Eminence in Shadow: Season 1 [Game Over]

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Btw disclaimer that i know nothing about the flavor

Same

[ssbm_Kyouko]

pledge your allegiance to me and i will give you powers its ez

Yes master

[ssbm_Kyouko]

sakura town for refusing my advances

alisae town for wanting to yeet kawaii

im so good at this game sometimes

Yes

Pedit: my catchup buddy decided to actually go back and check Sakura's work, trying a little hard I see

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Brb nerds

[ssbm_Kyouko]

mech talk is the last refuge of thieves, scoundrels and cats trapped in backpacks

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Also I feel like dire wanted ppl to be town by role but then ppl were like that’s not good mechanic wise so fire took out that mechanic but ppl are still town by role

Fires probably to lazy to switch that up

I have a guess as to why it changed but I don't wanna talk about it yet as it pertains to my flavor and I don't want some kind of scumbutt getting a role that can name-kill me or something

[ssbm_Kyouko]

VOTE: Duelist Kage

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Vote on Sakura for now but I don’t know how cast votes >.<

Use the vote tags. There's a button above the text window, or just write them manually, like:

Code: Select all

[vote]Sakura Hana[/vote]

dont waste your time with these full vote tags, use this for votes/unvotes:

Code: Select all

[v]Sakura Hana[/v]
[uv][/uv]

[/quote]

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Pooky feels town too
Sakuras soft defense of the flakes and confusion after they’re voted feels iffy
Vote on Sakura for now but I don’t know how cast votes >.<

[ v ] x [ / v ]

No spaces

cultured

[ssbm_Kyouko]

>Literally just now posts reasoning why she thinks Kage's town.
>Instead of engaging with my reasoning she gets voted.

I get a vibe from 86 if I'm recalling the post # correctly

[ssbm_Kyouko]

also #1 reason why gamma is mafia lol

I feel like this is some major cap because you’ve used inverse logic before? As in you caught me for not having a defined read on you

Gamma what was the game where I faked a guilty on you when we were both town? I always think it's Radio Buzz but I think you told me it was a Mini Normal game

[ssbm_Kyouko]

also #1 reason why gamma is mafia lol

I feel like this is some major cap because you’ve used inverse logic before? As in you caught me for not having a defined read on you

Gamma what was the game where I faked a guilty on you when we were both town? I always think it's Radio Buzz but I think you told me it was a Mini Normal game

nm I found it and it doesn't have what I was looking for

[ssbm_Kyouko]

VOTE: gamma

VOTE: Gamma

Why Gamma?

Why not Gamma?

Why Gamma?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

VOTE: gamma

VOTE: Gamma

Why Gamma?

Why not Gamma?

Why Gamma?

The answer lies in the question.

So do you have a reason

not

to be voting everyone else?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I'm asking you. You said the answer was in the question: "Why not Gamma?" - I think you're implying you have not seen any reason not to vote

Gamma

, so I'm asking if you

have

seen any reason not to vote everyone else. You chose Gamma for some reason and are avoiding the questions

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I'm asking you. You said the answer was in the question: "Why not Gamma?" - I think you're implying you have not seen any reason not to vote

Gamma

, so I'm asking if you

have

seen any reason not to vote everyone else. You chose Gamma for some reason and are avoiding the questions

Am I avoiding the question

or trusting your innate insight will lead you to the proper answer?

What does

this

mean?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

What does this mean?

I trust you to figure it out.

Why?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

It's also exasperating that 205 is both an actual answer to my question and a turn of phrase that looks like a deflection at first glance - I feel like I'm talking to Riddler right now not Penguin

[ssbm_Kyouko]

ssbm_Kyouko
pookythemagicalbear
Alisae
Sakura Hana
T3
Whemestar
Dunnstral
SirCakez
Penguinpower
Cephrir
jjh927
Gamma Emerald
KawaiiKame
Save the Dragons
Luka
Duelist Kage


this is going to be hilariously wrong and im going to have a completely different list by EoD but if i were a gamer(which I am) this is what I would submit as a solve right now

oh wait is this koba

If you're Koba then you're completely town for 103 lol

I also thought Koba, good thing I'm town this game

[ssbm_Kyouko]

VOTE: cakez

Y

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Can anyone explain the Cakez wagon? I'm not understanding what people are seeing there.

I think it's that Cakez appeared, left, and then when Pooky was done with Gamma he said Cakez was scared. Now people wagon Cakez instead of Gamma

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Gamma Emerald
Sakura Hana
Dunnstral
Alisae
pookythemagicalbear
Luka
Big Chungus Gaming
T3

The town, I think (unordered)

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I'm at the bottom of page 15, don't have time to finish catching up now - be back on the 26th. Merry Christmas!

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Someone convince me Cakez is scum

because I'm inclined to think otherwise atm but I've been inaccurate on Cakez before

Also @Ali what kind of confidence do you have about Luka!town

I didn't like this

KawaiiKame is my top townread

Why?

Kawaii is super engaged

, authentic, confident, and showing evidence of solving
I have no clue why you think Kawaii is the best vote you could place atm

How is Kawaii more engaged than, say, me, Alisae, or Gamma?

That's the issue
You're using the wrong lens
I don't care how engaged Kawaii is compared to other players

I care about how engaged Kawaii is compared to how engaged they'd be if they were scum

How is Kawaii more engaged than, say, me, Alisae, or Gamma?

That's the issue
You're using the wrong lens
I don't care how engaged Kawaii is compared to other players
I care about how engaged Kawaii is compared to how engaged they'd be if they were scum

viewtopic.php?t=92050&user_select%5B%5D=36997

Did you not play in this game,

where Kawaii was scum and was far more engaged than in this game?

That game is exactly what I am comparing their play here to

I'm assuming you've seen my case post on Kawaii in that game?

