one which hardly counts because it was years ago and the town self-destructed, and one which was a Marathon game that went faster than I could keep up with. I don't really know how scum thinks as well as someone like you would. I just see two options, think I wasn't townread enough to be a NK target, and deemed the alternative more likely in light of that. There is nothing odd or unusual about any of that.

I've already conceded that it's the less likely option now that new information has been provided in the BP claim, and now I concede that my reasoning doesn't make as much sense as I thought it did. I still stand by what I said at the time, since without the BP claim I still doubt I'd be the NK, but that's outdated info by now. What more do you want to hear from me?

[Firebringer]

he is saying in order to frame you, the scum have to know who nauci is jailkeeping.

I get this. That just wasn't the intention. The end result is the same regardless: Nauci jailkept me, Mafia nokilled, I get framed because of the jailkeep. Was it planned to be me? Probably not, but this is something I think they could also predict given Nauci's single-mindedness. Really, you're just pushing on a miscommunication here.

Also, ScumBeGone is bulletproof? If I was scum I would've been pushing for a kill on you, so I can see it as possible. Will be awaiting that crumb.

theres a big difference in the scum trying to frame YOU and the scum no killing to frame SOMEONE.

and i think its unlikely scum would care to no kill to frame ANYONE. So this argument is moot.

[ceejayvinoya]

Do you mean to say you think ceejay might have a valid claim because there were 3 neighborizors day 1?

I think that's why hemade his claim, I don't think that's enough for his claim to be valid

This has both been discussed by me and the guy I replaced. What with my claim pinged you as untrue?

[ceejayvinoya]

Here is to inform everyone that I am not in any neighborhood pt, which means I'm not yet miller. So yay.

[ceejayvinoya]

Seeing no kill makes me think that the scum intentionally nokilled to try and make it look like I am scum. In fact, I'd guarantee it. If I was scum I'd be the last person to do the kill if killing was our goal, knowing that Nauci was likely to target me with the JK ability after all that pushing throughout Day 2. I doubt the scum really want me dead after flopping around like a fish yesterday (unless I was pushing on one or more scum harder than I thought I was yesterday. Might have to look into this), so an intentional nokill makes a fair bit of sense.

Why did you immediately assume that and not the inverse? Which is that scum tried to kill you?

I find it hard to believe that scum did an nk, when there may be possible town roles that could potentially make the game harder for them if they didn't kill at all.

[ceejayvinoya]

EBWOP did not do an nk

[MagikHorse]

Seeing no kill makes me think that the scum intentionally nokilled to try and make it look like I am scum. In fact, I'd guarantee it. If I was scum I'd be the last person to do the kill if killing was our goal, knowing that Nauci was likely to target me with the JK ability after all that pushing throughout Day 2.

I doubt the scum really want me dead after flopping around like a fish yesterday

(unless I was pushing on one or more scum harder than I thought I was yesterday. Might have to look into this), so an intentional nokill makes a fair bit of sense.

Why did you immediately assume that and not the inverse? Which is that scum tried to kill you?

I find it hard to believe that scum did an nk, when there may be possible town roles that could potentially make the game harder for them if they didn't kill at all.

This is a good question, and I'm glad you brought it up this way.

I'm rehashing a bit, but I felt like my Day 2 play was too sloppy, hence the whole "I doubt the scum really want me dead after flopping around like a fish" bit I bolded above. We already know how I felt about my pushes yesterday when I commented on poking at anything that stuck out by even a tiny bit because I otherwise just felt useless while arguing with Fire in 716, a clear sign I didn't really have much of a clue to what was going on at all and making me a less likely kill target. Why would scum lynch me when that was the kind of pushing power I had when there were better targets like ScumBeGone and Nauci around that were essentially leading the town? Either of them were more universally townread and were overall better and more likely NK targets from my perspective for driving the town forward through the first two days. Nauci in particular seemed even more likely than normal given that she had her jailkeeper powers and killing her last night would've also silenced any knowledge of who she jailed, and denying that information would've seemed like a good idea to me, although I could also see SBG being targeted for having better reads instead of just tunneling a few individuals to the exclusion of most else on top of his own request that Nauci not jail him.

Essentially, I wasn't thinking along the lines of what said gambit would mean, since I really don't have any relevant experience as scum and suck at thinking along those lines anyways.
Now that we have that BP claim on someone likely to be a NK target while in turn requesting not to be jailed, things click into place as scum biting his BP bait and no longer think that this is a likely possibility at all.

[Gamma Emerald]

they chose to nokill.

huh?
Also I think the quest I had the last two days is officially failed and gone

[MagikHorse]

they chose to nokill.

huh?
Also I think the quest I had the last two days is officially failed and gone

That's already outdated, and I've explained it several times already to boot. If you want clarification, read the thread. If you need more, ask.

[Gamma Emerald]

I read, I don't really get why scum would nokill

[Nauci]

I jailed Magik because I thought that if he was scum, there's no way he'd have performed the NK because I was FOSing him hard, but that if has wasn't, scum might target him

As scum I did a no kill night 1 once and it successfully framed someone and outed the JK though so I don't think this result is super informative, but rather just one of the data points

[Nauci]

viewtopic.php?f=50&t=75861

We got Thor killed and both PRs claimed lmao

[Nauci]

I think it's quite a bit more likely that ScumBeGone was the target though, between being the most townread and outright claiming some sort of PR, and Magik only maybe the 3rd most likely

[Nauci]

I feel like ceejay is town here

That's such an absurd and generally not useful thing for scum to claim, and it was done so instantaneously by his predecessor, though that one left a ton of room for interpretation

[Nauci]

(while part of why I tunneled and didn't contribute much yesterday was to not get shot at night, I do still scumread Mylo)

(But right now, let's talk about Gamma Emerald, who seems to mostly talk about nothing)