mini 2093, the search - an interminable period of darkness.

[Errantparabola]

I will continue to reject the premise that bounty hunter was playing a lost game (at least before they claimed). In my opinion the outlaw is primed to believe that outing with severely hurt their wincon by drawing a nightkill. I will concede that the wording of the bounty hunter should have signalled this but I think that I explicitly highlighted the lynch option as a possibility.

I've highlighted the flaws that exists with the role. I think it was a bad role. But you were not in a lost situation. I believe that since your chance to win went down significantly in the course of one night (I'd say, with yet another acknowledgement that bounty hunter is disadvantaged here, probably from >50% to <15%) it

seemed

unwinnable because of the differences of your expectations (that you would kill chennis and win) and reality (chennis was not your target and the kill was blocked).

[Errantparabola]

And I would not blame you if you had decided to disengage with the game (lurk, post less, one head flake as happened) because say, for example, a lone scum player who assesses their situation to be <15% chance of winning may end up doing the same. That was not the source of my frustration.

[Errantparabola]

I could be misinterpreting why you thought it was unwinnable -- that's just my interpretation of things

[Channel Fireball]

But fireball did disengage with the game. Fireball stopped playing and as far as I know she's not even checking the site. So it seems like you're frustrated with Fireball but expressing your frustration to me when pretty much all I did was ride out the game after she left? Random. And ultimately all she did was tilt replace out so...

I mean theoretically the game was winnable, yes. Fireball said the game was theoretically winnable but it was not practically winnable without town deciding to award our slot a win over ic gg. That's a remote enough win condition that most people will leave. I don't see why you think the claim was a misplay. The claim was the only remaining wincon (if you are not assuming bounty target is town and has to survive). Since we didn't know the ic had a survivor wincon, we had to play toward the idea that the bounty target could win with us. So you're acting like we threw when we were just making assumptions necessary to continue playing to wincon, i.e. making assumptions that allow for a win still being possible in an otherwise lost game.

[Errantparabola]

okay. You're fine

[Jingle]

Welcome to the game, [NAME].
You are a Mafia Whisperer. You are aligned with the Mafia. You win when mafia compose a majority of the players (or when nothing can prevent this), and there is at least one member of the mafia alive.

Prophetic Whisper: You know that in this game are the Prophet and the False Whisperer. Every night, you must PM me a message. This will be sent to the Prophet. You will receive their response at the end of the following day.

Lead the Searcher: At the end of the game, the Prophet will attempt to divine the identity of the true Whisperer. The Prophet must correctly identify you to win.

Criminal Conspiracy: As a member of the mafia, you have access to factional nightkills. Each member of your team can perform one nightkill, which must conform to the order detailed in your mafia topic. You may also choose not to kill on a certain night.

Your mafia topic is here. [LINK] The members of the mafia are [NAME], [NAME], and [NAME].

I genuinely don't understand how this role can win, ever.

If scum wins, the town whisperee person has absolutely no reason to guess anyone, because they've already lost.

[Errantparabola]

I don't understand that at all. They have no reason not to guess? If it doesn't matter then why would you not want to engage with the content of your role to see if you could get it right?

[Jingle]

Eh. I don't agree with chen's decision to concede (and never agree with any decision to concede in mafia, tbh,) but I can definitely understand the frustration of having that role. It works within the constraint of your advertisements and I don't think getting the role PM would make me mad, but I don't see being completely reliant on another player to continue playing a game after they've lost, not being willing to refuse their direct opposition the win, and then making an accurate 1v1 guess based entirely on their own desire to ego win a lost game as being a reasonable wincon.

I would, as town, take the role to be modspewed as town, tbh.

[Errantparabola]

Yes you raise a good point in this regard i think

[Errantparabola]

No yeah you're definitely right

[Errantparabola]

I think we can consider this game unambiguously a failure

[Jingle]

Again, I don't think I personally would be mad to get the role. It's all part and parcel of what you said the game was. I just think it's worth pointing out in case anyone else wants to run a similar setup in the future.

[Jingle]

Eh. As long as you learned something and at least one person had fun I don't think it's a total failure. If anything, it was well worth the read and I'm a little disappointed that I was too busy to play in it when it was in the queue.

[skitter30]

i don't think it turned out quite as you imagined but i don't think it was a failure

[chennisden]

Eh. I don't agree with chen's decision to concede (and never agree with any decision to concede in mafia, tbh,) but I can definitely understand the frustration of having that role. It works within the constraint of your advertisements and I don't think getting the role PM would make me mad, but I don't see being completely reliant on another player to continue playing a game after they've lost, not being willing to refuse their direct opposition the win, and then making an accurate 1v1 guess based entirely on their own desire to ego win a lost game as being a reasonable wincon.

I would, as town, take the role to be modspewed as town, tbh.

i did think of this, but i dismissed it

the biggest reason is 1 NK tbh. i dont think i wouldve won with 1 nk

i also don't think this was a "bad game" or a "total failure" by any means, i just think it was some small details and poor play from my part.

HOWEVER, i don't think people's use of this game to say "oh look, chennis must be bad at scum" a la gobble last page is really, like, okay or accurate at all. like, consider that 1) the team was dead after cyrus claimed 2) we had 1 NK 3) i was frustrated in part because i was hydraflaked on and did not sign up to solo a scumgame and 4) replacing out = making a slot nobody wanted to take. i never intended to do this and if i knew i would've done this i would've replaced out.

considering i've been in similar situations and considered conceding this is a ME problem though. (see gay dance, where i wanted to concede after my flipped scumpartner basically outed me and my other partner replaced out on me and i had to go solo for a LONG TIME.) there was mayyyybe a path to the factional wincon you're right. but considering SkyG would flip as "whisperer" and like skitter has no reason to hand the fucking W to me if i won as scum... no. i didn't think i had a reasonable chance of winning and that's part of why i didn't think anyone would take the slot. i know i should've replaced out or something in hindsight, but i guess i got tilted. sorry.

[chennisden]

Sadly I think if Chennis was a better scum play you probably save your shot and have a better shot at doing stuff.

Like, no, this isn't fair or acceptable imo

[Channel Fireball]

I would like to precise since we got criticism for not replacing out and complaining about a lost game.

We discussed about replacing out, and we decided it would be outright unfair to replace out, to subject someone to a game they cannot win. I think the much worse alternative would have been to replace out and make the person replacing us realize that they cannot win. And yes, that is frustrating and anyone would have complained at our place. It's natural to feel frustrated when you already know you absolutely cannot win at all.

I don't think this game was a failure, for all that's worth, but as others have mentioned the game design inherently was problematic in a few ways. Could use a lot more polish in terms of design. Apologies for losing my temper this game, but it was hard not to.

- Fireball.

[cyrus62]

can i count his game as completed or not?

[Jingle]

Yes. This is a completed game.

For most purposes, it was a completed game for you when you got lynched.

[MariaR]