Merchant's Daughter [Endgame]

[Vedith]

Nothing to add

[Nancy Drew 39]

Hi, I can't sleep, so I'm back, but I got my break. I'll also be busy all day tomorrow so wanted to get one last check in before I'm gone for potentially 24 hours. (also relatively busy most of the week)

Spoiler: pvt and dt

So, PvT is town. I don't see any other explanation.

Right now I'm more worried about what I can learn from the game, rather than what I can do for town here. Regardless of Dann's actual allignment, I've royally screwed myself with my tunnel in a place where I'm not feeling the ability to push it (first time for this to appear), as well as the ability to read the game without tilt or bias.

I'd avocate for a Dann flip, but it's much more for my selfish, ego related reasons than what's potentially best for the game.

Just haven't been knowing how to interact or progress with the game for the past few days.

This alone makes me feel somewhat better. It circles back to what was said before about how scum has basically no motivation to put themselves in this position or 1v1 me at this stage of the game. This post outlines that... and it's genuine. I really believe that Pvt really believes I am scum, and is unable to see past that to the the rest of the game. @Pvt, I want to ask you, if you pretend I flip town, who do you think is scum? It's kinda okay if you can't answer that though, I don't expect you to. I fully believe you just can't see past me in this game. While unfortunate, it definitely makes you town.

didnt read Pvt's iso at all, but in general

scums do not want to be too dense with their behavior in the thread. when confronted, they are likely to cooperate, unless they are lika a pretty experienced scum if you know what i mean i think when i checked his post count it wasn't too many posts

idk if there are people better at reading him and they read him town and if his 'attitude' is a main reason you scum read him, chances are, he's just a stubborn town who is just being a stick up his butt because they cant handle being 'wrongly' scum read (cough cough nancy cough cough)

This too, simultaneously makes me feel good about both Thomas and PvT. I'll admit I've been very frustrated with not being able to engage with Pvt, but this logic of "scums do not want to be too dense with their behavior" is absolutely correct. And is much more sense than whatever emotions I was feeling.

As far as DT, I really like the logic here and it's consistent with other good towny thoughts he's had:

it's just gut tone read. they seem to have "i dont care about what others think" and expresses opinion in a bold way

of course, scums also try to manipulate this kinda tone, but the genuinity is different slightly, imo, when they are scum and town

scums are afraid to admit this and publicly announce it

I like this sort of logic a lot and I think reads based on it is a lot more likely to be driven from a town place than not. It's not surface level and it's the type of logic I mindmeld with a lot. Additionally, I think DT is town for similar reasons I strongly townread Taly. A Town vs. Town 1v1 between me and PvT is good for scum. Straight up. Pvt likely gets lynched at some point and enough paranoia is sewn about me that maybe I can get lynched later. Town vs. Town 1v1s are ALWAYS good for scum and that's what I strongly believe this is now. DT stepping in to try and explain why my read on PvT may be wrong and not stoking the flames is a very town motivated move.

While I'm catching up on the most recent pages, I can also say Pvt is town for the same reasons, for this:

I'm feeling one/both of you are missing eachothers points here

Not as strong as what Taly or DT did of course, but combined with all the other stuff, also makes me feel good about Pvt. Anyways, moving on.

Pvt's case on me is... I mean, I believe he thinks it means I'm scum. And I'll admit my entrance was not the best or leastways not the most alignment indicative. But, Pvt, I do see you conf biasing and I think you're just straight up avoiding my later play? By conf biasing I mean the way you interpret my #211 to be complaining about the state of the game when I'm responding to being called out for my NAI mech talk (which is fair) by pointing out that no one has done much of anything AI. This is fluffy game. More egregious is your interpretation of my #339? You're trying to imply I flipflopped on my Nancy read but where are you getting that I implied I didn't scumread Nancy in my #339? I very clearly did at that point.

I think if you continued to read my play throughout the game with an unbiased eye you would come to different conclusions too. I have a very transparent playstyle where I do go into several reads and explain why I have them. And I would hope people that think I'm scummy would point out where that is in my thought processes, if things seem contrived or if my logic is agenda driven. I've been actively trying to advance this game for a while, and my NAI entrance doesn't change that.

