Warrior Cats Mafia [Game Over!]

[JunkoChan]

page 2 and there's already a your mom joke, fun stuff

[JunkoChan]

Catboi keeps asking questions that I don't believe he actually cares about the answer to. 606 is like a fun sounding rebuttal and looks surface-level curious but I don't think a townie actually looks at Mistyx's post and asks themselves that question. I think it's fairly obvious what Mistyx was trying to accomplish. I find still find his response to fireisredsir in 825 skeevy. I don't think you tend to talk to someone like that unless you know they are town. I think

even if you are townreading

that person, you still interrogate that process because that is the point I would consider maybe someone slipped up. Catboi claims he did interrogate fire but the tone and phrasing of the question, again, does not make me believe catboi is actually interested in an answer. I don't know what catboi hoped to gain from asking me if I felt Marashu was the best vote in 900. It feels like a good productive question but I feel a townie goes the extra step of realizing, hey, Dannflor is voting Marashu, what other answer is he going to give but "yes."

The other major problem is that I feel like his pushes are inorganic. 352 looks like its designed to showcase that catboi is continually thinking about the game and rereading. I don't see a believable thorough line here as to why he went back to this post. My vision might be colored a little bit here because I've been nurturing the theory that catboi/Marashu is S/S for some time now, but it really reads to me like catboi made that push because he realized he hadn't interacted with Marashu well enough yet / his interactions with Marashu were bad. And again, I don't feel like catboi is looking for anything in particular from Marashu. He doesn't wait for a response before moving on. I don't think catboi

got

anything out of that.

My first reaction to the KittyTacky push was that I did not expect town!catboi to jump on KittyTacky so aggressively. I still don't think the case for KittyTacky scum is very strong. I realize this is contradictory as I wouldn't really be surprised if KittyTacky flipped scum. But my scum read there is more lazy than anything else. I don't feel passionate about it. I don't think there's really a good reason yet to feel passionate about it. I think KittyTacky's 583 is surface level scummy, but the hop onto the Norwee wagon would give me pause. I would expect "newbscum" to be a lot more self conscious about votes that don't have personal reasons attached. The underexplaining of the vote makes me reconsider. It feels like a very easy thing to jump on and I just... am surprised catboi felt more passionate about that than anything else in the game. I expect prodding at that or even voting it. I don't really expect the aggression catboi displayed. It feels like the exact type of thing I would jump on as scum because whew it's so easy and so

obviously

scummy.

I feel like catboi has been the one holding our PT at arms length the most. I feel like I'm ripping this straight from catboi's post, but he feels so supremely "just there." He's been doing some mediation between Datisi and S_S which feels so unnecessary and LAMIST. The thread health of our neighborhood isn't a big enough issue, Datisi and S_S weren't even getting heated. It felt like doing catboi was doing something because he knew it looked towny not because he actually thought it was going to help the game. Like, I also thought their spat in our hood was making it very obvious they were both town, but I did not want to stop it because it felt very very revealing the more they got down into it. I also just think before then catboi has had a disturbing lack of reactions to anything happening in the hood. Mastina had a huge entrance. Datisi had a big emotional reaction at the start of the hood. Catboi has been deliberate in not giving early reads on either me or Datisi, and for some time I gave catboi the benefit of the doubt that he was just in information gathering phase. But I don't really get the sense that catboi has been like, genuinely responding to these events, even in a very delayed fashion.

Now, catboi is accusing me of the same thing which... I think is accurate to an extent. I have pretty deliberately been on observation mode so far this game. Partially for lack of time and partially because I haven't felt very confident on any scum reads yet. I don't get the sense that catboi is lacking either confidence in his pushes or that he's deliberately being more passive. For some reason his hood presence is just way less than his main thread presence.

Catboi outing his read on me has given me some pause. It's probably the first push I like in the sense that I wouldn't consider it on an easy target. It does show some thinking about the game behind the scenes. I'm not too surprised by it. I had a feeling the spicy scum read was me. I think I'm probably still firmly within my scum range.

however, I
1) don't like the way catboi outed the read. the leadup to it > to outing it when I outed my scum read of catboi feels overly performative. catboi hasn't really trying to poke or prod me at all outside of me beginning interactions with him. that's not what I would expect from someone who has been nursing a genuine scum read on me for a majority of the game.

