Shell Game (Day 8)

[Hermit Crab]

I don’t think Dunn is scum here by the way.

-Herr Mitt

[Hermit Crab]

So morph got a report on Shello as evil? Do we know if there can be a role like Enchanter in the game that makes goods appear as evil?

So why was Enchanter the first thing that sprang in your mind?

-Herr Mitt

[Hermit Crab]

I’m going to nitpick every little silly things and you all will enjoy it because I am confirmed town and thus I am allowed to feel the power trip!

-HM

[Hermit Crab]

Also dear people who are scumreading morph.

You are all silly.

kthx

- HM

[Hermit Crab]

I still think FB is town btw.
This is not a synced read because I forget how Chuck feel about him.

-HM

[Hermit Crab]

Did wolfbae share his read in shello in your hood?

[Hermit Crab]

Ok that’s weird then because I would expect people to see that “Enchanter” possibility only if they think Shello is town to begin with.

-HM

[Hermit Crab]

Ok that’s weird then because I would expect people to see that “Enchanter” possibility only if they think Shello is town to begin with.

-HM

“I scumread morph” doesn’t explain this either because if that’s the case, it would be “morph is lying scum” instead.

-HM

[Hermit Crab]

I need to reread Luke’s recent posts once I have time bc I’m back and forth on wolfbae

Pedit
Bingle marci is town

[Hermit Crab]

I need to reread Luke’s recent posts once I have time bc I’m back and forth on wolfbae

Pedit
Bingle marci is town

No u.

Don’t make me wagon you

[Hermit Crab]

Which sunflower head was pushing morph as scum initially or was it synced?

[Hermit Crab]

Sell me, Dann?

[Hermit Crab]

I have not felt any real alignment direction for you but skitters have felt less than town, which I’m not really sure why that is but I just wanted to corroborate what other people are seeing. Inversely, I think Herr was liking your posts in day one.

[Hermit Crab]

What do you mean by polarized bc you mentioned it earlier

[Hermit Crab]

When did your read on Cakez flip from him town that scum marci was trying to elim? Was there a particular post that set it off?

Pedit

That is @ dann

[Hermit Crab]

I’m honestly really struggling to wrap my head around this Dunn scumread you have, I’ve tried to read your posts a few times and I’ve checked notes with herr and spiffy and I’m just… not seeing it?

Don’t get me wrong, if fire and Cakez are both town it has to be him, but I have separate issues and non-issues with both fire and Cakez.

Did you share your thoughts on the Pooky kill? What did you think of it?

[Hermit Crab]

When did your read on Cakez flip from him town that scum marci was trying to elim? Was there a particular post that set it off?

Pedit

That is @ dann

Not really

I just re read Marci and decided her progression was too messy to be scum partners with Brian

And my read on cakez was mostly a preflip with Marci anyway

What makes you pick experience over the other members of the dethy?

[Hermit Crab]

I think cakez saw something scummy he thought he could score points on

i feel like all of cakez posts are this

Do you really only have 3 townreads STD

[Hermit Crab]

I’m honestly really struggling to wrap my head around this Dunn scumread you have, I’ve tried to read your posts a few times and I’ve checked notes with herr and spiffy and I’m just… not seeing it?

Don’t get me wrong, if fire and Cakez are both town it has to be him, but I have separate issues and non-issues with both fire and Cakez.

Did you share your thoughts on the Pooky kill? What did you think of it?

I don't think I did but my thought is scum kill Pooky Night 1 all the time because they're fucking cowards, and he was also a claimed ascetic so he couldn't be protected. It's possible they intuited he was some kind of power role from it, shrug. I think NKA generally sucks and I've lead myself down the wrong trail before while trying to use it.


i get that you're stuck in your opinions on the other two, I just think you're wrong. I think folks are giving Dunn a free pass for having a pulse which is an objective mistake when he's done nothing particularly town, and I think him getting nitpicky and lawyery in response to me scumreading him is definitively scummy. You don't have to see it now, it's cool. Just - please, remember this in the future because I feel relatively strongly about this.

Herr is rereading tomorrow and I’m going to carve out time next week, but we are discussing this

[Hermit Crab]

If experience is scum and y’all made me back off klick I’m going to be mad

[Hermit Crab]

Oh wait you are klick he is AD

[Hermit Crab]

I’m honestly shocked you can main hunt the ISO of perpetual catch up

[Hermit Crab]

I kept it to myself reading through that exchange, but I feel like your reaction was over the top, especially given Luke said he was v/la. It left a bad taste in my mouth that I'm still working to get over and look at you more objectively.

I’m having a few niggles that I think is just paranoia. I feel like the last few games wolf and I have played together we butted heads and I would really rather not do that unless I’m fairly certain.

Btw, do you think that unclaimed fruit vend to Luke is from scum? It would kinda go against my scum thievery theory.

[Hermit Crab]

I kept it to myself reading through that exchange, but I feel like your reaction was over the top, especially given Luke said he was v/la. It left a bad taste in my mouth that I'm still working to get over and look at you more objectively.

I’m having a few niggles that I think is just paranoia. I feel like the last few games wolf and I have played together we butted heads and I would really rather not do that unless I’m fairly certain.

Btw, do you think that unclaimed fruit vend to Luke is from scum? It would kinda go against my scum thievery theory.

From what I recall we disagreed at times but it was normal read-related stuff, I made some snippy comments that you took to be insulting you (which I felt pretty bad about because that wasn't my intention). I've no issues with you though and I'd like to work with you if possible.

