A Mid-Scummer Night's Dream - D.S. al Fine

[fferyllt]

I would also like to know if my play has improved from where i used to flip out a lot due to scumreads, i mean, they still affect me, as it's obvious they did in this game, even tho i've been trying hard to improve of that, the scars of the past still haunt me and i get anxious just every single time i get scumread or voted, as much as i try to hide it. Tho i think it only showed with NMS, Desp and Drealz.

I thought your play has improved a LOT! I loved the way you played just enough on the back foot through most of day 1 for scum to assume you'd be lynchable. And your paranoia about Nacho not noticing you were hanging back was exactly the sort of paranoia that I would have read as town-Sakura testing Nacho, an I think he probably would have, too.

[Brian Skies]

When scum get a free global roleblock (which kind of BLATANTLY suggests that town power is something other than essentially zero), that's on design.

Also, from what I recall, the ACTUAL town power that was distributed pregame wasn't even affected by the roleblock (albeit not useful, although it probably would've worked out better if this town cared more about coordinating dream votes).

As far as scum not needing to scumhunt PR's, I don't really agree, because you have a mechanic that can essentially hand out more power back to the players and essentially reward good play.

That would be true if the one shots were useful instead of mainly junk. Or if scum didn’t have equivalent odds of getting powers once Sakura died.

I mean shit, man, Sakura dies and scum rands governor and saves scum is an obviously possible outcome (and just TRY to imagine if that happens in LYLO or [preuming mods ban that in MYLO/lylo] brings the game to LYLO/MYLO). Like, we got FAR from the worst rand of it all and it was still blatantly scumsided.

Like, scum governor. Scum vig. Scum bus driver. All realistic outcomes, basically by design.

Totally. But once again, just based on probability, scum start off with what, approximately a 4/17 chance to get the first dream? That's less than 25%. And then, on top of that, they're at the mercy of the reads of Sakura's role.

[mhsmith0]

You have a 1-Shot Watcher, a 1-Shot Vig, a 1-Shot Governor, and a 1-Shot Hider, and you don't think any of these can help turn the game around? Not to mention you don't even have to worry about someone crumbing it on Day 1 and immediately dying to the scumteam like many players on this site?

I also don't understand why any of these roles have to 'carry' the game? Why can't any of them just be good enough to help the town solve the game and win?

MS towns consistently need substantial help to have anything close to even odds. If the standard is “well they shouldn’t need that help”, well, cool, BUT THEY DO. Governor is also pretty blatantly useless most of the time and lol if scum get it.

So a bare handful of “good” dreams actually do anything at all, but towns are supposed to “solve” for those dreams even on nights when all dreams are useless?

By design, a one shot bp and one shot watch, where scum didn’t rand any blatantly useful powers like vig or governor, was substantially MORE town positive than I think you usually see if you run this blind with 100 different groups.

[Brian Skies]

but towns are supposed to “solve” for those dreams even on nights when all dreams are useless?

I 100% think the dreams should've been more explicit (and they were advertised to be spelled out for us to begin with), which you're ignoring for whatever reason because...?

[mhsmith0]

Totally. But once again, just based on probability, scum start off with what, approximately a 4/17 chance to get the first dream? That's less than 25%. And then, on top of that, they're at the mercy of the reads of Sakura's role.

Unless Sakura targets town that gets yolo loverizer or gladiated or something because dreams weren’t understood.

And 25% ish for scum picking up the ONLY remotely useful powers 8n the game is ridiculous.

To say nothing of how the obscured flips enabled useless theorizarion like “scum might be non receptive”, or, for that matter, how it blatantly incentivize role claims since flips would tell town nothing (try and guess my role from my title for instance - it apparently wasn’t even obvious I was dream receptive )

[Sakura Hana]

You know what's even more funny, i almost gave LLD a dream D2! But changed my mind later because i didnt want to interfere with whatever role she had by making her need to choose between her role and the dream, tho i asked later on D3 about how that would've worked. Then later desp had flipped town which changed my view on both LLD/Hebi.

[mhsmith0]

but towns are supposed to “solve” for those dreams even on nights when all dreams are useless?

I 100% think the dreams should've been more explicit (and they were advertised to be spelled out for us to begin with), which you're ignoring for whatever reason because...?

Well I’m discussing what mids actually did for the most part.

But even if dreams were fully public... who cares? The dream powers mainly sucked anyway, and it’s not like accountability for dream voting existed. If ceph’s role was intended to do that, it was always gonna fail at it.

[Brian Skies]

Unless Sakura targets town that gets yolo loverizer or gladiated or something because dreams weren’t understood.

And 25% ish for scum picking up the ONLY remotely useful powers 8n the game is ridiculous.

To say nothing of how the obscured flips enabled useless theorizarion like “scum might be non receptive”, or, for that matter, how it blatantly incentivize role claims since flips would tell town nothing (try and guess my role from my title for instance - it apparently wasn’t even obvious I was dream receptive )

All of this is a literal non-factor to what I'm saying, since my opinions on the setup are based on the idea that town should've had a clearer idea of what each dream did (which was advertised and what I've said in each of my posts).

