Surreptitious: The Game of Spies

[Ramcius]

Help yourself.

i try, but everyone so ignorant

[Woodboys2339]

Could someone explain the reasoning of the Ram lynch over Nero. His ISO doesnt look bad.

Exactly.

So then what warrants the L1?

He's Scum bro.

I actually just asked a question about why and you didn't answer... so why dafuq is ram scum?

[Lil Uzi Vert]

My side girl got a 5s with the screen cracked, still hit me back right away

[Lil Uzi Vert]

We have 10 days left, can we think about this a little more?

There are 3 people on Ram Ram's wagon I don't have a solid read on. There are 2 people on his wagon I'm scum reading.

[-Grey-]

There are 2 people on his wagon I'm scum reading.

Which two?

[-Grey-]

btw Grey how happy will you be when you find out I'm town?

Before or after one of us flips?

before as in right now.

VOTE: Alisae

What were you angling at here?

[Transcend]

btw Grey how happy will you be when you find out I'm town?

Before or after one of us flips?

before as in right now.

VOTE: Alisae

What were you angling at here?

[Lil Uzi Vert]

There are 2 people on his wagon I'm scum reading.

Which two?

A50 and Sly.

[-Grey-]

Don't even care why you're scumreading A50. You're wrong.

Why are you scumreading Sly?

[Nero Cain]

I actually just asked a question about why and you didn't answer... so why dafuq is ram scum?

the reason(s) for Ram scum are like 20x better then the reasons for me.

[momo]

I actually just asked a question about why and you didn't answer... so why dafuq is ram scum?

the reason(s) for Ram scum are like 20x better then the reasons for me.

You can't just say that Nero. There is this thing you might have heard of, it called

EXPLAINING!!!!!!

[Nero Cain]

ok sure. With no reason to believe there was any reason to vote one group over the other group I voted my own group. My vote did not count b/c I had apparently missed that we have to use vote tags. Ram got kinda upset or something and asked me if I was a traitor. I told him no and according to his logic that means I'm mafia. He then stated that its scummy that didn't care but then he (or anyone) can't explain why I

SHOULD

have cared when all the groups have the same 20% chance for a scum flip. So from my POV it looks like he was nervous that his group was getting wagoned.

[Nero Cain]

and then

your motivation for voting own group was lulz, i'm saying voting own group not make people town, it's NAI

if its NAI how can he think I'm scuumy for it. Like he's just all over thr place and is trying to find something that sticks.

[Ramcius]

ok sure. With no reason to believe there was any reason to vote one group over the other group I voted my own group. My vote did not count b/c I had apparently missed that we have to use vote tags. Ram got kinda upset or something and asked me if I was a traitor. I told him no and according to his logic that means I'm mafia. He then stated that its scummy that didn't care but then he (or anyone) can't explain why I

SHOULD

have cared when all the groups have the same 20% chance for a scum flip. So from my POV it looks like he was nervous that his group was getting wagoned.

first, i explained several times, but ignorance in you is stronger than me - i called you out for putting group at L-3, second, it was explained by other people why we shouldn't have pick group so soon, and no, your logic is simple ignore over how fm works in general, calling you traitor was simple reaction test, but you too ignorant to realize things like reaction tests exists in fm it seems, all you just stated is simple OMGUS/misrep/shadetrowing, so try again, maybe read topic from start to have grasp on what was said

[Nero Cain]

So if I had said "yes", I would have passed your reaction test?

[Nero Cain]

I had been previously voting my group, you seem to be ignoring that. Yes you can technically say that I wasn't b/c it didn't count but its not like I just randomly but my group at L-3.

[Nero Cain]

it was explained by other people why we shouldn't have pick group so soon

no not really at least I don't think so. Wood said that I shouldn't have voted my group since I should have taken more time to decide but I mean that's not a reason?

[Ramcius]

I had been previously voting my group, you seem to be ignoring that. Yes you can technically say that I wasn't b/c it didn't count but its not like I just randomly but my group at L-3.

i explain you different, i don't give a shit which group you voted, or tried to vote, or whatever, i clearly said that you shouldn't put group at L-3 so early, and you did so right after VC showing our group was L-4, next, some people explicity pointed out that using our time to define which group have most scummy people to choose for lynch was way to go, we were given a week for DPI for a reason, so i repeat again, go and read again what was said till now, cause you clearly haven't

[Almost50]

@Ram: If you're town, my advise is to take a step back, take a deep breath, and try to get your thoughts well organized before you post. Right now you're making little sense if any.

OK, why do you scum read me again? (And I do have a point for asking this now).

[Ramcius]

@Ram: If you're town, my advise is to take a step back, take a deep breath, and try to get your thoughts well organized before you post. Right now you're making little sense if any.

