Shell Game (Day 8)

[Shello and Goodbye]

ok gypyx is prob town i think

[Shello and Goodbye]

i have very meh reads on everyone it, i dont' especially mind limming in it
probably prefer like sunflower > experience >wolfbae > std > marci

[Shello and Goodbye]

I don't especially think experience is going go flip scum here

[Shello and Goodbye]

I kind of want to start wrapping up the day

[Shello and Goodbye]

Ok good can we do that at some point ...

[Shello and Goodbye]

Can people in the hood who are planning on giving out inventions tonight - *not* give them to people who have another role (i.e. people in the hood, myself, morph, masons, etc)

[Shello and Goodbye]

i’ve been in the weekend trenches but have skimmed a little bit

i think experience could be town honestly but i had similar sentiments about brian so im okay with that elim going through i think? more than gypyx who felt okay after recent posting. also i’m nursing a secret wolfread that makes me feel very smart if it’s correct and silly if it’s not and therefore i will not say it

- ydra

[Shello and Goodbye]

Did marci say that she gave her invention to wolf or did i make fhat up

[Shello and Goodbye]

Yeah ok that's what i thought

Ok i think i want to just lim thru the hood - the efficacy of getting usable results any time in the near future goes down substantially given that marci/wolf/us have 3 of the 5 inventions

I'm also wondering if we're disabled to prevent 2 people from the hood dying each phase at this point

VOTE: sunflower

I'm fine if we end on experience too but gun to head i think they're just out-of-it town

[Shello and Goodbye]

Maybe, but i'm kinda dubious we'll manage to

[Shello and Goodbye]

Um, maybe? We have no idea

[Shello and Goodbye]

I think i'd rather lim sunflower than experience

[Shello and Goodbye]

I had the same thought fwiw

[Shello and Goodbye]

Like i think we might eventually manage to get a cc between sanities but like we might also just lim the cc .... i'm not sure it matters so much really

[Shello and Goodbye]

Seem reasonabls enuf to me

[Shello and Goodbye]

But probably divide it amongst living hood people

[Shello and Goodbye]

Out of curiosity, was the masons thing known in your hood last night?

[Shello and Goodbye]

I think of the most popular suggestions I would prefer Gypyx or Sunflower today. I don't feel as good about eliminating experience after their recent posts.

Ok can u vote sunflower plz

[Shello and Goodbye]

I think dueling sunflower and experience wagons seems like fun

[Shello and Goodbye]

What do u think of dueling wagons on u and experience

[Shello and Goodbye]

You seem MUCH more interested in "winning" and "clearing" this accusation than you do in advancing the game state, my dude(s).

yeah bc i personally dislike the accusation and it also is what people are talking about right now

im happy to talk about other things

Can you talk abt who's scum and why we should lim them?

[Shello and Goodbye]

Yeah ig i have a hard time with morph claiming a guilty as scum and then walking it back after our claim - if they're scum why was it walked back other than to just randomly try to force us to claim?

Pedit ig do you think that's likely?

[Shello and Goodbye]

I think i want to put std down as a townlean

[Shello and Goodbye]

what was i before

Nullscum

[Shello and Goodbye]

I'm kinda just assuming there's a vig dis-enabler out there

[Shello and Goodbye]

i think it would be a lot more plausible that scum shello trueclaimed an unlock condition

there's not anything that would indicate that clearing the hood would reward town mechanically. that's a pretty big reward already

that or ceph believes that vigs are negative utility for town

I mean do u think that's we're scum doing that?

[Shello and Goodbye]

Oooooh i like that

[Shello and Goodbye]

Why are we killing experience over sunflower, again?

I have the same question

[Shello and Goodbye]

Who is katniss

[Shello and Goodbye]

My gut also says that new katniss needs to be thrown into the furnace when I'm looking at old VC's. This is subject to change, but right now I think I am looking at

{Penguin, Sunflower (it could be experience too, I'm also really not happy about NOONE catching the mech fuckups), (Firebringer/Cakeboy (preference fire now), Bagel}

Which also feels again like the whole sort by postcount and doesn't feel great? i dunno. There's also this tiny part of my brain that's still thinking about why old Katniss said that Pooky died and comparing it with how wolfbae came into the thread with the controversial read on dunn, feeling like it *was* an attempt to shake up the townbloc and immerse into it, but I am not at all confident about it, I just want to speak this into the thread and see what others thought.

I'd be very, very happy to lim fire as well ....

[Shello and Goodbye]

Why are we killing experience over sunflower, again?

