Datisi's Café [game over!]

[Datisi]

vote count 4.02

with 12 votes in play, it takes 7 to make a decision. day 4 ends in (expired on 2022-10-14 01:15:00).

firing

furtiveglance [2]:

mastina, Dannflor

fireisredsir [2]:

Malakittens, Uncrowned

Dannflor [1]:

furtiveglance

Something_Smart [1]:

PenguinPower

not voting [6]:

Andresvmb, jjh927, Klick, Something_Smart, Ydrasse, fireisredsir

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▶ ❚❚ ────────────────●──────────────  2:19 / 4:02

[Andresvmb]

@Datisi, back tonight.

[fireisredsir]

I need to heavily reconsider fireisredsir as potential scum, I think.

I think I can see how he developed into a townread for me naturally in a way that made me not want to reconsider. But I've started on his ISO and not only does it not read as towny in the way I originally hard townread him early, but he explicitly says in 391 that he thinks the same way I do in terms of what is AI/what he'd normally do as scum. My most used sorting tool is 'what does this person want to achieve with their posts, is their primary goal getting townread or some other goal more closely aligning with a town win condition'. And fire reveals there that he plays at a level where he'd be aware and able to mask his intentions adequately enough to produce a natural townread from me as scum.

I'll keep reading when I get a moment tomorrow (need to sleep now), but that's where I'm expecting to vote. Dannflor doesn't feel like a correct scumread. Ydrasse has S_S in the correct category. I think jjh actually has a pretty decent chance of being scum, but not with like actual confidence, and I'd like to hear more details about mastina's townread there and see if it's translatable at all to reasoning I'd agree with.

But so far with a game's worth of context on fire's play, I'm not seeing town at all on an altogether read-through of the slot like I did when just reading the game as it happened.

i don't really get this, it seems like... super shallow reasoning? what about my play this game looks like it was meant to generate townreads?

like, your core point here is that me suspecting someone for looking like they're playing to get townread (and comparing it to how i play scum) made you think i was capable of doing that

do you... just have a baseline assumption that people in general aren't?

idk it just seems like a kinda opportunistic reassessment and i don't really believe that this only occurred to you now

[fireisredsir]

ig you did say you reread and weren't feeling the same vibe as you did originally so maybe thats fair

tbh if you had just said that i probably wouldn't take issue with it, so maybe im getting too caught up on that one bit

but it just feels overjustified in a way that doesn't actually really justify anything, which feels kinda off to me

[fireisredsir]

anyway maybe complacency is bad and all but i feel like with 2 scum dead already and most likely 2 remaining, this is probably just a win? i don't really mind being in the poe, i think its reasonable enough

mastina is probably just town

i think rn i mostly want to look at some people that ive just kinda taken for granted as town and make sure i still feel okay about that, will tackle that later today

[furtiveglance]

anyway maybe complacency is bad and all but i feel like with 2 scum dead already and most likely 2 remaining, this is probably just a win? i don't really mind being in the poe,

i think its reasonable enough

mastina is probably just town

i think rn i mostly want to look at some people that ive just kinda taken for granted as town and make sure i still feel okay about that, will tackle that later today

Do you think your claim with the repeat motion detect/track is sus?

[PenguinPower]

wait, what was fire's claim again?

[fireisredsir]

not really, my understanding of the narrative is that if i were scum then i knew (due to being ascetic or rolestopped or whatever) that mastina had no result on me and thats why i claimed what i did

the flaw in that is that if i was actually scum i think i would like almost always just claim vt or something and play dumb and avoid having to deal with any mechanical mess

but most people left in this game wouldn't necessarily know that about me, and looking at it objectively i can understand why it might look convenient or whatever

i also haven't exactly been super engaged with this game so far so on play i don't think i should necessarily be townread. i was kinda back and forth on titus iirc which probably doesn't look great in hindsight

i don't think my repeated check on mastina is sus at all tho bc i think that was literally the best play i had available. idk if that was a major point of suspicion for anyone anymore but ig if it is for people then id like to hear why

[fireisredsir]

wait, what was fire's claim again?

i check if they successfully carried out a night action

[PenguinPower]

oh yeah - your power requirement seems off for that

[fireisredsir]

idk take it up with datisi

[PenguinPower]

i mean - if it's true i will be asking questions, but your production claim is almost on par with flipped doc and jk with a weaker ability

[fireisredsir]

im sure if nero had claimed doctor at 30% people would have thought that seemed off. seems way low to me

[PenguinPower]

yeah - but those are flipped now so...confirmed...and the doc and jk make sense.