2) don't like the way catboi seems to not actually want me dead. continues to feel performative. I think if catboi genuinely scum read me to the strength he claims, he would campaign for my elimination. and he should. He is already undercutting himself by saying he doesn't think I will get eliminated D1. I have been eliminated D1 as scum before. I don't think catboi is someone to get hungup on player charisma or popularity or whatever. I think if catboi had a strong scum read on Datisi, he would do his best to make that elimination happen. I don't think it's any different for me. as such, this push feels more about discrediting me and looking town then actually either sorting me or trying to kill me

okay I have no idea wtf is dann talking about here

I can agree that catboi was "just there" in the hood, but catboi did say "I'm busy" I might be biased here because I know he was proably telling the truth but I can see that

I agree push on kitty was bad

what I don't agree is that his posts were "lamist" or that he was doing mediation between S_S and Datisi, it was mostly datisi S_S and Dann talking for like 6 pages before catboi posted his read on Dann in the OT

and in the end I dont like this passive agressive conclusions "this is not why I expect from someone townreading me" "you should be pushing me harder" "were you hesitating because of my charisma" it all brings back memories of scum!dann

but then this happens in the thread a few pages after

mastina came into our hood and immediately locked town datisi/catboi/myself because we were vibing

idk what to make of that

Best flip in the game from my pov no cap. If people are down I am in to flashwagon it.

VOTE: mastina

VOTE: mastina

VOTE: Mastina

dann drops the read on catboi entirely, or at least for a few pages and pushes a mastina wagon? because aalisae said she was bored of big posts????? excuse me?

would you mind explaining your town read on mastina, catboi

would you mind explaining your town read on mastina, catboi

I thought that her reads made sense for her mainly in the fact that I disagreed with her scumreads

catboi says he townreads mastina and dann is like okay cool beans

and then alisae and fire have this exchange:

the catboi/dann thing is interesting ig. it feels like they're both kinda puffing their chests up a lil bit, maybe just bc it's all very... cordial? it feels like there's a slight lack of. something. behind the posts, intensity or conviction maybe. some of it feels a bit like writing for the sake of writing rather than like, a true reflection of a passionate scumread of the heart

that could just come from being 2 good players early on in the game who are aware that even if they find the other to be suspicious so far, it's hard to be confident in a read, so idk

i kinda still am more nervous about catboi of the two but it could be a playstyle thing that im not used to

I tend to think their catboi is a different playstyle and I dunno if they do it purposely or I just don't understand it but I think it slightly controls for the approach.

This is basically correct fwiw, I attempt to play differently on different alts. Nice of you to notice.

like i think this is probably part of it bc i mostly townread him when he's more in vibey casual less-wall-y mode and that's probably just more what im used to

the catboi/dann thing is interesting ig. it feels like they're both kinda puffing their chests up a lil bit, maybe just bc it's all very... cordial? it feels like there's a slight lack of. something. behind the posts, intensity or conviction maybe. some of it feels a bit like writing for the sake of writing rather than like, a true reflection of a passionate scumread of the heart

Could be theater

i thought of that but then i figured like... i would kinda expect them to be more performative on the aggression if it's theatre? like if they're doing it then might as well go all out

instead it sort of feels like neither really wants to fully step on the other's toes

which is rather polite of them and that sort of thing should probably be encouraged, so

i would kinda expect them to be more performative on the aggression if it's theatre? like if they're doing it then might as well go all out

What makes you think they have to be more performative about it?

I've seen Dann do theater before I don't remember it being at all performative but rather, and quite literally, a waste of everyone's time and did not really change any reads.

i would kinda expect them to be more performative on the aggression if it's theatre? like if they're doing it then might as well go all out

What makes you think they have to be more performative about it?

I've seen Dann do theater before I don't remember it being at all performative but rather, and quite literally, a waste of everyone's time and did not really change any reads.

maybe ig, it just kinda feels like if it was theatre then it was clearly orchestrated and way planned in advance, since catboi had his "secret spicy scumread" for a while to build up to it, and it just kinda feels to me like they'd go at it a little more?

i don't really know what dann scum looks like tbh though

are you saying you think this looks like how dann does theatre? what's your read on the two of them

It has occurred to me that Alisae hasn't played in a full year and their approach this game doesn't really reflect that at all, which is pretty confusing to me. They're confident they can read Norwe better than anyone else, but Norwe has been playing an additional year of mafia while they haven't. It doesn't make sense to me, but I actually don't think it's scummy. Just weird.

What is the ideal of me that you have in ur head?
I don't really have anything else to go off of other than what I know.
I feel like what I see is clearly in line with what I know of town!Norwee. I remember Norwee as scum being pretty aggro but I don't know how that developed but I also know that however that did develop, that's probably not what I am dealing with here? Seems more likely he's just town that's the simpler conclusion to come to right now and I imagine Norwee will only get easier to read as time goes on so I am happy to leave it at that.

