DHSDSM beta: Game Over.

[PoketheAlpaca]

6. Obv DGB. Protown vibe.

7. PescoLight voting for Mod. Wait, Pesco or FL?

9. Jscope votes Pesco for voting the mod. protown vibe.

21. Trostsky feels relaxed.

2. Raging Wisahbone is again trying to break a game.

27. Yep, trotsky feels town.

31. Pesco serious against serious comments. Protown vibe.

36. Incamnito against Ortohoops.

40. DGBHoopla votes Trotsky. Why? Meta? You thought it was rolf?

41. Reasonable question.

42. Yosariwen jumps agains PoketheAlpaca for "extra posting" in page 2. Kay, I realize where are you coming from but why the fixation on me?

Note that I do NOT want this to go to the extent that people are afraid to say stuff; everyone should be posting content, we do not want to get into a "short and sweet" situation where the game dies because people are afraid to post, and a lynch every 12 pages should NOT be that hard in any case. It's just complete spam posts like this one that look anti-town to me here.

Im afraid this is what is happening here. Random stage doesnt give much information and people are used to 5-6 pages of random wagons.

44. Apples and BVananas joins the wagon, agreeing with Yosariwn.

45. Oficially a wagon with Forg Jdging vote.

Not much to analyse here other than I have a town vibe coming from Trostsky, RRBone, Jscope. Others are neutrals and a slight scummy vibe from DGBHoopla.

[whoami8]

Sorry Im not posting much here. Changing acounts is more detestable than I thought.

Ill give you my thoughts tonight.

Tajo..

As has been pointed out don't do this we need to conserve posts in this game to limit scum kills. KThx. Also note the lurker pressure leads to fluff post...

I'm really not enjoying this game much because I prefer to post in short blurbs repeatedly, so I must say Adel this mechanism sucks.

Pointing out possible Vigs helps the scum. Do you actually think RW is an SK?

I'm more just wondering where RWishbone cooked up those numbers. And we all know a vig is in the game, the knowledge he displayed would actually suggest he knows there isn't a vig in the game.

[Incamnito]

Bah.

We need to conserve posts, sure.. but we also need to find and kill scum.

Thus, as usual....let me give you all my thoughts. Just in case we are KILLED or something!

1.

Zaphod Beeblebrox

- Has said nothing. VERY un-dgb. Prob-scum.
2.

Apples and Banana

- I think the votes are because you said nothing OTHER than what you did. If you are town, why do you care about "looking scummy?" Hell, if you are town, why do you care about "avoiding the issue" OR "saying its a different head"? YOU ARE SCUM.
3.

Zmd

- Seriously you two. I like you, but lets play mafia here. You beat me by lurking once.. IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN AGAIN!
4.

Trotsky

- Wow. Someone with a couple posts. Thats all it takes to get on my good side! Prob Town!
5.

Death the Hogfather

- Whatever this "character" is you are using.. it isn't helping us AT ALL. I am inclined to lynch you. Now. Die lurker Die.
6.

Incamnito - OBV TOWN

7.

Yosariwen

- I agree with Yoswarian.
8.

Ortohoops

- a whole lot of nothing here. leaning scum.
9.

sex w/ shafteds wife club

- idk why, but leaning town! Maybe its the Elvis outfit?
10.

PoketheAlpaca

- Yay, you are doing stuff! Probtown (see #4 above!)
11.

Pesco-Light

- meta is no excuse.. but I like the other things you have said. You are making a little bit of sense in this game. townish.
12.

Raging Wishbone

- Your substance:fluff ratio is good.. I'd just like to see more of it. Null read.
13. J-Scope - die lurker die.
14.

Frog Dodging

- Your one post is OK.. but the fact that there is just one is not. Die lurking scum.

All that said..
Id like to

UNVOTE

I havn't checked with my other half.. so we might switch back if the case was compelling...
and

VOTE Death the Hogfather

I propose we simply lynch them. Now. And then see what people have to say about that.
Unless they want to try helping the town, that is.

Also...