Basically everything I said about Kawaii there does not apply here

This doesn't match up with Kawaii being "super engaged" and being town for it.
I guess i could just be wrong about my thoughts on Kage, but this doesn't look like you're being honest.
VOTE: Klick

I did like this

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Someone convince me Cakez is scum

because I'm inclined to think otherwise atm but I've been inaccurate on Cakez before

Also @Ali what kind of confidence do you have about Luka!town

I didn't like this

Y

Instead of asking why Cakez is scum, or voicing why you think he's town, you asked someone to convince you he is. I don't think you're replacing in with a town mindset

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Someone convince me Cakez is scum

because I'm inclined to think otherwise atm but I've been inaccurate on Cakez before

Also @Ali what kind of confidence do you have about Luka!town

I didn't like this

Y

Instead of asking why Cakez is scum, or voicing why you think he's town, you asked someone to convince you he is. I don't think you're replacing in with a town mindset

Have you not seen the same "convince me" wording used by hundreds of other players, town and scum, before?

Not hundreds, but yes, I have seen it a lot, probably from both alignments but I couldn't speak with certainty on that

[ssbm_Kyouko]

also interesting how easy it was to get votes on jjh but as long as the slot is just a wet noodle not doing anything im not putting much stock into it beyond "maybe could be preemptive bussing"

PP and STD are both just wagoning anything it looks like - I don't recall other votes on jjh right?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

T3 - What do you think of 504?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

T3 - What do you think of 504?

I thought that there was a chance you could be disingenuous scum but I buy your explanation

Subject: Hollow Knight Mafia [game over]

wow klick not gonna even bother asking ME about my petapan fanboy townread.
Rude af

Klick honorary scum.

If you can convince me petapan is town I'm also happy to hear it!
The other fire has a way of speaking to my soul though

Here's Klick using the same language as town in a past game btw

What do you think my explanation was? Are you talking about 495?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

@T3

- you missed this:

Spoiler:

T3 - What do you think of 504?

I thought that there was a chance you could be disingenuous scum but I buy your explanation

Subject: Hollow Knight Mafia [game over]

wow klick not gonna even bother asking ME about my petapan fanboy townread.
Rude af

Klick honorary scum.

If you can convince me petapan is town I'm also happy to hear it!
The other fire has a way of speaking to my soul though

Here's Klick using the same language as town in a past game btw

What do you think my explanation was? Are you talking about 495?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

VOTE: Save the Dragons

[ssbm_Kyouko]

T3 - What do you think of 504?

I thought that there was a chance you could be disingenuous scum but I buy your explanation

Subject: Hollow Knight Mafia [game over]

wow klick not gonna even bother asking ME about my petapan fanboy townread.
Rude af

Klick honorary scum.

If you can convince me petapan is town I'm also happy to hear it!
The other fire has a way of speaking to my soul though

Here's Klick using the same language as town in a past game btw

What do you think my explanation was? Are you talking about 495?

Yes.

I was under the impression that you were saying "Klick has a scum mindset because he said 'convince me' rather than 'explain to me'"
I thought this was a bad read, and perhaps disingenuous, but I buy your explanation of "I've seen that phrasing be used many times, but I can't say with confidence it's from both alignments" (or something to that effect)

that's not what I meant at all - I don't think he's scum for the wording, I don't doubt he could use those words as either alignment. In the game you linked, he's been playing from the start.

My point is, one of the first things he did on replacing in, was ask to be convinced that the leading wagon is on scum. This makes sense when the VC is more contentious (think competing E-2 wagons), when the game is longer, and reading a lot of pages will be time-consuming, or when the deadline is shorter, and there isn't enough time to read.

None of that applied here which is why I thought it was scummy. What bugs me maybe even more though is your defense of Klick. I dont know why you're first assuming my read is based on Klick's verbiage, and then why you decided to pull meta on Klick to support town!Klick when as far as I can tell you haven't expressed a TR on me (wanting to steer your TRs the right direction) or Klick(wanting today defend your TRs). I'm thinking there's a possibility that my playstyle is being discussed in the scum PT and I'm being targeted for pocketing, which would mean someone on the scumteam is very familiar with me. That brings Gamma and Koba to my mind right off the bat

[ssbm_Kyouko]

T3 - What do you think of 504?

I thought that there was a chance you could be disingenuous scum but I buy your explanation

Subject: Hollow Knight Mafia [game over]

wow klick not gonna even bother asking ME about my petapan fanboy townread.
Rude af

Klick honorary scum.

If you can convince me petapan is town I'm also happy to hear it!
The other fire has a way of speaking to my soul though

Here's Klick using the same language as town in a past game btw

What do you think my explanation was? Are you talking about 495?

Yes.

I was under the impression that you were saying "Klick has a scum mindset because he said 'convince me' rather than 'explain to me'"
I thought this was a bad read, and perhaps disingenuous, but I buy your explanation of "I've seen that phrasing be used many times, but I can't say with confidence it's from both alignments" (or something to that effect)

that's not what I meant at all - I don't think he's scum for the wording, I don't doubt he could use those words as either alignment. In the game you linked, he's been playing from the start.

My point is, one of the first things he did on replacing in, was ask to be convinced that the leading wagon is on scum. This makes sense when the VC is more contentious (think competing E-2 wagons), when the game is longer, and reading a lot of pages will be time-consuming, or when the deadline is shorter, and there isn't enough time to read.

None of that applied here which is why I thought it was scummy. What bugs me maybe even more though is your defense of Klick. I dont know why you're first assuming my read is based on Klick's verbiage, and then why you decided to pull meta on Klick to support town!Klick when as far as I can tell you haven't expressed a TR on me (wanting to steer your TRs the right direction) or Klick(wanting today defend your TRs). I'm thinking there's a possibility that my playstyle is being discussed in the scum PT and I'm being targeted for pocketing, which would mean someone on the scumteam is very familiar with me. That brings Gamma and Koba to my mind right off the bat

I assumed your read was based on Klick's verbiage, yes. I don't see why my misunderstanding of your read makes me scum. I do not have a strong read on either you or Klick, and I defended him from you because I thought your point was illogical. And how does this connect to pocketing you at all?

