Toriel's Patience (end)

[Lazy Shirou]

yeah, usually people either start as a hyperposter or go from hyperposter to more laid back (Alisae hello?)

i think this is the first time i'm witnessing someone that used to have an average/above-average amount of activity becoming a hyperposter

it's interesting

[Lazy Shirou]

Taly you keep asking certain questions that people have already answered not too long ago...

[Lazy Shirou]

Also it's interesting to note how much my weak early game where I was just meming seems to influence people considering me even now that I'm substantially townier in my own judgement, once a consensus is achieved on something, it takes significant amount of effort to overtune it.

It's a phenomenon I had noticed before but never personally experienced as town

[Lazy Shirou]

Votecount 1.7

() -

he/him

Dannflor

(1) - Alisae

he/him

Random Nurse

(1) -

Brown Eyes

He/him

Lazy Shirou

(0) -

He/him

Brown Eyes

(0) -

Meuh

(2) - implosion, Sakura Hana

She/her

Sakura Hana

(0) -

She/her

Freedom

(2) - Ydrasse, Meuh

he/him, they/them

Keyleth

(1) - Random Nurse

She/her

Ydrasse

(0) -
She

Alisae

(3) - Dannflor, Taly, Lazy Shirou

Taly

(0)

He/She

implosion

(1) - beeboy

he/him

beeboy

(2) - Dunnstral, Toriel

Not Voting

- Keyleth, Freedom (2)

(expired on 2023-11-17 12:17:50)

I think you forgot to replace Brown Eyes with Bingle here Isis!

[Lazy Shirou]

I need to find the time to sit down and read all the flavor Isis is writing~

I never played Undertale, though. All my knowledge on it is from youtube/fandom spamming stuff everywhere

[Lazy Shirou]

Also it's interesting to note how much my weak early game where I was just meming seems to influence people considering me even now that I'm substantially townier in my own judgement, once a consensus is achieved on something, it takes significant amount of effort to overtune it.

It's a phenomenon I had noticed before but never personally experienced as town

when do you think that you became townier? i didn’t get a good hold on you when i was catching up and it felt strange because from past experience you’re usually a… i don’t know if easy read is a good word honestly but i get more of a sense that you care about what’s happening?

i think it started with the "mandante vs shirou" short text war and from then on i think my posts are significantly "better" from a third party view

still not the usual tryhard shirou though because as you can see i signed up from the start as "Lazy Shirou" here and said from the start i wanted to play more casually

[Lazy Shirou]

here's my most recent scum game where i signed up as "lazy shirou" from the start too but quickly replaced myself as "Shirou" to tryhard given i was being suspected:

viewtopic.php?t=90333

i don't care to do that here or when i was fighting against mandate because although i very much would dislike being mislimmed for the second time ever (first was my second newbie game), i don't care about it enough to want to break my desire to be more casual here

[Lazy Shirou]

as scum here i probably would have been more dramatic towards Mandate to attempt making our engagement look TvT, just like what i did towards town!Pooky pushing me in the game linked above

so yeah, i'm town and you're all welcome!

[Lazy Shirou]

i don't mind never being spared that could be fun in its own way

i do dislike people putting me in the PoE for D1/D2 alongside Meuh/Ali when i think i've been significantly townier than either of them

[Lazy Shirou]

even without any votes on me i feel slightly offended.

[Lazy Shirou]

maybe i'm just not used to being suspected as town though

maybe i'll get more used to it this game

i'm trying my best to be a pleasant player to be around here

[Lazy Shirou]

@mod V/LA until sunday

[Lazy Shirou]

Ali is at E-2

I feel pretty okay about the lim

no other thoughts this game feels stagnated

[Lazy Shirou]

if both Ali/Meuh flip town on me I think this game could get spicy but right now I'm just bored waiting for the scummiest slots to die since I believe in my townblock

[Lazy Shirou]

[Taly, Beeboy, Merlyn, Sakura, Ydrasse]

I think this is all town

[Lazy Shirou]

I guess freedom is merlyn now though, so many replacements it's hard to keep track

[Lazy Shirou]

Ydrasse is town for the mandate posts if it's not clear

[Lazy Shirou]

so if I'm correct (gotta take a closer look at Merlyn/Sakura but I think it may be right), that's already 3 townies to spare at minimum if both nightkills are inside that pool

if Dunn is town that means a win

if Dunn is scum that means I'm fucked and need to find one more but I'll cross that bridge when we get there

[Lazy Shirou]

If we assume Dunn is town for supernatural reasons, we only need to be correct about a townblock of 5 people to win by Mercy Route unless I'm bad at math.

So, who is your ELITE FIVE folks?

[Lazy Shirou]

We're officially calling our picks for the "townblock" ELITE FIVE from now on too

any unlawful conduct regarding this rule shall be reciprocated with negative values to affection points

[Lazy Shirou]

...Wait is it Elite Four...

Listen it's been awhile...

[Lazy Shirou]

WAIT IT'S ELITE FOUR BUT THERE'S FIVE PEOPLE ON IT

Wow it makes bloody sense

So we gotta pick 5 people but only 4 are gonna be spared and become real elites.

Makes sense.

[Lazy Shirou]

if you think scum is okay with the gamestate, what mutually agreed upon townreads do you think are wrong?

That’s the problem, innit?

I don’t really see anyone as super scummy. I do think I’ve come up with a way to vastly improve our EV that may have been missed in the design of the setup though.

VOTE: No elimination

Even if we assume that no lim = mafia doesn't pick an elimination, I'm not sure it's worth wasting nights without a NK just to give a "second chance" to slots like Ali which probably aren't gonna be town read ever?

Meuh is trying more and could technically turn the suspicion around but I doubt Ali would do anything similar here

[Lazy Shirou]

if both Ali/Meuh flip town on me I think this game could get spicy but right now I'm just bored waiting for the scummiest slots to die since I believe in my townblock

This is simply not a town Shirou mentality in my book

Even as "lazy" I just don't think Shirou gets so calm and okay with this

Cool theory?!

There's only one problem with it mhm...

The problem is that it's

WRONG

!