The feeling is mutual! I want to sync with Herr atm and then go from there, but I’ll probably not be around much tomorrow

[Hermit Crab]

I kept it to myself reading through that exchange, but I feel like your reaction was over the top, especially given Luke said he was v/la. It left a bad taste in my mouth that I'm still working to get over and look at you more objectively.

I’m having a few niggles that I think is just paranoia. I feel like the last few games wolf and I have played together we butted heads and I would really rather not do that unless I’m fairly certain.

Btw, do you think that unclaimed fruit vend to Luke is from scum? It would kinda go against my scum thievery theory.

What would be the scum-motivation in giving it to Luke?

I know, that’s what’s bothering me.

[Hermit Crab]

@cakeboy just because I’m back and forth on you doesn’t mean I don’t need to sort the rest of the game

[Hermit Crab]

Wolfbae seems pretty convinced this is typical of experiences mains scumgame but something something alt something hard to use meta for something

[Hermit Crab]

I’m the only true super secret alt.
Reread didn’t happen yet, but I’m leaning on voting Gypyx atm.

-HM

[Hermit Crab]

Also this is kinda naive reasoning but I don’t think experience is scum here because I would think scum in dethy would be trying hard right now, since they have incentive to do so.

-HM

[Hermit Crab]

Not interested in knowing, because I know I’ve never played with their main to begin with.

-HM

[Hermit Crab]

I’ll be here when you come around to experience townread!

-HM

[Hermit Crab]

(Although, I do admit that experience could be scum if the entire scumteam are disconnected from the game)

-HM

[Hermit Crab]

It’s a large game, so few disengaged towns wouldn’t be that surprising to see.

-HM

[Hermit Crab]

mechanically why do we not want to resolve the dethy hood first today

Especially with controversial slots like wolfbae/sunflower

Well I have decided to not care about the mechanics at this point of time. If we keep eliminating scum I am pretty sure not even the dethy scum advantage can overturn that.

-HM

[Hermit Crab]

I also can’t help but wonder if experience is overplaying the clueless/disengaged townie card a bit

but others in the neighborhood are probably best positioned to make that judgement

The difference between real dumb and fake dumb is that real dumb has no limit.

-HM

[Hermit Crab]

there was explicit conversation in the neighborhood with our inventions and he was definitely aware of it. marci was on the list from Dragons. It's incompetent regardless of alignment.

Are we still assuming that scum in dethy hood is a traitor? Because if not, then at the very least he would’ve been coached right? The only possibility where I see experience as scum is if the entire scumteam is disengaged from the game.

-HM

[Hermit Crab]

VOTE: Gypyx

[Hermit Crab]

If we’re assuming groupscum then yeah.

I might reconsider if people like gypyx start flipping scum though.

-HM

[Hermit Crab]

(if it is multitasking and ceph confirmed that to y'all disregard me but uhhhhhhhhh)

I may have accidentally encouraged this, FWIW. I forgot about the issue with multitasking when I included the inventors in the inventor target pools. We are compulsive, which made me assume inventions would allow multitasking, but I'm reaching out for mod confirmation rn.

We already got the answer that we can’t use inventor thing due to our fruit vendor being compulsive.

-HM

[Hermit Crab]

Uhhh is it weird I think this is town

[Hermit Crab]

Reread didn’t happen yesterday because sudden family thing.

Also yeah that’s not townslip.
I also decided that I do not mind experience lim because it would help me better understand the game state.

-HM

[Hermit Crab]

I want to flip experience and if he flips red kill all the non efforters from S1

[Hermit Crab]

D1, rather.

-HM

[Hermit Crab]

Is it weird that I townread gypyxs Spiffeh push in light of Touhou

[Hermit Crab]

Is it weird that I townread gypyxs Spiffeh push in light of Touhou

Uh yeah i don't think this is townie really, she has a preconceived notion abt spiffeh scum and is just ignoring relevant evidence to fit her worldview

Yes and that’s how I died in touhou

[Hermit Crab]

I’m looking in the context of touhou

Idk I’m not trying to derail it, like I’m pretty sure herr has o ur vote there, but I did want to at least ask about it

[Hermit Crab]

i know, that's kind of the point

[Hermit Crab]

Fellow crusties, gimme your top two scumreads from the dethy hood. I have something to check.

-HM

[Hermit Crab]

Fellow crusties, gimme your top two scumreads from the dethy hood. I have something to check.

-HM

Actually I’ll just say this out loud.

Pooky called from

hell

dead PT and he said blood god needs more blood. I say we pick out two people from the hood who are being universally scumread, and blow them up over two days for the blood god with no questions asked.

ATM I’m leaning Sunflower / experience only because I am townreading other three more.

-HM

[Hermit Crab]

Could just lim.
We have mislims to burn after all.

-HM

[Hermit Crab]

Could just lim.
We have mislims to burn after all.

-HM

I'm never a fan of this gameplan, that's how you sink four mislims in a row and throw away any advantage we got from the Brian elim

It’s a different story when we have guaranteed scum in the pool. It’s only a matter of how fast we get rid of one, and if “AtEs” and “dumbtells” get in the way, it is an option to just ignore all that and powerlim. It is a good counter to scum trying to exploit that.

-HM

[Hermit Crab]

And remember, 1:1 trade is a gain for town.

