Maplewood Village - game over - [MATURE CONTENT!]

[DeasVail]

In terms of the dayvig shot, I am willing to talk about it.

Honestly if you're town then I'd have you shoot yourself. You're the given lynch for today regardless of your alignment. Normally, self-vigging might be considered gamethrowing, but here it would be genuinely furthering the town wincon, by giving us the rest of the day to sort out the game and help get a new consensus scumread.

But of course. Failing that, the shot I'd suggest would be Vecna, naturally.

<3

[mastina]

Alright. Got a possible weird theory here about that. I believe you. On the vig shot, at least.

I have no doubts about the vig shot being real, I have doubts about the alignment of the player holding it.

[mastina]

This section of my role PM:
---
You really aren't sure how you're going to hold up through this whole situation, it's been an ebb and flow of emotions and states of mind and at any point you might snap. You do care for everyone here, and for the well-being of the community. You do hope to live through it all and that everything is okay for the village in the end, but if one of any of them suddenly sets you off the wrong way, you can't be sure what might happen
---
Makes me think that it could be part of my role? Particularly as the flavour in my ability PM refers to me snapping. I also think there is more to it than that, and I think I know what, but I don't feel it helpful to disclose that right now. It's not very important anyway.

I'll also be honest, this sounds like scum flavor.

[fferyllt]

Deas what did you think about your role PM when you got it?

[DeasVail]

I was a bit unsure about my wincon. I thought that part of my PM implied that I would win with the town (but I thought I also had to survive to win, which has since been clarified as a no).

However, I also thought that the part about not knowing what I would do implied the possibility of an alignment change.

[DeasVail]

All I've been told by the mod in relation to my win condition is that I win in the event of a favourable outcome for the village.

[fferyllt]

That's a lot more straightforward than what I was able to extract from the mod about my wincon.

[DeasVail]

I didn't even need to ask. He just said it when clarifying that I didn't need to survive to win.

[Ginngie]

Shoot yaself

Kinda want to see what happens

[Cabd]

So many fucking kills. What is this,a game designed to end day two?

[Cabd]

Like with that dayshot without any sort of contents and entirely resting in unknown kill mechanics we could have five dead town and no idea why right this second.

[Cephrir]

Not a ton of point in asking for the suicide. If he's scum he'll just shoot someone obvtown and get lynched. It would have been better to keep that opinion in your collective pants.

[Ghostlin]

So the question is now he has the dayshot, can we trust him to shoot who Town wants, and does that change anything?

[Ghostlin]

Because if the answer to both questions is just a flat "no", this is little more than a pleasant thought exercise.

[Cephrir]

I think we should probably hope for that outcome.

[Varsoon]

Hold on. I need to get mod confirmation before I can continue.

[Vecna]

You werent aware that 75% of the game was scumreading Layla?

In fact, I was not! Or any awareness I had of the game scumreading Layla was them having suspicion there but not voting there. If Ginngie was ever in any danger of being lynched, I held zero awareness of it.

EXPLAIN your grudge, and come with actual reasons. Or indeed, I will hold onto the idea it was a scum fabrication, as such things often are.

If you're town (and I still doubt that), the second sentence here is in of itself alone what I'd need to submit as my answer to the first. And if you don't understand why, then that's all the more reason for my statement to stand.

You assume my stance as bullshit because I refuse to read through 75 games?

Yes. Because the burden of proof lies on the accuser, not the accused. Innocent until proven guilty is the best working model for mafia games...because there are more town than scum in every game. (And as a result, more people are town than scum and thus, the default assumption is that a player is town rather than scum; innocent, rather than guilty.) You have made a declaration: that my bodyguard claim is the perfect fakeclaim.

That is an accusation that I would ever think to make the fakeclaim as scum.
I asked for evidence that this is a behavior I would ever take.
You refuse to give it.
Because it basically doesn't exist.

You made a baseless accusation with no basis in reality, and when called out on it, are refusing to provide anything.

What happened to the agitated Mastina that hates Vecna's guts and thinks he's totally below responding to?

The thing which changed is my thoughts on which alignment you're likely to be.

What happened to the perfectly mashing of allignments that make me impossible to read to you?

Absolutely nothing! I don't recall stating anything had changed about that. I have made the following statements:
"I cannot read Vecna".
"If I had to assign Vecna an alignment it would be town".
"I am scumreading Vecna".
Obviously the second and third are in conflict but that is a change in read.

But the first does not conflict with the second, nor does the first conflict with the third.
I cannot read you.
This does not mean I cannot specify how I am reading you.
In fact it is negligence for me to not do so.

