Merchant's Daughter [Endgame]

Vedith
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Post Post #3475  (ISO)  » Mon Feb 11, 2019 12:54 pm

Nothing to add
I claim scum \o/

Nancy Drew 39
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Post Post #3476  (ISO)  » Mon Feb 11, 2019 12:55 pm

In post 3418, Dannflor wrote:Hi, I can't sleep, so I'm back, but I got my break. I'll also be busy all day tomorrow so wanted to get one last check in before I'm gone for potentially 24 hours. (also relatively busy most of the week)

Spoiler: pvt and dt
So, PvT is town. I don't see any other explanation.

In post 3233, PvtUrist wrote:Right now I'm more worried about what I can learn from the game, rather than what I can do for town here. Regardless of Dann's actual allignment, I've royally screwed myself with my tunnel in a place where I'm not feeling the ability to push it (first time for this to appear), as well as the ability to read the game without tilt or bias.

I'd avocate for a Dann flip, but it's much more for my selfish, ego related reasons than what's potentially best for the game.

Just haven't been knowing how to interact or progress with the game for the past few days.

This alone makes me feel somewhat better. It circles back to what was said before about how scum has basically no motivation to put themselves in this position or 1v1 me at this stage of the game. This post outlines that... and it's genuine. I really believe that Pvt really believes I am scum, and is unable to see past that to the the rest of the game. @Pvt, I want to ask you, if you pretend I flip town, who do you think is scum? It's kinda okay if you can't answer that though, I don't expect you to. I fully believe you just can't see past me in this game. While unfortunate, it definitely makes you town.

In post 3216, DoubtingThomas wrote:didnt read Pvt's iso at all, but in general

scums do not want to be too dense with their behavior in the thread. when confronted, they are likely to cooperate, unless they are lika a pretty experienced scum if you know what i mean i think when i checked his post count it wasn't too many posts

idk if there are people better at reading him and they read him town and if his 'attitude' is a main reason you scum read him, chances are, he's just a stubborn town who is just being a stick up his butt because they cant handle being 'wrongly' scum read (cough cough nancy cough cough)

This too, simultaneously makes me feel good about both Thomas and PvT. I'll admit I've been very frustrated with not being able to engage with Pvt, but this logic of "scums do not want to be too dense with their behavior" is absolutely correct. And is much more sense than whatever emotions I was feeling.

As far as DT, I really like the logic here and it's consistent with other good towny thoughts he's had:

In post 1265, DoubtingThomas wrote:it's just gut tone read. they seem to have "i dont care about what others think" and expresses opinion in a bold way

of course, scums also try to manipulate this kinda tone, but the genuinity is different slightly, imo, when they are scum and town

In post 1814, DoubtingThomas wrote:scums are afraid to admit this and publicly announce it

I like this sort of logic a lot and I think reads based on it is a lot more likely to be driven from a town place than not. It's not surface level and it's the type of logic I mindmeld with a lot. Additionally, I think DT is town for similar reasons I strongly townread Taly. A Town vs. Town 1v1 between me and PvT is good for scum. Straight up. Pvt likely gets lynched at some point and enough paranoia is sewn about me that maybe I can get lynched later. Town vs. Town 1v1s are ALWAYS good for scum and that's what I strongly believe this is now. DT stepping in to try and explain why my read on PvT may be wrong and not stoking the flames is a very town motivated move.

While I'm catching up on the most recent pages, I can also say Pvt is town for the same reasons, for this:

In post 3382, PvtUrist wrote:I'm feeling one/both of you are missing eachothers points here

Not as strong as what Taly or DT did of course, but combined with all the other stuff, also makes me feel good about Pvt. Anyways, moving on.

Pvt's case on me is... I mean, I believe he thinks it means I'm scum. And I'll admit my entrance was not the best or leastways not the most alignment indicative. But, Pvt, I do see you conf biasing and I think you're just straight up avoiding my later play? By conf biasing I mean the way you interpret my #211 to be complaining about the state of the game when I'm responding to being called out for my NAI mech talk (which is fair) by pointing out that no one has done much of anything AI. This is fluffy game. More egregious is your interpretation of my #339? You're trying to imply I flipflopped on my Nancy read but where are you getting that I implied I didn't scumread Nancy in my #339? I very clearly did at that point.