I have the same question

can you talk about your read on me

Never had any reason to townread you and i can see a universe where experience's play comes from town and i want to lim in the hood
And i think std/marci are probably town, peta i'm not sure on and probably isn't viable today anyways

And like i said before this game is massive i'm kinda cool limming anyone i don't townread (albeit with preferances for some slots over others)

[Shello and Goodbye]

Hmmm. I kinda wish I recorded it because I do feel said frustration tends to be less than rand town, such as skitter/prism in the mini that shall not be named, various members of tenet purely as an example.

Hm.

(Uh i was town in both of those situations ...)

[Shello and Goodbye]

Why are we killing experience over sunflower, again?

I have the same question

can you talk about your read on me

Never had any reason to townread you and i can see a universe where experience's play comes from town and i want to lim in the hood

What reasons do you have to townread experience though?

Is scum that clueless?

[Shello and Goodbye]

Why are we killing experience over sunflower, again?

I have the same question

can you talk about your read on me

Never had any reason to townread you and i can see a universe where experience's play comes from town and i want to lim in the hood

What reasons do you have to townread experience though?

Is scum that clueless?

If he isn't groupscum, he's just playing solo like any town

So then he'd just be clueless but I don't know what that says about his alignment

Fair enuf, i forgot the hood might be a traitor

I kinda prefer sunflower but like won't complain too much if it's experience

[Shello and Goodbye]

Sunflower who should we be limming today ... ?

[Shello and Goodbye]

Ooooo
Ok then everything abt not realizing the mech of the hood is probably nai

I have to do an iso check but maybe this can be a traitor

[Shello and Goodbye]

Uh after reading his iso i still kinda think town ...

[Shello and Goodbye]

This game

[Shello and Goodbye]

Spoiler:

but i'll try putting more time aside for this game if it helps everybody read me
(tho i feel like a lot of people will be disappointed in my flip)

tho now that you say that, i think everybody will be pissed at me after my flip.
p-edit: @luke

do y'all want me to claim before i head to bed (for real this time)?

not that i think it'll change anything.

do y'all want me to claim before i head to bed (for real this time)?

I mean, sure, go ahead

i'm an inventor of cops of unknown reliability neighbor.
i targeted marci n1.

Isn't that everyones role in the dethy

i have no clue.

I think these quotes got scrambled but in particular 4539/4540/4895 prob don't come from scum

[Shello and Goodbye]

I think he looked ~ok there, and that he actually tried harder in that iso than this one ...

[Shello and Goodbye]

I don't think that iso is so similar to this one

[Shello and Goodbye]

Where does the dethy hood currentlu think scum is?

Does fire have a role beyond the cop shot?

We got fruit last night

[Shello and Goodbye]

Any reason not to just VOTE: Sunflower?

My only concern is that we pretty hard signaled this to be the next elim, and we know there is a bookie :/

There’s a claimed role that can nullify that though, I assumed shello would’ve used it yesterday

We did

[Shello and Goodbye]

Peta why were you scumcasing morph

I kinda think the copventions should be claimed honestly

[Shello and Goodbye]

I'm kind of surprised that morph died over the masons tbh

[Shello and Goodbye]

Ok if that was a thing i missed it

[Shello and Goodbye]

@std/wolf/marci/sunflower
Do you think there's scum in your hood, and if so, who?

[Shello and Goodbye]

We oddskept sunflower
Fine with ending on them but I don't want to rush the day

[Shello and Goodbye]

I do not want to lim dann

After resolving the hood I want to lim firebringer

Also anyone with a cop result should share it, but apparently there's just one unaccounted for i think

To be clear: fire claimed a pr in the hood overnight n1, and also got a cop shot n1, and got blocked from using the cop shot n2?

@fire/people in second hood is that what happened?

[Shello and Goodbye]

honestly don't get why scum would bother blocking me.

Pet theory that scum's cop inventor doesn't have a sanity and instead always returns no result

why are you choosing to disbelive the masons now?

How did you know that Firebringer received a cop?

?

[Shello and Goodbye]

Ok is there any reason for fire to not just fullclaim here? Does it make sense that he'd be roleblocked based on the claim

[Shello and Goodbye]

Yeah i'm a little weirded out

I want some clarity abt fire's role/claim

[Shello and Goodbye]

They have wim in the hood?

Ig i think other people in the hood are townier and the setup points to a scum in the hood ...

[Shello and Goodbye]

Yeah i'm a little weirded out

I want some clarity abt fire's role/claim

Let me discuss with herr and I’ll get back to you.

