The Mod Is Mafia (Game Over)

[Creature]

Multiball games don't have balance at all.

[RadiantCowbells]

Multiball games can be balanced but in practise both multiball and serial killer games strongly favour, as either alignment, being someone that people wouldn't want to shoot.

[mhsmith0]

Scum also had a lot of space to claim here.

Also, I am not saying this game was scumsided, but I refuse to say this game was notably townsided.

Without mastina being able to take the shot (and "survive" any/all vig shots), the game is ridiculously townsided

With that, but without mastina picking the scum team, the game is townsided but not unplayable (the "mod edit" stuff favors scum a bit because it's likely to be frustrating to town but probably not a major adjustment to balance)

With setup as is AND mastina picking the scum team in secret, the game seems... acceptable balance-wise? I'd probably want to think about it in more detail but that doesn't scream out drastically favoring one side or the other, since getting to make sure that your scum team doens't suck and/or have clear weak links is a substantial advantage in and of itself.

[mhsmith0]

Scum also had a lot of space to claim here.

Unless mastina provided scum with guidance on what fake claims could fit in the setup, I tend to disagree. Eyeballing wolf chat, it seems like she'd write out a fake claim, but not actually tell them what would or wouldn't work.

And town power set to five overall solid PRs seems to not really give a lot of room for fake claiming.

[Creature]

Yeah, mastina not being able to shoot would make the game townsided if scum got down to one.

[RadiantCowbells]

The scumteam thing is also very contingent on who is in the game. I think in a lot of lobbies it would add up to very low value.

[mhsmith0]

I think in a lot of groupings there's still a pretty solid range between "best scum" and "worst scum" even if, on a lower level group, it's more "adequate scum vs painfully obvious scum" as compared to "adequate scum vs very effective scum"

[Mulch]

The scumteam thing is also very contingent on who is in the game. I think in a lot of lobbies it would add up to very low value.

Nah

[Prism]

Mulch missing the point entirely, obsessing over me/RC and drawing overarching conclusions from a sample size of 1. I called that months in advance.

I don't really have much to say about this game, I was miserable throughout, never really wanted to play and put in close to 0 effort beyond coaching Keychain. When I was around, I was only around to complain. I'm sorry for the scumteam for that. They killed it and won it despite me, but they deserved better.

What’s the “point” ?

From my/Key's hydra thread:

I think everyone can be excellent if they really tried to work at selfimprovement.

Mulch's biggest problem is his ego. He immediately deathtunneled the two most well-renowned scum players in the game and handed out other reads like candy, ex. the hard townread on camn. I don't think those were accidents; he's noticeably focused less on winning the game and more on winning

himself

, moral victory or not. "Can't blame me for scumreading them, they're good scum" vs. "I NAILED THEM I TOLD YOU I AM GOD WHY DIDN'T YOU LISTEN" cost-benefit analysis type deal. I don't think that's fueled so much out of a cognizant analysis but rather just how powerfully he

wants

us to be scum and to be right.

The same attitude, protecting his own reputation over trying to win, is what made me lynch him in Dystopia.

Expounding on this, the determination to tunnel me/RC resulted in mismatch that was easy to take advantage of-you didn't have the evidence or the reasoning to back up the strength of your read, and I knew it, and this made for a really easy 1v1. Those who read the entire argument wound up agreeing with me, and you were an easy lynch for it. This was a 1v1 in which you

should have had the advantage

, because you were town and genuine. Everyone has their own biases, that doesn't mean you weren't town-but you let me completely take advantage of it and dominate the conversation. You finally did get something of note-I slipped up a bit with my internal interactions with Keychain-but by that point you had basically already sunk yourself by crying wolf too many times.

You don't care about any of this though, you just wanted to be right and claim your moral victory at the end of the day, and didn't care too much about just winning the game. Who cares if me/RC took advantage of me to demoralize the town, establish a dominant position, and get a free mislynch? It's other people's fault, not mine, I told them the two scum, I just couldn't tell them why! In contrast, the scumteam repeatedly gave up attempts at personal glory (see: MathBlade originally wanting to bus into a glorious 3 way victory) and just took the win in front of them.

Setting aside the win in order to feel superior to your teammates is what losers do.

As for sample size of 1, I think you wanted to scumread me/RC so much you would have done it had we been town. This isn't skill, but essentially an RNG with what we flip that game. You will disagree, naturally. I don't think this is worth arguing. I'll believe you can read me when I see it.

[Mulch]

I see you are still making excuses for your massive fuck up in the newbie game despite self proclaiming that you didn’t care

I’ll respond to the rest of your post later but I think your attitude in this can pretty much be summed up by this

[Ginngie]

I see you are still making excuses for your massive fuck up in the newbie game despite self proclaiming that you didn’t care

I’ll respond to the rest of your post later but I think your attitude in this can pretty much be summed up by this

2. Mulch, Vanilla Townie, was Lynched D1.

lol

[RadiantCowbells]

As for sample size of 1, I think you wanted to scumread me/RC so much you would have done it had we been town. This isn't skill, but essentially an RNG with what we flip that game. You will disagree, naturally. I don't think this is worth arguing. I'll believe you can read me when I see it.