(town game where I didn't wage a thread war until D3 where I replaced myself to my main "Shirou" account):

viewtopic.php?t=90380&user_select%5B%5D=36942

[Lazy Shirou]

Two posts worth of note in the linked game:

i don't have the confidence on calling scum correctly so

i just wanna say my thoughts + or - and leave it at that

i don't wanna hardpush anyone or pick fights

i don't even want to say my thoughts very much because i completely lack confidence at it but i figured it may be unfair to not post anything if i don't plan to try too hard later on. my iso so far is empty i guess

being suspected is kinda tiring

I think I'm a bit more absent minded here but it's because...the whole game is that way?

We're all going in circles, and my strongest suspect isn't posting a lot so there isn't a massive case to dig on

I can be passive and also expecting me to be the unique one strongly pushing the game forward is just unfair

everyone other than Taly/Meuh is being kinda passive here, and one of those is being heavily suspected therefore has more incentive to want to change the gamestate as either alignment

[Lazy Shirou]

so once again, me being passive is still within my town meta

k thx

I can understand being lazier meaning less aggressive 1v1 with others and less engaged with the game (although I don't think Shirou is particularly disengaged), but

I don't think it eliminates that passion and conviction that Shirou had in that game, it's just absent here

What conviction should I've here?

I'm not super confident Ali flips scum, it just seems like the best flip given no one townreads her and this is a game about sparring townreads

I already explained how if Dunn is town, we only need 5 correct townreads and that's a game win.

I gave away my townblock and suggested everyone did too, what else should I be doing dear Meuh?

[Lazy Shirou]

I want to emphasize AGAIN that:

If Dunn is town we only need 5 correct TRs to win here.

Start discussing a consensus townblock if there's nothing else to discuss.

[Lazy Shirou]

A townblock of 5 people to be clear

No reason whatsoever to include people there other than the 5 towniest slots

It would just give a chance for scum to insert themselves

[Lazy Shirou]

There's also a ~secret~ reason that we don't want to include anyone other than 5 slots but that's only gonna be revealed in the future!

[Lazy Shirou]

[Taly, Beeboy, Merlyn, Sakura, Ydrasse]

I think this is all town

^

My Elite Five,

Ydrasse is town there because of Mandate's posts

I know some people are gonna argue for Key to be there rather than Idk, Merlyn? I think I could compromisse on that but I would rather not, Key hasn't done much for awhile here

[Lazy Shirou]

Actually...

wow it's been 5 days and 6 hours (right now) since Key last posted.

[Lazy Shirou]

I also know Merlyn was replaced but I haven't memorized very well who is Merlyn right now

I need to keep checking the opening post given the amount of replacements

[Lazy Shirou]

Oh yeah Freedom

Your posts are kinda blegh but don't override my read on Merlyn yet

You also feel a bit more active than I remember you as scum

[Lazy Shirou]

Actually you're my weakest town read now that I think about it

[Lazy Shirou]

spicy

gotta go play more genshin now

but that's a hell of a vote

[Lazy Shirou]

/shrug

VOTE: Meuh

[Lazy Shirou]

I was expecting a PhD thesis on why Taly is definitely and utterly scum here, you've let me down Dann...

VOTE: Alisae

I voted Meuh because I was alone in the Alisae wagon given last VC. If any of them are town, I think Meuh could be more readable than Alisae in the long-term and that makes my preference be Alisae for today.

[Lazy Shirou]

There's only 3 days until deadline.

I think it's about time people start putting money where their mouths are.

[Lazy Shirou]

To anyone not voting someone or in a low hanging fruit wagon:

Do something. This is getting boring.

[Lazy Shirou]

actually I think I misunderstand/confuse the meaning of "low hanging fruit"

I meant something more along the lines of "vanity wagon", basically something unlikely to happen.

[Lazy Shirou]

by limming Merlyn (Freedom) feels like you're all trolling me

[Lazy Shirou]

Meuh you're almost convincing me of turning super saiyan and deathtunneling you for the rest of the game

The way you've been fishing around for viable wagons is probably the slimiest thing in the thread so far

[Lazy Shirou]

This "Freedom is easier to read than Ali but I want to flip Freedom for info reasons" reasoning sounds like total bullshit and I like Ydrasse more for pointing it out

Your last posts does not feel like a real thought process

VOTE: Meuh

[Lazy Shirou]

The reason I was voting Ali is exactly because I don't think she would ever comfortably get to "readable range" later on based on her approach here so far, and I think Freedom is close enough to that too but I've Merlyn posts to base myself on at least in D1

We don't know who we may be forced to consider sparing in late game so choosing slots you feel more comfortable reading is the way to go

Freedom flipping scum hardly tell us anything given how little interactions Merlyn/Freedom had, it's hardly an informative flip

[Lazy Shirou]

on a re:read Merlyn's ISO doesn't look as good as I remembered but still not someone I would choose in D1 here

[Lazy Shirou]

if Freedom is somehow scum though, I think that's town points for Meuh, it's the second time she's riding that wagon.

[Lazy Shirou]

if Freedom is somehow scum though

is this implying you town read freedom?

I town read Merlyn and I've been pretty clear about that?

Why are you asking for confirmation on this?

[Lazy Shirou]

That double vote makes me feel a bit uneasy...

[Lazy Shirou]

WHO'S GOING TO GIVE ME HEADPATS NOW

I was the first person in the whole game to actually suspect Meuh

If she flips scum I'm the one that deserves "headpats"

I dunno why you're soft claiming to be the reason we're going for Meuh here when you've been way too open to alternative wagons including me one of the main people pushing Meuh through the game

[Lazy Shirou]

Honestly the unique reason I town read you is for the hyper activity Taly.

I do NOT like your posts at face value and I think most of the engagements you get into do not progress the game.

[Lazy Shirou]

Also for the AtE versus Mandate I guess

[Lazy Shirou]

That double vote makes me feel a bit uneasy...

How so?

because it happened just after I voted Meuh?

It picked up speed and it gives me a bit of cold feet but I do still think Meuh is one of the most likely slots to flip scum here

[Lazy Shirou]

I would ask we wait for Random Nurse to be properly replaced and their slot give an opinion about Meuh before we hammer

I think Ari can be scum but doesn't have a lot of content and it would be helpful to have the slot take a stance before we proceed for D2

UNVOTE:

[Lazy Shirou]

I'm still voting Meuh in spirit to be clear.