[Hermit Crab]

(God trying to do this from my phone was painful)

Hermit and Bingle

Town:
Marci -
Spiffeh - was leaning town, strengthened by the brian flip
Shello - I was on the fence about them in day 1, but I liked their reaction to the guilty, and the more I think about their claimed role the more convinced I am that it is quite literally a perfectly designed town role for the set up (shout out to Ceph).

Tentative town:

Cat Scratch Fever
morph the cat (fferyllt & Cabd)
Save The Dragons

Even more tentitive town:
Oblivion - I felt pretty strongly about this read day 1, but they have been gone for so long, and I lack object permanence, so this read is flatlining
Dannflor - I distinctly remember thinking that Dann looked townie, but I quite literally cannot recall why.
Dunn - I leaned town on him for his read progression on me day 2, and especially liked that he actually went and looked at our prior game when I mentioned that he had been wrong before, but I having a lack of alignment thoughts on him today

Meh:
Firebringer
Firebagel
PenguinPower

Meh, Meh:
Sunflower

Would kill:
Gypyx
experience

For what it is worth, it apologizes for being gone. It maybe doesn't have time for this, but it really wants to? It is having a hard time engaging with this game past its frustration of everything being over its head between personal relationships, players communicating with hidden winks and nudges, neighbourhoods it isn't in it's.... a lot.

Add onto that that it has dental surgery this upcoming week to finish what happened to it a few weeks ago (broken tooth) and so it has really not been in the right place.

It could use some help re-inserting itself into the game, it feels, because right now it is... Daunted, is the correct word it feels.

I’m not Luke but you could look at experience’s most recent posts and it would be a good start. He’s kinda hot topic and shouldn’t be too hard to read.

-HM

[Hermit Crab]

And I’m confirmed town so you know I’m not misdirecting!

[Hermit Crab]

And I’m confirmed town so you know I’m not misdirecting!

Confirmed town unless you and... was it Bingle? are gambiting for some reason which it thinks would be a little TOO much to do at this point. But it doesn't like to speak in absolutes on things like confirmed town unless it's certain... or did something else reconfirm you past the mason claim?

You don’t have *absolute* confirmation, but if you reread both of our ISOs with respect to each other (even a Ctrl f will suffice) you can see the trend.

-notsci

[Hermit Crab]

I feel like I saw a question from you two when I was skimming, I’m going to have more time for this game tomorrow and am on phone

[Hermit Crab]

When did you realize we were masons?

[Hermit Crab]

I personally have been assuming that Shello was waiting on a fruit to get activated?

[Hermit Crab]

I was under the impression the other head was a hyper poster and I find the lack of anything disconcerting

[Hermit Crab]

Hello. We are going to lim within your hood and most people think it's you or experience.

(I still haven't done my homework to try and figure out experience's main but if it's relevant marci will just blurt it out for us anyways)

Do you think it's Experience? Or do you read elsewhere within your hood?

I'm going to look for that PYP game peta mentioned at some point today.

[Hermit Crab]

Out of curiosity, was the masons thing known in your hood last night?

No

Most of last night was Spiffy going "I want to kill bingle" and me going "no u" with some other conversations about the dethy and Shello mixed in.

[Hermit Crab]

MVP

MVP

MVP

[Hermit Crab]

I wasn't aware there were multiple playing the game in that slot?

[Hermit Crab]

You seem MUCH more interested in "winning" and "clearing" this accusation than you do in advancing the game state, my dude(s).

i don't know if i believe this is 100% true and even if it is this is a weird push

why is it a weird push

[Hermit Crab]

What makes you say that, marci?

[Hermit Crab]

How long is the dethy hood, btw?

[Hermit Crab]

For the record, our role was explicitly called masons and not best friends or whatever.

[Hermit Crab]

Are they all scum?

[Hermit Crab]

I'm doing some rereads and I would just like to state my irritation that noone thought to confirm that the inventions could be used while providing more inventions prior to giving them to other neighborhood members.

[Hermit Crab]

Why are we killing experience over sunflower, again?

[Hermit Crab]

Marci, who originally said they were going to target someone within the hood?

[Hermit Crab]

My gut also says that new katniss needs to be thrown into the furnace when I'm looking at old VC's. This is subject to change, but right now I think I am looking at

{Penguin, Sunflower (it could be experience too, I'm also really not happy about NOONE catching the mech fuckups), (Firebringer/Cakeboy (preference fire now), Bagel}

Which also feels again like the whole sort by postcount and doesn't feel great? i dunno. There's also this tiny part of my brain that's still thinking about why old Katniss said that Pooky died and comparing it with how wolfbae came into the thread with the controversial read on dunn, feeling like it *was* an attempt to shake up the townbloc and immerse into it, but I am not at all confident about it, I just want to speak this into the thread and see what others thought.

[Hermit Crab]

@Marci, why is sunflower town? Explicitly as possible, I can't divine it from your iso it seems.

[Hermit Crab]

me

Who’s scum

[Hermit Crab]

Hmmm. I kinda wish I recorded it because I do feel said frustration tends to be less than rand town, such as skitter/prism in the mini that shall not be named, various members of tenet purely as an example.

Hm.

[Hermit Crab]

Errr more than rand sorry

Basically my thought was town is more likely to voice those frustrations

[Hermit Crab]

No I mean recorded data on the likelihood of complaining versus alignment

[Hermit Crab]

I’m not talking about complaining abo it mechanics I’m talking about complaining about the meta folks

[Hermit Crab]

So I’m at page 206 and I see that people have Sunflower and experience as scum universally.

