Night and Day Mafia (Game Over)

[Aristophanes]

I'd like to point out that I spampost as fuck but I've very rarely been called out as one because I'm usually flooding the game with content.

I am toe opposite in both respects

[Alisae]

we need to go back to wall meta!

As much as I wallpost myself.
Let's not.

--

My take on it:

People who led towns in the older site meta (2013-2015) had a tendency to post a lot and compel the rest of the town that way. Eventually people were like "oh they're charismatic by posting a lot, so let me post a lot." But instead of looking at the nuances in their performances, they just looked at their post count and emulated that. So now we have a sitemeta of literally everyone spamposting their heads off, which leads to a pretty chaotic gamestate, which is beneficial for scum.

People also often look at post count to derive actual effort put into the game, so if someone's trying to lead they're like "well I've got a similarly high post count as well, I don't see why I've got to listen to this kid." Hence, towns don't have an actual singular leader.

I see that often with towns these days instead of one person going: "hold my beer I got this," instead I see a lot of townblocs controlling the game, but often those are just "alright who's putting effort into the game let's go" so scum can infiltrate the blocs further disrupting control.

To sum it up, people are posting a lot which allows for certain pro-scum tendencies from town to appear.

I don't care about how many posts they have, however if you aren't posting your voice gets hidden among the crowd.

Strong townplayers should go "Hold my beer, I got this"
And strong townblocs controlling the game happen and they dominate because they formed so organicly that scum can't infilitrate them. It's not as simpleminded as you're putting it man.

[Nosferatu]

exactly. People now are trying to do what people did before, but they're only looking at part of the picture.

They're trying to emulate bob dylan by playing with the harmonica, but they've forgotten the guitar.

Strong townplayers should go "Hold my beer, I got this"
And strong townblocs controlling the game happen and they dominate because they formed so organicly that scum can't infilitrate them.

I didn't say they shouldn't.
Yeah strong townblocs form like that, but people aren't forming strong townblocs. Hence why towns are losing.

[Alisae]

Kingdom Hearst had a strong townbloc and that was a town win.
For Us had a strong townbloc and that was a town sweep. Yet again, that game comprised of players from an older generation for the most part.

[Alisae]

Oh yeah
Sexy Brutale had a strong townbloc that wasn't formed till super late game and once that townbloc was formed we took our barings and took back control of the game because scum!Hiraki messed up, outed himself and Wis, and scum!Desperado was just being lame with his posting.

[Nosferatu]

I do acknowledge that I'm leaving out several variables. I'm centering my argument around just one.

Kingdom Hearst had a strong townbloc and that was a town win.
For Us had a strong townbloc and that was a town sweep. Yet again, that game comprised of players from an older generation for the most part.

Oh yeah
Sexy Brutale had a strong townbloc that wasn't formed till super late game and once that townbloc was formed we took our barings and took back control of the game because scum!Hiraki messed up, outed himself and Wis, and scum!Desperado was just being lame with his posting.

I'm saying that strong townblocs very well should -> town win. I'm saying that when town lose, its often because they didn't have a strong townbloc.

[MathBlade]

I do acknowledge that I'm leaving out several variables. I'm centering my argument around just one.

Kingdom Hearst had a strong townbloc and that was a town win.
For Us had a strong townbloc and that was a town sweep. Yet again, that game comprised of players from an older generation for the most part.

Oh yeah
Sexy Brutale had a strong townbloc that wasn't formed till super late game and once that townbloc was formed we took our barings and took back control of the game because scum!Hiraki messed up, outed himself and Wis, and scum!Desperado was just being lame with his posting.

I'm saying that strong townblocs very well should -> town win. I'm saying that when town lose, its often because they didn't have a strong townbloc.

lol I find this fundamentally flawed.

As scum (when I am not sucking craptastically) I can infiltrate blocks rather quickly. Thing Mafia had a "townblock" which I nailed the scum team and was lynched for "attacking the town block". I have always hated town blocks.

[MathBlade]

If anything they justify a popularity contest in mafia.

[Gamma Emerald]

I do acknowledge that I'm leaving out several variables. I'm centering my argument around just one.