I just want the Ari/Nurse slot to do SOMETHING because neither of them have done much of anything for the whole D1

[Lazy Shirou]

If meuh flips town it has wolves all over it

funny you say that because I think the same about the Freedom wagon

[Lazy Shirou]

I wonder what made you feel so inclined to say this.

disliking the content of some of your posts at face value even if I think it comes from town?

isn't it obvious from how I posted...?

[Lazy Shirou]

what catches my eye

shirou

is that you're gatekeeping why town is eliminating

meuh

by asserting that i dont have as much power as i think i do and emphasizing that you earned credit simply by being the first person to come to the conclusion, on a post i made that i thought was very obviously a meme.

should i have added a tonal tag like /j?

your tone doesnt match the scenario

It's not about me earning "credit" or whatever.

I simply disliked your posts implying Meuh wagon was happening because of you, even if it was in a joking tone. I didn't remember you pushing Meuh for most of the game and so it felt like a weird thing to say/suggest (again, even if in a lighthearted tone).

I do think it deserves town points if Meuh is town though

[Lazy Shirou]

i just dont understand how you interpreted my caps post, it was intended to be a joke, but i interpreted your post to be serious and didnt think it matched the vibe i was going for

so you saying that you disliked my content and that it doesnt progress the game felt out-of-left-field to me

i think my posts are fine, theyre helping me solve

A joke often needs some amount of truth in it for the punch line to deliver (or sometimes to be the complete inverse of the truth and meant ironically)

just because you said it in a joking tone it didn't seem to mean to me that you weren't suggesting there was some kind of truth on that claim. I don't think the caps post was the unique one where you were implying it

[Lazy Shirou]

I don't have enough brainpower for tonight to analyze Meuh/Implo/Sakura latest beef

and thanks Isis for the deadline extension!

goodnight~

p-edit: okie Taly

[Lazy Shirou]

i don't dislike the flip even if we were wrong

i do dislike the fact we now have unpaused deadline and we still don't have someone in the Ari slot

and Ari's slot has very decent odds of being scum

but okay

[Lazy Shirou]

I don't think Ydra/Mandate is scum

I would still look in [Alisae, Implo, Ari] and maybe [Dann, Key] here

Freedom very maybe

[Lazy Shirou]

Taly is even townier than before and it's a shame because I kinda wished she was scum deep in my heart

[Lazy Shirou]

I'm gonna do this for now in fact

VOTE: Random Nurse

[Lazy Shirou]

I think almost everyone agreed to varying degrees that Meuh looked bad

If I had the energy I would be looking back on people defending Meuh for questionable reasons because that's an easy target to whiteknight yesterday

Off the top of my mind I only remember Alisae doing that

[Lazy Shirou]

When majority agrees that something is scummy but someone keeps defending it, it's statistically +scum behavior in my experience. It's potentially an informed PoV (now that I know Meuh is town for example, I'm reminded of some of her posts that could be interpreted as "towny".)

Scum loves to try to be the voice of reason and skepticism when town is lost.

[Lazy Shirou]

RCE

do you ever have those D1's where you emphatically believe someone is scum

despite your top two townreads

telling you that they are town, but you ignore that and proceed to eliminate said scumread, AND they actually flip town

that's me

that's my character arc right now

What?

Ali is one of your top town reads?

[Lazy Shirou]

UNVOTE:

I think I remember RCE being a rather active slot, this is fine to me for now

[Lazy Shirou]

rather active player*

[Lazy Shirou]

I uhh, don’t remember us playing together. If it was relatively recent I’d feel worse.

I don't think we ever played together either. I just have read older games you were a player in.

[Lazy Shirou]

Oh voting the more "inactive" slots is scummy

I forgot what we were supposed to do is eliminate people contributing to the game

my bad

[Lazy Shirou]

I really should have killed you yesterday Ali

I may be wrong but I think voting Ydra is a big mistake

It's one of the three towniest slots to me (Beeboy/Ydra/Taly)

[Lazy Shirou]

you voted meuh literally shut up

YOU FUCKING SHUT UP

[Lazy Shirou]

Actually you know what?

Maybe I should help you push Ydra and then if she flips scum I'm gonna "shut up" and accept RC was bordering being toxic as scum intentionally rather than because he was town frustrated

But then what if Ydra flips town Ali?

Will you "SHUT UP" too?

[Lazy Shirou]

VOTE: Ydrasse

[Lazy Shirou]

Will you shut up if Ydra flips town?

[Lazy Shirou]

Or are you just being an annoying hypocrite and you wouldn't "shut up" for being wrong once in a game of mafia?

[Lazy Shirou]

Or are you just scum?

[Lazy Shirou]

It's almost like I knew that if Meuh flipped town you would lolcat this

You were claiming the "wolves" were all on her wagon on D1 when most people were suspecting her

[Lazy Shirou]

The unique hesitance I've about deathtunneling you right here and now is that I think you may be town for real due to the "slip"

[Lazy Shirou]

we're not doing mercy anymore.
We are straight-up just flipping every single player on the meuh wagon

GAHAHAHAHA

UNVOTE:

[Lazy Shirou]

I'm pretty thorn on freedom

I guess I could vote there if it's consensus

[Lazy Shirou]

then what's your alternative?

Prob one in [Implo, Bingle, RCE]

maybe one in [Key, Dann, Freedom]

/shrug

[Lazy Shirou]

maybe Alisae, Idk

If Ali wasn't joking about not wanting to go Mercy it looks pretty scummy to just lock your reads for a D1 wagon

but also almost too scummy to be scum

[Lazy Shirou]

honestly I'm very much feeling like "shutting up now" yeah

this game already feels like a mess due to all replacements and all, but I was trying my best out of principle

don't feel like that anymore, bye.