My pov is basically if we assume scum in both hoods they know everything already so why not share it

I don't know the nature of fire's claim but his lack of acting two night's in a row is suspicous, and i want to know if he got a copshot n1 or n2

[Shello and Goodbye]

@wolf:
- can you elaborate a bit more why you thought it's std
- did you give us the copshot n1
- why do you think you're so out of step? I'm having a hard time understanding how you got to the pov you had overnight

[Shello and Goodbye]

I think it would be kind of wild if there's no scum in the dethy hood

[Shello and Goodbye]

Sunflower > wolf > marci > std imo

[Shello and Goodbye]

Hi sunflower

Now that experience flipped town who is scum in your hood and why, thank you

[Shello and Goodbye]

VC 2.F

experience 11 (Dannflor, CSF, STD, wolfbae, Penguin, Sunflower, Lukewarm, Gypyx, Hermit, Bingle, Firebringer)
Sunflower 4 (Dunnstral, Shello, SirCakez, Spiffeh)
Gypyx 1 (Firebagel)

Not voting - Oblivion, experience, morph, marci

With 20 alive, it takes 11 to win a Darwin Award.

Deadline: (expired on 2024-05-16 20:12:00)

Doing my final double-check of the votes before flipping while also multitasking, please hold...

Votes on wagon i'd look at:

Wolf, penguin, luke, firebringer, sunflower

[Shello and Goodbye]

i think it would be cruel design and modding to give that kind of red herring so i think a wolf has to be in the hood

- ydra

[Shello and Goodbye]

@sunflower you gave us the copshot?

[Shello and Goodbye]

also in lieu of sunflower scum casing is there a good reason why they’re town? my defense of them was from very early in the game but i can’t think of anything particular that would mean they’re town

- ydra

[Shello and Goodbye]

@wolf: sorry, to clarify, i understand that casing morph meant that you're out of step, i'm asking more why/how you got to being out of step in the first place, thanks for explaining

Oops the unsigned ones are me

~ skitter

[Shello and Goodbye]

it is true if there are zero but i think it’s wildly misleading in a game even with this theming. it’s basically spitting in the face of anyone who tries to use mod provided information to solve the game for lol reasons

- ydra

[Shello and Goodbye]

also i still have the urge to murder wolfbae

why was this again

- ydra

[Shello and Goodbye]

IMO people being townier in the hood than out in public are more likely to be scum, hood control was a big part of how scum won tenet.

Essentially, Fires role has 3 components and is called a fortune teller? One component looks to the past and is like a tracker, one is a present day one (the snarglefargle thing) that I don’t think we know what it does, and the future one lets him pick someone in the future to redirect where they go(ie, he targets us n1 and makes us go to you n2)

Dunn and I both were a bit skeptical, particularly of the last part of that claim. Herr’s main holdup is he’s unsure if it makes sense for scum to have two separate redirection abilities.

Uh
Can he be the bus driver lol ?

[Shello and Goodbye]

IMO people being townier in the hood than out in public are more likely to be scum, hood control was a big part of how scum won tenet.

Essentially, Fires role has 3 components and is called a fortune teller? One component looks to the past and is like a tracker, one is a present day one (the snarglefargle thing) that I don’t think we know what it does, and the future one lets him pick someone in the future to redirect where they go(ie, he targets us n1 and makes us go to you n2)

Dunn and I both were a bit skeptical, particularly of the last part of that claim. Herr’s main holdup is he’s unsure if it makes sense for scum to have two separate redirection abilities.

Uh
Can he be the bus driver lol ?

Do you think the bus driver has a backup too?

Oh fair, i thought brian was a backup bus driver for a second

What did he want to be leashed to exactly?

~ skitter

[Shello and Goodbye]

Hi sunflower

Now that experience flipped town who is scum in your hood and why, thank you

hi

overnight i thought it was marci but that was in a morph scum world

it still could be but i'm not sure

i very very much don't think it's wolfbae and i would like to be given some time to explain why and have that at least be given some weight after i flip

Yes please, thank you

Can you also elaborate on STD a bit please?
Did you give us the invention n1?

[Shello and Goodbye]

Hi sunflower

Now that experience flipped town who is scum in your hood and why, thank you

hi

overnight i thought it was marci but that was in a morph scum world

it still could be but i'm not sure

i very very much don't think it's wolfbae and i would like to be given some time to explain why and have that at least be given some weight after i flip

Yes please, thank you

Can you also elaborate on STD a bit please?
Did you give us the invention n1?

yes we did

Why did you?

[Shello and Goodbye]

unless y'all think marci is mafia, one of the morph!scum belivers in the hood had to be lying knowing fully they were nightkilling morph

who looks the most fake when putting it under that light?