Well, why not lim both?

-HM

[Hermit Crab]

5127 is pretty gross

What if I tell you that things like that from them is NAI?

-HM

[Hermit Crab]

So which one are we supposed to dunk?

[Hermit Crab]

I don't think that iso is so similar to this one

Literally the only similarity my brain flagged was the weird posting around claim time in both but even then that's kinda nothing? He also outright seemed to fucking vanish there but had the opposite here?

pedit-
Well he's scum then >:(

I had no idea what he meant but we are explicitly listed as masons

[Hermit Crab]

Also I totally missed 5149 but want to call it town. Also where's my pal Oblivion, I want its take on stuff.

[Hermit Crab]

Is it about how they kinda shut down and went as anti-spew as possible? I could maybe see that angle.

[Hermit Crab]

I’m pretty confident in morph town. Not like the game that shall not be named confident because that has irreparably damaged my paranoia.

But the fact I’m confident in spite of it? Yeah.

[Hermit Crab]

Why do you think Dunn is scum marci

[Hermit Crab]

@the cat, are either of you around

[Hermit Crab]

We're putting the touches on the big wall'o'colors yeah what's going on?

I feel like the entire the dynamic of this game shifted from day one into day two and I’m unsure if that’s myself or something outside of it. I’m honestly really paranoid of peta because I feel like he is potentially a big reason it shifted, but I am also trying to quash that because it *does* make sense to have scum in experience or sunflower. I’m mostly hoping to be talked off the paranoia edge I think?

My own hood is kinda in a state of flux, and I find that I have a lot of reasons to townread a lot of different people and I’m concerned about how the field changed from day one.

[Hermit Crab]

If only we were about to drop a big wall of reads with reasons on each of them.

Maybe that would help.

Yeah, that will likely probably help some. I have been reviewing ISOs and VCs at my leisure today and come up with nothing

[Hermit Crab]

We’ve already done the notsci leveling up his scum game thing fire notsci doesn’t have time to level it up more than last time he did it

[Hermit Crab]

I was very proud of that post.

I think that works for me, let’s clear experience and sunflower and go from there.

[Hermit Crab]

How many votes do we need?

[Hermit Crab]

I’m cool ending the day.

[Hermit Crab]

VOTE: experience

[Hermit Crab]

i spent like 100 posts scumcasing morph in the neighborhood last night

That’s what you get for ignoring my PSA.

-HM

[Hermit Crab]

I forget.
Were the cop shots used?

[Hermit Crab]

I’m not!

[Hermit Crab]

I think we just dunk sunflower and go into next night phase unless anyone has anything they wanna do?

[Hermit Crab]

I'm uncomfy with how easily people are willing to dunk on then

Given how easily a scum bus driver was dunked on D1…

-HM

[Hermit Crab]

Also please don’t end day until cop results are claimed.

-HM

[Hermit Crab]

They were a claimed invest lol

[Hermit Crab]

@Wolf

Also dear people who are scumreading morph.

You are all silly.

kthx

- HM

I know I did nothing to really convince people of that (nor I felt the need to because I knew morph was going to die sooner or later after that mech guilty thing) but I do get to get the last laugh.

-HM

[Hermit Crab]

I'm uncomfy with how easily people are willing to dunk on then

Given how easily a scum bus driver was dunked on D1…

-HM

I have absolutely no idea what this has to do with our current predicament

I’m saying that scum with strong power just rolled over and died D1 with little to no attempt to be saved. Majority of people narrowing down the dethy hood PoE to experience/Sunflower factors in as well.

So I don’t see this as weird at all.

-HM

[Hermit Crab]

I don’t want to rush day end though, at least until I see all the cop results claimed.

If Sunflower flips town, we just nuke wolf tomorrow, unless you lovely folks still think marci or STD is scum.

And then we can lim Dann the next day for freebie and go from there.

-HM

[Hermit Crab]

I don’t think he got a cop shot n1 but I might have missed it.

He claims to have not submitted an action n1

He claimed d2 and asked Dunn to leash him.

He claims today to be blocked.

[Hermit Crab]

Oh he did, I see it now

[Hermit Crab]

Does it bother anyone else that half of the dethy seems to think there’s no scum in the dethy? Like this isn’t the first time one of them has posited that there isn’t scum in there

[Hermit Crab]

Yeah i'm a little weirded out

I want some clarity abt fire's role/claim

Let me discuss with herr and I’ll get back to you.

[Hermit Crab]

i feel like the argument against sunflower is "oh they have no WIM :<"

but like that's not really the case in the hood so i can't really jump on that bandwagon

I don’t like their positioning on Brian’s wagon and I also think Brian’s read on them is weird

[Hermit Crab]

IMO people being townier in the hood than out in public are more likely to be scum, hood control was a big part of how scum won tenet.

Essentially, Fires role has 3 components and is called a fortune teller? One component looks to the past and is like a tracker, one is a present day one (the snarglefargle thing) that I don’t think we know what it does, and the future one lets him pick someone in the future to redirect where they go(ie, he targets us n1 and makes us go to you n2)

Dunn and I both were a bit skeptical, particularly of the last part of that claim. Herr’s main holdup is he’s unsure if it makes sense for scum to have two separate redirection abilities.