--

maybe ig, it just kinda feels like if it was theatre then it was clearly orchestrated and way planned in advance, since catboi had his "secret spicy scumread" for a while to build up to it, and it just kinda feels to me like they'd go at it a little more?

i don't really know what dann scum looks like tbh though

are you saying you think this looks like how dann does theatre? what's your read on the two of them

Why would they go at it more and waste their own posts when no one cares?
I'm not necessarily saying it is theater, I didn't read because it looked fucking obnoxious, and you know what, maybe that's obnoxiousness is intentional, maybe it's not, it's not easy to tell with that posting and asking me to find out I would rather bang my head against a wall while drooling
I remember liking Catboi and Dann seems fine but they're also good scum players so it's not like something like this can't be theater

ok yea i mean i don't think its impossible to be theatre either

i don't really feel like that's the most likely option tho

I think its safe to say they're aligned with each other

I think its safe to say they're aligned with each other

idk if this is a serious take or not lol

if it is then what makes you say this given you said you didn't read it

what I meant by I didn't read it is I didn't read all teh wall posting in depth, what I did read is that it seemed like they were both pushing each other for being at arm's length, which makes me think they're aligned with each other

is this S_S_S back to back to back? idk

[Bell]

1114 is another anti-spew. They’re trying to explain themselves to me, but they don’t have a strategy to deal with me as a partner because I’m not their partner.

[JunkoChan]

page 52 dann after changing his vote a couple times swaps to mastina and is followed AGAIN by Alisae and norwee

[JunkoChan]

Okay,
so
I'll be real here.

My meta on Mastina is basically:
Will Mastina have a meltdown?
Y: Scum.
N: Town.

They had a meltdown.

I'm fine with this. For the day.
VOTE: Mastina

Ah, I see what you're saying for plot reasons one kitty leaves the clan/is evil.
While Titus is the good rogue kitty that comes in to shore up the clan that had a loss/betrayal.
Makes sense from a plot point perspective.

...I forgot what Ydra said about this. *shrug* I'm sure someone will dig it up.

i guess i got my answer

[Lukewarm]

I kind of expect this to not be that convincing to most people, but if there was a player here whose play I would most accurately describe as 'going through the motions', it's Dannflor. It felt like prior to the point I posted 724, he was making posts to give the appearance of doing things, but it wasn't really building to anything useful, just the occasional stray read or question, nothing showing any depth of thought, pretty trivial to fake. Since his v/la ended he's dropped a few walls, but the thig I have to question is

why

he chose to write thosee walls - it's three towncases on Datisi, SCRDBEAR, and fire. And while I think those are

fine

reads to have I question why Dann feels the need to post about those reads in particular - I think SCRD and fire in particular are close to consensus townreads and no one actually needs to read anything. The Datisi one is at least more relevant in the fact that several people are scumreading Datisi so I

could

see town making that defense but the placement of it in the rest of his body of work still feels unnatural to me - it feels more broadly like he's positioning himself to be 'correct' on Datisi rather than doing anything else.

It doesn't really feel like he has scumreads he actually cares about. The thing is, I feel like by his questioning, he should be skeptical of me, and he placed me as a scumlean in his reads list, but he also seems to have latched on to my kittytacky scumread way too easily. And I don't believe that town, who is suspicious of a players, sees that player scumcasing someone and decides they're okay with the case. I'd expect him to show a little more skepticism if he was actually suspicious of me. I've noticed that when I'm wrong on a scumread Day 1 scum pretty frequently latch on to my push and the way he progressed from defending kittytacky to starting to agree with me felt unnatural - like he wanted to be able to push the wagon but not look opportunistic in doing so. By comparison, look at how much he's putting out on his towncases versus his scumreads - 854 and 856 are effusive. 901 is pretty empty by comparison, and the reasons are all pretty generic. It doesn't really feel like a read he actually believes in. In my experience, while it's reasonably easy for scum players to fake believable sounding townreads - because after all, they know who is town and will always be correct in their reasoning - it's a lot harder for even good scum players to fake believable scumreads. They don't actually have that internal thought process, the drive to find scum, and in general townies are much more inventive with how they try to find reads while scum just repeat cliches. And that's what dann's scumreads feel like to me.