Or there's a traitor. ..

[Shello and Goodbye]

So experience-> marci
Marci -> sunflower but claimed by wolfbae -> this one got an inno on the miller
Wolfbae -> unclaimed
Std -> fire. Unclear if he used it but got rb'd
Sunflower -> us, unused

Ok so we're never solving these santies and i think we should just ignore it tbh

[Shello and Goodbye]

Was there any discussion in the hood abt who's scum in the hood after the experience flip

[Shello and Goodbye]

My stock on luke is going down

[Shello and Goodbye]

I think im back to susing my gal gypyx. Partly for being one of the 2 insta votes on sunflower, other part for todays posting.

I forget.
Were the cop shots used?

my items were stolen

@std/wolf/marci/sunflower
Do you think there's scum in your hood, and if so, who?

I think there is, but im unsure on who it is. i think theres points against all of them, but if i had to say i think theres the most against wolfbae but idk even.. i like his solving in the hood.

Im also ?? on firebringer for thinking theres no masons.

I don't think i doubt this but i'm kinda baffled why someone would steal your copshot given that it came from someone who's dead anyways

[Shello and Goodbye]

But we aren't going to be able to calibrate anyways but fair enuf

[Shello and Goodbye]

I can see wolfbae making a large scumcase overnight on someone they know is going to die tbh

But i think the fact that he's v purposefully taking a step back and not trying to force thread control is kinda +town for him

Maybe i'm at like

Sunflower > marci > wolfbae/std

[Shello and Goodbye]

One scum guaranteed in {Gypyx, Spiffeh, Oblivion, Luke, Firebagel}, ignoring my current reads, by the way.

-HM

How did you get there?

[Shello and Goodbye]

One scum guaranteed in {Gypyx, Spiffeh, Oblivion, Luke, Firebagel}, ignoring my current reads, by the way.

-HM

How did you get there?

I think thief is scum and those are the names of potential thief. Everyone else has claimed or hinted their roles.

-HM

Cakez and dunn have claimed in the hood then?
Do you not think the thief can be in the hood?

[Shello and Goodbye]

I mean are their actions proveable?

I don't think there's multitasking either but unless the action is proveablr we don't know they didn't do the other thing

(That goes for like me too)

Like i would put my role in a different category than fruit vendor for 'sniffing out lying claims' purposes

[Shello and Goodbye]

And you got a no result on the cop check ?

And why bingle ... ?

[Shello and Goodbye]

Out of 5 cop recipients,

Std -> FB one gave no result
Experience -> Marci got hers stolen
Marci -> One gave inno on CSF.
Sunflower -> One was given to Shello but hasn’t been used.
Wolfbae -> unclaimed

Was the last one ever claimed?

-HM

I edited the quote
Wolfbae i think you should claim where yours went

[Shello and Goodbye]

How did marci get fruit in the first place

[Shello and Goodbye]

Is it bad that i think we should just massclaim at this point

[Shello and Goodbye]

Also would groupscum know who the traitor is even?

[Shello and Goodbye]

Fwiw it does help us figure out who to oddskeep also, but we're also limited so eh

[Shello and Goodbye]

So fire u think scum are fake-claiming masons

[Shello and Goodbye]

I guess i have a hard time with scum deciding to fake-claim masons ...

Pedit also yeah why kill morph as scum if they believed it ...
Esp. after tbe elaborate softing thing

[Shello and Goodbye]

Ok sorry i'll stop
But i am trying to understand, but i do not, so it makes me think you're scum

Pedit they said it themselves. Ridiculous amount of thread control if hermit crab is scum and morph is townreading them that strongly + morph wants to push not-scum

[Shello and Goodbye]

What are your thoughts on the gamestate atm skitts

I want to find scum in the hood (sunflower?) and then focus on the scummy slots outside of it

I want ro collate the mechanics b/c i think it's likely things will get missed

[Shello and Goodbye]

Yeah fair enuf
Regardless i think scum-claiming-masons as a baseline proposal is kind of ? to me

[Shello and Goodbye]

VC 2.F

experience 11 (Dannflor, CSF, STD, wolfbae, Penguin, Sunflower, Lukewarm, Gypyx, Hermit, Bingle, Firebringer)
Sunflower 4 (Dunnstral, Shello, SirCakez, Spiffeh)
Gypyx 1 (Firebagel)

Not voting - Oblivion, experience, morph, marci

With 20 alive, it takes 11 to win a Darwin Award.