I feel like the simplest conclusion one would draw reading my 495 is not that my scumread was based on Klick's verbiage, but that it's based on my thinking Klick did not display a town mindset in his [ppst]412[/post]. However, someone who knows me well would know that it is not uncommon for me to nitpick on verbiage as town. I have often found that players' particular word choices are strange and done meta-dives where I check if a player normally uses those words. It feels like you, T3, were familiar with that, and you delivered the evidence of town!Klick to me unprompted, and in a manner that I would normally find Klick to be town for myself if this particular SR on Klick was based on his verbiage. I do not think you should have that level of familiarity with my play, which makes me think that you are in a PT with someone that advised you on my meta. Of this playerlist, that someone is almost certainly one of Gamma or Koba, or maybe Dunnstral.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Like your reaction feels so tailor-made to me, and it's also totally unprompted, it just feels too perfect to be a coincidence.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

T3 - What do you think of 504?

I thought that there was a chance you could be disingenuous scum but I buy your explanation

Subject: Hollow Knight Mafia [game over]

wow klick not gonna even bother asking ME about my petapan fanboy townread.
Rude af

Klick honorary scum.

If you can convince me petapan is town I'm also happy to hear it!
The other fire has a way of speaking to my soul though

Here's Klick using the same language as town in a past game btw

What do you think my explanation was? Are you talking about 495?

Yes.

I was under the impression that you were saying "Klick has a scum mindset because he said 'convince me' rather than 'explain to me'"
I thought this was a bad read, and perhaps disingenuous, but I buy your explanation of "I've seen that phrasing be used many times, but I can't say with confidence it's from both alignments" (or something to that effect)

that's not what I meant at all - I don't think he's scum for the wording, I don't doubt he could use those words as either alignment. In the game you linked, he's been playing from the start.

My point is, one of the first things he did on replacing in, was ask to be convinced that the leading wagon is on scum. This makes sense when the VC is more contentious (think competing E-2 wagons), when the game is longer, and reading a lot of pages will be time-consuming, or when the deadline is shorter, and there isn't enough time to read.

None of that applied here which is why I thought it was scummy. What bugs me maybe even more though is your defense of Klick. I dont know why you're first assuming my read is based on Klick's verbiage, and then why you decided to pull meta on Klick to support town!Klick when as far as I can tell you haven't expressed a TR on me (wanting to steer your TRs the right direction) or Klick(wanting today defend your TRs). I'm thinking there's a possibility that my playstyle is being discussed in the scum PT and I'm being targeted for pocketing, which would mean someone on the scumteam is very familiar with me. That brings Gamma and Koba to my mind right off the bat

I don't like this post, specifically the last parts where you theorize mafia are playing around you. It feels more like building a narrative than having real thoughts to me

I think I'm pretty well known to have aggressive pushes and not be as liable to sheep as most players are - the type of player that is easy to play around as scum by just letting me have free reign. I think it's very likely that more than just Gamma and Koba know this much about me. As I said before, there's no reasonable indication that my problem with Klick was his verbiage and I find it very suspicious that T3 arrived at that conclusion. The only explanation that makes sense to me is that someone has told T3 about something very specific about my playstyle that only a couple of players in this list should know about, and T3 is not one of them.

T3 was wrong, but he was wrong in a way where a lot of the times, with me, he might have been right. In this instance it didn't make sense to read my post that way, so I think he was predisposed to read it that way for some outside reason.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Like your reaction feels so tailor-made to me, and it's also totally unprompted, it just feels too perfect to be a coincidence.

Why are you voting STD instead of any of those names you mentioned?

because what I said is whack and nobody is going to listen

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I have often found that players' particular word choices are strange and done meta-dives where I check if a player normally uses those words. It feels like you, T3, were familiar with that, and you delivered the evidence of town!Klick to me unprompted, and in a manner that I would normally find Klick to be town for myself if this particular SR on Klick was based on his verbiage. I do not think you should have that level of familiarity with my play, which makes me think that you are in a PT with someone that advised you on my meta. Of this playerlist, that someone is almost certainly one of Gamma or Koba, or maybe Dunnstral.

Setting aside how likely this is to be T3 gaining info rather than a coincidence where you are jumping to conclusions, this seems like something I would be unlikely to do. Perhaps if you look at how I play in the mafia threads I have been a part of, you would agree:

viewtopic.php?t=91474
viewtopic.php?t=90969
viewtopic.php?t=90850

I focus on mech, what we should be claiming, potential town power roles, how we look if specific players die at night. I don't talk about player meta in the mafia pt at all.

noted

[ssbm_Kyouko]

It feels like you, T3, were familiar with that, and you delivered the evidence of town!Klick to me unprompted, and in a manner that I would normally find Klick to be town for myself if this particular SR on Klick was based on his verbiage.

Is this in reference to 503 and 516?

503 is his initial reaction to me SRing Klick - I don't think that it's reasonable for him to have read 495 and think that my issue with Klick is that he used the words "convince me" without prior knowledge that this is the kind of thing I am liable to push on from time to time.

516 is the unprompted evidence that Klick uses this verbiage as town

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Dunn and mines bottom tier is mostly the same as yours so I don’t see how town you reads 2 ppl as scummy if they share similar views as you

I still don't actually know what this means

Dunn you and I share very similar bottom scumreads

It makes 0 sense for town you to have those bottom scumreads and also scumread Dunn and I

I disagree with this as reasoning on quite a few levels -

1. I don't actually have a conscious awareness of yours and Dunn's scumreads, and didn't when I developed my reads. My read on yourself and Dunn is independent of your reads on anyone else.

2. The bottom reads themselves are not particularly controversial, I don't think? To the point where I wouldn't be surprised if there were, say, three scum in my bottom six, and the last partner decided to have their scumbuddies all towards the bottom.

3. I also don't think my lower reads at this stage are powerful enough to justify them shifting my view of other players based on them. If anything, the bottom of my list is the bottom mostly because the top have pulled away from them, not the other way around.

4. I don't even scumread you or Dunnstral.

What do you think about the fact that Gamma has an acute awareness of your and Wheme's scumreads?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I'm saying {Pooky/Penguin/STD} is a unit that i expect to be high % scum because none of you are towny and idk what else scum is intentionally doing at all if they're not involved there

I think this would make more sense if you made the group {Penguin, STD}. and even then I wouldn't agree there is "high%" - ">rand" maybe?

