Mafia Reunion | Postgame

[Titus]

I haven't seen anyone push you in ages.

You think there might be a reason for that??? Like, because everyone else got the memo that I'm town after Maestro flipped? Cakez was the closest person to pushing me after that, for crying out loud, and here you are talking about how he 'defended' me against a memepost!

You haven't cooperated with me at all. You were trying to save Cakez.

No,

you

haven't cooperated with

me

at all. You just come in, drop bizarro takes like they're obvious, demand people act on them, and ignore the obvious.

And I have no idea why you think I was trying to save Cakez, or

why you think I would do that if he was a traitor on my team.

Hell, since apparently he was the original I may bloody well not have even known he was traitor rather than town, and that would be even

less

reason to do whatever it is you think I did to try to save him!

Either Drew or Dan is likely scum. I'm trying to sort which. If you're good, start cooperating. We need everyone.

Yeah we do need town to cooperate and I'm on the verge of just having to accept the theory that you're converted because if you're town we're gonna lose anyway because you just insist I must be scum.

...

Wait a sec, you just tried to bargain a vote for Dan for a vote for me later. You

know

we can't both be scum together if you're not faking your names.

Eff this
VOTE: ActionDan

Well there's one thing you're right about here. You and Dan both cannot be scum. I forgot my names for a second.

[Titus]

it is an eventual loss for town if traitors continue to be the lim
you have to hit group scum to win

Right so who is group scum. Who is an acceptable lim?

[Titus]

that is what i have been stuck on
if roden did the conversion last night i know what most of the team is then
if roden was converted instead then
no clue

I'll humor you. What is it in the other scenario?

[Titus]

Flavor, why isn't it that y'all were pushing on Dan town but there weren't enough scum to join so we got two traitors back to back?

[Titus]

@Flavor, didn't the whole FG push it like a masonry?

[Titus]

It still doesn't preclude Drew as scum.

[Titus]

As for roles FL, need all your info

[Titus]

If Aureal stopped scumclaiming, I could vote for Dan.

[Titus]

Oh, you probably meant Titus, not Theta. Titus would have to be converted if it's a Dan/Theta team, yes. In which case they could simply have gotten her on Night 2, maybe because they were worried about her collection of names.

How? I've been tightlipped on my name.

[Titus]

Two of Dan/Theta/Aureal are conftown, right?

Yes, as I would be shocked with any other false innos.

[Titus]

FL being group scum is possible socially, but I'd put more evidence on him being a convert if scum. Both worlds are viable.

Claiming miller in the first post is something I've done as scum and won before. It could signal a traitor who he was.

However, from a setup design, it makes a lot of sense for a false guilty. Maestro was originally a false guilty for NK15. Cakez was a false inno for NK15. DV was a false inno for my role. FL being or starting as a false guilty makes sense.

[Titus]

i standby there is a group scum in Dan/Drew basically 100% of the time.

their roles put them in a situation where they can just target each other every night and become untouchable bar the unstoppable action, but I always thought that was weird.

Setup wise I have always been 1 in 1 out.

[Titus]

Flavor, what do you think of the odds Maestro was the n1 convert? A new person was coming into the slot and would have no background to be traced.

[Titus]

We have Maestro n1 convert, ? n2 convert and Roden or Theta being the n4 convert, supposing Flavor's information is accurate as of the time he said it.

[Titus]

Flavor, what do you think of the odds Maestro was the n1 convert? A new person was coming into the slot and would have no background to be traced.

Yes, that's exactly what I'm thinking. It's a good move to target the slot that has a replacement coming in so they're just a fresh face with a fresh view and no inconsistency with a previous attitude.

We can agree on that.

I also think one of Roden or Theta is culted as they were so in sync but not now. Unless we think specifically my stubborness held them together, one of them is almost certainly culted.

[Titus]

I want to trust Titus and FL but I'm getting paranoid.

Fair. Everything should be reassessed but we have more data now.

[Titus]

UNVOTE: Aureal

I kinda think I'm on a mech roll here.