Deadline: (expired on 2024-05-16 20:12:00)

Doing my final double-check of the votes before flipping while also multitasking, please hold...

I'm like

Hermit/bingle
Dann, csf
Dunn, std
Wolfbae, spiffeh
Lukewarm, marci
Penguin, gypyx, cakez, bagel, oblivion
Sunflower, fire

I'm prob like hereabouts

[Shello and Goodbye]

I feel like he's trying to solve the game and that his takes are real. I still think his response to the luke scumcase of morph way back when was townie

[Shello and Goodbye]

This is a me readslist but ydra is scumreading both

Not sure if she'd like make exactly similar tiers tho

[Shello and Goodbye]

I don't understand the marci fruit stealing thing. How does her fruit getting stolen also tell her that invention stuff was stolen? And it wasn't clear whether that was the invention she received or the one she was trying to give out?

I have no intention of voting Sunflower and the amount of people expressing similar opinions now, when morph is gone, bothers me. Y'all are more talkative than me, where was your disagreement yesterday? Same for the newfound willingness to suspect Dragons. Gypyx/Dragons especially, feels really theatery.

Ok why are you townreading sunflower

[Shello and Goodbye]

I don't understand the marci fruit stealing thing. How does her fruit getting stolen also tell her that invention stuff was stolen? And it wasn't clear whether that was the invention she received or the one she was trying to give out?

I have no intention of voting Sunflower and the amount of people expressing similar opinions now, when morph is gone, bothers me. Y'all are more talkative than me, where was your disagreement yesterday? Same for the newfound willingness to suspect Dragons. Gypyx/Dragons especially, feels really theatery.

This sunflower thing is really odd to me -> you don't want to vote sunflower, but you're casting suspicion at the people who agree with you instead of the people voting them?

[Shello and Goodbye]

I don't understand the marci fruit stealing thing. How does her fruit getting stolen also tell her that invention stuff was stolen? And it wasn't clear whether that was the invention she received or the one she was trying to give out?

I have no intention of voting Sunflower and the amount of people expressing similar opinions now, when morph is gone, bothers me. Y'all are more talkative than me, where was your disagreement yesterday? Same for the newfound willingness to suspect Dragons. Gypyx/Dragons especially, feels really theatery.

This sunflower thing is really odd to me -> you don't want to vote sunflower, but you're casting suspicion at the people who agree with you instead of the people voting them?

Why's that odd? If Sunflower is town do you really think all the mafia are just going to line up to vote there, with how strongly morph indicated wanting to flip Sunflower making it practically a foregone conclusion?

if sunflower is town, i think most scum are going to be pushing them, yes, so i'm having a hard time wrapping my mind around this perspective

[Shello and Goodbye]

My stock on luke is going down

Can you talk more about this?

this was a skitterpost but i agreed; i'm unsure if my recollection of the game is correct since i've been paying less attention than i should but like:

If the dethy hood did not have the mod note about a scum boon, I would also entertain the idea that the dethy hood could be a misdirect.

But the mod note feels like it would be a step too far (beyond just having 5 inventors with 4 unknown sanities), so I am not really entertaining the possibility.

VOTE: sunflower

when luke posted this i told skitter i didn't like it, it feels very... perfunctory, i guess. saying nothing that is really new or helpful with a vote tacked on at the end which struck me as odd. i think if luke is a wolf this game his goal has been to like... post reads that feel good and like he's engaging the game, going against the grain of it, but when it comes time to vote he is very okay with just... voting main wagons.

i don't think this is a very compelling case and there are people i want to die well before luke but i don't think he's at the place where he was before in my reads when i was struggling to call people town at all on day 1 and luke was the first person i thought of

- ydra

[Shello and Goodbye]

VC 2.F

experience 11 (Dannflor, CSF, STD, wolfbae, Penguin, Sunflower, Lukewarm, Gypyx, Hermit, Bingle, Firebringer)
Sunflower 4 (Dunnstral, Shello, SirCakez, Spiffeh)
Gypyx 1 (Firebagel)

Not voting - Oblivion, experience, morph, marci

With 20 alive, it takes 11 to win a Darwin Award.

Deadline: (expired on 2024-05-16 20:12:00)

Doing my final double-check of the votes before flipping while also multitasking, please hold...