[Lazy Shirou]

Sorry Dann it wasn't meant to you

I typed it out before I saw you had sent new posts

I'll reply this to you before going!

what is your suspicion with keyleth, shirou

I just think she feels on that "meh" spot where scum may be, her posts are fine at face-value but I don't feel much of a desire of solving the game from her

She's "just there" and I've increasingly become aware that a lot of the time scum are "just there"

[Lazy Shirou]

My reads are mostly PoE I don't have a deep chongus case on anyone here other than my townreads

It's one of the reasons the game feels hard too

[Lazy Shirou]

I can join the Freedom wagon if that's the consensus, sure

I'm not sure this is the slot with the highest odds of flipping scum today though, and if it flips town I believe the same people that are pushing Ydrasse as scum should likely stop

VOTE: Freedom

That's E-1 according to my counting.

[Lazy Shirou]

Psstst

shirou

Wanna townbloc

No.

[Lazy Shirou]

Then what slot IS highest odds of flipping today

One of RCE/Implosion/Bingle imo

and why not counter that?

Can't be bothered to.

[Lazy Shirou]

Oh, actually you have voted implosion now

okay

VOTE: Implosion

I think Freedom could be scum though, I don't know how to read Freedom because he often provides too little content. One of the reasons I agreed to vote there despite my positive feelings towards Merlyn is that I doubt Freedom will provide me with positive feelings in the same way. A townread there will need to depend on a flimsy early read on Merlyn in D1 for the rest of the game and that feels kinda bad if they're by any chance scum.

[Lazy Shirou]

I'm feeling varying degrees of an attempt to actually choose fight by Ali/RCE/Sakura and I'm here to say that's scummy

If you aren't gonna consider sparing Freedom though, I think he could be the right vote regardless of the odds of flipping scum imo.

No one except me town reads the slot (so no chance of sparring) and he's not what I would consider someone very readable.

I've a philosophy about how to attempt sorting this game when we get the Mercy ball rolling and the less "readable"/"transparent" about their intentions someone is, the less likely we'll be able to understand what the scum team is trying to do

[Lazy Shirou]

I'm entertaining just calling RCE actual scum for that post considering Ari's lackluster ISO too

[Lazy Shirou]

Actually. This will look weird considering my above posts but I'm really starting to hate lurking or active lurking because it's such an unfun playstyle to play against given it barely feels like you get a chance to read the person so I may as well do this

VOTE: Freedom

[Lazy Shirou]

I'm genuinely developing a "Kill-All-Lurkers" mindset if I don't have a very strong read on someone

I'm realizing I've lost too many games and witnessed too many games be lost by mechanically not eliminating the people contributing the least

[Lazy Shirou]

You can likely take this as turning point in my scum hunting philosophy: "If you don't think someone has significant odds of being THE scum in the game, just vote the people not contributing"

I'm starting to think that in the majority of the cases effort is alignment indicative too. Most people in this site nowadays don't like playing scum or at least don't like it enough to actively make an effort to mislead town rather than hoping town eats itself.

I think there's decent odds of Implosion/RCE having scum but I would rather lose to them than Freedom.

[Lazy Shirou]

I'm going to tentatively replace Freedom with Ali in my five slots to be sparred

I'm not solid on this yet though

[Ydrasse/Beeboy/Taly/Ali]

I'm also removing Sakura for a bit, I've doubts

[Lazy Shirou]

Maybe it's like Ydrasse, Shirou, Implosion, Freedom

OH WAIT 3 player wolf team 3 mafia ok

On hindsight there's only 4 minutes from the initial post to the "oh it's only 3 scum" one

I thought there had been more time between them but this looks like it could be potentially fake to me

Not that I think it's fake, I just have doubts now while before I was considering truthful

[Lazy Shirou]

I'm feeling varying degrees of an attempt to actually choose fight by Ali/RCE/Sakura and I'm here to say that's scummy

Hm? no, i've been on the Mercy camp since Implosion's EV post.

It's not the impression I got from this post:

Choosing Fight will hurt my WIM.

Why is this even something you worry about?

How is the choice between Fight/Mercy NOT something we should worry about?

However if I'm just interpreting it wrong, sorry then, it just seemed like a "It's kinda fine if we choose Fight, we'll decide later, don't worry about it now"

[Lazy Shirou]

I said there was varying degrees of pro-fight stances in my post. RCE/Ali just openly supported, but in your case it was more subtle/implied and it could perhaps be me just interpreting too much. It's just weird to me that someone pro-Mercy would say "Why are you worrying about whether we will choose Fight?"

I'm also however worried that I'm being so pro-Mercy that if Dunn flips scum I could be suspected but I guess that's life (and I don't think the odds of that are particularly small)

If Dunn is town this game just seems relatively straightforward to win if my town core is right [Taly/Beeboy/Ydrasse]

[Lazy Shirou]

Since when did Shirou become a grumpy person

How am I being grumpy right now?

[Lazy Shirou]

How is the choice between Fight/Mercy NOT something we should worry about?

That's easy, i asked that coz i figured we're going mercy regardless so i was asking Taly why he was worrying about potentially going Fight.

Oh...okay that makes sense.

This feels like a reach but I'm also wondering what the point of this post is.

I at least do not townread Ali
because of the slip

Everyone seemed to be 100% buying Ali townslip and I kept thinking about it, I took a look at it again and I often make observations about how much time has passed since people's posts (and many like you call it a stretch but there's been at least two cases where it was a scum tell).

I just wanted to communicate that although I think Ali is more likely town than not atm (mostly for the slip), I also have my doubts about it.

Shirou

who would you spare first?

You.

I think you're the towniest slot but also, although I don't mean to offend, I feel you're drowning a bit the thread with the hyperposting and we're mostly following whatever you decide

As someone that has done that plenty of times myself in the past, I've found that it creates hard-to-read gamestates later on because slots aren't making as much decisions on what to drive the game towards in the past days (unless you drive towards most of/the entire scum team of course).

[Lazy Shirou]

It was bothering me a bit earlier but I think I got used to being suspected in this game

I think we hopefully can win even without me being spared so it's okay

[Lazy Shirou]

[Taly > Beeboy > Ydrasse] - town core

[Sakura/Alisae] - town leans

The first three are in preferred sparing order, I don't know who I would choose first between Sakura/Alisae.