[Titus]

Drew reads pretty town in game and in the pt

I probably want to eliminate Aureal or Bianco today. Maybe Roden or Theta??

FL is probably town but I really feel like that quickhammer was a gambit play he'd make as scum so I'm not writing him off

Hmm defends Dan and Drew. There's only a couple slots outside the FG not mentioned and I'm one. But I was beefing with Aureal and Theta at the time.

[Titus]

Real Name	Flipped or Announced Identity	Listed in my Feeback
Arden	Maestro
Blair	Cakez	named d2, d3
Cameron
Dakota	Drew	Named d3
Emerson	DeasVail	named d2
Finley	Hu Tao
Garnet	Dan	d5 result
Harlow
Ira	Not Known 15
Juniper	Theta	d5 results
Kiernan		d5 result
Lennox	Roden
Merritt	Radical Rat
Nova	JacksonVirgo	Named D2, D3
Oakley

Let's suppose that I'm right about Roden or Theta being converted n4.

Suppose it's Theta.
Dan and Aureal are both town. Roden's town too. Drew is scum in FG. JV is town due to names unless he swapped, which is highly unlikely.

Dan, Aureal, Titus, Roden, JV, +1 of Thom, FL, Hu
Drew (group), Theta (cult), [2 of T, FL and Hu are convert and scum].

Mechwise, FL doesn't make sense as group scum. We get a realistic 50/50 for the other.

I'll process Roden in the AM

[Titus]

I don't think either Roden or Theta are groupscum, just n4 converts. Let's start with Roden.

Hu Tao, on day 3, claims an inno on Roden. That would be a very bold move to claim an inno on a partner. Roden hadn't claimed to be Finley until day 2. Also, Gamma is not going to call Roden's ability a cult ability if she checked Finley and got an inno night 1. This would require an unstoppable action assuming Gamma wasn't lying about being ascetic.

Hu Tao's content has also been less than stellar.

Meh, this is possible.

If Roden is the group scum, theta is town. FL is only viable as the n4 convert.

[Titus]

I'm not group scum or converted, like obviously I kinda have to say that no matter what but I'm already confirmed not group scum by Hu Tao and told Theta to target me so that the cult wouldn't target me

Faking this result probably just means Theta got converted instead

Explain the timeline of Gamma/Hu Tao innocent.

[Titus]

I have a raging sinus headache. I will not make choices today.

[Titus]

You turn to your screens as a new video pops up on YouTube.
Somebody in that video looks surprisingly familiar…

Finley

visited during the IRL stream.

This feels like a cult ability

Umm if Gamma had an inno, why is this a thing?

[Titus]

Flavor, what are the limitations of your role? Can you put all your checks?

[Titus]

I'm not group scum or converted, like obviously I kinda have to say that no matter what but I'm already confirmed not group scum by Hu Tao and told Theta to target me so that the cult wouldn't target me

Faking this result probably just means Theta got converted instead

Explain the timeline of Gamma/Hu Tao innocent.

Leaf claims that his role let's him detect conversions through flavor investigation. He checked the Hu Tao slot on N2 and was able to confirm what Hu Tao claimed as her flavor. Hu Tao slot is mod confirmed to have visited me on N1, which I willingly revealed.

It isn't possible for either of us to be group scum with this info in mind.

Flavor Checking Hu Tao is also inconsistent with 70 in the rec room.

[Titus]

I mean I could be sinus fucked up but I see those as clear problems.

[Titus]

You turn to your screens as a new video pops up on YouTube.
Somebody in that video looks surprisingly familiar…

Finley

visited during the IRL stream.

This feels like a cult ability

Umm if Gamma had an inno, why is this a thing?

Hm. Misdirection? It's weird, but I guess not as weird as it would be in a game where you'd have to worry about getting night killed, where it'd be wise to try to leave some idea of your actions. It's hard to see how this could be scum-motivated given how entangled Hu, Roden, and Leaf's claims are.

I am proposing Gamma was town and Hu was converted n2.