So, anyway, on that note, I'll add an

FoS: Every post signer

I do NOT intend on signing.. but my other half does! Do we get a FOS, or no?

What, do you expect us to say you are town but your other half isn't?

That's when my head explodes.

[Saunt Adelaus]

Votecount as of post 52:

Apples and Banana:

3

:sex w/ shafteds wife club, Pesco Light, Trotsky
PoketheAlpaca: [b32[/b]: Yosariwen, Apples and Banana, Frog Dodging,
Trotsky:

2

:PoketheAlpaca, Zaphod Beeblebrox,
Yosariwen:

1

:Death the Hogfather,
Frog Dodging:

1

:Zmd,
Pesco Light:

1

:J-Scope,
Death the Hogfather:

1

:Incamnito

not voting:

2

:Ortohoops, Raging Wishbone,

while 14 players are alive, 8 votes will lynch

[KaleiÐoscøpe]

Unvote
Vote: PoketheAlpaca

Club this seal please ===[]

[Trotsky]

pokethealpaca and incamnito's post/player analyses after three whole pages chock full of nothing much look like an effort to look like they're contributing, instead of actually doing so. considering incamnito has done this as town, though

unvote, vote: pokethealpaca

[whoami8]

Why has apples and bananas wagon died? Because they decided to try to look like they're playing the game? All they did was agree with Yosariwen's point and hide behind them. Agreeing is fine. Wagoning is fine. No original thinking = scum.

Wait...are we being voted for the comment about wanting to tell the heads apart? If xofelf makes a post, and before we talk about it, I come online and there's a bunch of questions surrounding her post, I'm going to let her answer them. But if I have something else to comment on, I will. Hence wanting the poster to be differentiable, in my opinion.

Having said that, I agree with Yosariwen's point about PokertheAlpaca.

Vote: Poker

[Incamnito]

pokethealpaca and incamnito's post/player analyses after three whole pages chock full of nothing much look like an effort to look like they're contributing, instead of actually doing so. considering incamnito has done this as town, though

unvote, vote: pokethealpaca

How long exactly should one wait until they attempt some analysis? This is a real question.
If everyone had your philosphy then it would practically be OK to just

keep

saying nothing. So how long should we wait?

Why has apples and bananas wagon died? Because they decided to try to look like they're playing the game? All they did was agree with Yosariwen's point and hide behind them. Agreeing is fine. Wagoning is fine. No original thinking = scum.

You are right.
They are scum.

UNVOTE
VOTE : APPLES AND BANNANAS

[Ortohoops]

6. Obv DGB. Protown vibe.

7. PescoLight voting for Mod. Wait, Pesco or FL?

9. Jscope votes Pesco for voting the mod. protown vibe.

21. Trostsky feels relaxed.

2. Raging Wisahbone is again trying to break a game.

27. Yep, trotsky feels town.

31. Pesco serious against serious comments. Protown vibe.

36. Incamnito against Ortohoops.

40.

DGBHoopla

votes Trotsky. Why? Meta? You thought it was rolf?

41. Reasonable question.

42. Yosariwen jumps agains PoketheAlpaca for "extra posting" in page 2. Kay, I realize where are you coming from but why the fixation on me?

Note that I do NOT want this to go to the extent that people are afraid to say stuff; everyone should be posting content, we do not want to get into a "short and sweet" situation where the game dies because people are afraid to post, and a lynch every 12 pages should NOT be that hard in any case. It's just complete spam posts like this one that look anti-town to me here.

Im afraid this is what is happening here. Random stage doesnt give much information and people are used to 5-6 pages of random wagons.

44. Apples and BVananas joins the wagon, agreeing with Yosariwn.

45. Oficially a wagon with Forg Jdging vote.

Not much to analyse here other than I have a town vibe coming from Trostsky, RRBone, Jscope. Others are neutrals and a slight scummy vibe from

DGBHoopla

.

Wait, why am I in DGB's hydra now? Are you sure you're paying attention to the game? I don't know how you can deal out suspicion when you don't even know who's making the posts!

