Mini Theme 2164: Betrayal Mafia I (Game over!)

[lilith2013]

V OTECOUNT 3.035
P LAYER N AME	C URRENT V OTES		S TRENGTH	S PEED	K NOWLEDGE	P LAYER N AME
Gamma Emerald	None	EL-6	2	1	6	Gamma Emerald
SirCakez	None	EL-6	2	3	3	SirCakez
CreativeMod1	None	EL-6	3	4	3	CreativeMod1
Albert B. Rampage	I Keep Siteflaking	EL-5	3	3	3	Albert B. Rampage
LavarManos	None	EL-6	3	3	4	LavarManos
DkKoba	None	EL-6	3	3	3	DkKoba
I Keep Siteflaking	DkKoba	EL-5	3	3	3	I Keep Siteflaking
PenguinPower	None	EL-6	3	3	3	PenguinPower
Fun and Games	Albert B. Rampage, CreativeMod1, Noraa, JohnnyFarrar	EL-2	3	3	3	Fun and Games
Noraa	Fun and Games	EL-5	3	4	3	Noraa
JohnnyFarrar	None	EL-6	3	3	6	JohnnyFarrar
Not Voting	Gamma Emerald, SirCakez, LavarManos, PenguinPower
With 11 alive, it takes 6 to eliminate. Deadline: (expired on 2020-10-27 16:13:10)
Notes: JohnnyFarrar is V/LA until Oct 21 pagetops: Lilith 54 | penguin 18 | ABR 11 | dk 6 | iks 6 | gamma 4 | noraa 4 | johnnyf 3 | cm1 2 | fun & games 2 | nosferatu 2 | cakez 2 | gb 1 | bingle 1 | lavar 1

[Gamma Emerald]

Hey gamma why is nora town tho?

I feel like she has been quite genuine in her solving, though her reads aren't the best. Plus I think the majority of people who've expressed interest in voting her were people I wasn't a fan of to begin with.
And even if she were scum, I don't think trying to vote her out now is the play.

[DkKoba]

OK quote what you think is towny

[DkKoba]

how about u stop looking at whos voting and consider your reads could be wrong and look at independent action lol
And honestly dunno if ur The Voice whos trying to be super towny and such and wanna steer town away from a good solve bc the way ur in constant diagreement and are stubborn on this fng wagon would not be towny from a completely unclear player.

[DkKoba]

Actualy scratch that last part i forgot u were attacked with other factional attack im tired as hell

[DkKoba]

but seriously u are really playing stubborn and proud to the point where im questioning alignment

[DkKoba]

She said her ability is activated and she bas 4 speed and she clained an ability named assassin. Why isnt she the best vote if she is scum??? scum albert and scum nora are the most optimal elims assuming they are scum

[DkKoba]

literally name one towny thing nora has done d3 like shes slipping scum whos losing logical consistency. When ur scum u cant keep up a facade longterm unless u are extemely skilled at scumplay. Ppl wanna lim fng but no one has offered a compelling case. Just all yelling abt d2 and how they were a competing wagon. Like so what???? That doesnt mean anything thats such a lazy excuse. Fng could be scum yes but literally so many ppl are just tunneling the slot its a bit annoying

[DkKoba]

lavar/albert/nora /mayne johnny they kinda started to ping me recently like idk if their analysis is genuine. Iks i wanna believe that scumslip is real but the post they quoted isna good explaination why they might post assuming that and mentally slip that thought process that way. Idk i think we have only 1 more ML left bc ppl are gonna start dying at night soon

[Gamma Emerald]

sure whats ur plan to help us not get chain killed into a loss?
Whats ur case on fng? Wheres your logic?
What are your reads?
You got any mech analysis you wanna share since youre the most logicest?

Right now even if ABR is scum, scum at most can kill like 2 people (me and another player), and if they kill you they get outed. That still leaves, assuming a miselim today, 5 town vs. 3 scum, and if that chain of events happens we get a guarantee scum elim. So I'm not particularly concerned about a chain kill rn. And I already said I don't think ABR is scum because of the fact I don't get mauled last night or the night before, and the factional hidden attack still uses the attacking stats of the player who performs it even though it is hidden (I asked about it and that's what I remember being told). If you want to push ABR as scum you need to find some way to counter this point that isn't essentially a "well but" comment. I'm interested in the probable option rn, not the possible one.

I feel like from the start F&G has been trying to worm out town's info to try and discover the exploitable positions. As I've said, plans early on are scummy, and this case I'm legit about the fact that it is scummy. When it's early on, putting out all the info only serves to let scum know what to look out for, while town doesn't get as good a picture of what to look out for from scum. It benefits town to massclaim and form plans later in the game when enough info has been generated to potentially narrow down the possible scum a fair amount.

I have been quite clear on my reads, I don't feel like anything has changed since the last time I posted my tier list.

I don't know what sort of mechanical analysis would be productive rn, the mechanics in place don't really lend themselves to hard analysis I think, at least in terms of drawing strong conclusions.

[Gamma Emerald]

but seriously u are really playing stubborn and proud to the point where im questioning alignment

Maybe because you're doing the exact same thing????? I have 0 evidence that you have the skill to back up your confidence, so unless you wanna provide some meta to indicate that, I'm incredibly skeptical of you trying to command the game rn.