I made it unambiguous what my stance on you was: that I couldn't develop a proper read, but originally thought your posting came from town, and later changed my mind into thinking scum. There isn't any conflict between being unable to read you and yet having a read on you. Being unable to read you is self-evident! I read you one way, and am reading you the other way now. Regardless of which is right, that means the other was wrong. And if the stronger stance between the two--my current scumread--is in fact the one which is wrong, then that in of itself...is all the evidence you'd need to prove my statement about being unable to read you is correct.

Mastina doing pre-flip associations to excuse her from voting her "scumreads"

Name a single game where I don't do preflip associatives.
I'll wait. Would be genuinely impressed if you found one. Especially if it were as town. (I might have games where I deliberately avoided doing preflip associatives as scum to mask how my scumreads made no sense as a scumteam because no fucking shit they weren't the scumteam. But I legit can't recall so much as a single game where I did none as town, and even as scum it's probably common enough.)
It's kinda my thing.

Mastina townreading Snarky after he made two posts, which were not in line with town-snarky's stream of thought posting (the real reason I sheeped the desperado wagon fyi)
Only to later have desperado in her scumpool.....but finding excuses not to vote there

...Is proof that I'm not scum because if I were fucking scum then it'd be

the other way around

. An early distancing act with scumbuddies and then segueing into townreading them is my signature scum tactic. It's a method to basically fake the "talking is magic" scumhunting method I use as town. A deliberate version of an invoked 1v1 fight. As town, I will engage with a person who I am suspicious of until I am no longer suspicious of them. This lack of suspicion on them is often accompanied by them skyrocketing in my readslist.

You can see it more or less in what I did with Ginngie. I engaged her, then BAM. Townread. Strongly. A townread which wasn't possible before 'the talk'. A townread which, as a scumread, was a tVt fight. But which led to a strong mutual townread in the end. I never lie about my reads as town. I never do this deliberately. But it happens incidentally, as second-nature, where I will engage town players I have a wrong read on, and through this process realize my read was wrong and correct it to be an infallibly correct one.

Yet this is not a process I cannot duplicate as scum. Mind you, it often does not go according to plan! Plans are made, but often changed as I'm forced to improvise when the town does not act as I had originally anticipated. (Or rather, towns act 90% according to what I predicted, but the 10% they don't is enough to throw the original plan out and require revisions to it.)

Butstill, the general process is there. As scum, I will engage my scumbuddies as scumreads early on, and deliberately transition into giving reasons to townread them from the exchange. The distancing dissuades people from thinking that we're scumbuddies because I avoid making it look like scum theater (even though that's exactly what it is). I am known to not be a busser, and I utilize that perception to my advantage. Not by actually bussing, mind you. But by making people THINK I bussed. Where I cast suspicion, and give no reasoning to be off the wagon. Where I don't justify a lack of presence.

Justifying a lack of presence is stupidly idiotic. It sends off red flags like crazy. I'm not a moron. I know how town players think, I know how town players operate. If they see a player who calls a player scum yet is actively making excuses to be off the wagon, no fucking shit they're going to say that player's scum. So instead, I'm more subtle. More low-key. Instead of outright rejecting the wagon, I softly support it. I don't actually cast my vote, but I imply a willingness to vote. Because as long as my vote's not on the wagon, it's harder to lynch.

I am fully aware of the power of the vote. A single vote is the difference between a wagon succeeding and failing. As scum I don't want a wagon on scum to succeed so I will not be that vote. BUT. I don't want to draw attention to my lack of vote. I want my lack of vote to be inconspicuous, to go unnoticed, to not be widely announced to the world. I accomplish this by continuing to push the most viable town mislynch which fits with my reads.

NOT by screaming "I WILL ABSOLUTELY NOT BE VOTING *scum player*".

So congrats!

You just fucking proved I'm town.

Also, might I add, requoting since I know I've rambled long enough that people are likely to ignore this if I don't:

Mastina doing pre-flip associations to excuse her from voting her "scumreads"

Guess who is doing pre-flip associatives in this post to justify a continued scumread on me which is way past its expiration date? Vecna here was acting like Desperado had already flipped scum before Desperado had actually flipped scum.

(Basically, I did in fact tell you I had a day-actioning role as early as 152. Meaning, well before the Almost50 shot. Try again.)

Alright, that fits

>"mastina's claim is unlikely to be true because she didn't breadcrumb early". (More or less, not exactly but close enough to what you were saying.)
>mastina provides evidence of breadcrumbing early.
>"Alright, that fits".
>...Read remains scum???

I actually kind of like this post. I might not agree with everything in it. Im not 100% convinced yet you couldbt produce it as scum....

but kudos to you for that post. its nice, and i can see a certain consistency in it that fits more with what ive seen from you in the past.

im gonna take a step back from this "thing" and hope to achieve that itll allow you to focus more on other stuff. If youre actually town and me voting somewhere causes you to want to protect it somehow, its not a pro towb situation to have. If youre actually scum, im giving you the perfect opportunity to focus mostly on me and everyone else think its just a stupid stubborn tvt situation, neither pro-town.

go ahead and do your thing. ill be leaving you be and not be attacking everything you do.