More importantly though, why is Pooky a part of the group if Penguin and STD are following his vote around? Independent of other players, how is he scum?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Like your reaction feels so tailor-made to me, and it's also totally unprompted, it just feels too perfect to be a coincidence.

Why are you voting STD instead of any of those names you mentioned?

because what I said is whack and nobody is going to listen

And why does that stop you from voting them?

I don't think it will accomplish anything right now. I think I'd be better served to keep T3, Gamma, and Koba at an arm's length, watch them for something more concretely scummy that people will listen to, and attack later

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Dunn and mines bottom tier is mostly the same as yours so I don’t see how town you reads 2 ppl as scummy if they share similar views as you

I still don't actually know what this means

Dunn you and I share very similar bottom scumreads

It makes 0 sense for town you to have those bottom scumreads and also scumread Dunn and I

I disagree with this as reasoning on quite a few levels -

1. I don't actually have a conscious awareness of yours and Dunn's scumreads, and didn't when I developed my reads. My read on yourself and Dunn is independent of your reads on anyone else.

2. The bottom reads themselves are not particularly controversial, I don't think? To the point where I wouldn't be surprised if there were, say, three scum in my bottom six, and the last partner decided to have their scumbuddies all towards the bottom.

3. I also don't think my lower reads at this stage are powerful enough to justify them shifting my view of other players based on them. If anything, the bottom of my list is the bottom mostly because the top have pulled away from them, not the other way around.

4. I don't even scumread you or Dunnstral.

What do you think about the fact that Gamma has an acute awareness of your and Wheme's scumreads?

What does this even mean

Based on Klick's point #1 about why he disagrees with Wheme's reasoning, I expect him to feel that town is not considering someone's scumreads when forming a read on them.

However, you scumread Wheme because his scumreads line up partially with the scumreads in 597 from Klick - meaning you are considering Wheme's reads. I think Wheme's rebuttal makes a lot of sense (Dunn and Wheme are in the second from the bottom tier) and that the reason you voted Wheme is very shallow (Wheme's scumreads are in Klick's bottom tier so Klick asspulled his disagreement with the list), but I wanted to know what Klick thought about this.

It seems like you are paying more attention to who scumreads who, and picked out a very surface-level issue to "gotcha" Wheme with. I feel like it's something Klick should take issue with but he excuses it as something he expects you to be doing. I'm weighing the possibility now that he's right.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

deflecting

weird interpretation of what i was doing - but one i expect from you towards me given my experience with you over the years

What would you say you were doing? I think deflection is an apt description.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

his case/argument essentially boils down to;

[a] Well I think scum have to be

doing something

in this game

Since Pooky/STD/PP are the ones actively wagoning together in a unit, they must be scum because they are the ones

doing something

this game

This isn't true because in a stagnant game state where not a lot of threatening wagons have appeared and the thread is more or less lethargic because holidays/rl/whatever the scum

do not need to do anything because there is no threat to them

I think you know his point is complete garbage because in your last large theme as scum you didn't do anything and the scum team had no actual plan or tried to do anything and you're just kind of handwaving it to attack me for focusing on it like you expect town!me to not focus on a shitty argument when someone presents it and uses it to push me which is nonsensical.

To be clear, the more you loop back to this, the more I think you are mafia. It doesn't really matter to me whether the three of you voting together is a good way to catch you or not.

I think I did this with Pooky (hydra Smoke and Mirrors) in owners market blitz - I think he'd bring it up over and over again as town. Idk if I've played with scum!Pooky

[ssbm_Kyouko]

the entire premise of your argument is that the "scum team" is trying to "accomplish some goal" by "this point in the game"

here is a completed large theme with Dunnstral in it that finished

viewtopic.php?t=91817

you look at the first 32 pages of that game and you tell me what the fuck the scum team is trying to accomplish

You weren't in this game, is there a reason you brought this game up?

T3 wasn't in Hollow Knight as far as I could tell, is there a reason you

didn't

bring that up?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Here's the situation as i understand it and why i think it's a misunderstanding, this will probably be the only post i make in the matter and only coz i wanna try and facilitate you guys understanding each other. I don't really want to add up to this "war" between i wanna end it instead.

Klick

: The argument here is that the 3 were voting together but are also

Independently scummy

is just another reason to think they are scum.

Pooky

: The argument here is that he's hyperfocusing on one thing, but that was also part of Klick's and Dunnstral's push of him so he was trying to understand the push to sort them.

Dunnstral

: On your case, I'm not sure i think it was just an engagement born of misunderstanding what Pooky was doing and so you ended up wrongly enphasising those points.

Did i get that right?

Yeah that's a decent summary of my perspective

I think Dunnstral genuinely believes Pooky is scum here though and doesn't want to *let go* on that basis

I agree that moving on in some capacity would be a lot better for thread health

I thought your whole thing was that

others are towny

, not that

Pooky, STD, and PP are independently scummy

?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

So what made you put ssbm_Kyouko as top townread never change by post 210 where you first made your list?

if koba were town and I were scum this game he'd know it by like page 5 tops

[ssbm_Kyouko]

If koba says I'm town, I'm town. I have the receipts to back it up if needed but if he ever flips town I'm basically IC

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I'm curious where the STD wagon came from
UNVOTE:

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Like everyone magically agrees Pooky/Klick/Dunn is all town and then votes STD and I dont see a connection

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I'm curious where the STD wagon came from
UNVOTE:

Like everyone magically agrees Pooky/Klick/Dunn is all town and then votes STD and I dont see a connection

What we're your thoughts on the Cakez and jjh wagons?

These were the wagons that STD and PP followed Pooky on I assume? I thought it showed people were fine letting Pooky do what he wants which means he's probably town. The case on Cakez was unconvincing and I don't remember what the case on jjh was - I think it was just BCG saying he has low post count and then a bunch of people voted jjh, starting with Pooky.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I'm curious where the STD wagon came from

Do you think STD is good? If so, why?