[Titus]

I'm not group scum or converted, like obviously I kinda have to say that no matter what but I'm already confirmed not group scum by Hu Tao and told Theta to target me so that the cult wouldn't target me

Faking this result probably just means Theta got converted instead

Explain the timeline of Gamma/Hu Tao innocent.

Leaf claims that his role let's him detect conversions through flavor investigation. He checked the Hu Tao slot on N2 and was able to confirm what Hu Tao claimed as her flavor. Hu Tao slot is mod confirmed to have visited me on N1, which I willingly revealed.

It isn't possible for either of us to be group scum with this info in mind.

Flavor Checking Hu Tao is also inconsistent with 70 in the rec room.

Inconsistent how?

70 claims FL no action.

[Titus]

You turn to your screens as a new video pops up on YouTube.
Somebody in that video looks surprisingly familiar…

Finley

visited during the IRL stream.

This feels like a cult ability

Umm if Gamma had an inno, why is this a thing?

Gamma didn't know who had used that ability at the time, I didn't reveal that it was me until later. And she didn't push me or vote after learning that I had used that ability.

Wouldn't Gamma have targeted Finley? Isn't that how targeting roles work? So Gamma would know the name (but not the person) of who was visited. Why would Gamma feel that the person who announced her visit was cultish?

Then Gamma says in 1040 that she doesn't expect the self-watcher to work like what happened.

Then there's no real pushing or saying ok Roden's just town. Gamma does that with Flavor but not Roden, which you would expect if she had an inno.

[Titus]

I'm not group scum or converted, like obviously I kinda have to say that no matter what but I'm already confirmed not group scum by Hu Tao and told Theta to target me so that the cult wouldn't target me

Faking this result probably just means Theta got converted instead

Explain the timeline of Gamma/Hu Tao innocent.

Leaf claims that his role let's him detect conversions through flavor investigation. He checked the Hu Tao slot on N2 and was able to confirm what Hu Tao claimed as her flavor. Hu Tao slot is mod confirmed to have visited me on N1, which I willingly revealed.

It isn't possible for either of us to be group scum with this info in mind.

Flavor Checking Hu Tao is also inconsistent with 70 in the rec room.

Inconsistent how?

70 claims FL no action.

He didn't do anything night one (and I'm not sure why honestly). He checked her night two.

Check post 70 in the dance party topic and then Flavor not correcting it.

[Titus]

Sorry I was being unclear because it ran together a bit.

Gamma visited Lennox and got an inno.
A player (Roden) claims to have seen via a self-watch that Finley visited them.
Gamma would know that this person (Roden) was their inno, particularly after the announcement.
We know that Roden self-announced as Finley's target.
So then why is a "cult action" to announce the visit when his target is the one announcing it?

[Titus]

Yup Flavor’s town, lock it in (I already thought such but it shouldn’t be in question atp)

We see a post like this from Gamma but none about Roden.

If Gamma really had an inno on Roden, why wouldn't Gamma say here or any other time? It would play to her town wincon. If everyone knew she visited Roden anyway, why didn't this happen?

[Titus]

Hmph. I need to not tunnel here. Do you at least see from an outside view that with no crumbs that Hu and you look evil together?

Flavor on the other hand could go either way with a decent explanation for 70 and a full claim.

[Titus]

I am also novice and non consecutive with my action, and it is not labeled as that, so I tend to believe JV is telling the truth, and there aren’t more missing coffee actions that went unclaimed, if that’s even a thing people were thinking about.

Who did you check n4?

[Titus]

Mod: Which comes first? Investigations or culting?

[Titus]

I am also novice and non consecutive with my action, and it is not labeled as that, so I tend to believe JV is telling the truth, and there aren’t more missing coffee actions that went unclaimed, if that’s even a thing people were thinking about.

Who did you check n4?

Aureal. I claimed it when i came in, and why Aureal and Hu Tao can’t be converted scum based on my info from today.

Ok. I think you're wrong on Hu Tao. "Don't get caught" = scum converted imo.