[mhsmith0]

All of this is a literal non-factor to what I'm saying, since my opinions on the setup are based on the idea that town should've had a clearer idea of what each dream did (which was advertised and what I've said in each of my posts).

25% ish chances for scum to get the dream powers is still ridiculous even given public dream descriptions

And the dream powers still almost all sucked majorly

Take away the roleblock
Take away the lovers nerf to masons
Add two VTs
Announce dreams explicitly

Still scumsided and by a solid margin

[mhsmith0]

Anyway, it’s past 1am and I’m going to bed.

Night all.

[Brian Skies]

But even if dreams were fully public... who cares? The dream powers mainly sucked anyway

I think this is just your opinion, and you're entitled to it.

You think town on this site need a ton of power to have a fighting chance, which is a perfectly acceptable position to hold.

I disagree, but it's not like I'm going to sit here and tell the mods to make games harder for town when I roll town like 90+% of the time.

[mastina]

According to VCA i was scum to mastina

I never pushed this. I had you in my scum pool as a secondary name (never my strongest) and I did do VCA but I am quite positive I never pushed you specifically because of VCA.

[Sakura Hana]

Eh, well whatevers regrets is regrets, they wont change the outcome but...
the thing with us not lynching LLD Day 4 was pretty bad in hindsight, as an LLD scumflip would immediately mean a Hebi lynch, which in XyLo would have lost us the game anyway, it was already too late before i replaced out.

I also didnt intend my replace out to be alignment indicative, as it was, well tied to stuff that happened outside of the game, as i wasnt sure how long it would take to finish the game nor how long it would take for me to recover from my depression and it didnt seem to be improving, i thought it was better off for me to replace out, however someone i think it was serra managed to townread my replace out simple out of the sheer fact that if i was scum i wouldnt have replaced out when so close to a win, which is true, but it's not something i intended.

[Sakura Hana]

According to VCA i was scum to mastina

I never pushed this. I had you in my scum pool as a secondary name (never my strongest) and I did do VCA but I am quite positive I never pushed you specifically because of VCA.

Yeah well that's how i was seeing it, tho as mentioned previously i probably was overreacting due to my thing where i get tilted easily by scumreads, you being a wall to syry coz they were a scumread didnt help me either coz i figured you'd be a wall to me too and it just made me more annoyed.

[Sakura Hana]

Regardless i dont think VCA helped any.
I think NKA would have helped more, but i got attacked as soon as i tried by your hydra partner.

I've felt for a long time that the voices of the dead shouldnt be ignored ever, but people still do it anyway, and scumread or ignore people that do.

[Sakura Hana]

Maybe that's another thing i need to improve on, I tend to not do anything that could remotely point towards people scumreading me, because i actually care a lot about it, i have terrible memories of a single player scumreading me leading to everyone wanting to lynch me. That's probably why i tend to back off on anything I do that makes people start scumreading me, probably.

I guess that also added up to the pressure of my role. This definitely wasnt the best game for me to be in, there was also a time much earlier that i just felt like ranting and wanted to take a break.

[Sakura Hana]

Ah well if i keep thinking about that im just gonna get depressed again for an entirely different reason.

I'm just gonna go to sleep as it's already 3:30 am.

[Floodgates]

Fwiw I agree with smith pretty much all the way

Aside from RC I don't think there's anyone I trust more to have a solid take on balance than smith and that's trust that's been earned through working together fairly extensively. He's got "it".

[JaeReed]

Quick feedback aside from all the balance concerns & dream vagueness which I feel have been hashed out to death by now.

I probably wouldn't have explicitly said that the assignation of the dream was random if it weren't (Sakura getting to choose where the dream goes by design means it's no longer random). Going forward if you'd have a role like that I'd have the "randomly" to be taken out because it's misleading. Just "A player will receive a one-shot ability." is fine in that case, it leaves it open to it being RNG or role based and is closer to the truth, if that makes sense? I assume that was a carry over from before Sakura's role was made, though.

[Cabd]

12. Dreams may also grant power roles to players. Unless specified, these may be held onto or used the same night. Dream recipients are chosen randomly

unless an ability states otherwise.

It was in the OP at game's start.

[JaeReed]

My point was about it being in the dream flips.
I don't really have the spoons to explain further it's just like, not necessary to have in the dream flips especially if it's in the ruleset, it really only serves to mislead.

[Sakura Hana]

Nightmare PT (Will be made public in 24 hours or so)

Hopefully soon?

[morph the cat]

done.

[Sakura Hana]

And with that, im done here, not gonna play mafia again until im feeling emotionally better anyhow.

[Sakura Hana]

Oh yeah, when i was reading dead PT, something i was wondering, but i dont recall having 100% read rate on Nos.