[Hermit Crab]

Btw which of the dethy targeted fire

[Hermit Crab]

my working theory currently is in a shell game, some have a ball and some don't

everything points to a scum (a ball) under the shell (dethy hood) but what if it's one of the shells that doesn't have a ball under it

Do you think it’s reasonable for Ceph to design a dethy hood, give clear implication of scum existing in this hood (the only instance of clear implication btw) with clear sense of time limit, and not put scum in there?

-HM

[Hermit Crab]

I’m still confused where the notion of time limit came from

[Hermit Crab]

And you don’t think that signifies that there’s probably scum in the hood?

[Hermit Crab]

Flip the last two but that’s where I’m at too.

[Hermit Crab]

IMO people being townier in the hood than out in public are more likely to be scum, hood control was a big part of how scum won tenet.

Essentially, Fires role has 3 components and is called a fortune teller? One component looks to the past and is like a tracker, one is a present day one (the snarglefargle thing) that I don’t think we know what it does, and the future one lets him pick someone in the future to redirect where they go(ie, he targets us n1 and makes us go to you n2)

Dunn and I both were a bit skeptical, particularly of the last part of that claim. Herr’s main holdup is he’s unsure if it makes sense for scum to have two separate redirection abilities.

Uh
Can he be the bus driver lol ?

Do you think the bus driver has a backup too?

[Hermit Crab]

I’m trying to filter out townreads over and over, but my PoE pile is keep dwindling quickly.

-HM

[Hermit Crab]

I came into this day 67% positive of you being scum but I’m scrapping that lol

-HM

[Hermit Crab]

i think marci is comfortable playing that way as scum and I think people are vastly underestimating marci's capabilities as scum

Source to prove us wrong?

[Hermit Crab]

i think marci is comfortable playing that way as scum and I think people are vastly underestimating marci's capabilities as scum

Source to prove us wrong?

Defcon 5
Mafia Have a Cop

I don’t think she looks anything like those games here. Luke?

[Hermit Crab]

I think people dancing around the fact that marci isn't scum because she can't play this way as scum should be bapped

I mean, skim her ISO here versus those games. The tone sounds way different.

[Hermit Crab]

I think people dancing around the fact that marci isn't scum because she can't play this way as scum should be bapped

I mean, skim her ISO here versus those games. The tone sounds way different.

Marci is incapable of change?

It’s quite a drastic change from my recollection of her as scum that’s corroborated by those games.

Why does scum reveal the dethy like she did?

[Hermit Crab]

I think people dancing around the fact that marci isn't scum because she can't play this way as scum should be bapped

I mean, skim her ISO here versus those games. The tone sounds way different.

Marci is incapable of change?

Do people really change?

-HM

[Hermit Crab]

I think im back to susing my gal gypyx. Partly for being one of the 2 insta votes on sunflower, other part for todays posting.

I forget.
Were the cop shots used?

my items were stolen

@std/wolf/marci/sunflower
Do you think there's scum in your hood, and if so, who?

I think there is, but im unsure on who it is. i think theres points against all of them, but if i had to say i think theres the most against wolfbae but idk even.. i like his solving in the hood.

Im also ?? on firebringer for thinking theres no masons.

I don't think i doubt this but i'm kinda baffled why someone would steal your copshot given that it came from someone who's dead anyways

Because stealing the one invention made by experience makes it impossible for us to calibrate?

[Hermit Crab]

One scum guaranteed in {Gypyx, Spiffeh, Oblivion, Luke, Firebagel}, ignoring my current reads, by the way.

-HM

[Hermit Crab]

I forgot Dann, sorry.

[Hermit Crab]

Funnily enough, I townread all of those in the list except for Dann.

-HM

[Hermit Crab]

One scum guaranteed in {Gypyx, Spiffeh, Oblivion, Luke, Firebagel}, ignoring my current reads, by the way.

-HM

How did you get there?

I think thief is scum and those are the names of potential thief. Everyone else has claimed or hinted their roles.

-HM

[Hermit Crab]

By the way Dann should be in that list too, if you missed it.
And no I am not interested in scum mouse, and I would be dead long before that starts to matter!

-HM

[Hermit Crab]

One scum guaranteed in {Gypyx, Spiffeh, Oblivion, Luke, Firebagel}, ignoring my current reads, by the way.

-HM

How did you get there?

I think thief is scum and those are the names of potential thief. Everyone else has claimed or hinted their roles.

-HM

Cakez and dunn have claimed in the hood then?
Do you not think the thief can be in the hood?

Everyone claimed in the hood pretty much, and this game sounds like multitasking is not a thing.

-HM

[Hermit Crab]

Spiffy has not and Dunn has not explicitly.

[Hermit Crab]

Are we scum then too, Firebringer?

[Hermit Crab]

[Hermit Crab]

Then who is scum?

[Hermit Crab]

Where’s that list of inventions and results?

[Hermit Crab]

Out of 5 cop recipients,

FB one gave no result
Marci got hers stolen
One gave inno on CSF.
One was given to Shello but hasn’t been used.

Was the last one ever claimed?

-HM

[Hermit Crab]

Inventors, does it say in your role PM that you are notified if your inventions are stolen?

-HM

[Hermit Crab]

Just trying to find the correlation between the fruits and inventions.
Because marci wouldn’t have known that her things got stolen if not for fruit.

-HM

[Hermit Crab]

Yeah marci is fucking mech confirmed town and that’s the end of the story.

-HM

[Hermit Crab]

Yeah marci is fucking mech confirmed town and that’s the end of the story.

