Mini 2265: Bears with Guns 2: Pandamonium game over

[Malakittens]

Tbh I scumread you Mala I just never wanted to vote you. So well done.

Gg sorry my wim is hard in general atm

I get that & im sorry

There’s a few people I actually felt bad playing scum against this game.

[Roden]

Also feel bad for Greeting and JV since their pushes were actually pretty spot on but no one believed them.

PE: Yeah, looking at the mod thread it seemed like town should've been able to get more done, it's unfortunate it didn't pan out. I'm not sure what I could've done had I not died so early though so idk.

[Malakittens]

Oh and as for not hammering CSF. I had actually forgotten all about it because I was chatting with my coworker way to fucking much that morning and then when I got home I continued to chat with my coworker on Snapchat and completely forgot about the game while eating an English muffin

I WAS LIKE OMG THE GAME AND IT WAS TOO LATE

[StrangeMatter]

I hate being right but never having the right reasons half the time.

[StrangeMatter]

I mean, how can your intuition on something right but you just can never seem to do anything else right.

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Oh and as for not hammering CSF. I had actually forgotten all about it because I was chatting with my coworker way to fucking much that morning and then when I got home I continued to chat with my coworker on Snapchat and completely forgot about the game while eating an English muffin

I WAS LIKE OMG THE GAME AND IT WAS TOO LATE

Well it all worked out so English muffin MVP

[JacksonVirgo]

4 mafia? Bruh

[JacksonVirgo]

Town played like trash

[JacksonVirgo]

Setup was fine. Except the scum having 4 players, that was broken and slightly unfortunate lol
Dwee played fine, thought he was Town. Mala if push came to shove I would have probably scum-read over anybody after CSF/Enchant died but this is coming from retrospect who knows what I would have actually thought.

Again retrospectively, mafia played ok. Probably not the the state of winning without getting a single one of them killed, probably a goof on my end for not expecting a fourth but that was pretty unconventional so I don't blame myself for that. Math again was pretty hard-tunnelled, I myself was a little bit I am glad I somewhat kept my biases in check and kept on CSF.

[Toogeloo]

My townblocing was good. I was disappointed by both end of day 2 and 3. MegA should have never been eliminated Day 2, and I don't even know what to say about Day 3.

[JacksonVirgo]

I think this loss means I get some pizza :p

[Toogeloo]

I can't be upset at the loss. Pandas are majestic and superior creatures.

[JacksonVirgo]

I was also painfully aware I was allowing a few people to be able to pocket me, a flaw that luckily didn't come to flourish but worth noting mentally for future games.

[JacksonVirgo]

I can't be upset at the loss. Pandas are majestic and superior creatures.

Lmfao, that's fair.

[Jingle]

4 mafia? Bruh

4 mafia versus a slightly more broken ftc town, yeah. It was higher swing than a normal for sure.

[Morning Tweet]

As a prenote, I didn't read this game, I had a skim of the setup design and some thoughts on it and wanted to give some more

Having played a mini with six scum I can def say that more scum does not necessarily equal more power -- I do like the idea this setup was going for to try and see if 4 can work in a mini

I am more inclined to be in the camp of more scum = more swing, but not necessarily more scumsided.

When there's extra scum, scum starts to get restrictions that usually result in extra scum deaths. In these cases, scum is only as strong as the weakest team member. So in this game say if one of the scum lovers is deemed scummy early, now two scum are down and all the interactions that come with that are out -- it's likely the other two scum had to dance around the lovers, etc etc and it has the potential to spiral out of control for them

Add in heavy town power that might not be dealt with early, you might end up catching all scum instantly. Or this happens where one of the roles gets elimed D1 and no scum end up dying. But it's definitely likely that one of the extremes was going to happen

[Greeting]

Disappointed and surprised, but not very surprised. I will post my thoughts when I get back from work.

[JacksonVirgo]

MathBlade, probably worth noting that I do not blame you for your locked-read on me. It was valid, even though from my perspective it was flawed (which is a guaranteed, as I knew my alignment).

[MathBlade]

Yeah I think partially I just need a break.

[Dwlee99]

I had fun this game, thanks for modding. I actually think this setup was mildly townsided but probably too night play reliant. Watcher is a pretty busted role imo, and an ungated watcher + jailkeeper + delayed vigilante + the JOAT is actually a lot of power. I think the only real path to victory for scum in this setup is to stomp through D1 and D2 kinda blatantly and take advantage of town not realizing they are in ELO D3, which is the one we took. If scum got eliminated day one though, town power would poe scum in too hard and probably create a conftown watcher that is getting WIFOM protected and that scum have no means of killing which would be really awful to play.

[StrangeMatter]

I don't think that makes up for 4 scum being able to control town for a majority of the game.

Also I didn't use my role right either though not knowing if there's a roleblocker (in general it is more common for scum to have roleblockers) or just have another PR.

[StrangeMatter]

really didn't help.*

[Greeting]

First things first, thank you for your apology Mala. I accept it, and I apologise for my wording in return. Although it wasn't meant to be personal, it was a bit too harsh and was a reflection of my extreme annoyance at the situation and your defense presented. If that is my toxic trait then here is one to balance it out: I do not hold grudges against anyone and I'm surprisingly quick to forgive and forget, which had already happened while the game was still going. Let's hope that we both can learn from this.

Secondly, JV, you were in the right and I was in the wrong here. Sorry for that.

Finally, the game itself. Thank you for hosting it Nero and thank you to everyone for playing. I think the theme was cool and tbf I think the Veterinarian being able to poison someone is fantastic.

The set-up was unfortunately flawed.

Was it balanced?
On paper: kinda, but swingy.
In reality: not really.
I guess one could look at it as: town having strong PRs vs. mafia having more in terms of player numbers. But, if you break it down, then the PRs were strongly town-sided and parity was strongly scum-sided. Which made the game unstable and therefore, in my opinion, unbalanced.

Now, was this game winnable for either alignment? Absolutely. Town play was bad in this game, and that also includes myself. Scum play ranged from moderately good to very good. Did the mafia team deserve to win? Absolutely.

But, given the fact that the game was unbalanced, it took one less mistake for town to lose the game than usual and scums had an easier job manipulating the vote count. While townies had power concentrated in individuals, scum had power concentrated in their numbers and it was, ultimately, thanks to their numbers that they won.

I absolutely don't think this game was a waste of time. But I don't think this game can be compared to other Mini games I've played either. It was a different experience.

Congratulations to the scum team.

[JacksonVirgo]

Secondly, JV, you were in the right and I was in the wrong here. Sorry for that.

Don't apologies lol, I was in the game and had no clue if my reads were actually right or not. You had no reason to follow me just for the sake of me being ultimately right.

[JacksonVirgo]

I absolutely don't think this game was a waste of time. But I don't think this game can be compared to other Mini games I've played either. It was a different experience.

It definitely wasn't. I had fun :)