If it's not clear I liked Sakura reply to me about the Mercy thing and am fine putting her again among the spares.

I feel like there's been surprisingly little development in my reads in the past 50 pages. It feels like nothing big ever happens here.

[Lazy Shirou]

I've explained that in the past Taly.

A quick summary is Beeboy probably town for meta and Mandate probably town for how he reacted towards Ari.

[Lazy Shirou]

Taly, if you think I'm scum, you also need to acknowledge that from rather early in this game I've been pushing for a townblock without me on it to be spared.

Aside from Ydrasse, I believe you town read all my others suggestion to sparing. I've also been vocal about being Anti-Fight/Pro-Mercy.

How can I win the game here if I'm scum and the townblock you believe in is right?

[Lazy Shirou]

Freedom

who would you spare?

Ali.
They're the only one who I feel confident being town.

I want to say this sounds like a town!Freedom's reply (town reading the main person pushing them) but I'm not sure I know what a scum!Freedom's reply to this question looks like.

[Lazy Shirou]

True, it could be that

Everyone else has more than one town read I believe

[Lazy Shirou]

This is me resetting my prod timer but too busy to properly read the game

something I wanted to point out though is that kyouko posting just reinforces my town read on Beeboy, it would be unusual for scum to be this committed to reading the game from the start, sure it could happen but it rarely does

[Lazy Shirou]

I just hope Dunn is town because otherwise it will be tough to pick the townies in [Bingle, Implosion, RCE, Dann, Key] to spare

Dann/Key are the most town looking ones but I wouldn't stake the game that they're town

[Lazy Shirou]

I'm considering Dunn's silence to be a scum claim and well that's rough I guess

[Lazy Shirou]

Some people trying to pin the blame of freedom being mislimmed on me is hilarious

I was literally the unique one openly defending Freedom but at the same time worried that I could be wrong and would look like a clown if he flipped scum and he kept doing the usual Freedom thing of barely playing the game and it deeply bothers me to put more effort into defending someone than they are putting effort into defending themselves/playing the game

So I compromised and accepted Freedom was never gonna effort or be spared in the game and that it wasn't a bad coinflip especially if it proved to Taly/Ali or whoever else that their worldview is wrong

Except that even after being wrong on Freedom they have still the same reads today

[Lazy Shirou]

Ali is even saying "oh actually I wanted implo it's completely not on me, look at shirou that voted freedom"

Right.

[Lazy Shirou]

If anyone else more active had replaced into Merlyn slot I may have defended it to the end but after my experience hard defending lurker scum!Redtea and being scum read for the entire game when he flipped scum, I'm not doing that anymore yeah

This flip hurts me more than it hurts any of you but it had to be done because although I've nothing personal against Freedom, I've never seen a game where he was being town read given his playstyle. The slot was just never gonna be spared after he replaced in and was *the* most consensus scum read.

[Lazy Shirou]

I'm not even gonna try to lead this game because my reads suck lately and I also don't care enough about mafia games at the moment, but here's what I think we should do:

1) Spare Taly
2) Follow someone other than Taly/Ali/Me, we have all been proven wrong in the previous day (although I want to say that my original town read was proven right and if you think kyouko is town I was also right in beeboy and the first one to also defend him against consensus scum reads there)

[Lazy Shirou]

Kyouko you seem to be putting quite a lot of thought/effort in this game, has recently re:read everything, is a consensus town read as far as I remember and just seems like a rather smart lady.

I officially appoint you as the D3 Town Leader and I'm ready to fight against any dissenters for you.

I also want us to work towards a common 3 spare pool during D3 for us to follow in D4 if you're nightkilled, if you're not nightkilled I would push you as the next spare after Taly.

[Lazy Shirou]

I also do not want to be included in this D4 pool. I'm a controversial slot and I will lose my mind if I try to debate people on why I'm town.

I'm already satisfied with you all not being able to miseliminate me anymore.

[Lazy Shirou]

I don't think you have an accurate understanding of.my perception this game

You've changed your perception of the game multiple times as far as I'm aware

so yes, I don't have an accurate understanding of where you're, it has felt a bit too chaotic

[Lazy Shirou]

For example at some points it felt like you town read me and at others it felt like I was one of the most likely slots to be scum

This flip seemed to happen more than once and I've given up on trying to make my alignment clear to you

[Lazy Shirou]

Shirou's

play right now is counterintuitive to any team they'd be scum in

Pedit

For example at some points it felt like you town read me and at others it felt like I was one of the most likely slots to be scum

This flip seemed to happen more than once and I've given up on trying to make my alignment clear to you

:/ I'm just alienating town this game

You're fine Taly

I'm just frustrated that this game seems to be going in the wrong direction and it doesn't feel like it's gonna get any better if we keep going in this direction

[Lazy Shirou]

I think you're thinking of D4 as D3 and of D5 as D4

Yeah my bad, I thought that Dunn was gonna be flipped in D2.5 and we would get a choice on the D3 spare, it has been awhile since I read the setup

So yeah, Taly on D4 and then I would want to discuss with you what to do in D5

[Lazy Shirou]

I think in the case of scum!Dunn we need to be careful about lining up future spares

It's not about lining up spares, it's about deciding a block of the towniest people for us to choose for potential spares in the next day, and then reevaluate that block on the next day after the spare flipped. If Dunn is scum we can't afford to reevaluate if we get it wrong yeah, but is there any other alternative?

[Lazy Shirou]

Dann has been pushed into the "townblock" recently and I do not like it at all

I feel like the pool is too big at the moment, we should restrict it more and therefore force scum to either get behind supporting their partner or compromise on leaving potential buddies out of the block

[Lazy Shirou]

No one but scum benefits from a chaotic, messy and large potential-spares block

[Lazy Shirou]

I say we pick 3 towniest people and then argue out who is the best one after Taly.

My choice is Kyouko. We can leave a "backup slot" (fourth towniest) in case any of those people are nightkilled.

[Lazy Shirou]

Shirou

why did you think I was more town after the

Meuh

flip?

Scum rarely deathtunnels mislim baits

They much more often try to act like "voice-of-reason" or push it but not strong enough to look pretty bad in the next day.