I think if you continued to read my play throughout the game with an unbiased eye you would come to different conclusions too. I have a very transparent playstyle where I do go into several reads and explain why I have them. And I would hope people that think I'm scummy would point out where that is in my thought processes, if things seem contrived or if my logic is agenda driven. I've been actively trying to advance this game for a while, and my NAI entrance doesn't change that.

However, I don't expect to change your mind. I don't think I will, unfortunately. You've changed mine though, you're very town. + Pink Ball's meta case finally makes sense to me.


====================

Spoiler: reads ig
Okay, one last reads list and stuff as I gather my thoughts since I'll be busy this coming week and my activity will probably be lower until the pre-dance deadline. I don't think posting full lists is as dangerous anymore considering we have the main pairings figured out and the others are coming together.

The reads in the individual lines aren't in any particualar order

Confident Town: Taly, Nancy, Pvturist
Town: DoubtingThomas, Krazy, Ankamius, RadiantCowbells, Dr Worm, Pink Ball
Prolly Town: Firebringer, Vedith, TheBrie
=====
Null: Gamma, Moment
=====
maybe scum?: Something_Smart (this is a volatile read)
Prolly Scum: Allomancer

Actually, writing it at, my pool for scum is pretty low. But I'm okay with that, I feel like I have good reasons to town read the people I town read. The gamestate is still problematic because I think things would feel different if scum were actually in trouble, but maybe I'm wrong. Almost wrote out several paragraphs on that topic but realized it was useless to talk about now and we should probably just cross that bridge when we come to it. Firebringer is maybe my least sure town read, but I think that's only because it's been a while since I've seen him do anything and I've mostly been trusting people that can read him/his style well.

After working through my PvT read logically, I really really don't see how he can be scum beyond some WIFOM arguments. But even the WIFOM arguments don't make sense.

So with that, my personal ideal pairs would probably be TheBrie/Doubting_Thomas or TheBrie/Pvturist as a strong town pair. Than whichever gent of those two doesn't go with Brie should go with the most town out of Gamma/Moment/Something_Smart. I'm including S_S because my read on him keeps oscillating every time I look at his ISO and I think he could potentially be a town read depending on what he does going forward. The remaining two can pair, that last one will probably be the first lynch.

Still don't think Allo should progress


I don’t think scum!you ever townreads Urist here.

Wrt to SS, I’m actually having trouble parsing their game from either a scum or town perspective. I think we should be careful about possibly mislynching his slot.

Thing with Nancy is we just need to tread carefully because if you slip up around her as scum she notices and will tear your spine out and slap you to death with it.

(I'm slightly scared of Nancy)
~ the worst

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Post Post #3477  (ISO)  » Mon Feb 11, 2019 12:57 pm

In post 3422, Taly wrote:Krazy, we're not forcing anything until it's discussed between both us and the public thread.

A reason you have my coins is because you seemed less quick to vote based on how you strategize and approach this game/setup.

Don't let emotions rule you. ^_^


I would feel better if you could keep the coins, tbh. Krazy should stop playing emotionally.

Thing with Nancy is we just need to tread carefully because if you slip up around her as scum she notices and will tear your spine out and slap you to death with it.

(I'm slightly scared of Nancy)
~ the worst

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Post Post #3478  (ISO)  » Mon Feb 11, 2019 12:58 pm

In post 3424, Taly wrote:OK actually, that 2 second pity part is over.

Krazy - maintain homestasis and chill <3 <3 <3

OK I need to prepare for Math tutoring session in 45 minutes so bye

*final thought; now is a SHITTY time to discuss which pairings are endgame-material because that tells scum how to play :D*


+1

Thing with Nancy is we just need to tread carefully because if you slip up around her as scum she notices and will tear your spine out and slap you to death with it.

(I'm slightly scared of Nancy)
~ the worst

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Post Post #3479  (ISO)  » Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:00 pm

In post 3425, Ankamius wrote:
In post 3420, Taly wrote:
In post 3281, Moment wrote:I would, however, like to know in advance who SS is pairing with. I think he's town, but if people are going to lynch him anyways I would like him paired with a scummier Gent.


If you think S_S is town, then why are you OK with a lynch there?

also I'm skimming right now, but I'm a bit sad that people are continuing to say Me+Krazy is a bad pairing when I gave multiple opportunities for several people to case a reason, AND an alternative. I also outlined my reasoning for the pairing, and I don't think people have really engaged with that as much as they should, if they feel this doubtful.