--

To prevent this post existing for a mere correction, I want to use this space to talk about a couple of things. The posting rate in this game is flat - remember we still do have 13 pages to get through before a recharge. At the rate we're going at now, that will take ~12 days. This is plenty of time to make an accurate lynch decision.

I don't want to get to a stage where the sole basis of scumminess is from posting activity. Scaring people into thinking they'll get jumped upon for small posts will kill the game, and make it easier for scum. Use common sense to limit one-liners, yes, but I also think it's a cheap excuse for scum to attack players. We have more posts than we think, we really do.

--

At the moment, the PokeTheAlpaca wagon looks

very

opportunistic. Of the people on the wagon, A&B's vote stands out the most as a cheap way to jump on, especially when they were yet to post content. Kscope's meta suggests all is fine for him jumping on too, but I still don't like the baseless entry.

I'm going to

Vote: Apples and Bananas

on a gut read.

[Trotsky]

i disagree with my other head's vote change here. i stand by my statement when we first voted a&b - they should be lynched in as few posts as possible.

unvote, vote: apples and bananas

[Frog Dodging]

I'm unsure as to whether I like the rapidly materializing wagon on A&B or not - part of me wants to leap on there full-force, part of me wants to run away screaming bloody murder. It's rather blah-inducing.

I really, really, really,

really

detest PokeTheAlpaca's useless posting thus far. It reeks. Really really really really really really really reeks. The fact that the wagon is losing steam saddens me greatly.

Incamn, re: lurking; stuff it, I'm busy. No, we are not going to waste posts when we have nothing to say in order to fulfill some arbitrary criterion you set forth. It is contrary to the goal of this game, which is to speak softly and carry a big stick.

Scope's wagon-hop is a null-tell and perfectly normal for him. Ortohoops has a huge tendency to say a whole lotta nothing in his posts, which is something to look out for.

[Incamnito]

Incamn, re: lurking; stuff it, I'm busy. No, we are not going to waste posts when we have nothing to say in order to fulfill some arbitrary criterion you set forth. It is contrary to the goal of this game, which is to speak softly and carry a big stick.

So which exactly was your excuse for having only posted once?

a) You were busy and couldn't get around to it
b) You were intentionally not posting because you "don't have anything to say"...
or
c) You were intentionally not posting in order to conserve posts, and delay the next action phase, like a good little townie?

Because it seems to me like you crowbar-ed three different lame excuses into one post.. .
And the criteria isn't arbitrary... you just had only posted once all game. That is not enough for me to decide iif you are town.. so I default to you being scum.

[Zmd]

3.

Zmd

- Seriously you two. I like you, but lets play mafia here. You beat me by lurking once.. IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN AGAIN!

That was Zaz. I never lurk strategically. And even in 672, Zaz's lurking wasn't strategic.

I don't see the case on A&B.

Fuuny how Hoopla/Ort calls Poke's wagon opportunistic and then jumps on the new popular wagon.

Unvote, Vote Ortohoops

[J-Scope]

@K-Scope: make sure we’re posting in this account. I fear the wrath of the mods.
I support our vote on PoketheAlpaca; pressure is good, especially on the Alpaca half.

His post 28 and 48 are, to me, unnecessary, and just look like a way to avoid looking like the least posting lurker, but it’s still lurking if there is no content. Post 50 looks like a lot of fence-sitting and recap without analysis; just vibes that don't include director commentary.

9. Jscope votes Pesco for voting the mod. protown vibe.
21. Trostsky feels relaxed.
2. Raging Wisahbone is again trying to break a game.
27. Yep, trotsky feels town.

Are these posts the only reasons you labeled Trostsky, RRBone, and Jscope as town at the end of your post? What made you place those three names and not Pesco who you also gave a pro-town vibe in the beginning but not the end?