Oh right, similar to what Ali has done towards Freedom.

[Lazy Shirou]

currently i agree with kyouko

so what's your alternative?

Let the thread randomly compromise on someone again?

I'm not arguing for lining up spares, I'm arguing to actively limiting the choice of spares in the next days

[Lazy Shirou]

HEAL: Sakura Hana, Dannflor, Taly, Bingle, Alisae, RCEnigma, 6

Keyleth, Lazy Shirou, Ydrasse, implosion, ssbm_Kyouko

5

for me own recordkeeping

I was gonna vote heal for what it's worth, I just hadn't time to check the thread

I do think Dunn getting increasingly more silent as the votes piled up was scummy though

[Lazy Shirou]

I'm down to talk about who not to spare regardless of Dunn's alignment which for me is RCE and Alisae, g2g for now though

Actually, this may be a better idea. Maybe.

[Lazy Shirou]

Dann has been pushed into the "townblock" recently and I do not like it at all

I feel like the pool is too big at the moment, we should restrict it more and therefore force scum to either get behind supporting their partner or compromise on leaving potential buddies out of the block

Dann is near if not my top townread, can you please show me why I'm wrong to think this way?

How is Dann more town than Taly, Kyouko/Beeboy, Sakura or Ydrasse/Mandate? Maybe consider Alisae in that pool too if you've a townread there.

I don't feel like he did anything particularly scummy but neither he did something particularly town and the fact that he's been trying to get spared since awhile ago as far as I remember doesn't make me comfortable towards him

If Dann flipped scum I would be 0% surprised because his play so far aligns decently with a theoretical scum wincon.

I've said that I've a "guilty until proven innocent mindset", so my question is why would I consider sparing Dann over the above four/five at least as long as we've other alternatives?

[Lazy Shirou]

It's no longer a question of "Why is this person scum" in this Mercy game, it's a question of "Why is this person townier than all those other alternatives?"

I can list off the main arguments behind all the five people I mentioned being one of the towniest slots, so what's the argument for Dann?

[Lazy Shirou]

Regardless of Dunn's alignment, we're gonna have something like a ratio of either 4v3 or 4v2 in the last day.

If scum doesn't mess up, every single townie needs to correctly vote on another townie to win.

Even if it's bad to discuss who scum theoretically should try to nightkill, you do NOT want to let people go around considering spares without writing a thesis on why they're the towniest slot alive. You want to restrict choice and make people commit to their spares as much as possible.

Chaos and disorganization is likely to help scum.

[Lazy Shirou]

I've said that I've a "guilty until proven innocent mindset"

I get you work that way, so can you show me why I'm silly for wanting to Spare Dann? You said he hasn't done anything really wolfy but he has the most points on my system then it's Taly and Ydra.

I don't think you're silly for it, you may be right and I may be wrong on my town reads.

But it seems your case is that Dann is putting effort and although I think effort can often be alignment indicative, it's not the case for scum!Dann as far as I know, he has a good scum game and I don't think any of the effort he has put in this game is beyond what scum!Dann would do.

[Lazy Shirou]

I could try to put forth the main argument for why the 5 mentioned slots may be town (Sakura having the most ambiguous one imo), but it feels like too much effort to me right now, I'm gonna take a shower and have dinner. Maybe later.

However I do think that all of them goes beyond "They seem to be putting effort in the game and their reads seems real"

I think you may be right on Dann but that does feel like a bit of a surface level reason to have them as your TOP town read. I don't understand how scum!Dann would look too differently from how he is behaving now and if he does have a counter-argument on why he would act significantly different as scum here so far, I would be interested to hear.

[Lazy Shirou]

Nah with my recent track record I think you're the most likely to be right if town and somehow I'm town reading scum

To be honest I barely know what I'm saying at this point, this game just felt dead and going in a bad direction so if no one wanted to try to lead us to more helpful discussion I just thought I should volunteer for a bit

I'm acting confident but I'm really not, I just finished a town game where my top town read was scum. I'm just putting up a tough/confident front like always.

I do genuinely suspect Dann though but giving a detailed explanation would take me too much effort so maybe I will save it when I feel like I've no choice but to do it.

[Lazy Shirou]

The problem is also that I'm not sure you're town so I'm naturally replying to you with some degree of hostility and sorry if I'm wrong once again

I also respect your opinion on the matter.

[Lazy Shirou]

Honestly I'm just tired, sorry if I sounded rude, I'mma gonna go now

I'm glad I don't need to potentially defend myself anymore now that we're in Mercy route though, that would be even more tiring

[Lazy Shirou]

Nah with my recent track record I think you're the most likely to be right if town and somehow I'm town reading scum

To be honest I barely know what I'm saying at this point, this game just felt dead and going in a bad direction so if no one wanted to try to lead us to more helpful discussion I just thought I should volunteer for a bit

I'm acting confident but I'm really not, I just finished a town game where my top town read was scum. I'm just putting up a tough/confident front like always.

I do genuinely suspect Dann though but giving a detailed explanation would take me too much effort so maybe I will save it when I feel like I've no choice but to do it.

Hey it's okay! I was on both of the wagons so how do you think I feel?

I'm perfectly fine with you trying to lead and see where we can go with it because we need to do something and if you ever need a sanity check I will help if you want to take the offer. I know the whole what if mafia is a thing but you get what I mean!

I thought my mental of everyone is innocent until I think otherwise would work but it really is making this game hard because everyone is playing well to me. Part of me just wants to not think about the hard part and assume mafia can't be the townist slot I think of and go down that list but I also understand how damning that can be.

Aww, you're so nice.

It does make me want to town read you a bit, this post gives off an air of innocence.

I didn't think you were rude at all but please get some rest and try not to stress and enjoy yourself. Have a lovely day/evening Shirou.

Have a lovely day/evening too Keyleth!