I don't think people are being fair here. :(


Tbf the situation changed pretty drastically in the last 12 or so hours


Like wtf got into Krazy?

His recent posts are kind of freaking me out a bit.

Thing with Nancy is we just need to tread carefully because if you slip up around her as scum she notices and will tear your spine out and slap you to death with it.

(I'm slightly scared of Nancy)
~ the worst

RadiantCowbells
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Post Post #3480  (ISO)  » Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:00 pm

In post 3474, DoubtingThomas wrote:RC solving really well i think


I was solving really well in our last game and you lynched me for it so not exactly townreading this
If you're Macho and someone tries to rolestop you, you never realise you're being targeted for a kill, so your machismo never gets challenged

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Post Post #3481  (ISO)  » Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:01 pm

In post 3479, Nancy Drew 39 wrote:
In post 3425, Ankamius wrote:
In post 3420, Taly wrote:
In post 3281, Moment wrote:I would, however, like to know in advance who SS is pairing with. I think he's town, but if people are going to lynch him anyways I would like him paired with a scummier Gent.


If you think S_S is town, then why are you OK with a lynch there?

also I'm skimming right now, but I'm a bit sad that people are continuing to say Me+Krazy is a bad pairing when I gave multiple opportunities for several people to case a reason, AND an alternative. I also outlined my reasoning for the pairing, and I don't think people have really engaged with that as much as they should, if they feel this doubtful.

I don't think people are being fair here. :(


Tbf the situation changed pretty drastically in the last 12 or so hours


Like wtf got into Krazy?

His recent posts are kind of freaking me out a bit.


I think there's a decent possibility that he's scum who is freaking out because the game went from easy to near impossible when his successful Taly pocket no longer became a sure win condition

On the other hand townies have freaked out at me plenty in similar situations so... I'm kinda just going to NAI it
If you're Macho and someone tries to rolestop you, you never realise you're being targeted for a kill, so your machismo never gets challenged

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Post Post #3482  (ISO)  » Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:03 pm

In post 3480, RadiantCowbells wrote:
In post 3474, DoubtingThomas wrote:RC solving really well i think


I was solving really well in our last game and you lynched me for it so not exactly townreading this


you were and i town read you pretty clearly until well it just became you-phighter thunderdome

honestly that's just like not my fault

both of you refused to work with each other and both of you were town like i was worried about

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Post Post #3483  (ISO)  » Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:03 pm

I think that SS moment is town and a potential endgame pair fmpov

I can't support brie post reread I think I knee jerk removed her from the lynchpool for bad reasons
If you're Macho and someone tries to rolestop you, you never realise you're being targeted for a kill, so your machismo never gets challenged

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Post Post #3484  (ISO)  » Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:04 pm

In post 3482, DoubtingThomas wrote:
In post 3480, RadiantCowbells wrote:
In post 3474, DoubtingThomas wrote:RC solving really well i think


I was solving really well in our last game and you lynched me for it so not exactly townreading this


you were and i town read you pretty clearly until well it just became you-phighter thunderdome

honestly that's just like not my fault

both of you refused to work with each other and both of you were town like i was worried about


I scumread someone who

Tried to make me the counterwagon to dueling SvS wagons

And tried to CFD obvtown at eod with dueling SvS wagons

And tried to speedlynch me at the start of the next day

Phighter had to be lynched. I didn't.
If you're Macho and someone tries to rolestop you, you never realise you're being targeted for a kill, so your machismo never gets challenged

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Post Post #3485  (ISO)  » Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:06 pm

here we go again
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Nancy Drew 39
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Post Post #3486  (ISO)  » Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:06 pm

In post 3427, Taly wrote:
In post 3425, Ankamius wrote:
In post 3420, Taly wrote:
In post 3281, Moment wrote:I would, however, like to know in advance who SS is pairing with. I think he's town, but if people are going to lynch him anyways I would like him paired with a scummier Gent.


If you think S_S is town, then why are you OK with a lynch there?

also I'm skimming right now, but I'm a bit sad that people are continuing to say Me+Krazy is a bad pairing when I gave multiple opportunities for several people to case a reason, AND an alternative. I also outlined my reasoning for the pairing, and I don't think people have really engaged with that as much as they should, if they feel this doubtful.

I don't think people are being fair here. :(



Tbf the situation changed pretty drastically in the last 12 or so hours


If it's this drastic coincidentally after the pair is made then I already distrust it, and am hoping you can fill me in because Ive been asleep or doing college work for the majority of these hours.