I'm like

Hermit/bingle
Dann, csf
Dunn, std
Wolfbae, spiffeh
Lukewarm, marci
Penguin, gypyx, cakez, bagel, oblivion
Sunflower, fire

I'm prob like hereabouts

i'm about here too wrt reads so i'm just stealing it. i would move dragons down a little and penguin up i think. the partial solve i lobbed out earlier to skitter was sunflower/firebringer/gypyx or something which does not feel Correct to me but i'm having a hard time picking out who is wrong in this list and who the last person could be assuming 5

- ydra

[Shello and Goodbye]

i think my read on oblivion right now is contingent on upcoming deaths because i feel like, if we're on the right track it looks worse clearly trying to shield who it is shielding. maybe still if like, sunflower flips town regardless but not nearly as convincing. but the posts right now seem genuine to me which is nice

- ydra

[Shello and Goodbye]

i'm about here too wrt reads so i'm just stealing it. i would move dragons down a little and penguin up i think. the partial solve i lobbed out earlier to skitter was

sunflower/firebringer/gypyx

or something which does not feel Correct to me but i'm having a hard time picking out who is wrong in this list and who the last person could be assuming 5

- ydra

That was my solve at some point, but I don't think fb/gypyx is that likely based on 4764 (especially with experience having flipped town!). I would guess Gypyx is town and I'm not sure who I'm overlooking

i don't think this has as much of an impact on me but in that duo yes fb is probably the wolf if they're t/s

- ydra

[Shello and Goodbye]

cop shots can help but also seem like a timesink other than maybe seeing if people visited? i feel like this game is not multitasking

- ydra

[Shello and Goodbye]

i think my read on oblivion right now is contingent on upcoming deaths because i feel like, if we're on the right track it looks worse clearly trying to shield who it is shielding. maybe still if like, sunflower flips town regardless but not nearly as convincing. but the posts right now seem genuine to me which is nice

- ydra

it is a little confused here.

It feels genuine to you, but if it is wrong and sunflower is town you suspect it (fair) but if sunflower is town you still suspect it... despite sounding genuine?

It feels as if the Genuine part is at odds with playing both ends of this.

yes i am weighing that i think your posts are genuine tonally versus my suspicion for your stances (some of which is like, potential suspicion)

- ydra

[Shello and Goodbye]

My stock on luke is going down

Can you talk more about this?

this was a skitterpost but i agreed; i'm unsure if my recollection of the game is correct since i've been paying less attention than i should but like:

If the dethy hood did not have the mod note about a scum boon, I would also entertain the idea that the dethy hood could be a misdirect.

But the mod note feels like it would be a step too far (beyond just having 5 inventors with 4 unknown sanities), so I am not really entertaining the possibility.

VOTE: sunflower

when luke posted this i told skitter i didn't like it, it feels very... perfunctory, i guess. saying nothing that is really new or helpful with a vote tacked on at the end which struck me as odd. i think if luke is a wolf this game his goal has been to like... post reads that feel good and like he's engaging the game, going against the grain of it, but when it comes time to vote he is very okay with just... voting main wagons.

i don't think this is a very compelling case and there are people i want to die well before luke but i don't think he's at the place where he was before in my reads when i was struggling to call people town at all on day 1 and luke was the first person i thought of

- ydra

I had him as a strong scumread on replace in but that kind of got scuppered by him coming at me on entry and not wanting to deal with All That and thinking it was just him being tunnely town

I wouldn't be, like, shocked atp but have not been evaluating what he has been doing much


my feelings on reading Day 1 were that he didn't have any real scumreads he cared about, pushes were safe and boring, his paranoia of morph felt very forced/inauthentic, didn't feel like he was trying to solve the game or have real thoughts other than maybe some basic analysis

I could be totally wrong but those were my thoughts and it feels...pertinent to mention that?

i think the morph push is kind of emblematic of why i think luke could be a wolf. it's a push that doesn't go anywhere on day 1 imo, and i think luke is probably aware of that, but it looks 'productive' and like he's trying to spend his time thinking about the game. which like he could still be thinking about how to frame these things as wolfy and the like but it doesn't produce a lot of meaningful, helpful stuff for the town if he's down these rabbit holes

- ydra

[Shello and Goodbye]

i think my read on oblivion right now is contingent on upcoming deaths because i feel like, if we're on the right track it looks worse clearly trying to shield who it is shielding. maybe still if like, sunflower flips town regardless but not nearly as convincing. but the posts right now seem genuine to me which is nice

- ydra

it is a little confused here.

It feels genuine to you, but if it is wrong and sunflower is town you suspect it (fair) but if sunflower is town you still suspect it... despite sounding genuine?