-HM

Well, if we can confirm that it indeed did happen.

[Hermit Crab]

wait why

Town invention receivers are not supposed to know that their invention can be stolen. I’m town and I give fruit that explicitly let someone know if their fruits get stolen. This implies that thief role is scum. So either Marci faked their stuff being stolen on purpose for some whatever reason while knowing all this, or Marci is just town.

-HM

[Hermit Crab]

wait why

Town invention receivers are not supposed to know that their invention can be stolen. I’m town and I give fruit that explicitly let someone know if their fruits get stolen. This implies that thief role is scum. So either Marci faked their stuff being stolen on purpose for some whatever reason while knowing all this, or Marci is just town.

-HM

On top of this, no offense but I don’t think Marci is mech player, nor the most people in this playerlist, to even try to attempt things like this. If anyone would come up with this as scum, I think it would be Dunn. So aside from Marci-Dunn scum, I think this just makes marci town.

-HM

[Hermit Crab]

I kept wolfbae possibility out of this on purpose because I don’t think there are two scum in the same hood, by the way.

-HM

[Hermit Crab]

are you assuming dethyscum is groupscum

If marci is scum, yeah.
I don’t see marci coming up with a plan like this as scum.
Do you?

-HM

[Hermit Crab]

UNVOTE: marci

I'm not sure I buy that she couldn't be stolen from as scum or she's faking it to help obfuscate the dethy results (or is being coached to do something like this).

But.

I want to be less gung-ho on blind gut reads so I want to think some more

I did mention the possibility of coaching, but who do you think would coach mech stuff like this in this player list?

-HM

[Hermit Crab]

wait why

Town invention receivers are not supposed to know that their invention can be stolen. I’m town and I give fruit that explicitly let someone know if their fruits get stolen. This implies that thief role is scum. So either Marci faked their stuff being stolen on purpose for some whatever reason while knowing all this, or Marci is just town.

-HM

I doubt she is lying as well. But what if scum stole the invention from their own teammate? I'm not saying that

is

what happened, only that it's possible. There are enough competent players here that I would not rule out someone coming up with a plan like that. I'm wary of these mechanical claims ever since I got burned a few years back by scum using a vote steal ability on their own teammate.

I think it’s less about competency and more about play style. Lot of people here are people who would rather solve via reads than mech, so my question is more of “would they choose to do this” over “would anyone come up with this?” if that makes sense.

Traitor thing, then maybe, but I personally feel like the whole traitor thing is a red herring.

-HM

[Hermit Crab]

I did say that the thief stolen thing needs to be confirmed.

We never disclosed exactly how our fruits could be manipulated, so nobody but the vendors should’ve known that stealing fruits alerts them. Given that the inventors not knowing that their inventions can be stolen and scum most likely being one of the inventors, the chance is that our roles are supposed to fuck them over somehow if caught in action and that scum probably don’t know about what fruit does, unless Cakez is scum.

-HM

[Hermit Crab]

Wait it alerts the fruit vendor when it gets stolen?

No it alerts the fruit holder.
The sole reason why marci knew that her things got stolen in the first place.

-HM

[Hermit Crab]

would a sunflower town flip not cause you to reevaluate me spiffeh

Ive been assuming people are scum reading me because I’m hard defending sunflower and people think he’s scum and for some reason people think i would hard defend my doomed scum buddy

You're in my list mostly because PoE at this point, tbh.

-HM

[Hermit Crab]

Please reconcile and share, because that’s going to be the biggest thorn in your side if you really want to push that wagon.

[Hermit Crab]

So scum have two fruit vendors, a thief, a bookie and a bus keeper.

Versus multiple inventors, a detective psychologist, fortune teller, oddskeeper vig?

lol

[Hermit Crab]

That’s what I get for smoking, pokemoning, TVing, and Mafiaing all at once

[Hermit Crab]

So scum have two fruit vendors, a thief, a bookie and a bus keeper.

Versus multiple inventors, a detective psychologist, fortune teller, oddskeeper vig?

lol

we haven't had everyone role claim nor am i asking everyone to just to prove a point about setup spec. I gave some thoughts on what i think of cephrir design possible choices are. U argue its dumb. But lets not pretend this is all the town power here.

Bingle and I are both confirmed fruit vendors. Bus driver is confirmed as well as a backup bookie. Unless you think marci is scum, scum have something that can steal items.

None of this adds up with the point you are making about us not making sense when we both are confirmed to have given fruit and we have already other things confirmed in the setup.

[Hermit Crab]

And marci is also confirmed to be an inventor. So scums power is literally bookie, bus driver, inventor, duo fruit vendor.

Really?

[Hermit Crab]

That is what I tried to crumb to morph day one in my league post and I told my hood that exact message at the end of N1 in case we died.

@STD

[Hermit Crab]

Bingle and I are both confirmed fruit vendors. Bus driver is confirmed as well as a backup bookie. Unless you think marci is scum, scum have something that can steal items.

None of this adds up with the point you are making about us not making sense when we both are confirmed to have given fruit and we have already other things confirmed in the setup.

i don't give a crap about the fruits being stolen. How does that prove ur masons
u being fruit vendors =/= you being masons

the fruits being stolen =/= you being town
u asked the question earlier of why scum would want the fruits to be stolen so thats very true now on why it matters if ur just throwing things about stealing/etc to confuse. I don't care about the fruits.