Like town? Not individually no, but I need to look into what was going on leading up to that wagon and examine the votes. Feels like he might be a "default" wagon that caught momentum too fast which makes me think some other wagon was about to happen on scum and one of the votes on STD now is scum that steered the wagon away from someone else who is also scum

[ssbm_Kyouko]

[Big Chungus, Luka, Pooky, Alisae, Whemestar] <- Confident Towns
[Sakura, Penguin, Klick] <- Second Tier Towns
[JJH, Ceph, T3] <- Everybody else not listed
{Dunnstural, Kaiwaii} <- Scum Lean
[Gamma, Save the Dragons] <- Scums

[Big Chungus, Luka, Pooky, Alisae, Whemestar] <- Confident Towns
[Sakura, Penguin, Klick] <- Second Tier Towns
[JJH, Save the Dragons]] <- Above Null
[Ceph, T3] <- Null
{Dunnstural, Kaiwaii} <- Scum Lean
[Gamma, Cakez] <- Scums

?

what changed in two minutes?

[Big Chungus, Luka, Pooky, Alisae, Whemestar] <- Confident Towns
[Sakura, Penguin, Klick] <- Second Tier Towns
[JJH, Ceph, T3] <- Everybody else not listed
{Dunnstural, Kaiwaii} <- Scum Lean
[Gamma, Save the Dragons] <- Scums

[Big Chungus, Luka, Pooky, Alisae, Whemestar] <- Confident Towns
[Sakura, Penguin, Klick] <- Second Tier Towns
[JJH, Save the Dragons]] <- Above Null
[Ceph, T3] <- Null
{Dunnstural, Kaiwaii} <- Scum Lean
[Gamma, Cakez] <- Scums

?

what changed in two minutes?

my reads

fair enough

what happened in two minutes that led to you changing your reads

How's it feel penguin? Feels pretty good from where I'm sitting

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Ok that checks out (Dunn)

[ssbm_Kyouko]

T3 did you mean 499 or a different post?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

And yeah it's possible you misunderstood

something

, I don't think 499 was the right post number. It just felt too on the nose to be a coincidence so I'll be watching

[ssbm_Kyouko]

So how much of the thread have you read, and what made you vote ssbm_Kyouko?

I see all

Kyouko's STD vote followed by later unvote and apparent confusion at the wagon is my primary point of focus. Voting STD with the intention of generating content should be known to be completely pointless because STD won't do that. I don't think the 'default wagon' line of reasoning works from the standpoint of one who was willing to vote there initially

I didnt vote him to make him produce content, I voted him because I thought he could be scum trying to sheep along with Pooky.

When his wagon caught on so fast as others' fell off, it felt to me like probably he's not scum if his wagon is so easy. Seems like he was the rebound to keep momentum going and prevent a slowdown where people might start searching around more for scum instead of wagoning what is in front of them.

Also I voted STD when nobody else was doing it, when he was not a 'default' (rebound) wagon. I got off the wagon once it became that, so the two are not mutually exclusive.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

1035 is where I'm leaving off

[ssbm_Kyouko]

i think the fact that absolutely no1 wants to help me vote dunnstral means he's just mafia

This doesnt make sense I dont think

[ssbm_Kyouko]

[Big Chungus, Luka, Pooky, Alisae, Whemestar] <- Confident Towns
[Sakura, Penguin, Klick] <- Second Tier Towns
[JJH, Save the Dragons]] <- Above Null
[Ceph, T3] <- Null
{Dunnstural, Kaiwaii} <- Scum Lean
[Gamma, Cakez] <- Scums

Gamma Cepheral Dunnstural Cakez is looking very funny rn
Fairly certain top 2 tiers are pure

I think I've been left off your list like 3 times now

[ssbm_Kyouko]

VOTE: gamma until Ali tells me otherwise

No

[ssbm_Kyouko]

the wagon on me is actually garbage

VOTE: SirCakes

stop hiding and fight me

VOTE: SirCakes

stop hiding and fight me

seeing this made me realize i completely forgot to move cakez's name in my reads list and ill just make it ambiguous bc its more fun that way

VOTE: sircakez

VOTE: cakez

VOTE: cakez

I'm the trash collector and I'm here to summon the garbage back to this wagon
VOTE: Cakez

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I also agree with sentiments Kawaii seems to be falling off, but this is where scum is^

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I'm too town for elim and I don't even have to try hard to do it

I have to vote this bullshit
VOTE: alisae

this is a wolfclaim from cakez btw.
I know him enough to know this

Alisae prob town if I haven't said already (I've been thinking it). I don't think that scum!Alisae would see my cakez vote, connect it to this post, and automatically go doomer on cakez' inevitable lim, even if e does know cakez well enough to know that cakez betrayed himself with that one.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

VOTE: Dunnstral

who the fuck am i even voting

come back to Cakez

[ssbm_Kyouko]

??????
The fuck does a hydra have to do with anything

Anyway, I think kyouko should not be viewing Cakez calling the wagon on him trash as negatively as she is

Oh, my vote is not about that post but I see why you think that. I was just calling his former voters back to the wagon.

My way of reading Cakez is similar to how I've read you in the past. He's saying something he doesn't mean when he votes Alisae

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Working on a {Gamma, Cakez, T3?, ???} solve rn. I was just reading Gamma's ISO as some recent posts pinged me and I realize now she's scum

confident in scum!Gamma
somewhat confident in scum!Cakez
Mostly pre-flipping T3 into this team based on scum!Gamma's interactions with/around the slot combined with the fact T3 posted that Klick meta for me unprompted. This could be town even with scum!Gamma but I feel like the way Gamma's played around this slot TMIs a buddy

Doesn't matter
BCG - BCG can read me like 100% of the time as town, so as scum he can't really mislim me without looking really bad, and as town he's being truthful that he's likely to die within the first few Nights, which, frankly, is good news for me. I don't have any need to read him.

confident town
Alisae - Don't think e's bussing. It just isn't the time - have explained this one already p sure
Whemestar - vibes mostly, and I can see from Gamma's posting Wheme is town.