[fferyllt]

This turnaround pings a bit.

I have more to say about this, eventually.

[Vecna]

Also, relevant games to this one: xyzxy's TBD mafia2, and Alisae's Beneath the Mask.

Relevant players: chesskid, Vecna, Ellibereth, Varsoon, and Chara.
chesskid was playing much the same in this game and Beneath the Mask I felt. My read in both games was about the same: "probably town but I don't know him well enough to be SURE he's town". As it turns out, this was for good reason; he was scum in both. Technically he was also in TBD Mafia 2, but he was a 3p there so it's hard to judge RE: playwise.

Vecna is playing much the same in this game and in xyzzy's TBD Mafia 2. He was scum in that game, and this contributed to my scumread on him in this game. Notably, Vecna was a read I had as "basically unreadable but if I had to, town" that game and only later did I put the puzzle pieces together that he was scum. This transition largely coincides with my transition in read this game.

Ellibereth is playing much the same in this game as in Alisae's Beneath the Mask. In fact, I intend to use this game as his second game when nominating him for Paragon of Mafia Hunters, since presumably this game will be over in time for me to make a valid nomination and his play here has been worthy of it just like it was in that game.

Varsoon is playing pretty similarly to how he did that game I feel as well. He was a town vig there, I expect him to not be scum here.

And Chara was also in that game and was town there. All the issues players in this game had with Chara, Chara also displayed that game up to and including Chara's lurking problem. Yet it didn't change that Chara was still town all the same.

Admittedly, this is all fairly surface-level stuff. But it is still enough to back my stances up there some more. I stand by my reads.

Hmmm im surprised you describe my play here the same as in TBD2. Ive gone over my iso there a few times and to me, my town play and scum play still has a few differences.

I think to me personally, the biggest challenge I have while playing scum is faking my usual long posts where im explaining my thought process. Its a thing cephir also picked up on.

Id invite people to go ahaed and read my iso in the TBD game, and compare for this point. I know ill make a concious effort again next scum game to improve there, but I doubt im gonna manage to do so succesfully, since i was already aware of thia weakness to anyone paying attention to my playstyle. (I think drealmerz mightve actually caught onto that fact).

[Vecna]

If you don't know who yesterday's target was, you haven't been paying attention.

This is more evidence of Vecna being scum.
If Vecna didn't know who I was protecting, he didn't know who was safe to kill.
Thus, the only way to ensure I wasn't the dead body...

...Would be to kill someone I wouldn't protect. And I was apparently basically the only one NOT really townreading hebichan, so.

(Bad wording, but I think you get the idea? We know scum killed hebichan. We know that doesn't make much sense. Vecna being scum and not knowing who I would protect offers a way for it to MAKE sense. In that if he was scum and didn't know who I was protecting, then all of the people he'd otherwise kill, he couldn't. Thus, the obvtown lived.)

Why would I mind killing you as scum? You should know by now that as scum its always one of my highest priorities. Its not like a kill on mastina is ever gonna be a bad kill.

[Vecna]

at any rate, catching scum this early in what appears to be role madness should seal the deal if we so t mess up too much

All the flipped wolves as far as we know haven't had abilities listed.
Unless you know something we don't and are implying they're anything other than goons.

4 kills, 1 during the day, 3 during the night.

lets face it, theres either a lot of abilities in play, or were facing multiple werewolf factions or some nonsense.

And yes, im strongly suspecting drealmerz is redacting the role/flavour pm's on death to keep it a mystery as to what is happening. This is probably the little bit of mod deception the starting post talks about. Snooping mightve been displayed because it is what killed porkens.

and yes, all of this is speculation, and completely unconfirmed.

3 scum goons? while 3 people die during a night? I just dont see it....

[drealmerz7]

gone for several hours - no one burn down the community home

[Vecna]

>>Mafia Game
>>It's 2017
>>Flavor gives game-relevant clues
>>?????
>>Suffering

This is dreal we're talking about, unfortunately, so I have to agree with the conclusion that in this case, no matter how much we loathe the idea, flavor actually IS relevant here, in that the idea of Patricia being a secondary kill makes sense from hiding behind the nightkill.

exactly, the role is probably hidden in the flavour, and im expecting that that is also why patricia was being so nosy about people their flavour.

[Vecna]

Yeah well that still makes me grumpy.

youre still my town hero mr pig

[Vecna]

anyways it seems my catching up posts came right in the middle of an interesting devellopment.

VOTE: DV