I don't think there are masons.
My primary reason for this is Bingle.
U i have townread all game.

And I am explicitly stating that I am not lying. And you are deflecting what should be clear, but here’s the tldr

Both bingle and I have confirmation on each others alignment which is evident through my day one play (which you can look at my early lack of reason to townread him and thus parroting penguin)

Bingle and I also are confirmed to be fruit vendors who have acted both nights
We know scum have a bus keeper and a bookie. They also have an inventor, and potentially someone who can steal items that is confirmed by an extra player.

In the hypothetical world you are positing, scum has absolutely no power against a massive town power. And again, I am not false claiming mason.

[Hermit Crab]

…that’s me spelling out what the setup looks like in the world YOU are suggesting.

[Hermit Crab]

Yeah, you’re probably just scum.

[Hermit Crab]

You’re positing I’m lying about my role, are mad I’m pointing out the inconsistencies in your logic, and yet these are stupid arguments?

[Hermit Crab]

It’s fine, we’ll deal with you once we clear the dethy scum

[Hermit Crab]

There is an explicit benefit towards clearing the dethy early that is confirmed by multiple people, and you’re trying to distract from the dethy which makes me both think you’re scum and the countdown scum needs to survive until is EOD.

[Hermit Crab]

Aww, you’ve finally realized you can’t push bingle scum without trying to push me! Took you a while.

[Hermit Crab]

Fb is obviously not scum

What exactly does scum have to lose with making a push like that?

[Hermit Crab]

Aww, you’ve finally realized you can’t push bingle scum without trying to push me! Took you a while.

Yep, took me awhile to reconcile it in my head.
This argument made me realize u are just playing an act.

Okay, let’s see your counter argument to why that setup makes sense.

Or why we kill our number one backer in morph despite the invest claim, as we can easily use them for day control.

[Hermit Crab]

Doesn't matter if it doesn't come from scum

What exactly is the town benefit to how he’s playing today? Please walk me through this in explicit steps.

[Hermit Crab]

You didn't need morph in a scum!you world

Scum me would drag them as late as possible in revenge for past games. And again, the thread control they provide would be a huge asset as scum.

[Hermit Crab]

I'm not drinking the kool-aid I think you and bingle are town

But fb is not scum

Scum!FB would be playing this game differently
Scum!anyone would be playing this differently

My concern is I can say that for pretty much everyone in my hood sans Dunn and I’m not even scumreading Dunn.

[Hermit Crab]

What are your thoughts on the gamestate atm skitts

[Hermit Crab]

I have 0 intention to get involved in whatever happened on the last few pages when one of us will die far before elo happens anyway

-HM

[Hermit Crab]

Skitts why is dann so high?

[Hermit Crab]

Oh by the way, this was way back in D1 when Brian and Cakez were being wagoned. I think given just how many people are struggling to even keep up with the game, I think we can safely assume that scum is not well-coordinated. Therefore, we can safely assume that there is like 1 scum within these people who were not on the major wagon.

VC 1.13

Bingle 2 (Firebringer, Gypyx)
Gypyx 1 (

Bingle

)
Sunflower 1 (Klick)

Not voting (Oblivion,

experience

, Dannflor)

[Hermit Crab]

Klick is meh because he was p much gone at this point due to assumed rl reason.

-HM

[Hermit Crab]

I mean more that you can remove Klick from that list and my point still stands.

[Hermit Crab]

This is why I have Dann so low by the way.

I townread Oblivion still and now I townread Gypyx

[Hermit Crab]

Its D1 play before RL got it.

[Hermit Crab]

Oblivion I saw you had some questions, I will be with you later tonight or tomorrow. Spending time with partner before she leaves for the weekend!

[Hermit Crab]

So, it has a few reads with how yesterday went down it wants to discuss. It took time to see how the experience wagon developed and was a little confused.

From the Mason claims, can it ask something? Why did Experience's death feel inevitable upon its re-read? Like, there was obstensibly a counter wagon, but it felt like the whole time it was a waiting room for Experience's death. Do you disagree with this take from it? Because it has a follow up observation about this, if it is felt to be accurate.

Additionally, from Marci, can you explain to it what your view of the deathy is in terms of your reads on the other slots?

I think most of the game had it whittled down to experience or sunflower from that hood, and at that point it’s really a coin flip who goes first. But we now have new information to review with this, is there anyone you think pushed experience in a weird way?

[Hermit Crab]

Can we please not take our bad moods out on a game we’re already struggling in?

[Hermit Crab]

So, it has a few reads with how yesterday went down it wants to discuss. It took time to see how the experience wagon developed and was a little confused.

From the Mason claims, can it ask something? Why did Experience's death feel inevitable upon its re-read? Like, there was obstensibly a counter wagon, but it felt like the whole time it was a waiting room for Experience's death. Do you disagree with this take from it? Because it has a follow up observation about this, if it is felt to be accurate.

Additionally, from Marci, can you explain to it what your view of the deathy is in terms of your reads on the other slots?

I think most of the game had it whittled down to experience or sunflower from that hood, and at that point it’s really a coin flip who goes first. But we now have new information to review with this, is there anyone you think pushed experience in a weird way?

Okay, so it's assessment is correct?

Then it doesn't want to kill Sunflower today. Infact, if we're killing in the Dethy, it would rather kill anyone else, it thinks.

The sensation of the game being a waiting room from its perspective comes from an apathetic status quo, and if it knows anything about status quo, it is that scum only allow that to exist if they are comfortable with the outcome.