[Lazy Shirou]

Dunn is scum

It's hard for me to believe he's playing this cryptic as town rather than trying to give last opinions/thoughts in the game

Maybe he thinks it's funny even as town but nothing about his behavior coming today makes me feel like this will be a town flip unhappily

[Lazy Shirou]

and if he's scum, I think at least one of the people he is saying to not spare is a buddy for WIFOM

but I could be wrong on this second take (maybe even the first but I'm starting to really doubt he's flipping town here)

[Lazy Shirou]

If Dunn is town though, this game does feel winnable atm

[Lazy Shirou]

I think shirou might be tmi-ing Dunn scum here, tbh. This looks like a really shitty bit of theater to distance.

Yes, I'm very pro-mercy for the whole game and then when it's hammered I start to suddenly do a 180º and say my partner is scum

That's an amazing play to distance rather than just be more pro-fight early on when everyone else was being pro-mercy anyway and then come up with the narrative that scum wanted to insist on Mercy for scum!Dunn later.

[Lazy Shirou]

That would be beyond shitty theater

Do you think I'm shitty at theater, Bingle?

Or is the most likely answer just that Dunn's posts feel off and there's other players that feel similarly too?

[Lazy Shirou]

Like… “town would never twilight troll” doesn’t seem like a real thought process that anyone could have in 2017, let alone 2023.

I didn't say he could never be town here,

I said it feels unlikely to me atm

and yes I dislike twilight trolling when it's for whole 52 hours rather than a few hours/minutes

[Lazy Shirou]

Dunn is scum

It's hard for me to believe he's playing this cryptic as town rather than trying to give last opinions/thoughts in the game

Maybe he thinks it's funny even as town but nothing about his behavior coming today makes me feel like this will be a town flip unhappily

Let me know if there's anything you want me to give my thoughts on.

Hm, I like this post.

About thoughts, it's not about what I particularly wanted to get from you, it was my impression on how you approached soon being dead/unable to speak any further.

But if you ask me that...hm, why do you feel "better" about Bingle recently and from your weaker town leans (Keyleth, Implosion, Sakura), what's the rank of least possible to most possible of being a "deepwolf" in your view? (and if you feel like expanding on your rankings, why you feel that way about each one).

[Lazy Shirou]

Isn't Dunn just town? It feels a bit cruel to play like this if he isn't.

If you're talking about the twilight trolling I disagree, it doesn't feel "cruel" if he's scum

If you're talking about his most recent posts trying to engage me, I do agree it looks town now...

[Lazy Shirou]

like, trying to engage me when I question his alignment even though our perception of him shouldn't matter to him anymore as scum would be a bit puzzling so maybe I should indeed just shut up and wait for the flip

I think he has bigger odds of flipping town now

[Lazy Shirou]

That would be beyond shitty theater

Do you think I'm shitty at theater, Bingle?

Or is the most likely answer just that Dunn's posts feel off and there's other players that feel similarly too?

Are you mad because I'm right and it was really shitty theater?

[Lazy Shirou]

I should start to just post gifs and meme again, especially now that I can't be mislimmed anyway

trying to effort in this game is making me mald and I don't like that

[Lazy Shirou]

It's okay

shirou

I believe in you

Thanks Taly but I was trying to effort in this game mostly because it was Isis' game and I love her but I'm starting to become annoying and wanting to capslock away because I'm beginning to take the game too seriously and I gotta stop myself mhm

I don't want to play like that here so

[Lazy Shirou]

Like nobody has mentioned my 2 spares as the 2nd spare after me wtf

Hmm...well, doesn't it mean it's unlikely to happen whether you say it or not then?

[Lazy Shirou]

Even if that was to happen I don't think it's viable for D5 yeah

[Lazy Shirou]

now we wait for isis to show us the answer yes

[Lazy Shirou]

I should start to just post gifs and meme again, especially now that I can't be mislimmed anyway

trying to effort in this game is making me mald and I don't like that

I am everything lazy shirou wishes he could be

Hmm, no I was doing pretty good in D1 in putting some effort but also not taking it too seriously...

But I got annoyed in D2/D3 with the scum reads on me/direction the game was going and then I became less chill

[Lazy Shirou]

That would be beyond shitty theater

Do you think I'm shitty at theater, Bingle?

Or is the most likely answer just that Dunn's posts feel off and there's other players that feel similarly too?

Are you mad because I'm right and it was really shitty theater?

TRUUUUUUUUE

[Lazy Shirou]

I'm too effortful to be truly lazy...

I only hope that my lazy version can knock my effort level downs to average

*glorious hair flip*

"You see, my problem is that I care too much."

p-edit: Oh we're good then

[Lazy Shirou]

Minimalist modding today.

Dunnstral is town. Dunnstral is spared. Day 4 can begin now and will have the same deadline formula.

Now that my PARTNER is gone, it's up to me to endgame this town...

[Lazy Shirou]

HEAL: Taly

did the staff remove the heal tags from the tags bar...?

I hadn't noticed it until now.

[Lazy Shirou]

Oh wait I didn't read Isis' post sorry...

VOTE: Taly

[Lazy Shirou]

I don't think wolves have a response to my spare pool you kind of can't rly shoot in there
if they kill kyouko I'll just spare Key and

if they kill RCE I'll just spare Implo

or I'll get myself spared

They'll nightkill RCE...?

You'll spare your previous big scum read Implosion...?

What have you been drinking Alisae? I want some of that too.

[Lazy Shirou]

Kyouko had quoted some stuff from Ali too where she was saying "Oh I'm fine with a Meuh vote/lim" and turbo switching to "We should lim all the people in the Meuh wagon" later on.

This plus thinking that scum EVER nightkills RCE here or that sparing implosion (her previous scum read) is the next best choice...just don't look like a real thought process

[Lazy Shirou]

Yes

You wanted fight rather than Mercy

Dunn was town

That completely sounds like the easiest path to win the game!!!

[Lazy Shirou]

[Lazy Shirou]

We're definitely not sparing you or RCE. Implosion idk, but probably not the best pick imo.

If you're town I suggest you picking other names

Personally I've started to like Keyleth more and she could potentially replace Freedom/You in my townblock...

[Lazy Shirou]

I literally hadn't checked the thread yet and said I would vote spare, I've been in the pro-mercy camp since literally D1

YOU were the one saying we should vote Fight because "WE'VE TO KILL EVERY ONE IN THE MEUH WAGON"

Then once you had no support to it you apparently vote Mercy? How does that make your stances better?