Kingdom Hearst had a strong townbloc and that was a town win.
For Us had a strong townbloc and that was a town sweep. Yet again, that game comprised of players from an older generation for the most part.

Oh yeah
Sexy Brutale had a strong townbloc that wasn't formed till super late game and once that townbloc was formed we took our barings and took back control of the game because scum!Hiraki messed up, outed himself and Wis, and scum!Desperado was just being lame with his posting.

I'm saying that strong townblocs very well should -> town win. I'm saying that when town lose, its often because they didn't have a strong townbloc.

lol I find this fundamentally flawed.

As scum (when I am not sucking craptastically) I can infiltrate blocks rather quickly. Thing Mafia had a "townblock" which I nailed the scum team and was lynched for "attacking the town block". I have always hated town blocks.

This posting is dripping with irony.

[Aronis]

I'd agree with Mathblade about townblocks. They're pretty stupid most of the time imo. Like the light PT was trying to create one Day 3:

A2, GINNGIE, BULBA, QR, CREATURE, 79 CE, TITUS


whats left

TWIE, texcat, dram, Aronis, Vedith, Mathblade

13 players

10v3(7 in town bloc)
8v3(6 in town bloc)
6v3(5 in town bloc)
4v3(4 in town bloc)


so, by the numbers it looks like game is solved

there was more scum in the townblock than out of it

[Creature]

A2 was mostly townread by her role.

[Kelvin Smith]

Congrats to the scum team. I'm quite happy with my decision to retire.

[MathBlade]

A2 was mostly townread by her role.

Which e lied about.

[RadiantCowbells]

No one bothered to take a step back and think, they just acted on first impulse and lost.

[Aronis]

No one bothered to take a step back and think, they just acted on first impulse and lost.

Ummmm hi
I tried

[Aristophanes]

Aronis, Bulba, I was cheering hard for you the last day! It's unfortunate that it took that long for me to support ypu, but I appreciate your efforts!

[Bulbazak]

I've kinda been putting off posting my final thoughts, partly because I haven't really had a lot of time and partly because I'm afraid I'll get a little too aimless. I don't think anyone realizes how close I was to just giving up many times. Scum didn't just discredit me. They beat me down. Worst of all, they isolated me. Night 4 was me railing against boredom. I was starved for good conversation. Ginngie was dead. I distrusted Titus. Ari had promised to talk, and then like the other head of his hydra, he proceeded to give me both middle fingers before never showing up again. In fact, let me get this off my chest.

@Nancy: Do you know how ticked off at you I was every time you whined that no one would talk to you? BECAUSE I TRIED! You changed my mind d1. Did you know that? I had you as a scumread, and you changed my mind. I wanted to talk to you about reads during the night. Remember that? I even asked about your Ginngie read, because I was reavaluating and trying to get a better read there. I tried to talk to you all of d2. But all I got was a "Sure, one moment." before you rolled your eyes and walked away. Every. Single. Time. And on d2, after being put on ignore for so long, I got so frustrated that I blew up at the game and at you and essentially called it quits. And you shrugged and went on complaining. I stopped even trying with you after that point, because I realized how futile it was. And every time you complained, I got so mad at you, because I knew how much of a load of crap that was.

@Ginngie: It was so distressing to me that you townread me, but that you would never fully trust me. You trusted me on my BTD read, but you never trusted me on my Titus read. You didn't trust me to give me time to join you on Nos (Math was right. I would have.). You didn't trust me enough to take a leap of faith on Math, even when you admitted things weren't lining up there. I wanted you so much on that wagon, and it saddened me that you were never willing to go all the way. Do you realize what we could have done if that trust was there from the beginning? We could have had 2 days of consecutive scum lynches and put the scum team on the back foot. But I just needed you to trust me.