There's other stuff too but it's related to hood stuff so I don't know how persuasive it would be - his posts in there felt pockety in that he was townreading people rather early for rather simplistic things and it felt more like he was trying to get in their good graces than actually sort them. It's also a case where Datisi and S_S are practically trying to rip each other's throats out, mastina at least suspects s_s, and Dann has just been kind of...there, and it feels like he's more trying to stay out of the fray with how he's been acting. Again, obviously I can't show you this stuff so I don't expect it to be convincing, but I think it's important that people know it's there. Do I actually think this game yeets Dann Day 1? Probably not, but he's probably the player I feel is most likely to be scum right now.

This post makes me think that Dann and Junko are not partnered, which would mean my current solve is wrong. Which is sad.

[Ydrasse]

VOTE COUNT 7.4

[1]

Dannflor

: Bell

[7]

Not voting

: JunkoChan, Freedom, furtiveglance, Dannflor, Cephrir, Something_Smart, Lukewarm

—

With 8 alive, it takes 5 to eliminate.

Day seven ends in (expired on 2022-12-13 21:42:31).

MOD NOTES

• have fun!

• let us know if you have any questions, or if something's wrong! i might be busy playing wow: dragonflight.

• keep track of your post count!

• currently v/la: n/a. if i'm missing one/you're not v/la anymore let me know.

[Bell]

Those wall posts are weird.
But I’ve never seen a non-weird wall post.

[Bell]

I guess I’d like the next person on my list to claim
Now.

[Freedom]

I just think I'm still well within my scum range and last time I was scum in a large I flaked out

I know it's not alignment indicative for me but I don't really expect everyone else to think that

I don't know I think I've been keeping a lot of thoughts to myself and slowplaying this game a lot so it's a little weird to me that I'm just flying under the radar

idk fire can you explain more what has been towny about me while I'm here? I feel like you would've reevaluated me by now

i think you keeping thoughts to yourself and slow playing is like exactly what i expect from you as town tho. that specifically was what i remember ari saying made you dangerous as town in turing test

you seem like you are clearly having thoughts under the hood and engaging with people when you want to

ive liked your gamestate observations and i think those are generally less likely to come from scum, at least out of nowhere

i liked your engagement with me earlier, felt pure and didn't give pockety vibes at all

idk i just haven't felt any reason to reevaluate on you since finding your d1 to be towny. i gave it some consideration after catboi's case but it wasn't really that convincing to me and then he later kinda took it back anyway

also tbh you being kinda missing lately does nothing to make me feel like you're more likely to be scum. id probably be more worried if it felt like you were trying to control things here, but ig it's true i don't really know how you like to play scum

why do you think i would have reevaluated you?

i want to throw this post out to the group do you have any thoughts about it

I feel like fire was making things up to justify a TR on Dann.
The interaction doesn't feel manufactured, though.

[JunkoChan]

I guess I’d like the next person on my list to claim
Now.

what list?

[Bell]

Is now a good time to mass claim?

Sure.

Danflorr
Flow trap.
Freedom
S_S
Cephrir
Luke.

[JunkoChan]

-*reads pm*
-how do I even claim this?

rowanclaw protector of the starclan

im from the shadowclan

im apprentice

and i am "loyal of the last" which basicly is a doctor

[Bell]

Great, what are your actions?

[JunkoChan]

it hasn't been used it's a 1 shot too

[Freedom]

basicly is a doctor

By this, are you claiming Doctor or a Doctor-like role?

[JunkoChan]

basicly is a doctor

By this, are you claiming Doctor or a Doctor-like role?

it's a doctor-like role there's something about it I think i shouldn't say tho

[Freedom]

I guess I can go now.
I am Bluestar, Leader of ThunderClan.

[Freedom]

basicly is a doctor

By this, are you claiming Doctor or a Doctor-like role?

it's a doctor-like role there's something about it I think i shouldn't say tho

I see.
It's just that the Masons were also Doctors, though ungated.

[JunkoChan]

It's a possibility.
I don't really think how S_S reacted to SCRRDbear was terribly different from how I reacted to it.

quote?

ebwop

[JunkoChan]

Because T3 is objectively scummy while Alisae is objectively most informative.
Comparing these two i'd bet my money on T3 flipping scum, but Alisae is a great source of information while also being a great potential scum slot.
T3 flip on the other hand gives us... what exactly?

double busing? unlikely

Charloux is town, ergo Freedom is town

[JunkoChan]

I guess I might finish reading tomorrow, I'm at 115, I saw 2852 and went to see Dann iso, there's a case on kitty and E3 that I don't think i can read right now

I'm at:

JunkoChan's pile

Town pile
Lukewarm
Furtive
Bell
Freedom

scum pile
Cephrir (hot take)
Something_smart
Dannfloor

[furtiveglance]

I'll vote with Bell for now, I could also vote for Cephrir or even Lukewarm

VOTE: Dannflor

[Lukewarm]

I am starting to think that Dann might be a mistake.