Also yeah, explain why you paired DGB and hoopla like a hydra?
----------------

Re: Incamnito’s Post 52 – Was that whole list basing scum primarily on the number of posts they had? You vote for Hogfather because he only had 1 post and you claimed Trotsky looked town because he had a lot of posts. What about the content or lack thereof, how much did that factor into these opinions:

8. Ortohoops - a whole lot of nothing here. leaning scum.
10. PoketheAlpaca - Yay, you are doing stuff! Probtown (see #4 above!)

---------------

Why has apples and bananas wagon died? Because they decided to try to look like they're playing the game? All they did was agree with Yosariwen's point and hide behind them. Agreeing is fine. Wagoning is fine. No original thinking = scum.

The stall looks normal to me and I don’t think it was scum driven. It looks like the motive for so many votes there was to get A&B to talk, not to expose guiltiness.

I think the Alpaca wagon is similar but there’s more to question, and a few sentences that don’t add up, so I likes it more.
---------------

I'm going to Vote: Apples and Bananas on a gut read.

Any reason why you don’t think the A&B wagon was opportunitic where the Alpaca wagon was? How strong a gut read can you get from a player with 2 posts?

[Apples and Banana]

Why has apples and bananas wagon died? Because they decided to try to look like they're playing the game? All they did was agree with Yosariwen's point and hide behind them. Agreeing is fine. Wagoning is fine. No original thinking = scum.

You expect all 12 hydras in the game to all have completely original thoughts on different players by page

TWO

? Its a game where conserving posts is essential, and you're trying to say I'm Scum for not having said much by page TWO?

[Incamnito]

Re: Incamnito’s Post 52 – Was that whole list basing scum primarily on the number of posts they had? You vote for Hogfather because he only had 1 post and you claimed Trotsky looked town because he had a lot of posts. What about the content or lack thereof, how much did that factor into these opinions:

8. Ortohoops - a whole lot of nothing here. leaning scum.
10. PoketheAlpaca - Yay, you are doing stuff! Probtown (see #4 above!)

---------------

No, the whole listing was

not

based on the number of posts they had... though I admit that it has something to do with my ability to read people. Generally, you are all scum to me until you start to act town.

That said, My comments on Apples and Bannas have nothing to do with the number of posts. (which I noticed you did not comment on, A&B)
Raging wishbone only has 2 posts, but they are null to me... and PescoLight only has a few.

Now, I did vote Hogfather... but I don't recall saying it was for only 1 post. I don't like his tone, and I don't like this so-called "character" he is using. In this thread OR in the sign-up thread.

Re: orthoops... my comment referred to the lack of content in his existing posts. "Playful Banter", "Dice tags", etc.
Re: PokeAlpaca... Just like I said. I am a soft touch

So, why don't YOU offer some opinions on those players now? I would like to see them!

[whoami8]

Why has apples and bananas wagon died? Because they decided to try to look like they're playing the game? All they did was agree with Yosariwen's point and hide behind them. Agreeing is fine. Wagoning is fine. No original thinking = scum.

You expect all 12 hydras in the game to all have completely original thoughts on different players by page

TWO

? Its a game where conserving posts is essential, and you're trying to say I'm Scum for not having said much by page TWO?

I never said every player has to have original thoughts on every other player. But you have had none on anyone so far. INCLUDING THAT LAST POST!

If you object to the page number being 2 or 3 or whatever, let me know what page you're going to start having original thoughts.

If you really care about conserving posts, please use yours to scum hunt.

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

If Incamnito was any more town, my eyes would implode.

I know what you're saying about A&B, but for these hydras I do not have yet enough information to get a read, and I'm confident I will be able to get a read eventually.

With the Swine Flu going around... this is definitely a lurker I want to rattle.

vote: Death the Hogfather

*DGB*

[Ortohoops]

I'm going to Vote: Apples and Bananas on a gut read.

Any reason why you don’t think the A&B wagon was opportunitic where the Alpaca wagon was? How strong a gut read can you get from a player with 2 posts?

This wagon looks far more promising. I'll explain my logic a little better though; I think 13 pages to get a lynch is far more space than we actually think for a game this size. That's 325 posts.