And I know there were things I could have done differently. I should have followed my own plan to wait until d2 to fully sort Eddie and not have given into paranoia. I should have pushed harder on d2 to steer the lynch in the direction I wanted it to go after I dismantled the Titus wagon. Maybe BTD wouldn't have happened then. Maybe. I should have trusted my instincts on n3 that things still didn't add up and suggested that we action in silence. But I trusted too much in my town block and ignored that part of my brain. I should have paid more attention to Creature on d4 and have trusted my original read on TWIE. But again, I had no reason to distrust my own result. On d5, I should have listened to that part of me that once again said things weren't adding up. But I got angry at Creature refusing to vote someone that should have been 100% scum from his point of view, and I remembered him refusing to take a stance on previous days, and I thought "Screw it! Don't overthink it. He avoided voting Math. He avoided giving a rock solid stance on TWIE. He's not taking a stance on Quantum, who should be scum from his perspective. It's like he doesn't want to rock the boat and stand out. This looks like scum now." and I voted. (Also, Aronis was backing the scum stance of pushing me since d3, and he was defending Creature. VCA showed Aronis to have been on every single scum counterwagon in the game. It kinda seemed like a lock.).

Most of all, I think this game was the perfect storm of a town full of members who really didn't want to think things through or try, and the very few who did were either killed off, distrusted each other, or were isolated. Scum played it just right here and relied on the simple fact of the town being unable to function. And I hate it. I really do. Because our only chance came down to a handful of players trusting each other and pulling the game, and even then, given this town, that was still unlikely to lead to a win.

[Bulbazak]

Like, we can talk about how much scum were at a disadvantage, but the very existence of the two separate PTs was, by itself, a huge scum advantage, as that was more likely to divide town.

[nancy]

Bulba, I lost a very very dear friend during the nightphase. I'm not sorry that I wasn't around to give you attention because I was grieving and it was only my sense of responsibility to mastina & Ari that I didn't replace out altogether. You were extremely, extremely insensitive during that; you were insensitive later too, consistently for most of the game. And so was I to you in response, and to Titus as well, so I'm sorry for that. Don't really have any desire to talk further with you about it, or about anything else in this game for that matter.

[Bulbazak]

And I'm sorry for that. My concerns at the beginning of that day phase were brought about by paranoia, and I never scumread you for it. I felt anything more would be insincere, and I paid attention to others that followed that line, because it's so easy to do as scum. It's easy for scum to be nice and accommodating, and to be subsequently townread for it. I noticed Math doing just that. As such, I try to keep personal things separate and just focus on the game, regardless if others think that's right or wrong. I can understand you being upset at my insensitivity, but you still were giving me the cold shoulder after that initial bout where I gave you space. You threw down a scum read on me and refused to explain it. You refused to talk to me. I was up against a wall. So you can understand how upset I got whenever you complained about no one talking to you.

This is not to excuse my behavior or to get into an argument with you. The whole point of these posts were to explain how I was feeling during this whole game, and to get some things off my chest. We can just leave it at that, and I wish you all the best. Hopefully, after some time has passed, we can give this a go in another game.

[Bulbazak]

...Okay so I mighta confirmed there's not a Nexus-role which is a passive redirect, but fuck the Nexus role no sane mod would ever use it and I don't feel too terrible having confirmed that.

You know I'm going to have to use this at some point now, right?

[nancy]

I understand that. I appreciate the apology. We did talk reads at certain points; I didn't scumread you after I came back from V/LA and reset, which I explained here; our last genuine interaction I think was when you said you didn't feel like talking because you didn't feel happy about the game, which was fair - but you later forgot this and subsequently blamed me again for not talking when that hadn't been the case. Nothing was pleasant about our interactions from that point forward I don't think; I never intentionally gave you the cold shoulder until after that point + I was fine mentally in the game until Titus hard defended both scum wagons that I was pushing and strongarmed a mislynch and from that point on I basically had no wits for the rest of the game; I ended up scumreading you not for your content but for RL, bad as that is. My meta's moved away from where I was in this game pretty substantially so if we do play again it'll probably be a pretty different experience; think that we have some pretty stark personality differences, though, even if there are definitely similarities that I can spot - I'll try to focus on the similarities.

[Ginngie]

I LOVE YOU BULBA

[Ginngie]

AM SORRY

[Bulbazak]