[fireisredsir]

when i drew the role my thought was that the power was mostly useful for checking if claims are true, thats why i was trying to use it that way

but it also can get p powerful later bc with 1 scum left a non-action result when there's a scum kill is a clear. luke also brought up that even with 2 or 3 left a non-action result can be v meaningful due to the no multitasking

if anything id think it should scale up faster than it does

[PenguinPower]

Cool cool

Interesting mastina isn’t voting you though.

[PenguinPower]

VOTE: fire

[Ydrasse]

why is uncrowned town this game btw

[Ydrasse]

His case on me and Titus is "A-HA! I can use these things to push these slots as scum". Having reads that he believes are good to push, and then finding things that he believes make that push believable.

His cases as town are more "A-HA! I have found a slot that looks like scum for this".

so it's a tonal read, mostly?

I don't see the benefit in outing my exact process on a scum who's already dead.

because it looks a little fabricated considering the differences between his town page 1 vote and his scum page 1 vote are awfully minimal?

these reads feel kinda convenient

do you have any actual thoughts on: roden, mastina, titus, luke

it can wait till later if you don't wanna post big but yeah, like i said, those names you've all listed feel v convenient and i highly doubt we have all scum in the less active half of the game

VOTE: Malakittens

VOTE: Roden

cheeky L-1

VOTE: S_S

I'd made some points about Uncrowned earlier when prompted by Andres and it never really got a response, instead it got buried by all the focus on me and my role and trying to "gotcha" me. They were insistent on trying to get me to play, but once my activity and content sky rocketed they had nothing to say and instead just blankly voted me. Why ask me to do more if you had no intention of engaging with me? Why didn't they or anyone else have anything to say about my read?

What really stands out is that Uncrowned criticized my posts D1 for being too focused on mech despite only making two mech-focused posts. But then today there has been pages upon pages dedicated only to discussing mech and voting people based on mech. Yet Uncrowned has had nothing to say about it, and instead supported a wagon based on mech.

bro

if i'm not mistaken, this first part is either a bold faced lie or you just didn't see my response to you

i was the last one to respond in our 'interaction' and you said nothing and i'm pretty sure i'll be able to find it and quote it after this

also i criticised multiple d1 mech talk people because i don't think it really gets us anywhere. d2 the mech talk has been what, about claims? that's a lot more reasonable given game state and doesn't just seem like scum trying to find something to do on d1. context matters and you're ignoring it

12 is rvs and the others were you defending yourself which was also what I referenced in my original post about you

and 432 had nothing inherently wrong with it it's just you went back to referring to something about setup which I found funny

That's a simplified and not really accurate summary of those posts. You claimed all I talked about was mech, which is factually wrong. It's ok to say you just misremembered my posts.

You seemed to imply 432 had something wrong with it, you said I "proved you right" and you still seem to want to run me up. Talk to me about it.

you said this and then in post 547 i said

in my original post I said mech or defending yourself. that qualifies under both. simplified, sure. but it's what you did.

and in the callout post I said what I just said above, and then 432 mentioned setup balance as your next post. there's not really much to "run up" it literally just looked like you were avoiding giving proper reads in favour of talking about setup shit which I think is +scum

if you were at work and just catching up then there's nor really much to discuss and I will have to judge you off of what you've done since then though I will maintain the first posting to me is still +scum

maybe it's because I'm not one to care for mech talk but if the majority of your posting is still on the topic of mech (even up to 432) I'll 9 times outta 10 be more inclined to think you're scummy. does that make sense?

and then look at my very next post 548

you made no reply and didn't interact with me at all until D2

so are you just making stuff up to appear like my read on you is fake or...? because that was a poor attempt lmao

so what really happened is you just ignored my posting after attempts to "engage" with you, but now expect me to engage with you when you're in the middle of claim shit with other slots that i frankly don't care about because you obviously didn't have the intent to engage in the first place when i was giving you questions on shit that wasn't mech based, which i have repeatedly stated i don't care for

no misrepping in my neighbourhood tyvm

12 is rvs and the others were you defending yourself which was also what I referenced in my original post about you

and 432 had nothing inherently wrong with it it's just you went back to referring to something about setup which I found funny

That's a simplified and not really accurate summary of those posts. You claimed all I talked about was mech, which is factually wrong. It's ok to say you just misremembered my posts.

You seemed to imply 432 had something wrong with it, you said I "proved you right" and you still seem to want to run me up. Talk to me about it.

Wow, that's really annoying. I targeted Peta last night.

though in fairness you made zero posts between these two, though again i find this difficult to believe that you wouldn't have at least checked to catch up and my posting replying to you was just a few posts after so... yeah, why lie my guy

You’re using the NK to justify your vote, which is always suspect (it’s like you haven’t even considered that Scum make kills to confuse / frame the Town). But the single most important way you’re pointing to for identifying Scum in the game from day play conflicts directly with that vote. The fact that you’re not even acknowledging that is bizarre.