I am in a world where Maestro was the n1 converted and Gamma/Hu Tao was the n2 convert. Roden or Theta is the n4 convert and the other town. Doesn't solve group scum but it gets us closer.

We need to identify who is good and narrow down patterns.

Can you say Aureal's flavor FL?
Sorry if the mech is overload.

[Titus]

Mod: Which comes first? Investigations or culting?

Game uses NAR so recruit happens first

While I believe you, I need to hear it from the mod.

[Titus]

If we suppose that

Hu Tao and Roden are living converts, that leaves

Dan, Drew, Flavor, Thomlith, Theta, Aureal, JV and myself as group scum.

I'm town.
Theta is unlikely to claim a guilty on a partner.
JV is likely town via names and must be town if Dan or Theta is scum.
Aureal isn't scum unless it's precisely an Aureal/FL team recruiting Roden or FL is wrong again.

Me, JV, Theta, Aureal, FL, Dan OR Drew leaves Thomlith as final scum which doesn't feel right unless the timing was to disrupt my names.

Let's suppose Roden group scum.
Theta is absolutely town.
Hu Tao is still converted.
JV still names town but possible n4 convert.
I'm town.
Dan or Drew is town.

This leaves Aureal, FL, Thomlith.
FL can be converted N4 with Aureal group scum.

‐‐------

Suppose Dan group scum,

Then Aureal and Theta must be town.
If Theta is town, Roden must be scum of somesort.
If Roden is the n4 convert, JV must be town.

If Dan scum, Roden n4 convert then FL, Aureal, Drew, JV, Theta, me as town.

This leaves Thomlith and FL again. FL likely doesn't bus Dan here. Thomlith scum.

-----Theta scum---
Dan must be town. Aureal must be town.
Theta scum doesn't fake a guilty on Roden so Roden not group scum.

Hu Tao's result was likely accurate but lied about not being able to act anymore as Gamma would push with a guilty.

Dan town, Aureal town, me town, JV likely town
Hu Tao scum, Drew group scum, Theta scum...FL or Thomlith scum
-----
Drew scum.

Covered in Theta scum.

----
FL scum

Dan town (can't see FL bussing here)
JV town
Me town
Hu Tao scum
Roden or Theta scum
Therefore Aureal and Thomlith must be town due to too many scum problem.

TLDR: If Maestro n1 convert and Hu Tao n2 convert, logical guess is FL and Thomlith are opposing alignments.

Aureal can only be scum in precisely, Drew scum, FL wrong, Roden partner and fifty fifty. This is the only setup I can think of where FL and Thomlith share an alignment.

[Titus]

Meh, FL that kinda sounds wrong again.

Aureal scum, Drew scum, Roden scum, Hu Tao scum
Dan town, Theta town, me town, JV town, Thomlith town, FL town

That's possible

[Titus]

My scum flowchart from your perspective Titus is actually quite simple with a FL town assumption.

Dan scum, Roden convert, Hu group , Jv convert.

We have to assume thomith town regardless in this gamestate.

Drew's chart has a couple more branches / possibilities

Huh?

You have too many converts. There should have been no convert the night of the dance party.

I don't get why Thomlith town. Almost all my theories have Thomlith as group scum by PoE.

[Titus]

Yes Drew I think it has to be.

@Titus we should have a convert from N1 or N2 (whatever night maestro wasn't converted) plus last night N4. And 2 group scum for a total of 4.

I don't think I see a world where Hu wasn't converted as the result seems bogus and the flavor claim of "don't get caught" is scummy.

Hu has been dead bang useless since subbing in. Gamma appeared town. Could be group scum, sure but I doubt it.

Lastly, using an ability to silence investigatives, particularly mine, after a scumflip doesn't feel too townish.

[Titus]

Titus starting from the supposition that Hu and Roden are converts is very wtf

Hu convert, Roden evil of somesort.

Still doesn't directly solve Dan v Drew.

Roden v Theta contains 1 evil

at least

.
Hu's claim is bogus.
JV can only be N4 convert.
It sorts itself from there.

[Titus]

Thomith role may only specially work that way with yours Titus. I can see the mod taking away free info in exchange for a convertless night.