I'm not taking a position on mulch vs prism but I absolutely think that you are in a stage where you're going to scumread me every game, play it off when I'm town, and lord it over everyone when you're right even if it doesn't help you get me lynched because everyone just finished seeing you scumread me like crazy in the previous game when I was town.

[Mulch]

I see you are still making excuses for your massive fuck up in the newbie game despite self proclaiming that you didn’t care

I’ll respond to the rest of your post later but I think your attitude in this can pretty much be summed up by this

2. Mulch, Vanilla Townie, was Lynched D1.

lol

I never said I was a good player

[Prism]

An explanation for why I did something is not an excuse. I already took blame for that game 100x over. Any loss of mine is my own fault, period, no way around it. You will not find a single post otherwise in my entire time on the site. This is the difference between us.

Spoiler: From the end of Dystopia

I already accepted blame for the game, repeatedly, elaborated exactly how and why I voted what I did (see: not because of the AtE), explained what I thought I did wrong, should have paid more attention to, and what was just downright awful (Kam lynch)

If you have anything constructive to say I'll gladly hear it but to be blunt I don't care about you stroking your own ego. I tried my absolute best, and that's all I have to do and all I could do-I don't owe you anything.

This thread isn't a place to talk about the Newbie Game. I didn't even bring it up. I didn't care about your ego stroking then and I really don't now, either.

The point is that your determination to feel superior to others, by valuing personal victories over that of the team, and always looking to take credit for the victories while absolving yourself of blame, is counterproductive and getting in the way of you being a better player. You feel attacked, and rightfully so, the disrespect I've shown you this game (particularly in the scum topic) was ridiculous. I didn't have to be so hostile with my criticism. I'll apologize for that.

Take away from this game absolutely nothing if you want, though. Keep absolving yourself of responsibility. Refuse to learn how or why scum beat you and used you to their own advantage. Let people like me and RC do it to you again, and again, and again, if you really want.

[Mulch]

I take full responsibility

And I know why you beat me


But I should save this for when I have time to make a proper response

[Prism]

Reflecting more it looks like you made a conscious effort to just accept the lynch rather than get angry. I guess I just can't really understand that, in the sense that it still seems to me like at some point you just said "I'm happy with my two scumreads and I'm going home". I guess that's not absolving yourself of responsibility, just kind of giving up. I can't really say I did much better this game attitude wise so I can't really comment on that.

[camn]

I never said I was a good player

I did. Read the scumchat.
You have great instincts....you are just a NEW(ish) player. You still let Cowbells get under your skin, ffs!

There is one thing he can teach you though......bathe in the blood of your enemies. DANCE ON THIER FUCKING GRAVES!
Don't self vote.
Don't get down on yourself.
KILL EVERYONE!

This game is about murder, not logic

[Ellibereth]

CAMN THAT REP OUT WHEN MULCH AND I WERE A HYDRA WAS STILL

[mhsmith0]

CAMN THAT REP OUT WHEN MULCH AND I WERE A HYDRA WAS STILL

more like, was still awesome

nancy being like "oh yeah once I got around to reading smith critically instead of just tone skimming i realized he was a wolf" made me VERY happy she was out of the game

[nancy]

[Smocaine]

Ugh and Bulba you were right it was totally fake me bussing Radiant.

Was going through RL shit and Radiant was strongly suggesting things the exact opposite of how I play as scum.

And as scum sometimes I bus sometimes I don’t.

With this and Night and Day, any time I see you go down as scum from now on, I'm looking for buddies bussing you.

I've never seen someone as bad as Smocaine was this game, literally mislynched every person at full confidence, (got mislynched themselves?), and then has the audacity to act like an ass postgame

And this is why I said Smocaine's alignment was uncertain in Surreptitious. I was sitting in the spoiled PT watching him continually tank, so when he replaced in S2, "could be that bad" was a legit option. I just couldn't say why because a.) this game was ongoing and b.) he was still alive. I'm sorry if it came off as insulting, but this game told me not to put any weight to anything Smocaine said.

Who tf r u??

[Alisae]

Ugh and Bulba you were right it was totally fake me bussing Radiant.

Was going through RL shit and Radiant was strongly suggesting things the exact opposite of how I play as scum.

And as scum sometimes I bus sometimes I don’t.

With this and Night and Day, any time I see you go down as scum from now on, I'm looking for buddies bussing you.

I've never seen someone as bad as Smocaine was this game, literally mislynched every person at full confidence, (got mislynched themselves?), and then has the audacity to act like an ass postgame

And this is why I said Smocaine's alignment was uncertain in Surreptitious. I was sitting in the spoiled PT watching him continually tank, so when he replaced in S2, "could be that bad" was a legit option. I just couldn't say why because a.) this game was ongoing and b.) he was still alive. I'm sorry if it came off as insulting, but this game told me not to put any weight to anything Smocaine said.

Who tf r u??

rekt

[Alisae]

What might be viable is for me to CO-mod a game.

Spoiler:

ur mine

[RadiantCowbells]

Can we not berate people when no one besides Cheeky has any claim to have played well this game as town?

[camn]

CAMN THAT REP OUT WHEN MULCH AND I WERE A HYDRA WAS STILL

That game was a little fast and large for me. I am not on computers every day unless I try.