I'm voting Titus because it's a read on how she plays the game as scum. She kills threats and stays low key. I can scum read her independently of how I think the scum team played around Ircher's slip. If you think that's a scummy thought process then you're gonna have to explain why because I don't get it.

I didn’t call it Scummy I called it odd.

Imagine I said that I think Scum went out of their way to defend Ircher. And then I voted Titus. And when you asked me why, I made the NK argument you made. I would fully expect for you to ask me well, Titus actively attacked Ircher the entire time. Doesn’t that give you pause? Wouldn’t that contradict what you’re saying is the main reason to suspect someone to be Scum? That’s more where I’m coming from. Not being consistent with your thought process isn’t Scum indicative actually. At least I don’t think so.

The thing is that I wouldn't question you on that. I don't think it's odd to have conflicting scum reads, or have a specific scum read as an exception to how one thinks scum would play.

And I figured you saw the thought process as scummy because you were voting me. I don't think you voted me just because you think I'm odd.

I was trying to put a vote down based on what someone who seems to have a better grasp on the game is voting (I think mastina is Town?). I haven’t actually myself figured out who I think is most likely to be Scum.

I haven’t been historically able to read Titus properly. I think your points aren’t totally silly. I think if the Scum had two shots, shooting petapan who seemed to have a magnifying glass aimed at Titus makes a lot of sense.

Also, what do you make of 468 through 470 from Uncrowned? This is why I think it’s possible they’re Scum (if I had to summarize it).

I think it's a little out of place for them to suggest that because Ircher's wagon didn't hit a lull that it implies it wasn't a mis-elim wagon, when there wasn't really a chance for it to hit a lull in the first place. The focus on the Ydrasse wagon also feels weird, it was obvious the votes were just leftover from RVS. The vote on me is just kind of whatever though, like I thought it was weird when it happened since they seemed confident that Ircher was scum, and pressuring a low activity player is baseline scum play. But they aren't on my radar atm.

is this the attempt to engage with me after being prodded by andre that you're talking about? because this is the only other thing i can possibly thing of, and this isn't asking anything of me at all

"yeah guys i swear i really prodded uncrowned but he's just refusing to interact with me now that i'm actually talking to him" lol this can't be a serious thing you're trying to push rn

i also asked andre to elaborate on those posts and he's yet to say anything i believe so uhh, must be scum too i guess.

VOTE: Roden

i find it too hard to believe he's not blatantly lying about his intentions with me. good elim let's go squad

literally in the post you suggest you wanted to interact with me you also say "but they're (me) aren't on my radar atm."

you don't ask me a direct question

you're just making comments about a post another player made in response to them, with plenty of passive, uncombative language ("a little out of place", "feels weird", "their vote on me is just kind of whatever though") like you don't actually care about getting a read on me at all outside of replying to andre's query about me

and i was apparently supposed to make a full engagement out of that with you so we could really solve each others alignments, huh?

this is fake solving attempts if i've ever seen it ngl

Roden [8]: mastina, Andresvmb, Klick, Malakittens, Ydrasse, Titus, Uncrowned, PenguinPower
Titus [5]: Roden, Lukewarm, Ausuka, Dannflor, Vivax
Malakittens [1]: furtiveglance
Dannflor [1]: fireisredsir

not voting [2]: jjh927, Something_Smart

green flip would have me looking in {Mastina, Andre, Kilck, Mala, Ydrasse} with preference being: Mala, Andre, Mastina, Ydrasse, Klick

red flip would have me looking in (Luke, Fire} with preference being Luke

i think either flip i still independently have a scumread on S_S

i am unsure of where i stand on furtive, ausuka, yourself, jjh

i independently TR Vivax, PP and Titus so ya

like idk i’m at this progress on roden and the ending conclusions seem pretty... not it lol

[Ydrasse]

and like i kinda feel uncrowned doesn’t care at all about what’s happening today or really yesterday either

[Something_Smart]

I need to heavily reconsider fireisredsir as potential scum, I think.

Why did you have him as town originally?

[Uncrowned]

and like i kinda feel uncrowned doesn’t care at all about what’s happening today or really yesterday either

you are correct!

i'm just observing for now. i have reasons.

[PenguinPower]

I need to heavily reconsider fireisredsir as potential scum, I think.

Why did you have him as town originally?

Hi s_s. Nice to see you.

Where are you at with your reads/who do you want to vote?

[Something_Smart]

Fire I guess? They had many ways to make their claim believable and took none of them.

[PenguinPower]

What's unbelievable about the claim to you?