TR
Sakura - Couldn't really point to anything specific from memory, and I'm making this mostly from memory, but I feel like I've had this feeling about her since early on and nothing she posts ever makes me doubt it. Many things she posts reinforce this for me.
Luka - I feel like I had a concrete reason early on, he was one of my earliest TRs. I can't remember right now. I do think given his recent posting while Cakez catches heat this could potentially be the 4th scum who is in a decent position right now. If I'm TRing scum, this is it.
Klick/Duelist Kage - DK had a sussy entrance but I feel like I've been watching Klick gradually improve his solve without making any unreasonable jumps, and I think his reasoning on KK is well-written. I don't get the feeling that was scum!Klick whiteknighting or anything. If I'm not mistaken, Alisae has maybe vouched for this slot as well?
KawaiiKame - I have reason to believe KK sheeping me early on was town-motivated, and I agree with the towncase presented by Klick.

TL
jjh - Early chuuni posting was kinda cringe, but the whole "lord and savior sort by post count" wagon on him felt too easy, and his recent posting looks better. I feel like I disagree with a lot of his reads but that he is probably still town just looking at the whole game
Cephrir - mostly this is vibes, but I also think that STD can be taken at his word regardless of his alignment. It seems like these 2 have a history to the point that if STD were scum, he has to hard play around Cephrir. Which means either STD is scum and has TMIed Cehprir, or STD is town and this is a meta read that is reasonably strong and can be sheeped.

null
Pooky - Not sure - early on have had him as town, because people were sheeping him around, but I feel like scum!Pooky is probably expected to lead charges like that and what we've seen so far is NAI. I'm actually going to drop him from TL to null now that I'm writing this. He's more like nulltown but I don't want to add a new section.
Dunnstral - idk, really I just remember someone recently saying he did mech talk in the beginning and that's kinda snooze to me because mech-oriented players are going to talk mech as a NAI thing.

nullscum
STD - I don't really know what makes him towny aside from him being the rebound/default wagon after others were dying off. As I said in Cephrir's explanation, I think STD has to make that read on Cephrir if he's scum and Ceph is town, so I don't want to give towncred to STD for it.
Penguinpower - an actual batman villain (The Riddler)
T3 - Just makes a lot of sense for him to be scum if Gamma is scum, and Gamma is scum.

SR
Cakez - I've pointed out the post that makes Cakez scum but don't want to explain why it does in case I play with him again in the future

confident scum
Gamma - I am to be trusted

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I have literally no idea how to read Gamma, but Kyouko, if she's a super confident SR, why would you rather eliminate Cakez first? (Judging by your current vote)

I worry if I die Cakez might get away (not worried about Gamma getting away), and also I think wagoning Cakez will be more productive. I think wagons on both of them will help find 3rd/4th scum.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Like if I had a bomb or whatever I would case Gamma and then bomb Cakez

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Like if I had a bomb or whatever I would case Gamma and then bomb Cakez

Why wouldn’t you just case me now?

probably will tomorrow, now it's after-hours for me

[ssbm_Kyouko]

i think if cakez is scum here i dont think anyone actually really caught him on merit of finding him not town, but rather sheer luck of scumreading him for playstyle, and I lean that cakez is kinda town here

This is an open call-to-action until stated otherwise: if kyouko attempts to eliminate Cakez after I die, kill her.

you are defending a wolfclaimed player

Do. You. Think. I. Give. A. Shit. What. You. Think?

I want to town lock this

just FYI gamma can channel frustration as scum too, but if you know Gamma, you can tell the subtleties of scum gamma frustration and town gamma frustration when it is a prolonged matter

The same applies to Cakez - you can look at his games and figure out the subtleties in what looks like "playstyle" to figure out the differences between town!Cakez and scum!Cakez

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Mostly pre-flipping T3 into this team based on scum!Gamma's interactions with/around the slot

Such as?

Will put them in a wall of Gamma quotes tomorrow

[ssbm_Kyouko]

chipotle is cutting corners like crazy internally and pushing growth of growth nonsense by sacrificing quality

They love my wife at my chipotle (they love her everywhere we go) so we get hookup bowls every time even from new employees because the other employees not on the line recognize us. We got our bowls for less than half price once, pretty sure the guy on cash just used his shift meal code for us or something, because we saw him hitting something extra on the register after ringing us in

[ssbm_Kyouko]

just spotted Klick on 12000 total posts, nice

Also Dunn is posting barely more than he did in Isekai if you take his D1 post count in Isekai and divide it by the total D1 posts, and do the same here. I wouldn't really look at D2 because I Tracked him to the kill on N1 so obviously he was going to be posting more D2 trying to wriggle out of that one

[ssbm_Kyouko]

but actually taking player count into account he's posting like exactly 1/17th of the posts here with 17 alive, and in Isekai he posted a little over half of what 1/13th of the playerlist would be posting, so he's posting here more than he did in Isekai, relative to the player count and total posts of both games' D1s

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Also the deadline in this game will be on a Sunday and I will only be on sporadically over the weekend as usual

[ssbm_Kyouko]

but actually taking player count into account he's posting like exactly 1/17th of the posts here with 17 alive, and in Isekai he posted a little over half of what 1/13th of the playerlist would be posting, so he's posting here more than he did in Isekai, relative to the player count and total posts of both games' D1s

explain

The math I did:
Isekai:
156 Dunnstral posts / 3300 D1 posts (the actual number was around 3360 but I cut some down to account for mod posting and to use a nice number) = 4.72% of the total posts.
13 players alive on D1, so 1/13 is about as much as any one player should be posting if everyone is posting equally: 1/13 = 7.69%.
Half of 7.69 is around 3.8 - Dunn is posting a little more than half of what's "expected" of a player in a 13p game when he is scum in Isekai

This game:
95 Dunnstral posts / 1600 D1 posts at the time I made 1639 (the actual number was around 1630, but again, I cut some off to account for mod posting and to use an even number. Seemed fair to cut about half off of this as I did off of Isekai, due to the posts being approximately half of Isekai's in this game) = 5.94%
this game has 17 players - 1/17 = 5.88%, which is almost exactly what Dunn is posting. He's actually posting slightly more than the "expected" in this game.