There wasn't a weird push on experience. More explicitly... why wasn't there a weird push opposing? Where was the setup by players preparing for the flip? Where was the motility?

It felt as if the game had been reduced to "kill Experience, if not, kill Sunflower" and that scum were okay with this series of events.

I see what you’re saying, but this is also not the first time morph has left a big color words post. More often than not, following those posts does well (I can provide some links, both heads alone are scary good let alone together) We’re still organizing our reads, but coming into today and yesterday, we had the same conclusion. Do you have any reason other than gamestate that you think points to sunflower town?

Pedit-
It’s meant to be a guide more than anything, and helps me at the very least to have that information to compare to. This plist frankly isn’t the type of plist where it will be perfectly followed.

I did a color coding of the VCs from day one over night one, and there was a few votes on the brian wagon that did not jive based on my reads. Those were Sunflower, Cakez, Penguin. All I did was green out my townreads and red out the flipped scum, and that entire wagon besides those 3 and firebagel (who voted at my request) were on the town side of things.

[Hermit Crab]

I don’t think it’s fair to quantify morph as grinding the game to a halt, there was a good bit of information and events that happened yesterday that are all semi pertinent. Morphs guilty and retraction on shello, our mason claim, wolfbaes entrance just to name a few.

For me, personally, wolfbaes reads are giving me pause bc I do respect his opinion and stances and his drastically different view of the game is messing with my head some. To say everything was on morph is kinda unfair when everyone in the game was pretty universally agreeing? But I see your point in scum being okay with the status quo. Who of the other 3 has the most scum equity?

[Hermit Crab]

I would hope that if Sunflower is town we all decide morph and spiffeh are washed and let someone else get a turn to drive

Spiffeh was scumreading bingle he’s already confirmed washed

[Hermit Crab]

That was my view on it, yeah? It seemed like a pretty wide swath of the game was on that same page.

[Hermit Crab]

I’m not saying they aren’t too good to be fooled, and I’m pretty sure I explicitly said it’s not meant to be a full roadmap.

I am considering how you see the gamestate. We have other concerns about the gamestate too.

Pedit
The other two are wolfbae and STD.

[Hermit Crab]

That was my view on it, yeah? It seemed like a pretty wide swath of the game was on that same page.

i think there were a some loud people on this

and probably some scum going "yeah, that sounds good!"

Wanna name and shame?

[Hermit Crab]

Also oblivion, why is firebagel so town to you? You can point to where I missed an explanation.

Wolfbae is a fairly well known player with multiple alts that I’m aware of, and if you desire to find that you are more than welcome. I am also skeptical of him! In fact, he is my second choice after sunflower presently (might chance once herr and I sit and chat)

Pedit
@STD, I mean the quiet ones nodding along.

[Hermit Crab]

We’re trying to calibrate the shots is the reason.

[Hermit Crab]

And it also confirms where someone visited in a game that seems pretty explicitly non-multitasking

[Hermit Crab]

I know! I’m just trying to communicate what my view of the gamestate is so we’re all on the same page. I don’t think I’ll ever not be paranoid of you, but i think another scumflip will likely help.

[Hermit Crab]

I’m more than willing to hear out most things with logic, I’ll revisit your firebagel stance from day one because it’s admittedly been a bit. Who do you think is most likely to be scum other than wolfbae?

[Hermit Crab]

See, I disagree given how the mech works. I understand in a normal setup, but dethy is a different beast that I believe we’ve talked about plenty!

I would agree if this were a normal setup and a very explicit set of actions had not already occurred, but we at the very least are very interested in fire’s result.

[Hermit Crab]

I agree with CSF that there’s an exorbitant amount of effort today at looking away from sunflower.

[Hermit Crab]

If anything that makes me townread oblivion more because there’s no way scum haven’t clarified this ad nauseum in the PT. It makes me very skeptical of bagel though.

[Hermit Crab]

I think it can be both.

[Hermit Crab]

STD do our reads normally go in nearly inverse order? I don’t think I’ve ever checked that but I feel like we have entirely opposite views of the game

[Hermit Crab]

@Oblivion- the reason we need fire bagel to claim is a dethy is a set group with four sanities that do not know who has what. We’ve already permanently lost experience’s invention so we don’t know his sanity, so it is vital to have the information from the others to make sure we know who is clear and who is not.

Obviously if you don’t want to use the mech, fine, but dethy explicitly is a role that needs to be communicated

Pedit
I have them in the middle, herr has them as town. I’m mostly just trying to get some more data out of you has the read has run a bit stale is all!

Pedit2-
I said mostly you can’t just skip that word

[Hermit Crab]

Err, nearly

[Hermit Crab]

For reference, I’m looking at roughly

T-
Spiffy
Marci
Luke
Oblivion
Csf

LT
You,
Shello
Dunn
Cakeboy

LLT
peta

Everyone else is null or lower.

[Hermit Crab]

Is this really just a “I have no dann baseline”? Bc I don’t understand the townreads there and I am open to being sold!

Pedit-
I’m going to let hermit address why that’s not what we should do when he’s back. While yes, not having experience blows, we can’t just ignore what we do have.

[Hermit Crab]

Also we flipped the scum bus driver, so they don’t have one anymore. Unless you are trying to say that there is a backup somewhere, in which case this is a very different conversation

[Hermit Crab]

Gypyx can go in the LLT tier with peta I forgot gypyx