However, I don't expect to change your mind. I don't think I will, unfortunately. You've changed mine though, you're very town. + Pink Ball's meta case finally makes sense to me.

====================

Spoiler: reads ig

Okay, one last reads list and stuff as I gather my thoughts since I'll be busy this coming week and my activity will probably be lower until the pre-dance deadline. I don't think posting full lists is as dangerous anymore considering we have the main pairings figured out and the others are coming together.

The reads in the individual lines aren't in any particualar order

Confident Town: Taly, Nancy, Pvturist
Town: DoubtingThomas, Krazy, Ankamius, RadiantCowbells, Dr Worm, Pink Ball
Prolly Town: Firebringer, Vedith, TheBrie
=====
Null: Gamma, Moment
=====
maybe scum?: Something_Smart (this is a volatile read)
Prolly Scum: Allomancer

Actually, writing it at, my pool for scum is pretty low. But I'm okay with that, I feel like I have good reasons to town read the people I town read. The gamestate is still problematic because I think things would feel different if scum were actually in trouble, but maybe I'm wrong. Almost wrote out several paragraphs on that topic but realized it was useless to talk about now and we should probably just cross that bridge when we come to it. Firebringer is maybe my least sure town read, but I think that's only because it's been a while since I've seen him do anything and I've mostly been trusting people that can read him/his style well.

After working through my PvT read logically, I really really don't see how he can be scum beyond some WIFOM arguments. But even the WIFOM arguments don't make sense.

So with that, my personal ideal pairs would probably be TheBrie/Doubting_Thomas or TheBrie/Pvturist as a strong town pair. Than whichever gent of those two doesn't go with Brie should go with the most town out of Gamma/Moment/Something_Smart. I'm including S_S because my read on him keeps oscillating every time I look at his ISO and I think he could potentially be a town read depending on what he does going forward. The remaining two can pair, that last one will probably be the first lynch.

Still don't think Allo should progress

I don’t think scum!you ever townreads Urist here.

Wrt to SS, I’m actually having trouble parsing their game from either a scum or town perspective. I think we should be careful about possibly mislynching his slot.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Krazy, we're not forcing anything until it's discussed between both us and the public thread.

A reason you have my coins is because you seemed less quick to vote based on how you strategize and approach this game/setup.

Don't let emotions rule you. ^_^

I would feel better if you could keep the coins, tbh. Krazy should stop playing emotionally.

[Nancy Drew 39]

OK actually, that 2 second pity part is over.

Krazy - maintain homestasis and chill <3 <3 <3

OK I need to prepare for Math tutoring session in 45 minutes so bye

*final thought; now is a SHITTY time to discuss which pairings are endgame-material because that tells scum how to play *

+1

[Nancy Drew 39]

I would, however, like to know in advance who SS is pairing with. I think he's town, but if people are going to lynch him anyways I would like him paired with a scummier Gent.

If you think S_S is town, then why are you OK with a lynch there?

also I'm skimming right now, but I'm a bit sad that people are continuing to say Me+Krazy is a bad pairing when I gave multiple opportunities for several people to case a reason, AND an alternative. I also outlined my reasoning for the pairing, and I don't think people have really engaged with that as much as they should, if they feel this doubtful.

I don't think people are being fair here.

Tbf the situation changed pretty drastically in the last 12 or so hours

Like wtf got into Krazy?

His recent posts are kind of freaking me out a bit.

[RadiantCowbells]

RC solving really well i think

I was solving really well in our last game and you lynched me for it so not exactly townreading this

[RadiantCowbells]

I would, however, like to know in advance who SS is pairing with. I think he's town, but if people are going to lynch him anyways I would like him paired with a scummier Gent.

If you think S_S is town, then why are you OK with a lynch there?

also I'm skimming right now, but I'm a bit sad that people are continuing to say Me+Krazy is a bad pairing when I gave multiple opportunities for several people to case a reason, AND an alternative. I also outlined my reasoning for the pairing, and I don't think people have really engaged with that as much as they should, if they feel this doubtful.

I don't think people are being fair here.

Tbf the situation changed pretty drastically in the last 12 or so hours

Like wtf got into Krazy?