Of the last 10 completed mini's, the first lynch was taken

before

post 325 in 6 of those games. And I think it's generally well-known that D1's are most commonly the longest. These set-up's have just two less players than what we have now. Not to mention players were playing normally in those games, not trying to conserve posts.

My main point is I don't think scum would blatantly draw attention to themself in such an obvious way - or rather, I don't think those spam posts were intentionally made to waste posts, when a recharge target is so far off. There is little to no scum motivation behind it.

In fact I'd suggest scum would more likely be the players most wary of this infraction. It's a simple way for them to sit back early and jump on someone for fluff posting, knowing that the town is paranoid of this. And, I think A&B is most guilty of this crime.

[Saunt Adelaus]

Votecount as of post 68:

Apples and Banana:

5

:sex w/ shafteds wife club, Pesco Light, Incamnito, Ortohoops, Trotsky
PoketheAlpaca:

3

: Yosariwen, Apples and Banana, Frog Dodging,
Trotsky:

1

:PoketheAlpaca,
Yosariwen:

1

:Death the Hogfather,
Ortohoops:

1

:Zmd,
Pesco Light:

1

:J-Scope,
Death the Hogfather:

1

:Zaphod Beeblebrox,

not voting:

1

:Raging Wishbone,

while 14 players are alive, 8 votes will lynch

[Pesco Light]

I agree with SWSWC post 66. A&B doing no scumhunting but posting only excuses even after all the pressure on them makes for a fine lynch today.

@ Ortohoops 68: Thanks for the WIFOM.

Pesco

[Raging Wishbone]

Three scumkills would only end the game in a typical twelve player game if we also not only lynched three times in that period but all of those lynches were also mislynches. If you consider that furthermore we're fourteen players in this game, not twelve, it makes your stance even more bizarre.

I do think that it is optimal to lynch at least once for every scumkill, if possible.

I wasn't talking of ending the game, I was trying to take into account the max num. of pro-scum kills we could handle and keep the game balanced. I didn't take the vig/sk into account since he could be pro town, and I didn't feel like messing with my math. I fully realize this is oversimplifying things, but I was only trying to make a point.



People seem fixtated on the idea that we should only lynch once per action block. This is how things work in regular games, but I don't see why this should be how things will work here. The more and the earlier we lynch, the less kills scum have, the better. I therefore suggest we try writing fewer posts, with more content. I'm not saying people should be terrified of posting, but saying more in fewer posts gains us valuable space. I think people should try treating this game as a form of Verbose Mafia, and only post when they either have a substantial point (which doesn't require the post to be long) to make or several small ones. For example, despite being an entirely valid point, this:

Gut read isn't as conclusive as a post of making a scummy excuse.

could've waited until he had more to say. And of course, "I'll reread later" posts and the such are entirely redundant. This approach may slow down the game a bit, but I think the gain is worth it and anyways our energy is more needed elsewhere.

That, and I think we should be much more lenient towards lynching than we usually are. Again, lynching doesn't cost us scumkills here. Wasting too many posts on not lynching does. So go violence!

DGB feels highly unnatural here, on top of being sorta useless thus far.

Vote Zaphod Beeblebrox

. The Apples and Bananas wagon is good too.

[Raging Wishbone]

And by pesco-town (huh?), I mean pesco-light.

[Frog Dodging]

Incamn, re: lurking; stuff it, I'm busy. No, we are not going to waste posts when we have nothing to say in order to fulfill some arbitrary criterion you set forth. It is contrary to the goal of this game, which is to speak softly and carry a big stick.

So which exactly was your excuse for having only posted once?

a) You were busy and couldn't get around to it
b) You were intentionally not posting because you "don't have anything to say"...
or
c) You were intentionally not posting in order to conserve posts, and delay the next action phase, like a good little townie?

Because it seems to me like you crowbar-ed three different lame excuses into one post.. .
And the criteria isn't arbitrary... you just had only posted once all game. That is not enough for me to decide iif you are town.. so I default to you being scum.