Because he posts slightly more than half the "expected" in Isekai and posts almost exactly the "expected" here, overall I'd say he's posting about twice as much (a little less than that) in this game as he did in Isekai.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

The math isn't relevant at all here, I just like doing math and I got curious about proving one way or the other that Dunn was posting more/less

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Cakez and Gamma tells are the same tell with different outlets, which is why I'm pretty confident in Cakez, because it looks the same to me, and the tell has been accurate on Gamma.

For Cakez - he uses the word bullshit or bs from time to time, as both alignments, but he misuses it as scum. He uses it in situations where he surely does not have full conviction about what he is saying.

Gamma does the same thing when she gets heated. She says things that she would say as either alignment, but the words lack conviction. I recently read through 10+ games of Gamma's looking for posts with these types of words and correctly identified her alignment in all of the games that contained 'heated' posts. I also was able to guess correctly most, if not all of the time when the tell was not present just by skimming her ISO. I know she is scum here.

Reviewing Cakez's games I am less confident because I didn't spend as much time doing it as I did Gamma, and I specifically sought out games where he said bs or bullshit, checked his alignment first, and then checked the context to see if his use of the word felt justified. It seemed reasonably easy to tell when his usage lacked conviction, though I did know he was scum when looking. With Gamma's games I didn't check her alignment first and I read all of her games. With Cakez i could search for a key word and find specific games.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

It doesn't really do harm to out these tells I think because the conviction is difficult to fake for Gamma, that's why the tell is effective. I dont know if the same will hold true for Cakez, but the nature of the tell is that it is hard to mask anyways.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

And if I'm outing it I dont really think Cakez gets away if any town is willing to do legwork on my claim after I die

VOTE: Gamma

If we go to Night phase maybe I'll put Cakez meta case into my last will thingy

[ssbm_Kyouko]

These are what I'm referring to with Gamma

Spoiler: the quotes

btw gun to head if competent players haven't TR'd Gamma yet then she probably is just a wolf.
I remember Gamma being like super easy to TR when she's town so.

I hate everything about this read
How about you don’t hide behind some third-rate BoP technobabble and actually give a real opinion?

what are you going to do
vote me

viewtopic.php?t=91760 here gamma was very easy to tr early

Shut the fuck up, you don’t get to claim you correctly TRed me in that game after your meltdown in reaction to being wagoned

what are you going to do
vote me

Maybe
Depends on how I feel at the end of this

cry about it

nothing u say is going to make me actually give a fuck to play, I play on my own time, sorry.

I'm too town for elim and I don't even have to try hard to do it

VOTE: alisae
this feels like a possible scum play and I just fucking hate your guts rn so you exiting the game is an improvement

I'm too town for elim and I don't even have to try hard to do it

fucking bet

I have minimal tolerance for players approaching me in bad faith

Hate is a strong word

your point being? Alisae’s read on me is absolutely trash-tier, he knows it, and is avoiding addressing the real issues by stating “I play on my own time”.
You even said your vote on me would be removed when Alisae said to, so you are the exact reason why that garbage needs to be called out.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

She says things that she would say as either alignment, but the words lack conviction.

How does this track at all?

Put Gamma into a

situation

where someone has upset her somehow. She will normally have a heated reaction like we see 1303, for example. I can look at the

situation

that leads up to it and the reaction by Gamma, and see a couple of ways to identify if Gamma is town or scum from it. One way is, Gamma will have an over the top reaction that feels disproportionate to the

situation

. This reaction feels "hollow" when I read it even though the words are meant to be "powerful" when Gamma is making the post. When she is town, the reaction doesn't feel "hollow" to me. I can tell when she means what she's saying fully, somehow. It's hard to explain how I can tell, but the key lies in measuring the cause against the reaction, and feeling whether the words ring truly or if they feel hollow.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

With Cakez, I don't know how he's "supposed" to sound so I can only measure the cause against the reaction to determine if the descriptor "bs"/"bullshit" is warranted. I would have to play with him a lot to get a feel for his vernacular and his tone

[ssbm_Kyouko]

When Cakez is town and he calls something bs or bullshit he really means it - like the things he calls out, you can tell they really bother him a lot. Sometimes he's arguing with scum, sometimes TvTing with someone particularly headstrong.

As scum he uses it more freely and arbitrarily, almost like a buzzword. It's like a LAMIST tell except he's saying "look at me this is my towngame, I'm heckin' mad"

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I dont think either of the reactions these two had to Alisae were commensurate with er posting, and Gamma's feels hollow, or fake, or forced, however you want to describe it.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I'm not trying to encourage anyone to bait you. I'm just telling it how it is and I think T3's your buddy here but if he's not and he isn't acting on your behalf right now, I'm sorry I have to go into details to convince him.

I do think he's being asked to handwave it in the scum PT though

[ssbm_Kyouko]

These are what I'm referring to with Gamma

Spoiler: the quotes

btw gun to head if competent players haven't TR'd Gamma yet then she probably is just a wolf.
I remember Gamma being like super easy to TR when she's town so.

I hate everything about this read
How about you don’t hide behind some third-rate BoP technobabble and actually give a real opinion?

what are you going to do
vote me

viewtopic.php?t=91760 here gamma was very easy to tr early

Shut the fuck up, you don’t get to claim you correctly TRed me in that game after your meltdown in reaction to being wagoned

what are you going to do
vote me

Maybe
Depends on how I feel at the end of this

cry about it

nothing u say is going to make me actually give a fuck to play, I play on my own time, sorry.

I'm too town for elim and I don't even have to try hard to do it

VOTE: alisae
this feels like a possible scum play and I just fucking hate your guts rn so you exiting the game is an improvement

I'm too town for elim and I don't even have to try hard to do it

fucking bet

I have minimal tolerance for players approaching me in bad faith

Hate is a strong word

your point being? Alisae’s read on me is absolutely trash-tier, he knows it, and is avoiding addressing the real issues by stating “I play on my own time”.
You even said your vote on me would be removed when Alisae said to, so you are the exact reason why that garbage needs to be called out.