His recent posts are kind of freaking me out a bit.

I think there's a decent possibility that he's scum who is freaking out because the game went from easy to near impossible when his successful Taly pocket no longer became a sure win condition

On the other hand townies have freaked out at me plenty in similar situations so... I'm kinda just going to NAI it

[DoubtingThomas]

RC solving really well i think

I was solving really well in our last game and you lynched me for it so not exactly townreading this

you were and i town read you pretty clearly until well it just became you-phighter thunderdome

honestly that's just like not my fault

both of you refused to work with each other and both of you were town like i was worried about

[RadiantCowbells]

I think that SS moment is town and a potential endgame pair fmpov

I can't support brie post reread I think I knee jerk removed her from the lynchpool for bad reasons

[RadiantCowbells]

RC solving really well i think

I was solving really well in our last game and you lynched me for it so not exactly townreading this

you were and i town read you pretty clearly until well it just became you-phighter thunderdome

honestly that's just like not my fault

both of you refused to work with each other and both of you were town like i was worried about

I scumread someone who

Tried to make me the counterwagon to dueling SvS wagons

And tried to CFD obvtown at eod with dueling SvS wagons

And tried to speedlynch me at the start of the next day

Phighter had to be lynched. I didn't.

[Firebringer]

here we go again

[Nancy Drew 39]

I would, however, like to know in advance who SS is pairing with. I think he's town, but if people are going to lynch him anyways I would like him paired with a scummier Gent.

If you think S_S is town, then why are you OK with a lynch there?

also I'm skimming right now, but I'm a bit sad that people are continuing to say Me+Krazy is a bad pairing when I gave multiple opportunities for several people to case a reason, AND an alternative. I also outlined my reasoning for the pairing, and I don't think people have really engaged with that as much as they should, if they feel this doubtful.

I don't think people are being fair here.

Tbf the situation changed pretty drastically in the last 12 or so hours

If it's this drastic coincidentally after the pair is made then I already distrust it, and am hoping you can fill me in because Ive been asleep or doing college work for the majority of these hours.

Casting uncertainty on pairs right now presents many problems for town over something that cannot be changed or dealt with this game phase.

Now, do you agree with my assessment that DT and TheBrie are most likely town of their pools?

Why DT over moment? Yeah, starting to think Ank may have been right. But then again, I’ve never seen moment scum. @moment, do you have a scumgame, I could checkout? Thanks.

[RadiantCowbells]

Moment is villa af

[Nancy Drew 39]

Explain the Moment townread?

Please work with me Ank. I'm getting worked up right now. :/

i kinda skimmed

poeple scum read me, why? maybe i can clarify. all ive seen really is 'i cant process where his reads are coming from' which is funny because as scum i am way more thorough and logical with my reads :/

i think i am at the point where i'd rather just out in pre dance if i dont get brie maybe

we'll see how SS and gamma posts

Why not Gamma?

Although, maybe moment should be paired with the 6 coin lady?

[Nancy Drew 39]

Moment is villa af

Yeah, I’m liking her most recent posts.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I think that SS moment is town and a potential endgame pair fmpov

I can't support brie post reread I think I knee jerk removed her from the lynchpool for bad reasons

Really? I think Brie seems pretty townie.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I think that SS moment is town and a potential endgame pair fmpov

I can't support brie post reread I think I knee jerk removed her from the lynchpool for bad reasons

Really? I think Brie seems pretty townie.

Like her opening didn’t impress me too much but since then, she’s been sounding better?

[RadiantCowbells]

I think it's maybe vedith/TheBrie as 2 wolves

[Vedith]

So do I

[Firebringer]

Should I leave the dance before Vedith uses my coins?

[RadiantCowbells]

I think that's a non bad idea

[Vedith]

Would make sense

[Firebringer]

wait what exactly does the coins do? Do they make a person confirmed town or do they flip them. The setup doesn't make this clear

[Firebringer]

ohhh its a vote weighting.
so vedith has the most vote power.

not like emergency situation unless vedith can defacto lynch someone.

[DoubtingThomas]

LMFAO vedith's posting style matches his avi so so well it's fucking making me crack up