Well, in your universe shouldn't Roden have a nightless self-watch as well? Theta no action? Not just me.

[Titus]

thomiths role does let me get a non-consecutive night out of the way with the way it played out this game
honestly i thought my role might only be getting one or two usages at the start of the game and now it has turned out to be two + one from coffee so

You act on which nights?

[Titus]

Bell.

[Titus]

JV, tell me who we're voting. I'm lost on group scum.

[Titus]

VOTE: Dan

While I have my concerns this is wrong, most of my townreads prefer Dan and I don't want to decide this tmo when JV is the obvious conversion candidate.

[Titus]

It's not about blame. It's about likelihood.

Sure there's a Drew/Roden chance where FL was the night 4 convert and FL pocketed Aureal with the flavor cop, but that's unlikely.

Aureal leans Dan, and there are very few mech setups where Aureal is evil.
JV favors Dan.
FL favors Dan.
Theta favors Dan (I think).

Roden hedges.
Hu is absent.
Thomlith (my other group scum suspect with Roden) is largely absent.

Dan just seems to be the play.

[Titus]

Still prefer DV, will compromise on NK, not much interest in Titus

This is support for that from D1.

But Cakez did vote Titus too D1. Which I thought was critical. I wasn't there for when that went down so the timings of the votes and the risk of the NK and Titus wagons going through at any one moment are not obvious to me. I'll re-research it.

Oh right, Cakez. I did have to call him out to get him to vote Titus, but still yeah, he probably ignores it if he's traitor and she's groupscum. Guess I can scratch her off the nonFG list, leaving me with just Theta and Roden there. And Roden seems pretty tenuous with the Hu investigative stuff.

Theta as group scum doesn't fake a guilty on Roden right here imo.

[Titus]

Still prefer DV, will compromise on NK, not much interest in Titus

This is support for that from D1.

But Cakez did vote Titus too D1. Which I thought was critical. I wasn't there for when that went down so the timings of the votes and the risk of the NK and Titus wagons going through at any one moment are not obvious to me. I'll re-research it.

Oh right, Cakez. I did have to call him out to get him to vote Titus, but still yeah, he probably ignores it if he's traitor and she's groupscum. Guess I can scratch her off the nonFG list, leaving me with just Theta and Roden there. And Roden seems pretty tenuous with the Hu investigative stuff.

Theta as group scum doesn't fake a guilty on Roden right here imo.

Then who?? Thom and JV roles would be pretty wtf as groupscum. Although outguessing the mod doesn't always work great.

Thom's role interrupts everyone's. Why is that inherently town?

[Titus]

No it does not. It stops all shared PT actions (aka conversions) and apparently singularly effects your ability to get sleep. Aside from locking PTs and creating the rec room it doesn't do anything else.

And if it was timed on an even night without telling folks?

[Titus]

Then as far as I know they would still get results.

Why would that be the case?

[Titus]

If we suppose scum can't convert during the dance party, then we have to assume town can't act as well.

[Titus]

Why must we assume that?

Because a) my ability was blocked and b) an ability that only blocked conversions seems off and unfair.

[Titus]

Probably just Roden then but my gut still screams Thom.

[Titus]

The only way that's a scum role is if the conversion blocking is just a lie and they failed a recruit somewhere.

My biggest nag is where is Thom. The only memorable thing he's done is try to pit me against FL.

[Titus]

Titus, I don't know why you're not suspecting me anymore here. Drew/Aureal should be totally viable from your pov?

Viable. I think so but it requires FL to be wrong twice or a convert I don't have room for.

[Titus]

Why aren't you voting Theta?

Aureal, this is wrong. It's very very likely Dan or Drew.

[Titus]

Guys, I was totally group scum with Thom! Let's go. GG. Sorry Dan.

[Titus]

Meh, cult should have had capped size or limits. The way this was structured it was neigh on impossible.

[Titus]

I think if we hit a cult, conversion should have been blocked. We had a total of what three miseliminations the entire game and no info