[DkKoba]

Trying to mechanically solve isnt scummy Lol

[DkKoba]

theres setups where massclaiming is bad and setupd where its secretly pro town but town doesnt know

[Gamma Emerald]

literally name one towny thing nora has done d3 like shes slipping scum whos losing logical consistency. When ur scum u cant keep up a facade longterm unless u are extemely skilled at scumplay. Ppl wanna lim fng but no one has offered a compelling case. Just all yelling abt d2 and how they were a competing wagon. Like so what???? That doesnt mean anything thats such a lazy excuse. Fng could be scum yes but literally so many ppl are just tunneling the slot its a bit annoying

Yeah, except Noraa actually did a pretty good job keeping up a facade of logical consistency in her last completed scum game, MafiaSunny. I saw through it myself but I had an advantage and I couldn't articulate myself well enough to actually convince anyone due to being drowned out by the noise Noraa was generating. Her play here feels so wildly different that it seems town just off of that, but I've also felt like her solving D2 was very real, despite not being that great, and I recall someone else pushed it as bad town in a shady TMI way.

[DkKoba]

abr isnt scummy bc of their ability theyre scummy bc they are constantly iioa'ing and have compliancy in their tone

[DkKoba]

mafiascum players stop using meta of less than 5 games especially a different setup as a way to read people definitively challenge

[DkKoba]

I dont trust meta on someone until i have at least 3 games and even then its not solid . Ppl can adapt their style. Change it up. Have a different reaction to things bc its a different environment. This table is not the same as mafiasunny table. Yes nora is still trying to use logic but its being applied in a scummy way.

[Gamma Emerald]

Trying to mechanically solve isnt scummy Lol

Maybe, but trying to get everyone to, in the great words of MathBlade, drop their pants at the very beginning of the game only serves to give scum a good idea of what to do with their abilities. They are the

informed minority

, they already start off with a good knowledge advantage and outside of super-broken Open setups you're probably not going to counter that with a D1 massclaim. And with the amount of tools they've been shown to have tucked away, outing everything D1 would have given them a MASSIVE advantage over town. And outing early puts the focus on keeping everything out in the open, which just makes things easier for scum I feel.
PEdit: please compress your fucking posts because if you keep spamming at this level I'm going to at the very least start ignoring your posts.

[DkKoba]

Plans early on are not scummy idk u know what a scum tell looks like. Casing people early is scummy. Being super complacent is scummy. Hammering someone you say you supposedly have a null read on without letting them speak is scummy.
Yes these are all scumtells i have picked up on when successfully sussing out mafia.

Also one is to encourage anti town mechanical play. Discredit clears (for non ego players often theres more nuance when it is an ego player)

Im not the best player but ive some decent experienfe and can articulate some things.

[DkKoba]

ok but beyond that did they do anything scummy

[DkKoba]

I think everyone should claim what they chose to do last night, or at the very least if they chose to explore or not

VOTE: SirCakez

~ Games

I have no problem saying it too - we explored
(This is a hydra btw)

It would be kinda silly to just start off by claiming only for it to devolve into it *just* being us claiming, no?

I kinda dont see why we *wouldnt* claim that. As far as I can tell there's no drawbacks (and nobody has shared any reasons why it would be a bad idea, either), so I'm not sure why we should be secretive about it. It's gonna be a mess of night actions anyways and setting a precedent of being open wrt what went on at night will help piece everything together later. I basically think the more info and knowledge we have the easier it will be to figure out what's going on

Also it's fallacious to say I'm asking for massclaim imo.

~ Games

Wouldnt we want to try to coordinate that so we dont have 7 people trying to do that at the same time?

It's very very possible I missed something in the rules but i'm not sure why we'd want/need to hide that info?

Or like now there's 2 labs. What if 6 people pile on the first one and nobody goes to the second one?

Like I just dont fully understand what the benefit is to deliberately be secretive about everything

Also stats are public so wouldnt we just want to send the people with like the two highest knowledge scores to lab 1 and then the next two people to lab 2 (or some slight variation on this)?

(I'm saying like 2 people because if we just send one they can be scum and just not go and lie about it, but if two people are sent we'd need them both to be scum for that to happen)

~ Games

These are towny sentiments like?? This is directing night actions. No askinf to claim abilities or anything why is this scummy??

[DkKoba]

Idfgi i would have said the same thing d1

[Gamma Emerald]

She said her ability is activated and she bas 4 speed and she clained an ability named assassin. Why isnt she the best vote if she is scum??? scum albert and scum nora are the most optimal elims assuming they are scum

Noraa I could maybe see, but the facts of what has transpired really give me the sense ABR is not scum. Again, I was already down a point in speed, so I only needed to take 4 damage for ABR to one shot me as opposed to the base 5. The fact I didn't see ridiculously high damage numbers against me either means he got super fucking unlucky or he wasn't the attacker, and if he was scum why would he claim his massive damage modifiers instead of keeping them hidden and using them to punch through the town? This is one of the advantages to NOT massclaiming early, as you get to evaluate the timing of claims and potentially find alignment from it.
As for Noraa, she can use any and all of her actions she is allowed by her speed stat to attack/steal. So if she were scum, blocking the gym N1 kinda makes that not as functional, doesn't it? There was an entire other room they could have blocked, and they could have very blocked the library to prevent towns from getting more knowledge to potentially destroy labs. There's more room for doubt but I think the night events point towards Noraa!town over Noraa!scum.

[I Keep Siteflaking]

the labs count towards majority. Thats their advantage.

amount of scum = max {amount of living scum; amount of labs + amount of living voices -1}.
There is only 1 voice.
Town loses in parity.
Labs aren't that useful.

[Gamma Emerald]

godFUCKINGdammit are you even TRYING to see my side?!?!?!?!?!!?! I keep explaining myself but you keep going "nah I don't think so". If you're going to be this impossible to work with, STOP ENGAGING ME, because I'm losing my damn mind over here!!!!!!