Maybe the reason I lack conviction is I have seen Alisae openly play in bad faith so I see getting rid of em as a “cleaning up” measure. Have you tried considering that?

I'll think about this - as I recall there was a town game of yours I read in that recent meta dive where Alisae was the subject of your ire

[ssbm_Kyouko]

VOTE: Alisae

I have no real read on Peng or jjh and I think that limming Alisae is strictly better for town’s EV

I expect em to to be more beneficial as town than e would be hard to catch as scum

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Yoink

[ssbm_Kyouko]

@Gamma I'm just going to need the name of a game you were town and got mad at Alisae's bad faith play I don't have time to run it down
As for my vote toDay it doesn't look like Gamma or Cakez will be it so I'll probably just join some TRs on a wagon that I don't TR

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Alisae, Wheme, Luka, Klick, Sakura - wherever the majority of these go I'll probably go as long as it's not on one of them or on KK, preferably not Cephrir but I'm willing to accept my reasoning for jjh is not strong enough to take him off the table for D1 "compromise" type voting

[ssbm_Kyouko]

obviously there aren't only 5 other townies in this game but I don't like that my highest TRs are split up and that my highest SRs are voting for my middle-of-the-pack reads. I feel like I'm going to end up compromising on town toDay

[ssbm_Kyouko]

VOTE: Cakez

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Day 1 - Our Story Begins
Vote Count 1.19

jjh927 [6][E-3] - Alisae, Cephrir, Klick, Whemestar, Save The Dragons, Penguinpower,
Dunnstral [3][E-6] - PookytheMagicalBear, Luka, Sakura Hana,
Alisae [3][E-6] - SirCakez, KawaiiKame, T3,
PenguinPower [2][E-7]- Dunnstral, Gamma Emerald,
Gamma Emerald [2][E-7] - ssbm_Kyouko, Big Chungus Gaming,

Lurking in Shadows (Not Voting - 1) : jjh927,

With 17 Alive, It Takes 9 to Eliminate.
Deadline is (expired on 2024-01-07 15:45:00)

Mod Note: jjh927 has been prodded

First 4 on the jjh wagon seem pure. STD maybe pure, PP questionable. With plurality in effect, voting him now won't even mean that scum need to hammer him and incriminate themselves unfortunately.
Dunn - Luka and Sakura are here - not sure about Pooky in this game, but I feel better about jjh than Dunn and STD moved from jjh to Dunn recently, as did PP. Feel like STD and PP have been moving around together throughout the day, don't think scum would be that blatant all day even after they get called out on it. If Dunn is scum maybe one is bussing because it would look weird if they

didn't

vote Dunn atp
Alisae wagon is trash - idk why KK is voting there maybe I should look into that.
Gamma right now voting PP

with

Dunnstral, and I do agree that I don't really see the jjh wagon's merit beyond "lurker" - I could go around in circles with the WIFOM of it so I'll just leave this alone - though I already didn't think the jjh lim would be good.
BCG is just against the Dunn lim it looks like and so he was voting Gamma and now is voting PP, the counterwagon. This seems odd that he didn't vote jjh instead of Gamma maybe? Actually no, looking at the VC, Gamma's wagon was the leading wagon as Dunnstral's was picking up steam.

I kinda want to see what this brings tbh. scum!Dunn looks bad for BCG
VOTE: Dunnstral

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Looks like 4 of my top 5 town say Dunn could be scum or have him in the bottom quarter/third of their readslist. Wheme is the one that thinks town!Dunn

[ssbm_Kyouko]

objectively i am one of the most cleared players off dunn mafia but please keep pushing the silly surface level assumption that "defended them d1 so must be mafia"

stop using whos on the wagon and preflips to determine your reads

but also i would atp put money on dunn flipping town so i hope you eat a heaping pile of crow for it bc it seems like thats the scum agenda wagon now

I'm not SRing you, I think I've found a good block of town players I'm confident in though, and they all seem to agree Dunn is scummy. I've got him at null myself, can't say I have any idea how to read him. The one time I caught him as scum was in Isekai where I tracked him to the NK. The only reason I even tracked him was because I thought he was so town he'd get killed later on and I was an activated Watcher that had to track my target before I was allowed to target them with my Watcher ability. I was literally setting up to catch the scum that killed Dunn in the game where he was scum because he had me and the rest of the playerlist that snowed.

When I was looking at why you were voting Gamma it seemed pretty clear the reason was because you think Dunn is town, which also explains why you'd be voting PP now. It's not a crime to misread scum as town, or to defend your TRs by voting the counterwagon at the end of day, but if he flips scum, it

does start to look bad

. No denying that.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

but also i would atp put money on dunn flipping town so i hope you eat a heaping pile of crow for it bc it seems like thats the scum agenda wagon now

Instead of this sidelining tell me who the scum is pushing the Dunn agenda so I can vote them pls ty.

Do you agree dunn is a proscum wagon or are you just looking for more meaningful commentary from BCG?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Idg why pp is happening

Everything feels wrong now I'm gonna VOTE: pooky uselessly for a bit

Dunn wagon is also happening, in fact it's happening moreso than PP, Dunn's leading on 6 votes (E-3) - do you include this in "everything" that feels wrong? You just moved from jjh (dissolving wagon) to Pooky (no wagon)

[ssbm_Kyouko]

That sounds a lot more plausible than Gamma/Pooky/Cakez/T3 but that's my story and I'm sticking to it

I don't think I've ever "known it" like this on a D1 and then never second guessed it but I knew it this one time ^.^
I think I've probably had times that I said {x, y, z} and later changed my mind to {x, y, w} or whatever and been wrong about "w" but it feels pretty good especially versus a 4 player team. Scum really clawed this one back, good game everyone <3

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I think it was Pooky in the scum PT that said to you that "you know [Kyouko] is right, but she doesn't" and that's kind of an eye-opener to me. Like something to look for that I didn't know to look for before I guess. Like sure it's an informed response and at a basic level I already know to look for that but it's more nuanced than that I guess