Sorry, how are those three in any way mutually exclusive? It was a combination of the above. Secondly, it's page three. How is one post in two-and-a-quarter pages in a game where talking less and saying more is rewarded?

3.

Zmd

- Seriously you two. I like you, but lets play mafia here. You beat me by lurking once.. IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN AGAIN!

That was Zaz. I never lurk strategically. And even in 672, Zaz's lurking wasn't strategic.

I don't see the case on A&B.

Fuuny how Hoopla/Ort calls Poke's wagon opportunistic and then jumps on the new popular wagon.

Unvote, Vote Ortohoops

I hate hate hate it when people say "oh I never do X" because most of the time they

do

. It bugs the hell out of me. Also, this post is obnoxiously short on content and high on an accusation that holds about as much water as a sieve missing its bottom.

Why has apples and bananas wagon died? Because they decided to try to look like they're playing the game? All they did was agree with Yosariwen's point and hide behind them. Agreeing is fine. Wagoning is fine. No original thinking = scum.

You expect all 12 hydras in the game to all have completely original thoughts on different players by page

TWO

? Its a game where conserving posts is essential, and you're trying to say I'm Scum for not having said much by page TWO?

Stop trying to slide by saying nothing whatsoever except a half-assed defense. You are wasting posts. You are making posts with no important content, and then saying you're trying to conserve posts. It reeks of hypocrisy. Also, 14, not 12. Pay attention.

If Incamnito was any more town, my eyes would implode.

I know what you're saying about A&B, but for these hydras I do not have yet enough information to get a read, and I'm confident I will be able to get a read eventually.

With the Swine Flu going around... this is definitely a lurker I want to rattle.

vote: Death the Hogfather

*DGB*

Standard lurking tells are not valid here. Scum gains nothing from saying nothing because it makes their kill come along slower. Scum does gain something from making numerous short posts devoid of content as they push us ever closer to a dreaded action phase, a la A&B and PoketheAlpaca.

I agree with SWSWC post 66. A&B doing no scumhunting but posting only excuses even after all the pressure on them makes for a fine lynch today.

@ Ortohoops 68: Thanks for the WIFOM.

Pesco

MASSIVE HYPOCRISY ALERT MASSIVE HYPOCRISY ALERT

People seem fixtated on the idea that we should only lynch once per action block. This is how things work in regular games, but I don't see why this should be how things will work here. The more and the earlier we lynch, the less kills scum have, the better. I therefore suggest we try writing fewer posts, with more content. I'm not saying people should be terrified of posting, but saying more in fewer posts gains us valuable space. I think people should try treating this game as a form of Verbose Mafia, and only post when they either have a substantial point (which doesn't require the post to be long) to make or several small ones.

I love this post. Too bad it's already been said multiple times, but we applaud the effort.

We would also like to recommend that hydras talk with each other and attempt to make one post reflecting the viewpoints of both parties as opposed to the other way around.

[Yosariwen]

Sorry Im not posting much here. Changing acounts is more detestable than I thought.

Ill give you my thoughts tonight.

Tajo..

This is exactally the kind of wasted post I was voting you for, tajo.

Why not just wait and make a full post when you "post your thoughts tonight"? I see that you did make a full, more detailed post later, but why not just make that one? This is not a speed game; one post a day is fine, no need to let us know you're going to post later or whatever.

So, anyway, on that note, I'll add an FoS: Every post signer

Uh...was this a joke? Do you actually think there's some way that signing a post is scummy?

5. Death the Hogfather - Whatever this "character" is you are using.. it isn't helping us AT ALL. I am inclined to lynch you. Now. Die lurker Die.
...
VOTE Death the Hogfather
I propose we simply lynch them. Now. And then see what people have to say about that.
Unless they want to try helping the town, that is.

Hmm. Let me check his posts:

Ok, his *post* would be more accurate. Yeah, they're lurking, which is just unacceptable, especally in a hydra game.

Fos

We also need to hear more from apples and banana as well, I agree with that; I can understand why people think they may be trying to fly under the radar here.
-Yos