OK, why do you scum read me again? (And I do have a point for asking this now).

Simple, cause you tried convince me with bad logic, when i tried question your logic, you voted me and pretty much ended our discussion after by changing subject, fact that you missed me calling you scum says a lot about you answering to me without fully reading what i wrote

[Randomnamechange]

prodge because I'm waiting on some certain things to happen before I evaluate.

[-Grey-]

@Ram: If you're town, my advise is to take a step back, take a deep breath, and try to get your thoughts well organized before you post. Right now you're making little sense if any.

OK, why do you scum read me again? (And I do have a point for asking this now).

Simple, cause you tried convince me with bad logic, when i tried question your logic, you voted me and pretty much ended our discussion after by changing subject, fact that you missed me calling you scum says a lot about you answering to me without fully reading what i wrote

Fairly certain you scumread us (LoX) in Timeshift for pretty much the same thing.

Oh look, we flipped town in that game.

Try to resist the urge to scumread someone simply because there is a breakdown in communications.

[Almost50]

OK.. so the reason I was asking is null/void.

But let's go back to address your logic for one last time:

My stance was Nero + momo could NOT be BOTH scum. Yours was that you scum read them both. Never mind that I knew momo was a PR. Let's disregard that for now.

Now, for there to be 2 scums in one group NECESSITATES there to be the Traitor in that group. The 3 main Scums are distributed evenly on the 3 groups. Right?

Now my logic was that the Traitor would NOT vote their own group. Why? because while they might (or might not) be informed of whom the main group members are, THEY )the main group) are not informed whom the Traitor is. This means that the Traitor (if they know the rest of the team) can try to avoid and even defend them, but they cannot do the same for him (I'll just use "him" from now on referring to the Traitor to make it easy to tell which "they" I'm talking about, if you know what I mean).

Are we good so far? Traitor not likely to vote own group? 2 Scums in same group = Traitor must be one of them?

Now both momo and Nero DID vote their own group, so NEITHER of them is the Traitor in my book. Can one be Scum and the other Town? Sure, but they canNOT be BOTH scum. THAT was the flaw in your logic, not mine.

Now let's bring in the fact I knew momo was a PR (didn't know which, but his crumb was crystal clear to me). I had to defend BOTH your scum reads. Why? Because if I only defended momo it would raise even more questions and could have resulted in more people voting there. I didn't know back then if momo was going to go all the way and explicitly claim, so I was trying to protect him w/o outing him.

Now that we are (or should be) in agreement that

momo is confirmed

we can go back and take a look at the other 4 in the group: You, Nero, Alisae and SS.

The back and forth between you and myself didn't bode well with me. You trying to enforce your reads on me didn't feel good or even genuine to me. That's why I still suspect you. Your arguments against Nero still feel the same. That's why my vote is still on you.

However, momo's "trap" (which didn't impress many) actually did impress me. It's a way to try and look for leads. It might not be conclusive, but it IS a good way IMHO. Now SS & Nero are both pinging me for wanting the check to be outside of group C, but then .. so do you!!!!

The thing is, I can see your point about the check target being NK'd, but what if they're not? We would have a guilty OR we would have an explicit clear, and thus an implicit guilty on the other. it's a 1/3 chance the NK target will be the same as the one momo checks, and 2/3 they're not, so we have DOUBLE AS MUCH the chance of lynching scum tomorrow than not.

I'd say let momo decide on his own. He can choose to check in group C or outside it as he believes fit. Either way he's giving us a result on someone. The chances on him getting one outside of the group are definitely better (because the Rolestopper has a 1/10 chance of targeting the same person of groups A/B vs a 33.3% of doing the same in group C), but discussing this in more details might alert scum to alternative options I'm hoping they're not seeing. so let's just let momo decide on his own and NOT announce it.

Now try to reread everything I said in this post, and -if needs be- go back and read what I said earlier, and see if anything makes sense to you now. Also try to reorganize your thoughts and phrase them better so they won't look like you're shooting blindly in all directions. Just a friendly advise.

UNVOTE:

I believe I've given you as much slack as I can on this. Use it well or I might have no choice but to put my vote back on you.

[Almost50]

@Nero:

I'm getting mixed vibes from you. On the surface, you look okay'ish and all, but you're not remotely as aggressive as the usual you would be. What's keeping me from pushing you though is that you WERE aggressive in Timeshift and I TR'd for it, so I'm confused as to whether this is a change of your playstyle.

[Almost50]

@Transcend: You accused me of trying to derail the wagon on Ram not long ago. It now surprises me that not only did you unvote Ram, but also placed your vote on Alisae; the very same person you thought I was warming up to switch my vote to!!!