I may be projecting my own Game Feelings onto him, but I just feel like Scum!Dann would not just... be completely absent this day phase, with the amount of suspicion on him. Like, I know that real life is a thing, but I feel like if he were scum with such a demanding real life scenario that does not let him engage at all with the day, he would be more likely to rep out then just... leave his partner hanging for the day.

On the other hand, I have steadily grown more suspicious over JunkoChan's slot. Flow Trap was already a sinking read, and then her catch up has felt inorganic to me. There was a level of feeling like she was setting out with the goal of town reading me in the way she interacted with Val, but also the way she interacted with her scum read on Bell early on felt acted.

Clearest example imo is the Question / Response of 5040 which felt focused on Making A Point about Bell that it missed that in the very Vote Count she quoted, the majority of the surviving slots were on Mastina.

FINAL VOTE COUNT

[11]

mastina

: Shiro,

Dannflor

, fireisredsir,

Val89

,

Bell

, PenguinPower,

NorwegianboyEE

, Alisae, Titus, Marashu, Mistyx

That is 4 out of the 7 Not!junkochan slots still alive on Mastina, and there does not seem to be any form of deeper thought put into thinking about that, despite her having A Thought that led her to check the vote count to begin with.

Again, more focused on Making The Point that Bell called mastina town, then voted there, then thinking about why he voted there or why half the remaining players did either.

And even makting That Point, she does not do the follow up on it look for when Bell's read changed. She made the point, then went back to reading the game chronologically, which felt very ?? to me as well.

[Lukewarm]

I also feel like it is convenient that Dann has landed as her strongest scum read, given the current game state.

I feel like this point is purposefully narrowly framed, and misleading, while buried in the depths of a wall post.

dann drops the read on catboi entirely, or at least for a few pages and pushes a mastina wagon? because aalisae said she was bored of big posts????? excuse me?

Here is Alisae's casing leading up to Dann deciding to vote Mastian, at the point where Junko is reading.

Spoiler:

This post is wierding me out talking about how wagons can off someone and numbers and all that. why not focusing on the votes and reasonings and instead on the ability of players to rally others against another player?

Partially because I'm demonstrating what a scum thought process from me would look like?
-Bell's "reasoning" for voting Norwee is that mastina had a 97.something% read. It looked like the reasoning for the vote was that they were rallied by mastina. That is the reasoning at the time.
-Kitty's "reasoning" for voting Norwee was they supposedly looked at mastina's case and went "yep, this is what I want to do." They were rallied by mastina. That is the reasoning at the time.

FA the quote chain is a line that was snipped out of context.

If we were scum together I would probably just tell Norwee in a private topic to just not engage, just makes more sense not to. It's not like people are going to let mastina influence their actions or read her posts. Engaging doesn't do anything, if anything, probably makes mastina look more credible, and wastes posts.

It probably reads weirdly because the post was written about me speculating about what me and norwee would do as scum.

I'm saying that maybe mastina's Norwee push is the kind of thing I feel like scum would jump to like dogs to a bone and that's what ended up happening with the 2 players I mentioned? I'm basically saying that's what is happening if she is town. Mastina is the best flip in the game from my pov.

regardless, mastina is being so lazy with properly casing some of her reads but the ones she is explaining shows she is actually thinking about details. she also explained in some short words her meta take on norwee even without examples so I find her analytical at that stage of game and it keep repeating about different reads of her at that point that makes me wonder if it can be fakable by scum mastina that consistently.

It is and it is something that is potentially happening in this mafia game.

why you think she is faking her reads?

My understanding of scum!mastina is she takes about what she knows about people and tries to twist the truth to suit whatever it is she wants.

mastina came into our hood and immediately locked town datisi/catboi/myself because we were vibing

idk what to make of that

Best flip in the game from my pov no cap. If people are down I am in to flashwagon it.

Alisae makes the following points:
Mastina's vote on Norwee is sus,
Mastina looks like she is faking her reads
Mastina is twisting the truth of peoples meta to justify her scum reads.

Dann chimes in that Mastina's posts in their hood were odd, and Alisae says she thinks it is a good wagon.

Dann votes, followed quickly be Alisae and Norwee.

And junko summarized all of that as:

dann drops the read on catboi entirely, or at least for a few pages and pushes a mastina wagon? because aalisae said she was bored of big posts????? excuse me?

Which feels purposefully phrased to make Dann's vote on Mastina look scummier.