It feels as if the Genuine part is at odds with playing both ends of this.

yes i am weighing that i think your posts are genuine tonally versus my suspicion for your stances (some of which is like, potential suspicion)

- ydra

If you will indulge it in being blunt, it sounds like you're paranoid of it.

i actually don't think that's really correct or much at all; i feel like you've had circumstances that have kept you from the game which have kept me from being able to cultivate a meatier read on you in either direction and now that you're around a bit more and i am also around a bit more i can think about your slot more

- ydra

[Shello and Goodbye]

It was asked who its top town are, and that's simple.

Firebagel, Gypyx, Sunflower.

It genuinely no longer thinks Sunflower CAN be scum from the method that was played yesterday. Why did things occur as they did? How did it come to pass that the entire game ground to a halt to watch a town elimination from certainty after a scum elimination day 1, then Morph was killed as if to calcify their reads into forced existence?

This pov doesn't make sense to me:
1. Almost no one is citing morph's read as a reason to push sunflower
2. There's *a lot* of resistance to sunflower - it does *not* feel today like everyone is just waiting around to lim them, and a lot of people are trying to divert it. I'm all for reading people on gamestates, buf i wildly disagree with this tale

~ s

[Shello and Goodbye]

Like it *doesn't* feel like mafia are OK with it ? There was a lot more quiecense yesterday abt the experience wagon than there is now abt sunflower

[Shello and Goodbye]

Did you receive a cop shot on night 1? If so, who did you target and what was the result?

I don't see any reason to give out information on that matter right now.

I don't see any reason why you shouldn't

[Shello and Goodbye]

I agree with CSF that there’s an exorbitant amount of effort today at looking away from sunflower.

It was speaking very much about yesterday, and when it came in today Sunflower was the main wagon and players were saying "we're going to abide by Morph's dead reads" sooooooooooooooooo?

Where is this happening

[Shello and Goodbye]

I literally do not care

you can cook up any explanation ex post facto, none of it is meaningful whatsoever

I don't expect anyone to just take my word for it, but like... actually look at the timing of when I was pushing cakez vs the existance of the brain wagon, and how I engaged with the cakez push as brian became a wagon, instead of simply opening my iso and hitting "ctrl+f" and searching for brian and cakez.

Fwiw i'm also kinda meh abt how you interacted with those wagons - i remember p distinctly that you were trying to get me onto cakez

~ s

[Shello and Goodbye]

@sunflower r.e. our read on you:

Kind of coming down to shrug poe, coupled with no reason to townread you but reasons to townread other people in the hood, coupled with general lack of solving + drive to try to get it right (i.e. see how you behaved in kemusan at the very end of pairing) coupled with the weird resistance that's popping up to voting you

[Shello and Goodbye]

Like i agree with spiffeh - yesterday people were kind of meh between sunflower and experience - i don't remember there being a lot of resistance or anti-sunflower-poe sentiment

Today *after* experience flipped town there's a lot of pushback. Admittedly maybe yesterday people weren't pushing back b/c they were content to vote experience and didn't want to push sunflower, but i don't remember so many people expressing that pov

[Shello and Goodbye]

I don't really like oblivion's take here at all

[Shello and Goodbye]

So, it has a few reads with how yesterday went down it wants to discuss. It took time to see how the experience wagon developed and was a little confused.

From the Mason claims, can it ask something? Why did Experience's death feel inevitable upon its re-read? Like, there was obstensibly a counter wagon, but it felt like the whole time it was a waiting room for Experience's death. Do you disagree with this take from it? Because it has a follow up observation about this, if it is felt to be accurate.

Additionally, from Marci, can you explain to it what your view of the deathy is in terms of your reads on the other slots?

Also like : experience's slot was wildly scumread and being pushed by a lot of loud people, and was town. I'm not convince it was 'inevitable' for a lot of thr day, but scum had basically no reason to object to this, and it went through

I don't see how that implies sunflower town at all. At best you can say maybe they're both town and scum didn't care, but i don't think experience flipping town *means* sunflower is town at all

[Shello and Goodbye]

Also like if sunflower is scum, how would yesterday have looked different

[Shello and Goodbye]

I kinda want to townbin peta i think

[Shello and Goodbye]

I think Spiffeh was the one actively fighting to keep Brian from flying under the radar, so that’s a weird stance to me.

i agree that spiffeh looks the best and gained the most towncred as a result of the brian flip

i don't know why it's a weird stance to believe that scum would want those things

He instigated it, no? It's kind of weird for scum to just be like - lol time to bus now

There's 100% scum on the wagon, it's more a question of who and where than if

[Shello and Goodbye]

Was the fact that he had a copshot known?