Casting uncertainty on pairs right now presents many problems for town over something that cannot be changed or dealt with this game phase.

Now, do you agree with my assessment that DT and TheBrie are most likely town of their pools?



Why DT over moment? Yeah, starting to think Ank may have been right. But then again, I’ve never seen moment scum. @moment, do you have a scumgame, I could checkout? Thanks.

Thing with Nancy is we just need to tread carefully because if you slip up around her as scum she notices and will tear your spine out and slap you to death with it.

(I'm slightly scared of Nancy)
~ the worst

RadiantCowbells
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Post Post #3487  (ISO)  » Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:07 pm

Moment is villa af
If you're Macho and someone tries to rolestop you, you never realise you're being targeted for a kill, so your machismo never gets challenged

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Post Post #3488  (ISO)  » Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:09 pm

In post 3430, Taly wrote:Explain the Moment townread?

Please work with me Ank. I'm getting worked up right now. :/

In post 3436, DoubtingThomas wrote:i kinda skimmed

poeple scum read me, why? maybe i can clarify. all ive seen really is 'i cant process where his reads are coming from' which is funny because as scum i am way more thorough and logical with my reads :/

i think i am at the point where i'd rather just out in pre dance if i dont get brie maybe

we'll see how SS and gamma posts


Why not Gamma?

Although, maybe moment should be paired with the 6 coin lady?

Thing with Nancy is we just need to tread carefully because if you slip up around her as scum she notices and will tear your spine out and slap you to death with it.

(I'm slightly scared of Nancy)
~ the worst

Nancy Drew 39
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Post Post #3489  (ISO)  » Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:10 pm

In post 3487, RadiantCowbells wrote:Moment is villa af


Yeah, I’m liking her most recent posts.

Thing with Nancy is we just need to tread carefully because if you slip up around her as scum she notices and will tear your spine out and slap you to death with it.

(I'm slightly scared of Nancy)
~ the worst

Nancy Drew 39
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Post Post #3490  (ISO)  » Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:12 pm

In post 3483, RadiantCowbells wrote:I think that SS moment is town and a potential endgame pair fmpov

I can't support brie post reread I think I knee jerk removed her from the lynchpool for bad reasons


Really? I think Brie seems pretty townie.

Thing with Nancy is we just need to tread carefully because if you slip up around her as scum she notices and will tear your spine out and slap you to death with it.

(I'm slightly scared of Nancy)
~ the worst

Nancy Drew 39
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Post Post #3491  (ISO)  » Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:14 pm

In post 3490, Nancy Drew 39 wrote:
In post 3483, RadiantCowbells wrote:I think that SS moment is town and a potential endgame pair fmpov

I can't support brie post reread I think I knee jerk removed her from the lynchpool for bad reasons


Really? I think Brie seems pretty townie.


Like her opening didn’t impress me too much but since then, she’s been sounding better?

Thing with Nancy is we just need to tread carefully because if you slip up around her as scum she notices and will tear your spine out and slap you to death with it.

(I'm slightly scared of Nancy)
~ the worst

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Post Post #3492  (ISO)  » Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:18 pm

I think it's maybe vedith/TheBrie as 2 wolves
If you're Macho and someone tries to rolestop you, you never realise you're being targeted for a kill, so your machismo never gets challenged

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Post Post #3493  (ISO)  » Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:19 pm

So do I
I claim scum \o/

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Post Post #3494  (ISO)  » Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:19 pm

Should I leave the dance before Vedith uses my coins?
"You are the Joker of mafia players" - Oversoul

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Post Post #3495  (ISO)  » Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:19 pm

I think that's a non bad idea
If you're Macho and someone tries to rolestop you, you never realise you're being targeted for a kill, so your machismo never gets challenged

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Post Post #3496  (ISO)  » Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:20 pm

Would make sense
I claim scum \o/

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Post Post #3497  (ISO)  » Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:21 pm

wait what exactly does the coins do? Do they make a person confirmed town or do they flip them. The setup doesn't make this clear
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Post Post #3498  (ISO)  » Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:23 pm

ohhh its a vote weighting.
so vedith has the most vote power.

not like emergency situation unless vedith can defacto lynch someone.
"You are the Joker of mafia players" - Oversoul

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Post Post #3499  (ISO)  » Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:23 pm

LMFAO vedith's posting style matches his avi so so well it's fucking making me crack up

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