[Lazy Shirou]

It's the same fucking shit with Freedom

You spear-headed the wagon, then later when it was already consensus you switched to Implosion and once Freedom flipped town you tried to accuse again the people voting Freedom

It's ridiculous and I'm definitely gonna be vocal against sparing you.

[Lazy Shirou]

who cares the best decision in that moment was to spare and I went spare

Yes, because you couldn't convince people to go Fight which was what you originally wanted to

[Lazy Shirou]

Do you think that accusing others of "crying" is an argument?

That's some gamer moment right there.

[Lazy Shirou]

I was pretty ambivalent about you until you posted that "RCE was gonna be shot" and that you wanted to spare RCE/Implo, two of the slots I find likely to contain at least one scum together with Bingle

You've also been really anti-me even when I stopped pushing you and considering you as town

If you're town I don't understand how you're reaching the conclusions you're here

[Lazy Shirou]

do you think anyone cares about logic and reasoning and deductions and questions in mafia?

People have never cared about making the utmost logic out of their stances in all history, but everyone likes to pretend to have some level of justification for the things they believe in, so yes, a bit.

[Lazy Shirou]

well you're mafia so you're nitpicking and biased i win u lose baibai

N-no way!

I didn't think you had such a strong ace up your sleeves...

[Lazy Shirou]

well you're mafia so you're nitpicking and biased i win u lose baibai

I couldn't resist!

[Lazy Shirou]

I thought he was town.

*Bzztt* *Bzztt*

WRONG!

I'm the EVIL DRAGON that HERO Alisae must defeat to save the day!

[Lazy Shirou]

whenever he says my name and has a thought the thought is always bad and filled with malice I wouldn't trust a word he says

Being an

EVIL DRAGON

is pretty bad and malicious yeah!

[Lazy Shirou]

RAWR

[Lazy Shirou]

Okay that wasn't a good enough roar for a dragon of my stature...let's try again...

[Lazy Shirou]

RAWRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!

[Lazy Shirou]

This is much more fun than malding yep

Gotta go to work now, see ya later my lovely people

[Lazy Shirou]

UNVOTE:

Just to not speedrun the day

[Lazy Shirou]

The only explanations for Alisae's play here are 1) scum that is so far behind in the game that the only way to squeeze a win out is to be completely against the grain and hope if e says it loud enough as though it's true for long enough, eventually town will glaze over and accept it

Or 2) a lot of us are wrong about our reads and we're about to spare scum starting toMorrow

I just feel like there are several town that are solidly so and it doesn't make sense to be saying things like "I'm going to spare RCE" unless it's like literally your only hope as scum

I agree with this assessment and I was secretly mulling over whether I'm town reading scum right now even if Ali is scum

There's also the alternative that Ali is town and it's just her opinion I guess

[Lazy Shirou]

Now I want to spare either Ydra or Key tomorrow

I want kyouko around to help avoiding certain spares options we both hate

[Lazy Shirou]

I can't afford to spare Kyouko tomorrow, this game gets too troublesome then

[Lazy Shirou]

that is who I am sparing next phase taly ya good job

I feel like you want to get rid of Kyoko just to have better odds of sparing yourself or Implo/RCE

I don't want Kyoko anymore and I'm just communicating it now if this question arises tomorrow

For me it's either Ydra or Key now.

[Lazy Shirou]

Evil Dragon Shirou can't let me spare my haters

[Lazy Shirou]

Shirou

Ali

has been going after

inplo

as scum this whole game I don't think e wants them spared

I think you aren't reading closely Taly.

how is 2 town 2 mafia a gamestate that works am I missing something cuz like

Dannflor
Lazy Shirou
Ydrasse
Bingle

Dunnstral spared (assuming maf here)
RCE shot
Sakura Hana spared
Keyleth shot
Alisae spared
Taly shot

implosion spared

beeboy shot

if I die next spare kyouko and then spare

rce/implosion

/key and that should be gg?

[Lazy Shirou]

I do understand that Ali may be doing ~something~ but it's not up to me to decipher cryptic reasoning

[Lazy Shirou]

nani

You can still join Team EVIL DRAGONS

We've an evil dragon and a detective. A Pelican would fit right in too.

[Lazy Shirou]

nani

You can still join Team EVIL DRAGONS

We've an evil dragon and a detective. A Pelican would fit right in too.

Toucan*

listen english isn't my first language, and this is an exotic bird

[Lazy Shirou]

I'm bad in biology

I was always a math kid although I also hate math nowadays

[Lazy Shirou]

Also Shirou Taly is MY bird she's already claimed

Damn...I must say that the talking bird makes much more sense to be the Hero's companion...

But what if I turn her into a bird dragon?!

I think that would be very fitting for the start of her EVIL arc

[Lazy Shirou]

Birds are related to Dinosaurs which surely should be closely related to Dragons

Checkmate Ali

[Lazy Shirou]

Taly as a bonafide toucan is 0,00000000000001% dragonic

She would be practically at home if she joined my team

You're calling me stupid just because you're too foolish to understand or believe in Darwin

[Lazy Shirou]

I honestly didn't ask

I honestly didn't ask if you asked~

as an EVIL DRAGON I do not need permission to spread EVIL

[Lazy Shirou]

RAWR

[Lazy Shirou]

I don't have anything else to say so I can vote you or hammer you if you're also done discussing stuff

[Lazy Shirou]

I've made up my mind about what to do tomorrow and I've already communicated it to not look crazy tomorrow given I changed my mind quite a bit

[Lazy Shirou]

I think beyond the layer of who is towniest, I may also need to consider if the people remaining would be able to stop scum being spared

[Lazy Shirou]

Even if Ali isn't scum I think her pool may contain scum basically

[Lazy Shirou]

(I've started to think that Ali is indeed scum though, to be clear)

I think Ali/RCE would be too obvious though, one may be pocketed by the other

[Lazy Shirou]

E1 me

VOTE: Taly

If you're ever scum it would be the biggest plot twist ever I guess, but I doubt it

[Lazy Shirou]

If Key dies it'll be sad, I just started to town read her and she's pretty enjoyable to engage with

but yeah