[Shello and Goodbye]

Oh that'a fair actually, but why would the thief target him n1

[Shello and Goodbye]

Taking a stepback, I kinda think we need to lim sunflower at this point regardless of their aligment - i think that slot is going to be a source of contention until it's flipped

[Shello and Goodbye]

Taking a stepback, I kinda think we need to lim sunflower at this point regardless of their aligment - i think that slot is going to be a source of contention until it's flipped

usually this would be my reaction as well and i'd be like yeah sure go ahead it's best for the gamestate but unfortunately it doesn't apply in this case because if we flip someone else in the hood as scum in the hood then it also basically resolves me

which means that it's to my wincon to actually try to not get limmed which kind of sucks because i like not feeling guilty

Ok but who's the scum in the hood we should be limming

[Shello and Goodbye]

Taking a stepback, I kinda think we need to lim sunflower at this point regardless of their aligment - i think that slot is going to be a source of contention until it's flipped

I am kinda coming around to this as well but slightly worried sunflower town flip isn't really going to be prompting the reevaluation it needs to

I'm kind of just like - there's 18p, and like prob 4-5 scum. I'm kind of fine just limming thru the noisy/not getting resolved soon slots at this point

Idk what the advantage to scum is but i probably just don't care abt limming thru the hood rn, i want to move on and start looking at other players

[Shello and Goodbye]

VOTE: sunflower

I think that's 5

[Shello and Goodbye]

Ten four. I had to clarify with Marci because half the game has weird scumreads on her and while I realize she isn’t being the most helpful she’s not scum.

I disagree. She's not "being unhelpful". She's actively opposing solve attempts and then giving brief spurts of activity that looks vaguely helpful whenever her alignment gets called into question. It's only a little more than rand that she's scum here, but it's also a very low risk low reward play. And I think every scumread of her I've seen is completely reasonable.

i'm coming back around to 'marci can be scum'

~ skitter

[Shello and Goodbye]

I think people don't want to make hard decisions because they are stressful but it feels to me like deferring just makes things harder

I tried stacking the names of remaining non-dethy players in a list and I'd probably kill firebagel owing to a lack of any solid towntells

or like cakez as an i n f o y e e t

i think we should lim sunflower and move on from the dethy (sorry sunflower)

~ skitter

[Shello and Goodbye]

Is there an actual good reason firebagel is town.

no

[Shello and Goodbye]

i think oblivion can be scum, it's positioning around sunflower is sooooo questionable

[Shello and Goodbye]

i'm gonna b ehonest idk if sunflower is scum but i think the slot needs to be resolved and we have enuf space/mislims now to do it
regardless of his flip i want to just move on from the hood afterwards

[Shello and Goodbye]

i'm gonna b ehonest idk if sunflower is scum but i think the slot needs to be resolved and we have enuf space/mislims now to do it
regardless of his flip i want to just move on from the hood afterwards

how many mislims do u think we have

we're at 18 and i'm assuming there's 4-5 scum left, so many

[Shello and Goodbye]

i'm gonna b ehonest idk if sunflower is scum but i think the slot needs to be resolved and we have enuf space/mislims now to do it
regardless of his flip i want to just move on from the hood afterwards

how many mislims do u think we have

we're at 18 and i'm assuming there's 4-5 scum left, so many

thats 3 or 4 if you theres zero extra deaths

5 scum means elo is at 11 ... oh you're right i was thinking elo at 9 for some reason ....
regardless i think we should lim sunflower and move on - the slot needs to be resolved otherwise we're gonna be in a similar pattern every day they're alive

[Shello and Goodbye]

also yeah i think oblivion needs to go

[Shello and Goodbye]

i can lim oblivion i think

[Shello and Goodbye]

:rolls eyes:

I do think you've been kinda scummy tbh

Oops

[Shello and Goodbye]

do you think i should be townreading you?

[Shello and Goodbye]

Like, do you genuinely believe that if I was scum, I could not whip out an infinite number of scum cases? That if you were right, I would not be actively trying to do that to prove you wrong?

I actually think that making up believable scum cases is one of my bigger scum strengths.

tbh i think that regardless of sunflower's alignment, if you were scum, you wouldn't not be needing to do this rn

pedit what's your read on oblivion?
i'm mostly fine with it ending tbh

[Shello and Goodbye]

Then put your vote where your mouth is, and try to vote me out peta.

If you are town you are wrong, your reasons are bad, and you have a bad mental model of me as a player.

Like, you make comments, I respond, and you act like it is so dumb that I ever made the decision to respond, and frankly it makes the game unpleasant. Not even the scum read comments, so much as the extra stuff all around it.

your'e not getting voted out today, no matter how much peta or anyone else finds you scummy